The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power series

Well here we go:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=176060&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2316587

Key paragraphs:

Amazon today announced it has acquired the global television rights to The Lord of the Rings, based on the celebrated fantasy novels by J.R.R. Tolkien, with a multi-season commitment. The upcoming Amazon Prime Original will be produced by Amazon Studios in cooperation with the Tolkien Estate and Trust, HarperCollins and New Line Cinema, a division of Warner Bros. Entertainment....

Set in Middle Earth, the television adaptation will explore new storylines preceding J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Fellowship of the Ring. The deal includes a potential additional spin-off series.

I nominate dmac as director.

I hope it's an expanded adaptation of The Hobbit. Feel like there was a lot of underexplored threads in Jackson's sadly abbreviated version.

Raggett so help me

I care for your employment prospects.

Anyway:

Amazon should make a sexy murder-mystery series about the elves and call it RIVENDELL

— Dave Itzkoff (@ditzkoff) November 13, 2017

Will they finally find neeson a role is what I want to know

it's all sean bean this time, sorry

Liam Neeson as Bombadil, you know it.

Be great if this was all a scam and a cover to be nothing but Tom Bombadil. Seven seasons of it.

Neeson would make a pretty solid Theoden, maybe.

"What did we actually get the rights TO?!"

"...a couple of poems?"

Goldberry taken by orcs

Neeson now too old for aragorn or boromir it surely too young yet for theoden

A neeson wizard now what would that look like I wonder

bombadil will at last get his futterwacken

By christ I try not to fp posters I like but

Neeson is i think the right age for Theoden, he's a solid 10 years older than Bernard Hill was when he filmed his role. though Neeson doesn't look it. i think if you beard him up he'd look the part.

Literally over the hill

And at least twice as big as an underhill

either way this time around my request is they should lean a bit more on the spectral and ghostly and terrifying side of the Nazgul and less the screaming power metal side.

And galadriel not to be a Halloween witch pls

"new storylines preceding J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Fellowship of the Ring" is incredibly fucking vague.

Oh I think it lets you know exactly what we are in for.

Especially considering how they......"improved"....the hobbit

and featuring James Corden as Radagast the Brown

i've actually never read any of the posthumous ephemera other than The Silmarillion (which rules so hard)...

Pretty sure this will have more boobs in than PJ's version.

I want to see the Snoke = Bombadil chronicles imo

https://km-515.livejournal.com/1042.html

LotR isn't nearly horny enough source material for prestige tv, they'll have to work on that a bit

it is perhaps the least horny literature

they paid $250m for this o_O

If New Line Cinema's involved, does that mean that this is an extension of the Jackson movies?

it is perhaps the least horny literature

Don't worry, the fans have filled the gaps.

If New Line Cinema's involved, does that mean that this is an extension of the Jackson movies?

The exact nature of what's happening remains kinda maddeningly unclear. The two key factors:

1) As noted, to what extent is this an extension of the Jackson movie interpretations, with associated backstory (not always Tolkien's).

2) What is the estate's involvement, and what rights in question have been sold to what texts?

The fact that Saul Zaentz's Tolkien Enterprises setup isn't mentioned at all is telling, but I'm not sure of the exact implications.

Boromir often had the horn iirc

this is a very silly idea. the answer to making an LOTR series is certainly not to make it more "adult" in language or sexual content. If they want to make it more like GOT, why not zoom back 1000 years and focus on the wars between the men and Nazgul, focusing on the rise of the Witch King and the Fall of Arnor or something. That could be cool.

What isn't cool: hobbit sex.

they haven't specifically said they're making it more adult tbf

and I'm not sure the Tolkien estate would sign off on something like that

S3, EP2:

Sam has an honest talk with Gollum. Eowyn has a realization about Aragorn. Theoden makes a fateful decision. Merry and Pippin travel south with a new friend.

"The One With the Mathoms"

What isn't cool: hobbit sex.

You say that, but did you know that hobbit women all have thick hair on the top of their breasts? Changes everything.

they haven't specifically said they're making it more adult tbf

― Number None, Monday, November 13, 2017 5:18 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and I'm not sure the Tolkien estate would sign off on something like that

― Number None, Monday, November 13, 2017 5:23 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

There was a report a few weeks back that they were going to take a darker, more thrones-like take on the subject matter, but it seems like they are going to go in a different direction.

The goofy happy clown direction.

the elves are immortal so they've all gotten tired of fucking already. they're over it

https://78.media.tumblr.com/2d0ef4d6fd1d28753baa0883b61bb800/tumblr_inline_ngfx0xABE61szmjhd.gif

"When there's a whip there's a way."

"But you're not an orc."

"Context my dear Bilbo."

LotR isn't nearly horny enough source material for prestige tv, they'll have to work on that a bit

― ciderpress, Monday, November 13, 2017 1:55 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it is perhaps the least horny literature

― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Monday, November 13, 2017 1:58 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Don't worry, the fans have filled the gaps.

― Simon H., Monday, November 13, 2017 2:40 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The exact nature of what's happening remains kinda maddeningly unclear. The two key factors:

1) As noted, to what extent is this an extension of the Jackson movie interpretations, with associated backstory (not always Tolkien's).

2) What is the estate's involvement, and what rights in question have been sold to what texts?

― Ned Raggett, Monday, November 13, 2017 2:43 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Found it:

Amazon today announced it has acquired the global television rights to all The Lord of the Rings fan fiction based on the celebrated fantasy novels by J.R.R. Tolkien, with a multi-season commitment. The upcoming Amazon Prime Original will be produced by Amazon Studios in cooperation with the Tolkien Estate and Trust, HarperCollins, FantasyFuckz.biz, and New Line Cinema, a division of Warner Bros. Entertainment....
Set in Middle Earth, the television adaptation will explore new, sizzling-hot elf-sex storylines preceding J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Fellowship of the Ring. The deal includes potential additional spin-off series.

The Lays of Beleriand indeed!

Beren & Luthien & Carol & Bob

they paid $250m for this o_O
― Number None, Monday, November 13, 2017 8:58 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Legend of the Seeker" would have gone for a song.

BATTLEFIELD HAM dekalogy or gtfo

oh god no leave him alone he's already dead

>>Beren & Luthien & Carol & Bob<<

I'd wear it.

this is v surprising news, because christopher tolkien despises jackson's films and has been consistent in his refusal to sell the rights to the silmarillion or any of the "history of middle-earth" stuff. my assumption wd be that "in cooperation with the tolkien estate" is just a nicety/PR formality and this series won't actually be an adaptation of JRRT's non-LOTR stuff. but who knows.

I think it's clearly spelling out new stories?

Speaking of "Legend of the Seeker," is Goodkind now pretending he never wrote a 17-book fantasy series? His website only describes him as the writer of two thriller books.

At some unknown time between September of 2016 and April of 2017, Terry Goodkind's official website was scrubbed of all references to the Sword of Truth series, and his Facebook page was made private or removed, potentially signalling that Goodkind may be moving on from his most well-known work.[26]

maybe the new stories are stories by by christopher tolkien, at last his creative light will shine

fuck you dad, hobbits suck, "in a hole in the sea lived a bobbitt"

Oh fp

That goodkind factoid is super weird
Though tbh I️ too have pretended like his fantasies were never published

He may have deleted it, but conservative columnist John Podhoretz‏ had some tweet asking why the Tolkien estate was so greedy to ask so much money

you'd think the conservative ideal of charging whatever price the market would bear would have occurred to him. sheesh.

I think it's clearly spelling out new stories?

― eeshTrip (darraghmac), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 4:20 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hard pass

Goodkind apparently identifies as an Objectivist according to wiki.
Also who is worse: Terry Goodkind or Terry Brooks?

i suspect amazon wd rather come up with new stories set in the same universe than try to adapt a bunch of mostly unfinished myths and narratives from a 12-volume set anyway.

if there are no sexy elves in the first episode i'll be very frustrated.

it would be a bummer cause there are dozens of filmable stories from the Tolkien legendarium, in the appendices and the unfinished tales or wherever, that they would just create their own stories with Hobbits or Elves or whatever and call it Lord of the Rings.

ian otm

The Erotic Confessions of the Witch-King of Angmar

imo the whole Tolkien canon is overrated and the films were well-made if overwrought

having a really pulpy tv drama would be a good reflection on it

it should also invert the racism/sexism/perceptions of same in the original work to really piss off the purists

I guess I mean the Lord of the Rings ones, the whole Hobbit thing I kind of paid half-attention to on television and couldn't figure out why this fun reasonable-sized story was burdened by all this crap that was grafted on to it by all the later books

it's about this short dude and his buddies who go on a quest to defeat a dragon, not sure why it needed more than one movie

^^ hint: it didn't.

the first hobbit was fine, the other two unwatchable

most gripping dishwashing scene since scarface

Goodkind worse than brooks bc at least brooks was one of the first to the ripoff post

Okay, finally, an explanation as to why this is happening -- not too surprising in the end but here we go:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2017/11/15/104426-in-historic-move-christopher-tolkien-resigns-as-director-of-tolkien-estate/

his successor: azog the defiler

How dare you say that about his sister and his wife. :-D

retiring on those super amazon dollars

bring on the hobbit sex I guess

Christopher Tolkien has been the Dúnadan thanklessly guarding us from gratuitous hobbit sex all these years.

as much as I think the LOTR movies are great, I wouldn't be averse to someone else doing them as a longer tv series, after some consideration. You could potentially have 12 hour long examinations of each book then and really do them justice but break them up in a way that isn't a horrible slog.

