The Jordan Peterson Thread

I've been musing devoting a thread to this guy for a while but this is motivating me right now. I can't find info on the faculty letter elsewhere but this Peterson quote (verifiable from the embedded video) is something else:

I have absolutely no regrets about going after the postmodern neo-Marxists as hard as I possibly can and I am certainly not done doing so. So, one of the thing that is going to happen, for example, in the next month or so, I have been working with a programmer who has volunteered his services and has already produced this, he has produced a website that enables people to enter text that will then classify the text as postmodern or non-postmodern and so you will be able to enter a course descriptions from universities – the course description, the professor’s name, the discipline, and the university. It will tell you the degree to which the description is postmodern and then you can decide for yourself whether you want to take that and become a social justice warrior, if that is what you think your education should be about, or if you should avoid that like the plague that it truly is … I’d like to knock enrollment in the postmodern disciplines down by 75% over the next five years. I think that I am thinking about it from the perspective of nonviolent warfare, it is that serious to me and that this would be equivalent to cutting off the supply chain. It is like the postmodernists need a continual influx of young impressionable minds in order to continue their propagandistic and society devouring efforts and I am going to do absolutely everything I can to cut that supply chain off at the source.”

he linked the FB profiles of some associates of mine on Twitter in order to sicc his awful followers on them.

Standout features, to start (assuming this is not empty bluster, which is likely):
i) the level of entitlement it would take for a clinical psychology professor to decide that he should be able to decide which courses and programmes offered by his employer and which of his colleagues should survive and which should perish; does tenure do this to you?

ii) He would in fact do this, not even by applying his own judgment, but with a text-sorting algorithm that he is confident would be able to determine a course's level of postmodernism by scanning a course description (half of mine are not even written by me fwiw)

iii) postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing?

xp

he linked the FB profiles of some associates of mine on Twitter in order to sicc his awful followers on them.

Ugh

postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing

as a budding neo- (or at least contemporary) Marxist I feel I can pretty confidently state: no. He's talking out of his ass and conflating totally separate phenomena, some of which he has completely made up

not even by applying his own judgment, but with a text-sorting algorithm that he is confident would be able to determine a course's level of postmodernism by scanning a course description

he's flattering himself with the word "algorithm", for sure he's just going to come up with a list of offensing keywords and crtl-f

And he throws the ever elusive "skeletons" in there too just to make it clear he has no idea what he's talking about xpost

iii) postmodern neo-Marxism: is this even a real thing?

post-marxism is a thing but peterson just means "cultural marxists" or whatever. usually right-wing buzzword nonsense.

i mean he uses the phrase "postmodern disciplines", he is just thinking of anything apart from STEM here isn't he?

He's talking out of his ass and conflating totally separate phenomena

I don't think intellectual honesty is the goal he's aiming for.

Scholarship is boring and difficult for most people and not well-rewarded. Plunging into political controversy with all guns blazing and taking the side of reactionary conservatism, otoh, is invigorating, doesn't tax one's intellectual ability, and if you catch the eye of talent-scouts for a billionaire-funded right wing think tank, it can be enriching, too.

Re: what he means by "post-modern Neo-Marxism," this Reddit post seems to get at it:

Marxism is a very broad social theory that extends far beyond its implementation in Soviet Russia and Mao’s China. Its core assertion is that whoever controls the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marx’s writings) controls the ‘knowledge’ in society—the set of social norms, values and cultural conventions. This ‘ideology’ thus comes to be regarded as natural by everyone in society, even though it is only true in the sense that it benefits the bourgeoisie at the expense of the proletariat. Marx called this accepted ideology ‘false consciousness’.
Marxism experienced a revival in the social sciences in the 1960s as a theoretical framework for understanding how structures of power shape the social order. This approach to sociology went hand in hand with other emerging theories that questioned and challenged these relations of power (post-modernism, post-colonialism and post-structuralism in particular).
What Jordan Peterson is criticising, is a neo-marxist evaluation of how our society functions. In particular, people who believe that dominant cultural ideas are products of exploitative and oppressive elites. Which, for SJWs, is the white, cis-gendered, patriarchy.

Full thread here.

Just seeing this title made me retch. Not that we shouldn't talk about him, of course.

I just find it bizarre that he (or people of his ilk) equates "SJWs" (a derisive term for people who are extremely vocal but pretty strictly about issues of representation, mostly in pop-culture stuff) with marxists of any stripe

fwiw, the Athenian, Critias (fl. 5th century B.C.), argued that the gods were the invention of the wealthy and powerful few, solely for the purpose of controlling the masses. So, it's not as if the idea began with Marx.

