a spike lee joint

admittedly only seen about half, but voted Bamboozled in a heartbeat anyway.

1. Malcolm X
2. Jungle Fever
3. Clockers
4. He Got Game
5. Do the Right Thing or Mo' Better Blues

Do the Right Thing will obviously win, and obviously I think he went on to make better films. First two, I love without reservation. I should see Crooklyn again. I thought Summer of Sam was the first bad film he made, and after that, I haven't liked much of anything until BlacKkKlansman (big qualifier: still haven't gotten around to watching the documentaries). You sure there wasn't an earlier poll (maybe without his name in the thread title)?

Talking dogs aside, I really like Summer of Sam

He Got Game is the one I'm most likely to finish if I catch it on cable...so that one. Spike's overheated approach somehow really clicks with an oedipal drama scored to aaron copland.

I was really hyped for Summer of Sam at the time, it just seemed overwrought to me (and also strangely uninformed about what punks were listening to in 1978--not the Who, I don't think). As with so many films I never went back to, I should give it another go.

Those Copland opening credits are beautiful.

admittedly only seen about half, but voted Bamboozled in a heartbeat anyway.

― wayne trotsky (Simon H.)

me too

so much garbage, one legit GOAT in American cinema entry (imo), a handful of well-done and moving pieces. I would think the winner is a foregone conclusion but idk.

surprised at Clemenza repping hard for Jungle Fever I mean come on that ending is SO BAD

The winner is indeed a foregone conclusion. I hope Malcolm X finishes a strong second (and would be perplexed if it's 25th Hour, acclaim for which mystifies me).

We'll have to disagree on that ending. In the context of what was going on at that time, I find it dramatic and moving. (Ditto the highly stylized ending of Malcolm X, which I think took some criticism too.)

By my iffy count I've seen 14 of these, and nothing between Inside Man and Chi-Raq....

except this TV adap of Stew's stage musical Passing Strange, which you left out, and is one of my favorite things he's done. It's not really "his" but there was also a rumored "real film" version in the works once, which I assume fell through for typical reasons.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3962302/

25th Hour is perhaps a post 9/11 or early 2000s time capsule--I haven't revisited it but I was really moved by it at the time.

Spike's virtues and flaws both derive from the same qualities so I can always forgive his fuck ups and I will always see what he's up to.

I don't usually advocate for removing obvious frontrunners from the running in the outset, but ... I'd really like to know what everyone's second-favorite Spike Lee movie is.

By my iffy count I've seen 14 of these, and nothing between Inside Man and Chi-Raq....

me neither. besides Inside Man, the only one I can even recall coming out between 25th Hour and Chi-Raq is She Hate Me, which I remember bombed & people (critics) loathed.

xp In my case, any of the following qualify for second-best:

School Daze (1988)
Jungle Fever (1991)
Crooklyn (1994)
4 Little Girls (1997)
Summer of Sam (1999)
25th Hour (2002)

I admit, I haven't caught up with When the Levees Broke, Chi-Raq or BlacKkKlansman.

And I have seen both Miracle at St. Anna and Oldboy so my priorities have clearly been misplaced these last dozen years.

I saw everything up to and including Get on the Bus, and then I got off the bus (so I missed his first documentary, which is supposed to be good). I count 16 that I've seen.

The film is pretty bad but I've always loved this jam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZbprgd2Rus

Between 25th Hour, Chi-raq and the obvious poll winner for me (I ended up going with the former). I get why Malcolm X is Great, but it still feels a bit too much comfortably epic for my tastes--I like it well enough, which itself is an accomplishment as biopics are generally a very hard sell for me. I'm not crazy about his first two; Chi-raq did a lot of what School Daze was attempting, only much more successfully, I think (though it does have that great "Da Butt" sequence). Jungle Fever, Crooklyn and Summer of Sam all need rewatches, though I remember having some of the same complaints about the latter that clemenza did. Bamboozled is a fascinating failure. Miracle at St. Anna is an embarrassing one.

i was relatively unimpressed with Malcolm X in '92, but i'll give it another look soon.