Well it won't be this crew, per the original note.

Christopher Tolkien has been mining his dad's notes for flabby bullshit pseudo-scholarly volumes of tedium for decades. Amazon will just be doing a different kind of unnecessary exploitation.

Tsk.

i think it's p ungenerous to characterize a guy who dedicated decades of his life to preserving his dad's work (and i doubt any of those books, bar maybe the silmarillion, made much money) as engaging in any kind of "exploitation."

obviously i want a full-length douglas gordon version of PJ's hobbit slowed down to two frames a second

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a31q2ZQcETw

xp loving suffocation is the correct term iirc

would be amusing if they did unfinished tales and didn't resolve anything, or did a whole year of beren and luthien but restarted it every episode, kept changing the names, and never completing the story

I saw 24 Hour Psycho! well, like, 15 minutes of it. That was cool

"Christopher Tolkien has been mining his dad's notes for flabby bullshit pseudo-scholarly volumes of tedium for decades" that's a bit harsh but it is amusing to look at all those volumes and assume that he thought somewhere someone was really poring over every detail in them at Oxford or something. cuz no one is.

loving suffocation is the correct term iirc

And I own them all! (Even the ones he didn't do, did I mention I got the critical edition of A Secret Vice in the mail the other day and etc.)

They should use this to explore the magical ring angle a bit more

the children of hurin book did pretty well iirc, prob cause that one actually told a story and wasn't just a collection of unfinished ephemera

did anyone here read tolkien's version of beowulf? kept meaning to pick that one up.

Recently got it and mean to give it a read -- my understanding is that it was never a formal translation, more of a kind of notes for himself for lectures and for reference.

Neeson is i think the right age for Theoden, he's a solid 10 years older than Bernard Hill was when he filmed his role. though Neeson doesn't look it. i think if you beard him up he'd look the part.

― omar little, Monday, 13 November 2017 19:07 (three weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Literally over the hill

― eeshTrip (darraghmac), Monday, 13 November 2017 19:08 (three weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And at least twice as big as an underhill

― eeshTrip (darraghmac), Monday, 13 November 2017 19:09 (three weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That were good that

You're hired.

The Curse of Feanor Parts 1-13

Something of an update:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/how-lord-rings-tv-series-landed-at-amazon-not-netflix-1099213

Key bits:

* Five season commitment
* Amazon must be in production within two years
* "Amazon may use material from the films" so Warners/New Line are involved, per mentions up above
* Jackson's involvement would be his choice; his lawyer "recently helped start a dialogue between Jackson and Amazon"
* Theoretically the Weinsteins could still try and get some cash. They are, however, strangely occupied at present.

* Five season commitment

uh-oh

I hope that jackson will only 'choose' to get involved if he feels passionately motivated by the material, since we have learned to our woe what garbage ensues when he isn't really feeling it

I...would not mind this.

I just want to say, as someone who rereads Lord of the Rings every two years, has seen all the films dozens of times, and once wrote a college term paper in Elvish, I would give a lung to run this show. Maybe even one of mine. @Netflix https://t.co/umKFr96jXE

— J. Michael Straczynski (@straczynski) April 8, 2018

I have no idea whether Straczynski's mid 80s run on Spider-Man was good or not but I grew up with it so he is near to my heart.

Wasn't he behind crappy show HEROES?

Heroes was Tim Kring and Jeph Loeb.

Given JMS's best known for doing what was basically LOTR In Space, he does seem like the logical choice. Declaring his interest on Twitter does seem a bit of a "play" though, as it's bound to garner enough positive fan response that he can say "Ahh, you have to give me the gig now as all these people think it's a good idea."

I have no idea whether Straczynski's mid 80s run on Spider-Man was good or not but I grew up with it so he is near to my heart.

typo? He didn't write Spider-Man til the '00s

and it was not good

also he tagged Netflix instead of Amazon in that tweet

I can sense deems's utter delight from here:

Decisions are being made by Peter Jackson and his NZ crew:

Return to Middle-earth with Amazon, or play in the DC Universe? pic.twitter.com/tjF7B0PSAX

— TheOneRing.net (@theoneringnet) May 9, 2018

http://i.imgur.com/GoRGDoE.gif

hi ned i knew this would be u and me

"We're not that different, you and I."

If anyone itt has not seen that set of video essays (which eventually blossoms into a full-on doc) on why the Hobbit movies sucked and the corporate fuckery surrounding their production, they're really worth your time. Goes from a less unsavory RLM type deal to something very different.

Yeah, it's really great. I'd recommend the third part even to those who don't care much about LOTR.

links?

Simon H., searching YT gives me two multi-part series on The Hobbit movies, one by Lindsay Ellis and one by The Nigerian Prince. Is it one of those?

Lindsay Ellis, and it's three parts (for obvious joke reasons)

I'm watching these now instead of working and it's great

Yeah that was pretty entertaining/informative, Callen's a good catch for it. (Kind of the perfect guy, really, since he's the oldest of all that group of actors and clearly into a DGAF mode in general.) Only thing I'm not sure about is that she didn't seem to tie in the delays due to MGM's debt fuckup as supposedly stretching things out so much that that factored into del Toro's departure; the case she makes treats the two as wholly separate when my understanding is otherwise. Beyond that, great work.

We got news

[BREAKING] We have confirmed from multiple sources that @AmazonStudios new billion-dollar #LOTR series will open its first season centered on a young Aragorn.

Let's discuss whats available and how this opens up Tolkien's Legendarium. A thread. #Tolkien
/1 pic.twitter.com/mfbkf4jyX6

— TheOneRing.net (@theoneringnet) May 16, 2018

This essentially means a move to the initially mooted plan for The Hobbit where that was going to be one film and the second film would have been this era.

they should cast stuart townsend as aragorn

Better yet, Arathorn, and have him die in the first ten minutes.

cool that they picked the least interesting angle

You were preferring a first season discussing how Old Toby came by the plant instead.

didn't ever think they'd go full Silmarillion

young smeagol or gtfo

yung smeagol is my elvish rap name

yung smeagol is my elvish rap name

was hoping for a show where a grizzled old detective has to settle petty grievances between hobbits

meanwhile The Ringer just described Aragorn as "the Jon Snow of Tolkien's fantasy saga" and I want to die

dance in the dark and i sing to the morning light!
imagine the runes write in gold to bring the balance
at least, the sun is shining, the clouds of blue and white
with flames from the dragon of darkness, the sunrise blind delight
bring it back!

back, at last

o now o!

writ in gold :)

xxxp i have called gandalf "lotr dumbledorf" because i couldn't remember his name

dumbledore

Clear as mud, and yet.

https://consequenceofsound.net/2018/06/peter-jackson-lord-of-the-rings-amazon/

I had a phone conversation with Amazon on that one — I think that was over a year ago and it sounded like they were doing the right thing [with the show], they have very good intentions with it, it all sounds very fascinating and exciting. However, I would not want to be the one responsible for the entire TV series, simply because I’ve never been responsible for a [long-term] series like this before in my life. So it would not be very smart if I took on the role of showrunner. What I’m actually doing right now is putting the creative team [behind the series] together.

giant eagles to pick this fuck up and drop him into hawaii thx

But Mortal Engines

which looks ok from the snippet i saw tbh

More info.

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/jennifer-salke-lord-of-the-rings-amazon-1202840237/

Salke inherited a number of projects in the works, none bigger than a forthcoming series adaptation of J. R. R. Tolkien’s “The Lord of the Rings,” the subject of a massive deal last year that Bezos involved himself personally in. According to Salke, that deal only officially closed last month. But Amazon has been meeting with writers. Salke herself spent three hours with Tolkien’s grandson Simon Tolkien, and the next step is for representatives of the Tolkien estate to meet with writers.

“It’s a partnership,” she said of Amazon’s deal with the estate. “They have some lines in the play on this on strategy and on vision. The great news about that is that they’re actually really thoughtful and smart, as you would expect.”

The Tolkien deal covers most, but not all of the material connected to the author’s Middle Earth saga. Salke said that it is still too early to say what shape, exactly, the series will take. But, she added, “It’s not a remaking of the movies, and it’s not a whole new thing. It’s something in between. It’s not, ‘Oh, it’s “Lord of the Rings” but you don’t recognize anything in it,’ but it’s not totally familiar to you either. So it’s original.”