Ironically, Critias himself was a wealthy reactionary politician from a powerful family, who was the leading man among the Thirty Tryants put in place by the Spartans to rule Athens after the Peloponnesian War. He helped carry out bloody purges of democratic leaders in the city. Probably the kind of guy Jordan would approve of, except by Jordan's definition Critias was practically a neo-Marxist SJW.

I wonder where he locates his own views in relation to postmodernism. They don't seem diametrically opposed. There was an interview where he argued for a pragmatist theory of truth and said that scientific truth is secondary and less important than the pragmatic truth of religion, which has to do with utility/morality/flourishing.

He argues that his views are rooted in biology and evolution — Darwinism, basically — in contrast to what he identifies as the social constructionism of the postmodernists. Though I'm less comfortable tossing these $5 words around than he is.

I like when he talks about religion and art, completely uninterested in his pronoun obsession, and his followers are p vile and pathetic for the most part. i do like listening to him speak though, he's entertaining as a pop philosopher. his obsession with postmodernists and marxists is also a little tiresome (i admittedly don't know much about either in depth, to the level where i could confidently call bullshit or not), but the transgender thing is really fuckin grating.

he's a total dipshit

I was just having a conversation about this with a coworker. It's a shame he has fallen into this b.s. rabbit hole. I like his lectures on Jung, religious archetypes, and "cultural dna." I find some of his arguments about the value of religious principles convincing—and I'm in no way religious. The biggest Peterson fan I know is an atheist, as I think many of his followers are. But this dude has a major chip on his shoulder about this pronoun issue. He's also clearly miffed from getting torn apart on Sam Harris's podcast. It's a bummer that he's so caught up in this shit, and with no end in sight.

Say what you want about Peterson, Sam Harris, and others of their ilk. I think it's a positive thing that these people are getting some attention. I don't remember any prominent philsophers or psychologists getting semi-mainstream attention before. And even if people are hearing these discussions through a Joe Rogan podcast, that's fine by me.

He is not getting attention for his scholarly work in psychology.

I was a fan of his from his appearances on The Agenda, a local current affairs show. And his Maps of Meaning is an interesting take on religious and mythological archetypes, in the Joseph Campbell and Northrop Frye vein. It's been disturbing to watch him elevated as this figurehead of the alt right, though I think it's also a consequence of the general polarization at the moment — he believes the "pronoun" issue (or specifically the vulnerability of our institutions like schools and the law to the machinations of radical leftists, which he sees as little different from Nazis) is a step on the path to the kind of murderous totalitarianism of the Soviet era.

If you mean Steve Paikin's The Agenda on TVO, that has always been good when I've watched it. The debate about gender was a very good and at times illuminating episode imo (although Peterson wasn't the best part of it).

It is pretty lazy and irresponsible to associate Peterson with the alt-right. I know plenty of liberals that follow him, as well as reasonable conservatives. He's getting pegged as alt-right by quite a few blogs now.

Though he isn't helping his cause by embracing Pepe, focusing his ire exclusively on the left, appearing on alt right media like The Rebel. He was on Fox & Friends this afternoon.

It's not lazy, he's embraced that group wholeheartedly. They're the reason 99% of the people who've heard of him have heard of him and they're the reason he can pull in $30k a month with his Patreon.

It is pretty lazy and irresponsible to associate Peterson with the alt-right. I know plenty of liberals that follow him, as well as reasonable conservatives. He's getting pegged as alt-right by quite a few blogs now.

― Benjamin-, Friday, November 10, 2017 2:23 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know arguing with someone like you is a waste of time because you're not ever going to be arguing in good faith, but ...

jordan peterson is directly connected to the rebel, who hosted a crowdfunding campaign for him. he associates with the worst examples of the canadian alt-right, and has intentionally built a profile based on his transphobia which he has monetized.

like when you repeatedly appear getting interviewed by people like prison paul, the leader of the proud boys, you are being quite deliberate about who you want to associate with and why

a quick google confirms he was literally on fox and friends today

Marxism is a very broad social theory that extends far beyond its implementation in Soviet Russia and Mao’s China. Its core assertion is that whoever controls the means of production (the bourgeoisie in Marx’s writings) controls the ‘knowledge’ in society—the set of social norms, values and cultural conventions. This ‘ideology’ thus comes to be regarded as natural by everyone in society, even though it is only true in the sense that it benefits the bourgeoisie at the expense of the proletariat. Marx called this accepted ideology ‘false consciousness’.
Marxism experienced a revival in the social sciences in the 1960s as a theoretical framework for understanding how structures of power shape the social order. This approach to sociology went hand in hand with other emerging theories that questioned and challenged these relations of power (post-modernism, post-colonialism and post-structuralism in particular).
What Jordan Peterson is criticising, is a neo-marxist evaluation of how our society functions. In particular, people who believe that dominant cultural ideas are products of exploitative and oppressive elites. Which, for SJWs, is the white, cis-gendered, patriarchy.