I think Oldboy will win this.

Bamboozled is a fascinating failure

otm

why is it a failure?

Until Oldboy, Malcolm X was the only "failure" in his filmography for me, in that it was a movie that could as easily have been someone else's and I would've never known the difference.

Will likely vote Four Little Girls. That and When The Levees Broke are up there with his best work, for me.

xxpost

My main problem with Bamboozled is the Dogme-style camerawork, which is ugly enough to be genuinely distracting. The film only works for me when it sticks with the minstrel sequences.

"Do The Right Thing". Talk about a time capsule of hot Tri-State summers of yore that also holds it down as a bona fide classic. He's made other good films (and a shit ton of terrible ones ) but I don't think he's ever topped it.

Loved "Chi-Raq", though. And "Miracle At St. Anna" is one of the most wooden WWII films I've ever seen.

4 Little Girls I watched for the first time last weekend, was in tears by the end. He lets these wonderful men and women speak at length in full paragraphs.

1. Do the Right Thing
2. Clockers
3. Malcom X
4. She’s Gotta Have It
5. He Got Game
6. 25th Hour
7. 4 Little Girls
8. Inside Man
9. School Daze
10. Mo’ Better Blues
11. Chi-raq
12. Crooklyn
13. Jungle Fever

I just realized I haven't seen any of his docs. 4 Little Girls sounds essential; what about the others?

Talking dogs aside, I really like Summer of Sam

the talking dog is the best part of Summer of Sam

Clockers was one of those films I remember coming out in the fall of '95 as part of what seemed to be a *lot* of interesting/ambitious movies being released around that time, or ones that at the very least were interesting/amibitious failures (Kids, The Usual Suspects, Seven, To Die For, Strange Days, Get Shorty, Dead Presidents, Leaving Las Vegas, The Doom Generation, Casino, White Man's Burden, Heat, Nixon, Dead Man Walking, 12 Monkeys.) Clockers was one of the ones that was seriously overlooked and underrated, and still is to this day even though it's basically a proto-"Wire." Not sure I'd vote for it, but I might agree w/Alfred's 1-2 and also the high ranking for He Got Game (solid RICK FOX performance!)

well, Clockers is a "proto-Wire" in that Richard Price ripped himself off a few times while writing for the series. Visually, it's the complete antithesis of the TV show - and not to its credit

Kids, The Usual Suspects, Seven, To Die For, Strange Days, Get Shorty, Dead Presidents, Leaving Las Vegas, The Doom Generation, Casino, White Man's Burden, Heat, Nixon, Dead Man Walking, 12 Monkeys.

oy this is a lot of failures!

I think I would rep for... two of those movies (Casino and maybe Nixon or 12 Monkeys)

I love what Korine brought to Kids but basically totally hate what Larry Clark did with it

There was chatter about Delroy Lindo getting an Oscar nom but lol

Get Shorty and 12 Monkeys were huge box office hits and sound entertainments fwiw

Get Shorty is extremely lightweight entertainment, in a good way. Lots of good supporting roles in there, I think that was the first film I saw Gandolfini in after True Romance and it was impressive to see him turn his brute force into something kinder.

also contains one of the great Farina/Los Angeles quotes: "They say the fucking smog is the fucking reason you have such beautiful fucking sunsets."

in what universe is Heat a failure

The one where michael mann is actually a tiresome bore and not a genius auteur

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--wKuV-I7Q--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/dbup0syj7iqohgak08eh.jpg

re: Bamboozled

xxpost

My main problem with Bamboozled is the Dogme-style camerawork, which is ugly enough to be genuinely distracting. The film only works for me when it sticks with the minstrel sequences.

― Police, Academy (cryptosicko)

I get this, but it's something I love about the movie. Though I understand how it could be distracting - not to mention the fact that it's out of print and pretty hard to find (the DVD I have looks like dog shit). It just needs a good restoration - I saw Asia Argento's Scarlet Diva last month at a revival and was completely blown away. Besides being a great movie, the restoration looks fantastic. Also released in 2000, also shot on miniDV, also dealing with inside showbiz/Hollywood stuff that no one in the industry wants to touch, which is why Bamboozled has been buried.