They have some lines in the play on this

Is that a real expression?

In Santa Monica? Why not.

Hmm.

“I wisely started with a map” — J.R.R. Tolkien

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) February 13, 2019

Also

Amazon @PrimeVideo #TCA19: @AmazonStudios head Jen Salke says there has been "great progress" in developing #TheLordOfTheRings series but there's no news to report.

— Michael Schneider (@franklinavenue) February 13, 2019

Just do the Children of Hurin already!

Could work...

I mean at least young Aragorn has a general arc and path to follow if that's still the initial goal, thanks to the appendices.

you can't hurry...hurin

I just have to wait?

Real heads know 1st Age > 3rd Age.

I mean Fingolfin squaring off against Morgoth versus feeb Sauron afraid to leave his tower.

In related news, this looks pretty missable
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Girzu81oS8Q

I'll still see it, just because I'm boggling over the fact that this is the director's follow-up film to his Tom of Finland biopic. THAT'S a connection I would have never expected.

Sam of Buckland

"Oo-er, Mr. Frodo."

Separately, they've tweeted out this:

Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, pic.twitter.com/unJj1Bpde1

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) February 15, 2019

https://www.amazon.com/adlp/lotronprime

Took me a second but something that catches my eye -- they've extended the map to the east, referencing some of Tolkien's earlier maps and sketches a bit. Was half-thinking it could be some sort of Silmarillion-referencing buildup -- Lake Cuiviénen as such isn't apparent, Hildórien maybe? -- but I'm thinking it may be more of a way to showcase some of the lands Aragorn is supposed to have wandered in when he first left Gondor.

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them, In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. #LOTRonPrime pic.twitter.com/7TuQh7gRPD

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) March 7, 2019

the show is gonna take place in the second age and i'm immediately way more intrigued

i've met my quota on ages

This sounds more promising than Young Aragorn.

makes me wanna play Baldur's Gate

General question for Ned and other superfans: how are you feeling about all this? Are you pumped? Is this gonna be great?

Like a lot of people, I’ve read the main books and watched the films several times (er, the hobbit only once, though) and in general I love LotR. I read a little bit of the silmarillion when I was a kid but that’s about it.

Just curious if this has the potential to be amaaaaazing or if it’s better to be more skeptical at this point.

Pre Fall-of-Numenor 2nd Age could be interesting.

it's a story that hasn't been told in full in book or film form yet, just appendices and prologues, and it certainly has more appeal to me than a young Aragorn figures out how to become a hero story.

but also, if you have a billion dollar budget, just do the fuckin silmarillion maaan

but also, if you have a billion dollar budget, just do the fuckin silmarillion maaan

― voodoo chili, Thursday, March 7, 2019 12:33 PM (fifty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Bingo.

Or Children of Hurin. Glaurang is an evil mindfucker on the level of Zeus.

Okay wait, where are we taking the Silmarillion as ending? Because the one I have on my bookcase includes the Children of Hurin and basically ends past the end of LOTR (though those are probably appendices?)

yeah there's an appendix called "of rings of power and the third age" but the rest of the book takes place well before LOTR

Children of a Húrin is definitely in the book The Silmarillion, though an expanded standalone version was released that I liked a lot. Children of Hurin only tangentially related to the story of the Silmarils (ie no Silmarils) but does provide the backstory to the fall of Nargothrond.

Hi there! I have thoughts!

First thought -- you should all subscribe to this podcast that starts next month:

https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater

Because it's, well, mine. Jared and Oriana and I will have plennnnnty of thoughts on this. And we already have, starting with her post today (and yes, subscribe to the Twitter feed please)

And for now, here's @Schwindter's initial thoughts on the news that the Amazon's series's first season focus will be the Second Age and, very likely, the Fall of Numenor. https://t.co/tGr9Qo1X2z

— By-the-Bywater (@BytheBywater) March 7, 2019

So here's what we've been able to figure -- based on the exact details of the map (and I think just about everything that's named will play a role), this is almost certainly a 'rings origin story' set in the middle of the Second Age. Rivendell does not exist, the Ost-in-Edhil predominance clearly means this is going to focus heavily on Celebrimbor, the forging of the rings of power, Sauron-as-Annatar and the eventual invasion of Eriador and Numenor's response/intervention.

On the one hand this is an intriguing blank slate -- Tolkien wrote very little specifically dealing with all this aside from appendices/backstory, and the bulk you can find he did write in more detail is scattered fragments collected in Unfinished Tales. On the other hand there's arguably the danger of overexplaining things that only needed details, and tonally they have to invent a lot of dialogue that has to balance entertainment with the estate's presumably watchful eye.

One thing I can think of is that this'll be a new casting of Elrond here, so who's the young Hugo Weaving? (In essence.)

my fav part of the map was that before Mordor, there was a perfectly enclosed region that nobody settled--was it just a dark and miserable place even before evil dropped in?

I'll definitely listen to that podcast.

I read the Silmarillion as a kid, but this isn't material that I know well. I feel like the challenge of adapting legendarium material will be to give it grounding and immediacy, the way the hobbits counterbalance the epic sweep of LOTR.

xpost At the very least, probably dry and arid, though there's a comment in LOTR that the Sea of Nurnen, though 'bitter' (a la the Dead Sea, I'm guessing), was surrounded by arable land that could be irrigated by the rivers that feed into it, and that Aragorn granted the area to Sauron's slaves who worked said fields. Gorgoroth itself was probably pretty bad in general thanks to Mt. Doom but there's no real further detail in terms of that pre-Sauron era.

I feel like the challenge of adapting legendarium material will be to give it grounding and immediacy, the way the hobbits counterbalance the epic sweep of LOTR.

Very. Tolkien himself was well aware of this when it came to the original work -- Christopher in the intro to the first Book of Lost Tales quoted a comment from Tolkien where he acknowledged this kind of deeper work on his part would be of less interest to many readers because of its "'heigh stile' -- no hobbits!" And since the hobbits as such don't really interact with these big Second Age events in any specific way, it kinda leaves the field open.

Worth noting that another Unfinished Tales entry -- which I'm particularly fond of -- called Aldarion and Erendis has the closest to 'daily life in Numenor' as Tolkien ever wrote, and there's moments of 'regular' people cropping up in the story here and there. Not enough to totally go on, though.

Forwarded your podcast to a huge Tolkien nerd friend, who subscribed immediately. Will report back!

Ha, nothing is happening for another month (very busy schedule on my end and we also wanted to get a visit to the Tolkien exhibition in NYC under our belt). But we figured we could stoke interest a bit!

Anyway, thanks!

Meantime I have to wonder if they're going to stick with that title as it stands -- The Lord of the Rings on Prime is, how you say, unwieldy and inaccurate. Idle thought, though, is that if this is a Rings of Power origin story, arguably the whole idea is showing how Sauron became such a figure, etc., and then the prime mover for millennia for any number of things. The map extensions to the east and south could factor in.

just seen it described under the twitter heading of

young sauron

cunts

Just curious if this has the potential to be amaaaaazing or if it’s better to be more skeptical at this point.

How amaaaaaaazing do you find the showrunners’ previous work?

yung nec

tiny 'mancer

Are we finally going to find out how they became Lords of the Rings?

How the Ringwraiths learned to work as a team

How Gandolf got his beard.

And hat!

How amaaaaaaazing do you find the showrunners’ previous work?

Wow, yeah, this is brutal. How do you get this kind of project with almost no track record?

Writer (4 credits)
Flash Gordon (screenplay) (announced)
2020 The Lord of the Rings (TV Series) (created by - 1 episode) (announced)
- Episode #1.1 (2020) ... (creator)
Untitled Star Trek Sequel (written by) (pre-production)
2016 Star Trek Beyond (writer - uncredited)

guys

tiny 'mancer

I like it.

it is said that Sauron's original name was 'Mairon or "the admirable", though this was altered after he was suborned by Melkor. Despite this, he continued to call himself Mairon the Admirable, or Tar-Mairon "King Excellent"

lol Sauron is such a dweeb

He'll grow out of it. Who hasn't had a D&D phase?

Sauron = Kylo Ren

it'll be interesting to have sauron as an actual character here, not just the symbol of cosmic and eternal evil

just thought of a title for a Young Aragorn series that might revive its fortunes

"Ranger Things"

Things are starting to settle in...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=12244913

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?objectid=12245671&ref=twitter

This is going to come out in perfect time for my kid to probably get really interested in it and for me to be a cranky sourpuss about the entire thing.

"Let me tell ya about the golden times, kid. They had to hand etch the CGI Gollum a pixel at a time."

the budget for this is $1.5 BILLION, what the fuck

muppets or gtfo

i'm trying to figure out how i will feel if the whole thing comes off like The Hobbit

im going to withhold judgement until i tetsuo and take everything with me

Okay we have some actual news here:

https://deadline.com/2019/07/the-lord-of-the-rings-j-a-bayona-direct-amazon-series-juan-antonio-bayona-1202640048/

Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom director

oof

Thankfully not the only thing he's done. (The Orphanage, etc.)