See, the thing is, I'm not actually sure that this is an informed and coherent description of a real intellectual tradition, although, unlike Peterson, I recognize that intellectual history in philosophy and social science is not my area of specialization. (Marxism IS a modern grand narrative, for one thing, while I gather that postmodernism, insofar as I understand it to mean anything, involves some sort of scepticism of grand narratives.) It is more or less what he was saying on Fox and Friends, though, that postmodernism was when Marxism 'turned into' identity politics in the 60s, which seems very, very odd.

I really like the cultural DNA and semiotics discussion and as a non-religious person I find the religious meta-narrative stuff fascinating. I don't know his past but he seems to have gained an audience beyond his students & academia and is pursuing them and catering to them regardless of their belief system/makeup. he's an opportunist. i'm not gonna give him money but the little pop philosophy clips of his lectures on youtube are fun to listen to as someone that's really into semiotics and grand narratives. his postmodern / marxist schtick isn't really any different than what DFW was talking about in Infinite Jest, coping with the loss of God and how we have satisfied that innate religious impulse within all of us through various 'false idols' or dead ends or whatever, whether it's drugs or food or social media or hive mind cliques. I like that he mentions the Gulag Archipelago and Solzhenitsyn in almost every interview he does.

his postmodern / marxist schtick isn't really any different than what DFW was talking about in Infinite Jest, coping with the loss of God and how we have satisfied that innate religious impulse within all of us through various 'false idols' or dead ends or whatever, whether it's drugs or food or social media or hive mind cliques.

I haven't read Infinite Jest but it makes me think more of Obama-era Glenn Beck or a million right-wing conspiracy theorists (see the Rich Higgins memo or a bunch of these, in Canada: Worst National Post Columnist).

Closer to Chomsky than Glenn Beck.

He has a vocabulary, but he's basically a "political correctness sucks, amirite?" troll. Fuck him.

(I try not to make a practice of posting on threads about people I hate/make me mad, but as a Canadian academic, this guy has been an unavoidable nuisance for the last year or so.)

That's where he gets his money, but that's far from all he talks about. To be fair I'm not at all interested in the internecine battles of Canadian academics.

^suggest ban

Perhaps he has a way to tie all this together and I'm just not aware, but yeah, it's really difficult for me to see "marxist post-modernism" as anything but a paradox.

To be fair I'm not at all interested in the internecine battles of Canadian academics.

He is literally talking about using his social media following to go 'as hard as [he] possibly can' after any courses, disciplines, or professors that his computer program judges to be 'postmodern' via a scan of keywords in course descriptions. This isn't about something he said on a tenure review committee.

ftr, Chomsky never tried to prevent students from being exposed to other ideas.

http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/is-jordan-peterson-the-stupid-mans-smart-person/

ha, that's a good one and i loved the distinction between post-modern neo-marxism and cultural marxism.

In the least shocking news ever, Bill Maher is having this asshole on his show next week.

Boring guy nobody pays attention to imo. Maher or Petersen whatever.

Shit, we already had a thread for this fuck?

There’s been months of bullshit about him on the alt-right thread.

Also, fuck this guy,he’s a despicable idiot grifter and a nihilist at heart. I hope his family abandons him and his funeral is a well-oiled procedure conducted by bureaucrats wearing disposable gloves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyw3Nl8LbFg

I’m waiting for the revelation that this guy has just been a Christoph Waltz character all along.

Bill Maher’s endless piping on about how he’s some arbiter of anti pc is laughable. Luckily Maher is so dumb that most guests can just shut him down

oh, come in.. I didn't see you out there... in the dark.

welcome... welcome to Lobster Manor... a respite, or perhaps, a trap? I jape, traveler, I jape...

I think if nothing else you will find the accommodations very... clean.

yes... very clean indeed. pic.twitter.com/FrB3B2Ucq6

— lvl45 CHAOS POTUS who thinks 'the pee won't leak' (@thetomzone) April 22, 2018

should I be surprised that every comment on that video is complaining about the woman on the panel for not shutting up and listening to Jordan Peterson

was trying to figure out who he reminded me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYAzjJRZ6HA

He’s a little like Kermit the frog vocally.