Besides that I mean come on... Pierre de la Croix? One of Spike Lee's best characters imo. Michael Rapaport is hilarious in it. JPS is great, too. and that ending montage! brilliant. but I get why it's divisive.

Thought Delroy Lindo should have gotten a nomination for Malcolm X. Sam Jackson not getting one for Jungle Fever was a sham of a mockery etc. (he won in New York).

Lee was outspoken against the Academy in the early 90s and they punished his films in retaliation. Coming from any other director in 1992, Malcolm X would have been a multiple nominee/winner.

i chuckle w/ only the smallest bit of guilt at Armond White calling DtRT "Spike Lee's good movie."

(xpost) You're right--Denzel and costume design (for the early Harlem scenes, presumably), and that's it. I just assumed it would have been up for picture, director, and adapted screenplay, too, but no.

wd've preferred Larry Fishburne in the role tbqh

It woulda worked too

I can totally see that resulting in a better film

How so with Lee as same director?

Denzel is an oleaginous screen presence incapable of communicating inter-human empathy; Fishburne is very good at portraying listening.

(I haven't seen Malcolm X, Inside Man is the only Denzel film I've ever liked. (Also haven't seen He Got Game.))

I've seen way too little of his work, but I did catch Da Sweet Blood of Jesus at a film festival, and it's worth a look. It could very well be seen as a turning point some day, it's a b-movie, a remake, extremely cheap and partly funded by kickstarter, but the mood is beautifully melancholic. It showed he still had it. And then he made a couple of his biggest hits.

Inside Man as it's the one that I have seen multiple times. Clive Owen is cool, plus Ziggy!! , Kim Director is hot in it as is the blue eyed bank robber. Denzel the worst thing here and I really hate the scene where his partner is all "can I see your shoe?".

Oh, and Jodie Foster is good and surprisingly ( to me anyway) sexy in this.

Bamboozled without a doubt. Amazing, crazy, haunting.

(She's Gotta Have It would be number 2 choice for sheer joie de vivre)

Been said many times upthread, but the disrespect for his work in the film establishment is exasperating, even disgusting when compared to the attention given to Crash, Mississippi Burning, The Help, etc. The "joke" about him on The Simpsons is for me their shark jump moment, never felt positive about the show after that.

Or actually rereading hasn't been said that much. But anyway...

If I think about Laurence Fishburne in Boyz n the Hood, I can see where he'd make a good Malcolm X. (And if I block out the Matrix films, where, by the third one, he'd descended to something approaching camp.)

I think Denzel is amazing. Besides his box-office pull (I think he already had that by '92--not sure), there was probably an element of stunt-casting involved because he looks and sounds so much like Malcolm X. But he went way past that. That scene where he's stumping in Harlem outside the African National Memorial Bookstore, and Lee slowly tracks in before cutting to a close-up on the words "a black man," that gives me a chill every time.

rewatched 25th Hour for the first time in years tonight, didn't remember how bad & corny the score is. makes a really good film significantly worse. still some transcendent moments (parts of Monty talking to himself in the mirror montage and the NYC bits of the fantasy sequence at the end).

From what I recall, those were the only two transcendent moments. I mean, they were enough in the moment, but.

yea

Spike Lee went on Charlie Rose so many times, at least half a dozen appearances in as many years. They must've bonded court side, a lot of these interviews just end up with them talking/arguing about the Knicks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svj_je9oQbY

I loved 25th Hour at the time, even with the stuff like the Twin Tower lights in the window of that one guy's apartment and Anna Paquin's terrible acting but I don't think I'd watch it again and ruin the memory.

he got game is the one

some amazing moments from He Got Game:

-Jake opening and closing the door in his hotel room as soon as the parole officers leave
-Jake and Dakota "We have all night"
-everything on the roller coaster
-the final game
-the ball flying in clear blue sky

bofh of em, bofh of em

"I win, you're out of my life for good?"
"That's right."
...
"Bet."

that game, oof

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Bamboozled as the default "best Spike Lee that isn't Do the Right Thing."