We got a cast member!

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-series-amazon-cast-markella-kavenagh-1203268175/

And we've had several cast members since though they've still officially confirmed nothing HOWEVER...per a friend in Auckland who sent this along, looks like filming begins next month.

A little new news re the Amazon series that's not in the forthcoming episode (already recorded) -- an Auckland listener says these are all up over the city, and that filming starts next month. pic.twitter.com/af377i741q

— By-the-Bywater (@BytheBywater) January 7, 2020

i completely forgot they were even making this

By default we've been tracking this on the podcast. It's all been very weird -- on the one hand, lots of firm commitments (they've already renewed for a second season, Bayona's been in Auckland for at least a month now, etc.), on the other hand a lot of weird caginess -- the slowly dribbled out casting stories via Variety/Deadline, none of which have been confirmed specifically by Amazon, and otherwise only a few local press mentions in NZ itself. It's strange to say but they've been a lot clearer about casting for The Wheel of Time, which is also a big Amazon production. (WoT also noticeably has been a lot more varied in its cast -- let's just say that even with potential limitations of the source material, the cast for this series has been pretty pale so far.)

(My cohost Oriana has had some TV writing room experience, and even she's been puzzled at how some of this has been happening.)

how would a cast for a tolkien adaption NOT be pretty pale?

Does NED RAGGETT smoke pipe-weed?

xpost Thus my notes re limitations, you see.

Okay, an actual formal cast listing at fucking last. No word on what specific roles each will be playing, though. (Also notable: non-white actors!)

A grand journey is defined by its travelers. Meet the first members of our fellowship. #LOTRonPrime. A THREAD.

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) January 14, 2020

nazanin boniadi! I was so mad they killed her on Homeland I quit watching it.

I watch way too much shit but I have absolutely no idea who any of these ppl are

I don't know what's wrong with my eyes but I initially misread their hashtag as #LOTRonLifetime. If only, right?

Nazanin Boniadi:
http://https%3A//www.iranhumanrights.org/wp-content/uploads/001-en-28-1-e1559760285301.jpg

well fuck that

https://www.iranhumanrights.org/wp-content/uploads/001-en-28-1-e1559760285301.jpg

I have no idea who anyone else is though.

joseph mawle was the guy who played uncle benjen in GOT

right, how could I forget such an iconic character? how foolish of me

i didn't remember until i imdb'd him just now!

Uncle Benjen: one of 300 bearded guys

NEW ON AMAZON

BOMBADIL - THE EARLY YEARS

LOT RON PRIME

L. Ron Prime.

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/10/21/helvey_wide-b38acee7ab487c0ffb51b29b970bd9c45b948d57-s800-c85.jpg

LOT, UP THE I(RON)S PRIME

BOMBADILSTHETICS: The Modern Science of Dancing and Singing merrily in Primeval Forests

New news...sorta, kinda, maybe.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2020/12/03/109157-amazon-studios-announces-wave-2-of-casting-for-lord-of-the-rings-tv-show/

I admit I didn't expect to see Lenny Henry in this cast but here we are.

(There is still NO formal word about who is playing what role in this thing, and the only one that has been more or less confirmed elsewhere is Morfydd Clark as Galadriel.)

I had somehow forgotten that Galadriel was Arwen's grandma. Is their relationship ever discussed in more depth in The SimilarMarillion?

There's more of it in Unfinished Tales but it's never quite delved into. Celebrian being such a shadowy character didn't help.

into return of the king now with my 9-y-o. i had completely forgotten about “prince imrahil”! he feels very...... unnecessary

He kinda rules, I love Tolkien's random side digressions like that.

so mysterious that he is given no identifying features

like at one point tolkien just refers to "the prince" and we're like "who he"

I guess Tolkien needed a Gondorian lord to lead the beginning of the battle, given how all of the others are indisposed in way or another.

ok i can see that but.. aragorn gets there pretty quick (in the end). god the black sails moment gets me. "CORSAIRS!!"

the eowyn / merry moment is fucking glorious too. gandalf's like 'meriadoc you should have been borne into the city in glory!' and i'm like yes someone gets it

into return of the king now with my 9-y-o.

this sounds amazing <3

Eowyn vs. the Witch King was absolutely thrilling at that age.

imrahil was cool, tho i agree it was weird that he spent so much time emphasizing that gondor had no king without mentioning that they do have a lord who calls himself prince

That's...a lot.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/amazons-lord-of-the-rings-cost-465-million-one-season

I don't understand the economics of streaming but stuff like this and the Knives Out thing feel like there's something fishy going on

As @JamesHibberd notes in the story, the average season of "Game of Thrones" came in around $100 million. Holy cow. https://t.co/8RwZheLrAv

— Rick Porter (@rickporter) April 16, 2021

amazon is making 20+ billion in profits, annually, these days. weird thinking that they can totally pay off this show in a couple weeks

Just learned that WandaVision cost $225 million and the other Disney+ Marvel shows will also cost around $25m per episode

Some thoughts

NOTE FOR THE NEW LOTR: There's no reason why all characters in fantasy shows have to just have different types of British accents. They're not speaking English. Give all the dwarves really thick Bronx accents and make the elves Canadian.

— Ben Jenkins (@bencjenkins) April 19, 2021

Give Saruman the Snagglepuss voice, Tolkien's dead, he can't hurt you.

— Ben Jenkins (@bencjenkins) April 19, 2021

And all the guards should come in pairs, one of whom is named Jeremy and hates his job, and one who is enthusiastic and optimistic. I see where this is going.

— James Radvan (@jamesradvan) April 19, 2021

There is a further suggestion to have Saruman voiced by Joe Pasquale

Sauron's let himself go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2CGryAkxkM

Some actual info!

EXCLUSIVE: Official final contract signed between Amazon studios, GSR Production and New Zealand Film Commission for #LOTRonPrime . The post Covid agreements and marketing/ production plans for the entirety of season 1 up until release.

1/7 pic.twitter.com/qrDs5Lp2Sq

— Fellowship of Fans (@FansFellowship) June 12, 2021

Okay a lot going on here

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2021/07/20/110907-spy-report-incredible-details-from-amazons-lord-of-the-rings-characters-sexless-nudity-halflings/

sexless-nudity-halflings

Oh great, another Tolkien-themed band.

The stuff about a fake decoy production to distract attention from the actual filming is just nuts, can that really be true?

I was wondering about that too. Sounds pretty expensive.

Then again, Amazon, money to burn, etc.

sexless-nudity-halflings

I'm so conflicted.

Please don't fuck up The Fall of Gondolin.

Rather. But we're still getting Second Age stuff in essence, unless concrete flashbacks happen.

am i a bad person because i sort of want this to be terrible?

Yes and now I curse you like Morgoth did to Hurin

oh dear.

forks i'm sorry but you have been cursed by Ned, you may have made a big mistake here

brb going on a quest

Well well

Here’s your first look at Amazon’s #TheLordOfTheRings series which finally has a premiere date. https://t.co/2zma3Sv0qX pic.twitter.com/wUzGtjaZgm

— Variety (@Variety) August 2, 2021

Spoiler alert.

Why dmac they'll be closer to you now. Your duty calls.

https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-amazon-series-season-2-new-zealand-uk-1235040645/

Hm!

https://deadline.com/2021/09/the-lord-of-the-rings-composer-howard-shore-score-amazon-tv-series-middle-earth-jrr-tolkien-1234839274/

I hope it happens! I wonder if he’d need to do it ‘shop’ style? It’s bound to be a pretty furious pace. I mean obviously he is renowned for composing on a vast scale but he’s always had the luxury of time.

News to delight dmac's heart! Or not.

https://tvline.com/2022/01/19/lord-of-the-rings-series-title-the-rings-of-power-amazon-teaser-video/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhqGCPMfkNM

The key info as such, which is in line with everything else we've heard:

“This is a title that we imagine could live on the spine of a book next to J.R.R. Tolkien’s other classics,” showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay said in a statement. “Up until now, audiences have only seen on-screen the story of the One Ring — but before there was one, there were many… and we’re excited to share the epic story of them all.”

Per Payne and McKay, the series “unites all major stories of Middle-earth’s Second Age,” including the forging of the Rings of Power, the rise of the Dark Lord Sauron, the epic tale of Númenor (the island of men from which Aragorn is descended) and the Last Alliance of Elves and Men (chronicled in the prologue of Peter Jackson’s Fellowship of the Ring)....

Rings of Power, which premieres Friday, Sept. 2 with new episodes released weekly, takes place in the Second Age — thousands of years before the events of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings — and follows an ensemble of familiar and new characters as they “confront the long-feared re-emergence of evil to Middle-earth,” aka Sauron.

And we're into character poster time -- sort of. Just closeups like these but no actors' faces shown nor identity given. But read through the thread.

pic.twitter.com/K4CWKXospb

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) February 3, 2022

Or rather the feed, looks like it's a bunch of mini-threads.