My buddy tried to show me this clown’s video on the Illuminati and I shut it off in 30 seconds. His lectures are insufferable - somewhat more tolerable on Maher but yeah I couldn’t believe my otherwise intelligent friend likes this fuckhead. Escalated into my friend calling me a dick and my response was “sorry man, can’t go for that “

what about the illuminati though??

Sorry Evan what do you mean? He was talking about the eye of Horus on the bill etc

Just the usual paranoid ravings of a madman

ross otm, i can't even see the appeal w/ this guy at all

"all the lefties are telling you this, that's what the postmodernists do, they are totalitarian! " bla bla bla he is completely unlistenable

he totally bombed on the Overtime segment. they're all talking about Trump impeachment + everything developing now and JP pipes up "but what will happen to the people that like him/identified with him" ...but in many more words & just confused + stumbling. also Alex Wagner owned him with that line "wow you really know a lot about me for having just met me"

I don't know, I thought he brought up a completely reasonable point about the current divide and the inevitable mess with Trump loyalists when their king is deposed. The problem was that he was making a plea for considering MAGA feelings immediately on the heels of arguing that when "solving a problem" it is *necessary* to offend others, and Wagner pounced on that.

this guy set his minions on me a couple weeks ago:

One activist, Sean Michaels @stgramophone, objects to me & the great & callow cowards at @Metropolisbleu dissociate themselves from @MtPressClub event honoring courageous Saudi dissident Raif Badawi (https://t.co/47ANcuIZSq) @BarbaraRKay @DMillardHaskell @benshapiro @joerogan pic.twitter.com/OKbWiflxQX

— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) April 11, 2018

let me put it this way: for acolytes of a self-help guru, they are not a very pleasant group of people

ugh this guy just drips self-satisfaction, he's so overly mannered in his poses and countenance, he's just deeply in love with himself. no wonder he appeals to red pill shitheads.

I don't know, I thought he brought up a completely reasonable point about the current divide and the inevitable mess with Trump loyalists when their king is deposed. The problem was that he was making a plea for considering MAGA feelings immediately on the heels of arguing that when "solving a problem" it is *necessary* to offend others, and Wagner pounced on that.

― DACA Flocka Flame (Hadrian VIII), Monday, April 23, 2018 1:38 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Right, the way everyone responded to it (m/l "not talking down to people or telling them they're dumb") was otm, but Peterson was essentially just hemming and hawing trying not to say exactly that, "what about their feelings?" which is especially rich after his whole "right to be offended" thing (which is otm).

He's never going to go away, is he

I mean the way they portrayed him on the show elided all of the worst stuff JP has said. In isolation he came off OK on the show. Would've been nice if they quoted or played clips of what he's actually said about transpeople.

He's never going to go away, is he

I think like a lot of these figures his audience will dwindle to a small amount of true believers (and then continue to shrink) rather soon. He's not canny enough to reinvent himself in order to keep up with the modern attention cycle. Only someone like Trump can do that and he had to become president to do it.

Thought this was a fairly decent yarn

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/the-intellectual-we-deserve

whoever it was that said "oh, we need to *educate* these people" should read one of the many many NYT articles about how Trump voters still love Trump, despite the fact that he's done fuck all to help them

feel like this guy is just the latest version of Camille Paglia or Richard Dawkins or any number of other "controversial" academic media-figures that manages to push people's buttons. Eventually the luster/novelty fades and no one gives a shit anymore.

All these charlatans just stay in their circle. But the idea that he is 'the most influential intellectual' or whatever seems to have come and gone. At the end he has written a popular self-help book.

just another daddy figure who will disappoint in the end, i figure

Alas, the odds that Kanye gives him another signal boost in the next little bit are pretty solid

Listened to one of his interviews with Joe Rogan a few weeks ago. I like the self-help jibberjabber, but every five minutes it would be punctuated by "...and these postmodern neomarxists on the left want eqwolity of oatcome!" What might be a good self-help author who doesn't have issues?

And can someone explain the postmodernism thing to me? I don't know anything about postmodernist philosophy, but the art has always seemed very nice.

You want book recommendations, or you want an explanation of the whole 'postmodern marxism ruined western civilization' spiel?

re: self-help, I hear good things about David Smail's stuff.