Not bad! Glad so many movies got at least a vote. And yes, these are basically the correct results.

Bamboozled is due for a rerelease / reappraisal. More relevant than ever.

School Daze... there's a decent 81 minute movie in there, but good lord, two hours? It doesn't feel like a movie, just raw material, some of which is great. I realize it's only his second movie, but's a) stunning that he made this only a year before Do the Right Thing, and b) his primary weaknesses thru his career - pacing & editing & discontinuity - are really exaggerated.

watching CLOCKERS (1995) which i thought i'd seen (maybe cz i read the book) but i'm now thinking didn't

so far (only ten mins in) struck by how it layers languorous autumnal crooklynesque soul into broken projects ugliness (= the sequence of gun-murdered bodies in the opening credits)

the book sent my perhaps unimaginative mind's eye to a much sparer concreted-up lanndscape tbh

Underrated, I think, although Keitel and Turturro's casual banter at the crime scene seems a little forced. Delroy Lindo and Mekhi Phifer are excellent, and the rest of the time Keitel is too.

Thought Clockers suffered from a familiar problem for him, half an hour too long, too many unresolved plot strains that don't really gel. Some great elements (the performances), just felt incongruous, like Jungle Fever or School Daze or She Hate Me.

Clockers was one of those films I remember coming out in the fall of '95 as part of what seemed to be a *lot* of interesting/ambitious movies being released around that time, --->>>or<<<--- ones that at the very least were interesting/amibitious failures (Kids, The Usual Suspects, Seven, To Die For, Strange Days, Get Shorty, Dead Presidents, Leaving Las Vegas, The Doom Generation, Casino, White Man's Burden, Heat, Nixon, Dead Man Walking, 12 Monkeys.) Clockers was one of the ones that was seriously overlooked and underrated, and still is to this day even though it's basically a proto-"Wire." Not sure I'd vote for it, but I might agree w/Alfred's 1-2 and also the high ranking for He Got Game (solid RICK FOX performance!)

― omar little, Wednesday, August 29, 2018 3:00 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

Kids, The Usual Suspects, Seven, To Die For, Strange Days, Get Shorty, Dead Presidents, Leaving Las Vegas, The Doom Generation, Casino, White Man's Burden, Heat, Nixon, Dead Man Walking, 12 Monkeys.

oy this is a lot of failures!

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, August 29, 2018 3:11 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

Get Shorty and 12 Monkeys were huge box office hits and sound entertainments fwiw

― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, August 29, 2018 3:21 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

in what universe is Heat a failure

― flappy bird, Wednesday, August 29, 2018 5:14 PM (one year ago) bookmarkflaglink

sorry just to belatedly clarify there's an "or" in there

anyway Clockers is flawed but it's more overstuffed than it is inept. There's a palpable kind of anger at the criminals, even some fairly justified anger at our central character, while it retains a lot of empathy for him. more than another film might give him. most of the performances are very good or often completely exceptional (Keitel was still operating at his '90s peak level here, a time when he was able to even make City of Industry watchable whenever he was onscreen).

so far (45 mins in) i think it's better than anything on that list that i've seen (not seen = dead pres, doom gen, white mb)!

and also that keitel feels more like he's doing keitel shtick than anyone else feels like they're doing shtick :\ which is not bad obv but doesn;t quite give the cops enough grip to push things on?

Clockers, on my last viewing, generates a sense of dread almost as palpable as DTRT did.

not inept, definitely overstuffed, this is his main problem. overstuffing leaves seams showing. Lindo & Phifer are great but I thought Keitel was sort of phoning it in. then again it's hard to watch him as a detective in anything other than Bad Timing.

as ever with spike i love the colour and in this case also the softly grainy texture

he doesn't find a way to film the trainset stuff that works really

(are there any films with trainsets where the trainset bits are good not bad? track 29 is terrible iirc)

does Sopranos count

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Crk89BHnN3Q/hqdefault.jpg

The Fury (wish I could find the clip online).