What’s the latest on a composer? Anything to the Shore rumors?

No further word on that yet.

Cue the Annie L. photo spreads. Maybe.

We hear Middle-earth is quite nice this time of year. Big news tomorrow, 8 AM ET. ⚔️

— VANITY FAIR (@VanityFair) February 10, 2022

Also related (and provides some further clarity on how this deal hashed out in the first place)

An array of movie, merchandising, gaming and live event rights to #LordOfTheRings, #TheHobbit and other titles from author J.R.R. Tolkien are coming up for auction now that the Saul Zaentz Co. has decided to sell its Tolkien holdings. https://t.co/1HYaAQ2a4U

— Variety (@Variety) February 9, 2022

Said VF piece up and running!

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/amazon-the-rings-of-power-series-first-look

(Among other things the fact that Ismael Cruz Córdova and Nazanin Boniadi will be playing a hot-as-fuck couple onscreen is a good idea, really.)

*cautious excitement intensifies*

ppl on reddit are complaining about Blond Elrond and the elf ears being too pointy, because of course they are. I think everything looks fantastic, especially those nomad guys carrying antlers? dragon spines? on their backs. My main fear is that this is going to be overstuffed with incidental plots and characters a la GoT. I mean, I know that's typical of the genre, but I can see it easily going awry.

Ultimately they had to expand it out a bit with such characters because otherwise it's a fairly dry and detailless series of events, cataclysmic as they are. (The more so because, in a further instance of the Tolkien rights being as confusing as hell, it seems that they could draw from the appendices but not the published Akallabeth, though we'll see, I guess. Overstuffed, though...a definite possibility.

they should get the rights to akallabeth

Hope I live long enough for Turin Turambar live action.

Agreed, I wanna see some First Age action...maybe there'll be some flashbacks in this? There was that shot of the two trees a while back.

Well this is all tied up with the murky sense of the rights, again. I suggest reading both the Variety piece I linked a few posts up as well as crosschecking the relevant passages in the VF piece; it's almost impossible to easily summarize. (It's been over fifty years of sheer unclarity, really; the fact that the Rankin-Bass Hobbit exists alone is retrospectively very damned weird.) If, as is entirely possible, Amazon buys the Zaentz-held rights, then the possibilities for First Age adaptations seem to get stronger. Seem, though. Right now, that Two Trees shot strikes me as either concept art or a Galadriel flashback, as she's the only major character in Middle-earth left at that point who was there and remembers them.

Ned, you are harshing my Fingolfin death scene jones.

didn't read the VF piece but the photos give me a better vibe than the WOT ones did

i think i'm interested in this series bc i'm a bit "keep your mitts off!" vis-a-vis screen adaptations of my beloved Hobbit/LOTR (i'd rather have the world of my imagination), but i'm tickled by people playing in the sandbox of the appendices and deep lore that i'm not so personally attached to. hope it's good!

Ned, you are harshing my Fingolfin death scene jones.

Sorry, just being blunt here. Could it happen one day? Perhaps. Will it? We'll have to see. (My cohost Oriana's deepest creative dream is to write a Silmarillion adaptation of some sort.)

Sean's point is equivalent to something I was saying to my podcast cohosts as well -- while I would prefer the long arc of history here, say irregular seasons set across thousands of years (could happen, wish they tried it!), them openly saying they're compacting everything into a short period of time is both understandable and clear enough going in that I don't have to feel like it's a 'true' adaptation, instead a collation that might work in its own right.

as she's the only major character in Middle-earth left at that point who was there and remembers them.

maybe there'll be a subplot about maglor wandering the shores and singing his sorrow

A vision.

Nazanin Boniadi god I love her

say irregular seasons set across thousands of years (could happen, wish they tried it!),

yeah would be so interesting. you would definitely understand more of how elves view the world.

My cohost Jared said as much -- how fascinating would be the perspective of the 'long defeat' from those who are experiencing it that way.

After watching Foundation I think anyone would be scared off thousands of years of time spans. It's just so hard for it not to feel disjointed, to lose emotional investment in characters and struggle with any real arcs.

Yeah Foundation was the easy comparison point for me in terms of what’s happening here. As such, going more linear and not having to rely on genetic clones and suspended animation is a plus.

The three of us on the podcast are currently in 'hmmm' mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7v1hIkYH24

Any idea what the creature is at 0:40?

No idea. We're guessing troll. Better not be balrog (and probably isn't, seems too small).

Baby Balrog?

There’s a vision.

ned, is that a good “hmm” or bad “hmm”? i’m a bit nervous about how sheen and plastic everything looked when compared to the lived-in sets and costume designs of the jackson trilogy. i guess the world was younger.

also kinda odd that they didn’t stack the deck with a couple respected character actors. there are no mckellens, lees, or weavings among the cast here…

I partly blame the TV settings, since for once "sports mode" or whatever made sense, but I got serious It's All Too Much (Yet Not Enough) "Hobbit" vibes from the commercial. I'm also tired of giant CGI monsters lunging and roaring. That's the CGI monster equivalent of the heavy cracking his neck before the big fight.

yeah not an impressive trailer
with tolkien i always hope for "vibe" over action

I hate the fast cuts where you have to pause just to make out what's happening.

Feels like it's designed for frame-by-frame Twitter analysis more than anything.

eh. my enthusiasm for everything is at an all time low. I imagine I'll watch the first episode of this and see if I care enough to stick with it.

Feels like it's designed for frame-by-frame Twitter analysis more than anything.

Why, funny you should say that!

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/the-lord-of-the-rings-teaser-trailer-amazon

with tolkien i always hope for "vibe" over action

This is kinda what our collective 'hmm' was, answering voodoo chili in turn. I have to keep reminding myself that 1) this is the first time that the vast majority of people even learned this was happening, so deep lore wonkery wasn't going to be first and foremost and 2) given most of whatever narrative has been created has been done out of whole cloth there's a lot that we just have no idea was. But yeah, we're exactly thrilled at the idea of Galadriel being a warrior/general just so they can have their own Eowyn or whatever, especially per the one shot. To sean's point: our favorite moment was, honestly, that long shot of (presumably) a human and a harfoot/hobbit clasping hands at the end. If that really is a key vibe, we'll take it at least.

also kinda odd that they didn’t stack the deck with a couple respected character actors.

It's got a fair clutch of interesting names but you're correct the cast skews young. Here's the core cast as is known, though only a few of the roles have been stated yet:

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/fullcredits/cast

A couple of craggier figures here and there but not entirely.

But yeah, we're exactly thrilled

Missing a key word there! NOT exactly thrilled. Distinctly unthrilled.

Based on that VF breakdown, there's a lot more questions we have, honestly. If it's a compressed timeline, it's unclear whether they've essentially moved everything 'backward' to the middle of the Second Age or 'forward' to the end of it, and the descriptions make it seem more like the former? Which...okay, I can kinda buy it but I need to get a clearer idea of things.

This bit, honestly, I do like; I was wondering what her singing shot was about and this is an interesting riff:

Elrond receives a much warmer welcome from Princess Disa (Sophia Nomvete,) Durin IV's wife—and a perhaps even more beloved figure amid the plentiful song, light, and food of their underground realm. She is virtually the embodiment of that goodwill and prosperity.

A shot of her singing is about much more than music, however. This is how the dwarves commune with the mountain they live beneath. Reverberations tell them where to dig, but also—importantly—where not to dig.

If there's one thing the "Hobbit" movies demonstrated it's that we definitely need more singing.

The dwarves accidentally stopped singing for a minute and stumbled upon Durin's Bane. Never again.

Problems problems.

About half those character posters are still not formally identified yet. Couple of guesses on them:

pic.twitter.com/Wl6RqIyTEs

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) February 3, 2022

Numenorean due to the sun motif, as confirmed in the trailer breakdown, and I'm willing to bet this is Ar-Pharazon, probably when he was still just a rebellious warlord nephew to the previous king.

pic.twitter.com/OXQMDIBGLW

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) February 3, 2022

Given the first VF piece describing Isildur as a 'young sailor,' guessing this is him. Even though he's a little more than that and all.

pic.twitter.com/33y1uFkvLU

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) February 3, 2022

Yeah, I think this is clear enough. (That said this whole 'stranger' plot of the guy arriving in the meteor and meeting the harfoots and whatever is making us at the podcast wonder if this is supposed to be Sauron in early Annatar mode trying to figure out what he's dealing with, and said 'stranger' has been ID'd separately:

pic.twitter.com/B2qigIMaLL

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) February 3, 2022

Anyway, keep in mind this is all happening as well, will likely need to do a separate thread at some point...

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/lord-of-the-rings-the-war-of-the-rohirrim-release-date-1235181646/

Anyway, more from the showrunners

https://httwww.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/10-burning-questions-about-amazons-the-rings-of-power

Trying an actual working link here!

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/02/10-burning-questions-about-amazons-the-rings-of-power

This whole thing keeps making LESS sense the more I learn about it

It’s worth remembering, if only for legal reasons, that this is not the exact same world. The production design, though similar, is not trying to match the Jackson films. For example, King Elendil’s legendary broken sword, Narsil, which debuted on one of Prime Video’s promotional posters, does not look identical to the one eventually reforged and used by Viggo Mortenson’s Aragorn in The Return of the King.

This is the closest thing to rights clarity I've read and even then:

So what did Amazon buy? “We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit,” Payne says. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.” That takes a huge chunk of lore off the table and has left Tolkien fans wondering how this duo plans to tell a Second Age story without access to those materials. “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay says. “As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that (Tolkien) ever came up with."

There is actually some good info buried in here but the timeline issue is still clear as mud. As best as I can tell seems like the initial episode is supposed to set up everything and then we time jump maybe? I've heard weirder I guess.

I want to believe, but this sounds dumb.

I'm sure I will resubscribe to Prime in September for this

One bit of good news from that burning questions article is confirmation that Howard Shore is back!

“We’ve been given something…a stewardship,” Payne says.

Yeah, and look how that turned out.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/beavisandbutthead/images/7/7a/Stewart.jpeg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20110910035309

https://xsrock.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/winger.jpg

Sweet re Shore

Shore is good news to be...sure. I think the teaser looks kinda cheesy but I'm going to try to just suspend judgment until the thing finally airs.

The shot of the character on the ice covered cliff looked so much like a video game to me.

Yeah the Shore confirmation, along with Howe and Kate Hawley on costumes, makes for an interesting combination of continuity in terms of general look and feel, along with the NZ landscape itself of course. (If only Andrew Lesnie were still alive.)

The shot of the character on the ice covered cliff looked so much like a video game to me.

Trailers are often works in progress but after going on again about how much money they've put into this, releasing something that felt just like, say, the Wheel of Time trailers in terms of visual sheen was...underwhelming.

They don't make 'em like they used to

Apparently vanity fair has now excised the reference to Shore from the article :/

There was "confirmation" of Shore's involvement before the VF article though

@PrimeVideo confirmed Howard Shore as composer in LOTR: The Rings of Power on Instagram. #LOTRonPrime #LOTRROP pic.twitter.com/ih3ek6VctY

— Tolkien News (@Tolkien_News) January 20, 2022

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9rJHb-rvYo

Depends on the fan perhaps. Our thoughts took up the first half of the new episode -- we have skepticism on a number of fronts

https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/36

so, I'm going to apologize and ask that nobody watch that Youtube video I posted. a friend of mine who is a Tolkien fan shared it as a good example of people rushing to defend the show and not being versed in Tolkien lore.

....and then I found out Just Some Guy is an anti-liberal/progressive/antifa dude who believes Biden stole the White House.

next time, I am doing my homework on anybody I post. don't give this guy clicks.

also your podcast is great Ned!

Thanks kindly! And yes, we recommend our podcast over guys like that.

don’t you know sauron would be the righteous king if it wasn’t for galadriel and gandalf plotting against him in tom bombadil’s basement

This is a bit much.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2022/05/09/113105-the-vibes-of-power-amazon-shares-exciting-rings-of-power-insight/

Also I'm amused at the posting of this without any evident irony:

Invaluably, Amazon has managed to unite Tolkien fandom in a way only they can, with their seemingly infinite budgets.

Promo promo promo PR guff etc.

A whole new era of Middle-earth is about to unfold. Empire’s world-exclusive The Lord Of The Rings: The #RingsOfPower issue has three collectible covers – first up are the Elves, with Morfydd Clark’s Galadriel. On sale Thurs 9 June

Pre-order now: https://t.co/t8dt25YLDp #LOTRROP pic.twitter.com/71rfKdfBaz

— Empire Magazine (@empiremagazine) June 1, 2022

Our second world-exclusive The Lord Of The Rings: The #RingsOfPower cover is the Dwarves, featuring @OwainArthur’s Prince Durin IV and Sophia Nomvete’s Princess Disa, the rulers of Khazad-dûm. On sale Thurs 9 June

Pre-order now: https://t.co/azsfkTYvW5 #LOTRROP pic.twitter.com/i6V21es7vN

— Empire Magazine (@empiremagazine) June 1, 2022

Our third world-exclusive The Lord Of The Rings: The #RingsOfPower cover is the Harfoots, with Megan Richards’ Poppy Proudfellow, Markella Kavenagh’s Elanor ‘Nori’ Brandyfoot, and @LennyHenry’s Sadoc Burrows. On sale Thurs 9 June

Pre-order now: https://t.co/ymzviMAgbz #LOTRROP pic.twitter.com/pPcdS3B2LX

— Empire Magazine (@empiremagazine) June 1, 2022

Etc etc etc

EXCLUSIVE IMAGE 🔥

The Lord Of The Rings: The #RingsOfPower ‘doesn’t try to compete’ with Peter Jackson’s trilogy or Game Of Thrones, showrunner Patrick McKay tells Empire.

Read more, and see an exclusive snow-troll image here: https://t.co/ZSSDlTnQiE #LOTRROP pic.twitter.com/32BBmvFKyM

— Empire Magazine (@empiremagazine) June 5, 2022

🚨 EXCLUSIVE IMAGE ALERT 🚨

Lenny Henry plays 'Harfoot' Sadoc Burrows in The Lord Of The Rings: The #RingsOfPower: 'We're the traditional Tolkien little guy,' he tells Empire. #LOTRROP

Read more: https://t.co/196ws3y4ms pic.twitter.com/xZDJIX5q42

— Empire Magazine (@empiremagazine) June 6, 2022

EXCLUSIVE IMAGE 🔥

The Lord Of The Rings: The #RingsOfPower’s five seasons are fully planned out: ‘We know what our final shot will be,' showrunner JD Payne tells Empire. #LOTRROP

Read more: https://t.co/0wJf3FNnrD pic.twitter.com/pCr011rpbi

— Empire Magazine (@empiremagazine) June 6, 2022

Plus a short thing leading into whatever the big promo dump later in the week will be:

https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-power-five-seasons-fully-planned-out-exclusive/

This...is not what I figured Celebrimbor would look like.

EXCLUSIVE IMAGE 🚨

Meet The Lord Of The Rings: The #RingsOfPower's pivotal elf Celebrimbor, played by Charles Edwards. #LOTRROP

Read more: https://t.co/0xk05ZlPO1 pic.twitter.com/6iPFLbb3j7

— Empire Magazine (@empiremagazine) June 7, 2022

this nonsense is going to RULE

Looks more like Celebrimbore.

thinkin baout things

thinkin baout rings

Two months away from...whatever it'll be. Enjoy.

Watch the full sneak peek exclusively for Prime Members on https://t.co/Sw8xN6skP7. #TheRingsOfPower pic.twitter.com/fGkEHtngz3

— The Lord of the Rings on Prime (@LOTRonPrime) July 6, 2022

I heard a lot of the budget went to hiring actual wizards and dragons rather than wasting money on computers.

It was either that or just buying New Zealand.

visuals look way better here than they did on that trailer

It's just gonna be a Tekken style fighting game but a TV show

Looks like "Lord of the Elden Ring."

Elden Ring knew what to rip off for a reason.

It does generally work for me better as a trailer, but will want to see what next week exactly brings us.

HMMMM.

https://ew.com/tv/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-numenor-first-look/

My cohosts and I are...pondering. Full trailer tomorrow.

And here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewgCqJDI_Nk

cautiously optimistic. tho if the hobbit films didn’t ruin my enjoyment of this whole thing, idk if anything will

I don't think it will be bad in the same way as the Hobbit films. But it looks kind of bland.

Nothing really says "Tolkein" to me about this world except the shot of the guy with the walking stick at the end (and the Welsh names)

Was hoping for something more nuanced than 'oh it will be the end of EVERYTHING'

The Hobbits Take Manhattan

Not impressed at all. Looks expensive and cheap at the same time. That Galadriel repeated line is terrible.

At least we'll finally find out how Galadriel became Spider-man.

Reading up on Númenor this morning, and I think my Tolkien cosmology must be rusty - the world is literally unflattened during the fall of Númenor?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Downfall_of_N%C3%BAmenor.svg/1024px-Downfall_of_N%C3%BAmenor.svg.png

Yup, exactly that.

the tolkien nerd in me can't quite comprehend the fact that sauron's return and the fall of numenor are happening at the same time in the show, when thousands of years should separate those stories

This was brought up in the Vanity Fair articles six months back. Basically they're doing some sort of compression of history which, adaptations happen. There was ALMOST a hint that maybe the first episode is a scene-setter set further back in the Second Age but we won't know until we see things.