Tom n Jerry suck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4WlJHBVw70

The Fury (wish I could find the clip online).

watched this within the past year but drawing a blank on what yr referring to

The scene where Amy Irving is powering the train mentally and it flies off the track...you can catch a glimpse around 40 seconds in this trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bphHHR2aVM0

http://www.midnightonly.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/The-Fury-6.jpg

miniature thread derail

Addams Family has a good trainset bit

me rn in the spike lee thread

pic.twitter.com/8XICVX3yMP

— Perfectly Cut Screams (@AAAAAGGHHHH) January 17, 2020

Took me five minutes to get the derail joke (duh)...Just to keep it going, forgot that in Big Little Lies, Laura Dern's husband obsesses over his train set at a point in their lives where they're going bankrupt, which thoroughly infuriates and exasperates her.

http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5d2e1b4fefb55400084dd864/master/w_2560%2Cc_limit/Jeffrey-Nordling-Big-Little-Lies.jpg

I think he's convinced they're not really bankrupt because his train set is so valuable.

anyway aside from tiny trains, dread and anger the main constituent element is deep slow sadness

Tom n Jerry suck

I love you Shakey, but get out of here with this nonsense.

NEVER!

(are there any films with trainsets where the trainset bits are good not bad? track 29 is terrible iirc)

https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-20-2015/w7ounj.gif

wow I completely forgot about his train thing. yeah, that along with the strawberry milk, just incongruous elements that really stick out

the strawberry milk is the one big thing i remember from the book -- everyone around strike treats as a bit of a joke, his bit that he commits to, but it's actually how he's nursing the severe bleeding ulcer that hospitalises him (it's the only thing he can eat that makes it hurt less). i remember it well i suspect bcz i *hate* strawberry milkshakes, in fact any milkshakes, so this struck me as a double grim chore (horrible self-medication of horrible condition)

in retrospect i'm not sure how well all the above is conveyed in the film -- i knew it from the book so it didn't need conveying. in the book also part of the sadness is that there's no space in this set-up for someone like who strike "really" is: he has to be a junior gangster bcz what option is there? but he's actually more of a dreamy oddball who in a less pressured world wd be allowed to flourish in very difft directions (which i think the train stuff is kind of signalling, except i'm still unconvinced trainsets can be fitted into most directors' filmable aesthetics -- outside maybe cartoons that can play games with size and speed)

(not sure i ever saw that sopranos ep, the stills don't convince the idea being is pulled off)

I haven’t seen the film but strawberry YooHoo(?) is the first thing I think of when I think of the book yeah

I also think about it a lot wrt my own stomach pain issues

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Ako6ouR3Y

there are some earlier scenes with it too including the one this is taken from lol

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd3gqasl9vmjfd8.cloudfront.net%2Fbf74a509-c736-4383-8bd5-28c553a6e652.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

A couple of Zoomcasts my friend and I did on the music in two Spike Lee films:

Jungle Fever: www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUt4OfYeybM
BlacKkKlansman: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZa2UW9_vVs

The second goes back a few months, but I'll post them both.

i feel like this might not hold up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiYKdK46L5s

the parts that don't hold up are what sunk it in 2004 (I'm assuming): the bizarre Enron style subplot? First of all, no sex comedy should be 140 minutes. he gets SO didactic here especially towards the end. he appears incapable of making a 90 minute movie, which is unfortunate, because his eyes are usually bigger than his stomach. the sex comedy parts are the "best" in this iirc. For sure some casual homophobia typical of the time, again, iirc

We talked about the music in a mix of films here: Malcolm X, The Social Network, McCabe & Mrs. Miller, Our Nixon, and St. Vincent. Malcolm X is my favourite, so I'll post here.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JPO5DH_ZGE