I mean, would I like them to start with, say, the story of Aldarion and Erendis, which is an absolutely wonderful and very striking small-scale domestic drama that still portends Numenor's eventual doom millennia in the past? Absolutely. But guess what they don't have the rights to!

they seem to have akallabeth, but not the silmarillion. not sure how that works

They don't even have that! Just the redacted version in the LOTR appendices -- ALL they have specifically are the appendices.

Looking forward to three episodes on the Shire calendar.

HRM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYnQDsaxHZU

Random question for Ned. Do you know if there's any information about Thuringwethil outside of The Silmarillion? Her brief appearance in that book is intriguing.

I just love the name: Woman of Secret Shadow.

I’m trying to remember her appearances in general over his various drafts and rewrites — pretty light in all, but I might be missing a story. Will have to check!

Found it funny that they apparently wanted to film the first season in Wellington, but had to choose Auckland instead, since Cameron was filming his "Avatar"s in Wellington. Dibs!

Would have been great if they filmed this in the Malibu hills, like M*A*S*H.

Am I right that the Lord of the Rings prequel will be on TV the same time as the Game of Thrones prequel? They should have a crossover event.

Yeah the GoT one lands a couple of weeks before this series

For our latest podcast episode we had some thoughts on these trailers. They are not entirely pleased thoughts.

https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/41

*scratches head* This is not a good trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8UAUAuKNcU

Lot of Acting going on there

Some lovely visuals. But my frowning at this just keeps increasing. Guess we'll all find out next week!

if they were jut gonna get rights to ancillary things, they should have just made a show that ripped off LOTR

like King of the Discs

God it looks so dull

dialog is crushingly bad

it reminds me of the 2001 direct to video movie of Final Fantasy, so lifeless & bland

Wing Commander movie

Not impressed at all. Looks expensive and cheap at the same time. That Galadriel repeated line is terrible.

― Am I doomposting? I would say you’re not doomposting enough. (PBKR), Thursday, July 14, 2022 12:36 PM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

Any thoughts on the score? Most of the themes are very good (Numenor, Elrond) to instant classic (Galadriel), although the instrumentation is not as inventive as in the original films.

Still optimistic for the first episodes!

I've heard the score. Bland and I do not agree with your instant classic choice.

Or the very good ones either! The vast majority of the pieces consist of slow start/choir/BIG CRESCENDO ending lather-rinse-repeat.

yeah honestly nothing about it so far bodes terribly well

first ep is about cancel culture

Or the very good ones either! The vast majority of the pieces consist of slow start/choir/BIG CRESCENDO ending lather-rinse-repeat.

I salute your patience. I got through a listen the other day and was very bored and distracted with it by the closing hour. Doubtless exposure via the show will let things settle in some but there's nothing truly remarkable out of the gate -- and as you noted, nowhere near the level of instrumentation inspiration that Shore brought. There's literally not a single musical moment as suddenly thrilling and memorable as that hardringar melody that's the core of the Rohan theme, for instance. (Also I'm convinced McCreary thinks that choirs were used on nearly every single piece Shore created, which is so not the case!)

The most memorable moment in this new score is the interesting plot-driven one where the Dwarves 'sing' to know the rocks and where to mine; it's a great touch and Sophia Nomvete pulls off something Lisa Gerrardish in the resultant track. But man does it ever stand out as a result.

I listened to that, and then I let it play, so I listened to the next track. I understand there's Irish hobbits, now, Father?

Faith and begorrah

Oh mccreary ended up scoring this? Zzzzzzz

Bear McCreary scores a million things.

Hit show is called "The Bear."

One of the lead characters on "Reservation Dogs" is named Bear.

Hmm ...

Wake me when OpenAI is good enough where I can type "Silmarillion into a miniseries" and it generates something better than this. I bet it'll only take a few years.

Trailer saved me a lot of time.

I mean...

https://i.imgur.com/6RCKph7.png

I did a quick glance (I want to stay spoiler-free), but most people here seem to be enthusiastic about the EPIC SCALE and visuals. Not a lot of talk about the story or dialogue, but did I mention the EPIC SCALE?

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2022/08/23/114542-first-impressions-of-the-rings-of-power-as-social-media-embargo-lifts/

"Don't worry, it's nothing like The Silmarillion!"

Really, really fun. I remember buying the Silmarillion as a schoolboy when it was published and it very much not being the prequel I was hoping for. This is the sort of thing I wanted to experience back then. I'll watch the whole series when it drops, with enthusiasm. https://t.co/eEcGJvCOjk

— Neil Gaiman (@neilhimself) August 24, 2022

Such epic much wow

Gaiman gonna kiss their ass so that Amazon gives him some of that cash after Netflix cancels "Sandman."

ha i thought the same thing

a positive review emerges

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-reviews/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-1234579403/

Was wondering when the embargo would finally lift.

a negative review emerges

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tv/2022/08/31/lord-rings-tv-show-review/

lol

Is there a double or triple episode drop this weekend or will it be just one a week?

“game of thrones” does this mean balrog sex or

xp - Two episodes this week, then one every week.

Yup. Here's the schedule overall

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2022/08/16/114402-the-rings-of-power-full-airing-schedule-is-now-available/

The first season alone cost $465 million, according to the Hollywood Reporter

So... $250 million for rights, $465 million for season 1, and four more seasons to go?

the rights presumably only need to be bought once

Money money money

Looking at the trailer, the series aspires to be the animated version of the front cover illustrations from a thousand swords-and-dragons books. Lots of eye candy, but the whole package delivered by rote.

Well having seen the first episode via the free screenings tonight…

Yeah, I’ll have a lot to say later. Money’s on the screen. Music worked better in context. Cast generally acquit themselves well.

But oh are there negatives. And I’ll leave it at that!

Anyway our latest episode is live in the meantime. Recorded on Sunday so some of my thoughts in particular are slightly outdated but anyway...

https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/42

While we wait

i fixed it pic.twitter.com/tmMvmpdu3w

— joolsd (@joolsd) September 1, 2022

Also!

i think it looks good pic.twitter.com/f0uRix1qMt

— Patrick (@Pizza_Suplex) September 1, 2022

lmao

Yeah my anticipation for this is officially in the basement, but I'll probably check out the first ep or two regardless

my anticipation for this is in the backyard having a smoke waiting for ppl to do the heavy lifting for me

also i feel like the tolkien of it all is just a trick to get me to watch an incomprehensible borefest full of elves

Seconded

Well the three of us podcast cohosts watched it here via a jury-rigged Watch Party -- I'd already seen it the previous evening as well via the special screenings -- and...the trick comment re VG's post is not entirely far off. We all have our different takes on it but I'm officially the most generous of them, and boy howdy, this is a mix of technical accomplishment, good casting, a couple of individual moments that are very Tolkien in the best way and a whole looooooot of CHOICES re story/dialogue that, phew. It would absolutely work better if it was a separate non-Tolkien story entirely (and even then it would not entirely succeed).

I fear if dmac sees it he will die so I hope he does not.

From my cohost Jared and I would agree with this. But keep the implication of the opening sentence in mind.

There are bright spots. Almost all of the actors are doing their best—Morfydd Clark, Ismail Cruz Cordova, Sophia Nomvete, and Nazanin Boniadi are all somehow able to feel like real personalities. And Valinor as a strangely ominous Twilight Zone presence is great.

— Jared Pechaček (@vandroidhelsing) September 2, 2022

Not had a chance to watch it yet but filesize on torrent sites is pretty large so is it like really long.

It was good. Looks unbelievable. The main overall arc will probably be strong, the challenge is breathing life into the various storylines on the side. Getting us to care.

Will say, dwarves were largerly non-present in Jackson's movies and Durin's a lot better than Gimli already. Kazad dum probably the most exciting new world to explore.

Casting unknown/lesser known actors certainly helps the suspension of disbelief.

GoT ended up like a west end panto with famous people popping up in every role, camera winking and pay-cheque pocketing increasingly visible to the audience.

I liked it but the real test will be putting it in front of the 9 and 13 year old..

My spies have informed me that there is OIRISHNESS in this, so the little curiosity I had about it has now evaporated. But I will watch it with the husband just to be sociable.

Yeah, those nice Home Counties Hobbits are revealed to have evolved from mud-spattered leprechauns. I don't get how that kind of thing is still considered acceptable.

Wife was pretty annoyed by the Irish Hobbits, and especially the music played in the shire. Her other big annoyance was that most of the male actors were "weird looking and not cute."

We only watched the first episode and I was kinda tired but I thought it was officially "fine." Nothing really bothers me about it (the music is bland at best, the Irish hobbits are irritating) but I didn't think anything about it was particularly inspiring or impressive either. I liked the snow troll fight scene, and it's sort of sad that a short action scene was the most impressive or memorable. Elves and humans both being hugely racist is a nice tough I guess.

So fiurst 2 episodes are an hour and a half each?
THinking size of d/ld file bigger than usual. Like twice teh size and stuff.

First ep was just over an hour

This is pretty good!

a big complaint among folks on twitter seems to be “the elves are too ugly”

Eleven can't be choosers

*Elven

I have further thoughts on a particular thing that's irritating me

Collective thoughts are going to be in the next @BytheBywater episode in a month; there'll be more episodes of the series itself to talk about by then. Right now I'm just here to discuss a big issue with _The Rings of Power_: the problem of time and history. Thread! (1/whatever)

— Ned Raggett (@NedRaggett) September 2, 2022

I didn't hate this! The plotting is ropey as hell and the dialogue...oof. But it looks nice, the performances are solid, and the bones of a potentially compelling story are here. I'm enjoying it through the lens of "extremely expensive fanfic"

elves schmelves all these dudes look like relics from third-tier English boy bands ugh

I watched most of the first episode last night though think I may have been falling asleep. So interesting I guess
This is like the Silmarillion plus innit.
Like not sure to what extent it is directly from Tolkien.
Does look good. I assume filesize must be visual data. Every file looks like it is larger than what that duration normally is anyway from my own experience. On a torrent site there are normally several groupings of filesize options from something to watch on a portable screen to something that is several gb per file.
I tend to go toward the smaller end of the scale not quite the smallest since it does look good on a medium size flatscreen. Every option for this seemed to be larger filesize than normal. Range I pick it seemed about 1/3 larger than normal for a standard tv show length.
Subsequently I was expecting it to be epic in length. Which looked like it might be a chore to sit through 2 in a row of.

So looks good and I will get through episode 2 later.

I'm enjoying it with a few reservations (those pennywhistles...urgh). Visually gorgeous.

We immediately clocked the music as being the work of Bear McCreary, who also does the terrible music for Outlander. In the end, the Oirishness didn't bother me that much. I sort of get it? The elves are English, (including that guy who always plays Michael Palin in things), the dwarves are Scottish, so I guess the harfoots have to be from somewhere. But it didn't even seem like an Irish accent they were going for, as much as a sort of Traveller/Gypsy accent, which is way worse. Oh well. Lenny Henry can do what he loikes at this stage, I don't care.
Overall, I liked it more than I thought I would. Certainly compared to House of the Dragon. I'd much rather watch a lot of exposition interspersed with a stone-smashing contest and some business on a raft than mechanical shagging and boring jousting scenes which do not even have Geoffrey Chaucer in them. At least it has colours! And jokes! And it was genuinely kind of affecting to see Khazad-Dum in all its glory.

The Rings of Peace more like

I watched the first ep last night, quite pished and all I can remember was that it had some terrible acting and was rank garbage, but I say that about nearly everything these days.

Quite liked it, it was better than the Hobbit movies anyway.

But so tiresome to do a prequel and yet STILL launch with extensive WHAT HAS COME BEFORES of Morgoth and Sauron v1.0. Like, if you've got years to tell the story of the world before LotR, maybe just fucking tell the story of the world before LotR?

lenny henrys big book of prophecy seems extremely dumb

like something out of bad video game storytelling, not a lotr head but my understanding is that the wider lore doesn't have any of the prophecy/chosen one garbage that is in all mass market fantasy/sci fi media

There’s moments as background — the long dead figure of Malbeth the Seer, a message or two from Galadriel, another long dead dude who was at the Paths of the Dead — but nothing central. So yeah the book of prophecies thing is very left field.

Strange, I didn't read that as a "book of prophecy" at all, but rather a simple almanac. Which made a lot of sense to me in the context of the Harfoots being nomads who need to keep track of the seasons, etc. Did I miss something?

I’m not particularly attached to Tolkien, I also thought this was much better than I was expecting despite some dodgy acting and odd editing flubs. Thought the opening 20 mins of the first episode was really pacey and involving, and that built up a lot of goodwill. Miles better than the new GoT, EOTW and the Hobbit movies (so far)

Accessing TV through the Prime app is always a mood killer though

I kind of died a little when, in the second episode, Galadriel’s new shipmate reveals he was chased out of his home in the south by orcs in recent years by orcs when she’s been stomping around the north for a bazillion years and believes no one’s seen an orc for a long time

really tricky, that Sauron!

Some ppl on reddit theorizing that ship dude *is* Sauron. Tricky indeed!

I doubt any of the characters so far are Sauron but maybe they’re all Sauron!

wizard who fell to middle earth is probably not, though

Meteor Man is clearly David Bowie after he died on Earth

Blind Guardian shoulda done the score

lmao

Husband and I were amusing ourselves with the idea that dude who fell out of the sky is Tom Bombadil, and that as soon as he learns to talk it is all over for this programme that Amazon spent nearly a billion dollars on. (We know it's not him.)

Ha believe me at one point I was thinking “Be amusing if this guy is Bombadil-ish.” He’s being handled better than I expected; having him be unable to really communicate and capable of violent or at least threatening acts makes him a bit of a chaos factor for now.

I have to say a sequence I thought was really striking was the house combat with the one orc. Bayona with good horror and action chops there, and after so much ‘heroes defeat huge rabble of orcs’ over most of the earlier films, turning it into a situation where just one orc can be a brutally terrifying and not easy to kill threat was smart. Be nice if we see more of that.

Yes, it was great to see an orc that was actually terrifying!

I fell asleep during both episodes. I think it was the cliched dialog combined with all the unearned gravitas.

lol im just stitting back enjoying what complete pricks the elves are

which is canon dont @ me

just watched the 2nd ep, it was much better than the first. All that invoking some ancient rite to get into a house where they all hate you and consider you a wanker was pretty good.

easter egg hommage to last of the summer wine also

they should be paying some Compo for that. The hunk on the raft is a very tedious character and a crap actor. On the other hand, Owain Arthur is brilliant.

🚨dots and loops reference 🚨

the writers seem to have played a LOT of Diablo growing up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBu-yUzWXqg

"to the east i go not"

looks pretty east to me dude

Do we know how far Valinor is from Middle Earth?

Like, it doesn't seem the best plan to jump off the boat if you're then in the middle of the sea, hundreds of miles from anywhere?

ned (aka the bombadil of the internet) will better know the answer to this than me but don't the elves (some elves) at one point get from old valinor (pre sundering) to old middle earth (pre flood) by walking across the equivalent of the arctic? "if it's walkable it's swimmable" is my motto (don't rely on my motto if yr not an elf who can't die except by violence)

xp I thought something might appear to try tp eat her.
& that she hadn't really taken in where she was

Just watched “Saint Maud”, starring Nu Galadriel, this afternoon. I can she why she was cast in the series. She can play a - uhm - particular kind of “determined” pretty well.

the snails are a love & rockets ref y/n

https://i.imgur.com/kMCSuY1.png

ned (aka the bombadil of the internet) will better know the answer to this than me but don't the elves (some elves) at one point get from old valinor (pre sundering) to old middle earth (pre flood) by walking across the equivalent of the arctic? "if it's walkable it's swimmable" is my motto (don't rely on my motto if yr not an elf who can't die except by violence)

Correct:

https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Helcarax%C3%AB

As with nearly everything in the Silmarillion the TV show ignores or contradicts this.

idle thought: are the mewlips in the extended universe?

the snails are a love & rockets ref

I like this

xpost Depends on if they feed

watched the first ep. it was enjoyable, and well-made. as a tolkien nerd, i'll never truly enjoy it like it's meant to be enjoyed. i was never so pedantic to get caught up in the differences between book and film in the jackson trilogy, but it's getting to me here.

probably because the whole thing feels like it was re-written by a team of lawyers redlining what the show does and does not have the rights to

Hahahah a very apt summary!

it was kind of incredible how they yadda-yadda’d through like, thousands of years in that intro! i was like, whoooaaa slow down or is this gonna be set like 5 years prior to LOTR

Which makes it all the more surprising that the way they showed the death of the Trees was actually...great? Like not even showing/talking about Ungoliant they pretty much showed what happened, representing Morgoth as a looming shadow was a smart touch, and the whole visual of the Trees going out and the leaves falling off, and did all that in just five or so seconds! (Then they fucked everything else up.)

So it sounds like if I'm someone who has never read a jot of Tolkien nor seen any of the PJ films (shut up, thats why), I might enjoy this more with nothing to compare it to?

Or I might not have a tinker's clue whats going on? I just kept thinking of the Dwemer city in Skyrim in the dwarven scenes.

as ned says, they've evidently somewhat taken the line "ok *fvck* the silmarillion then" (which i am fine with tho some are not): this to the extent that all the pre-existing name characters (exception: galadriel) are insufferable when they're not already THE GREAT FOE(S)

all you need to know really is that the warrior elves sailed from the west to complete some gangsta business and most of them think they did and it's time to go home but it's lookin like they actually didn't uh oh

not knowing who the nudie fireball beardo is = you are currently in exactly the same place as those who actually like remember there are two minas tiriths etc (i mean we do know but some ppl are insisting no it can't be bcz blee blee bloo)

Who is it? I’m assuming a wizard/Istari but not sure which one.

its nudo the problematic wizard