Fred, book reccos for the self-help stuff. I'm hoping for just a precis on the postmodern boogieman.

the best 'postmodernism' is so amazing and ethical, i just don't get the kneejerk response.

any critique of power is so suggestive about all sorts of new possibilities, why are people so fucking scared of that? people suck

how's life if you want conservative up-its-own-ass self-help without so many explicit problems and a bit more openness from a poet's perspective check out 'iron john'.

really though everyone needs to read bell hooks

I've just always taken the 'postmodern marxism' thing to be like this: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/78mnny/unwrapping-the-conspiracy-theory-that-drives-the-alt-right Though less tainted by literal nazis.

For real postmodernism, I'd say read Lyotard. Short and good. The Postmodern Condition is the classic, that defines the problem as the lack of grand narratives. The Differend is even better, dealing with truth and politics, and Just Gaming is an attempt at defining a new ethics without narratives, based on gaming. 'Just Gaming' Get it?

i'd go with deleuze & guattari, derrida and foucault. there's more juice in a single paragraph written by any of them than anything this peterson shithead could possibly conceive of. i've only read a little but roland barthes is fun. alain badiou for something more contemporary. why are all these jordan peterson types scared so shitless of feminism? at it's best it's some of the most rigorous, bracing truth anyone can read!

i think science and technology studies has a lot of force to push back against the "science is god" people like maher. i.e. bruno latour, "we have never been modern," which is a pretty great title imo

We Have Never Been Modern is a 1991 book by Bruno Latour, originally published in French as Nous n'avons jamais été modernes : Essai d'anthropologie symétrique (English translation: 1993).[1]

The book is an "anthropology of science" that explores the dualistic distinction modernity makes between nature and society. Pre-modern peoples, argues Latour, made no such division. Contemporary matters of public concern such as global warming, the HIV/AIDS pandemic and emerging biotechnologies mix politics, science, popular and specialist discourse to such a degree that a tidy nature/culture dualism is no longer possible. This inconsistency has given rise to post-modern and anti-modern movements. Latour attempts to reconnect the social and natural worlds by arguing that the modernist distinction between nature and culture never existed. He claims we must rework our thinking to conceive of a "Parliament of Things" wherein natural phenomena, social phenomena and the discourse about them are not seen as separate objects to be studied by specialists, but as hybrids made and scrutinized by the public interaction of people, things and concepts.[2][3]

also: david harvey (geography background), who is very readable on space and capital

Walker Percy’s Lost in the Cosmos is a fun one.

STS should be taught in high school

i uh waht

https://i.imgur.com/qCDdu4E.jpg

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=jordan%20peterson

i thought i'd found the worst manifestation of peterson fandom but you effortlessly beat it, kudos

Everyone hustling trying to make those JP bucks.

i don't know he seems more milo than dawkins. the alt-right stole a lot from the left, but the thing i'm most gratified about is their tendency to eat their own.

there is a very weird and very present vaporwave/alt-right crossover

there's also a strange convergence between the "incel" running down people in toronto and this thread

Shocking, utterly.

i mentioned the ATD mixtapes on the vaporwave thread a few weeks ago.
guess he is trying to pick up some traction give that he ditched the whole uk hip hop thing a few years ago when it was an obvious dead end for him.
other than the fact JP is really not my thing, the main problem is that JPs voice just aint right for vocal cut-up/mixtape action.

Man does this dude dish out well worn platitudes. He gets paid millions to coach on self help banalities like “control what you can control” - well duh. Only thing he says I think is helpful is how people need to find their own passion to feel connected, otherwise you may just feel empty working 9-5. But that’s obvious too

LOBSTERVATION COFFEE MUG

so did jordan peterson actually make that movie "the lobster"? i can't figure out what's going on anymore

this dude's so obsessed with helping the fringe lunatics see the light that it begs the question - who hurt U?

clearly his wallets not hurting with 36 thousand in donations a month

when i think lobsters i think Deleuze and Guattari so this whole thing would be tremendously confusing if i ever read anything about JorPee

my wife posted an old picture of me wearing a stupid novelty lobster hat on facebook yesterday and all i could think was 'shit i hope no-one thinks i'm a jordan peterson stan'

he has ruined lobsters for at least a generation imo

nah he's still a pond shrimp

God is a lobster or a double-claw, a double bind. It is not only the strata which pair up into twos at the very least, but in another fashion each strata is double (it will itself have many levels). Each strata presents, in effect, phenomena constitutive of a double articulation.

interesting piece by Wesley Yang: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a19834137/jordan-peterson-interview/

Yang's level of credulity toward JP is a bit troubling but I think he sort of successfully shows why someone who didn't know how to begin calling JP on his bullshit might find his message compelling

Perry Anderson to thread re: "postmodern Marxism"

'A bit troubling'? Lol

yang: "Increasingly one hears that the problem menacing the world today is not the excesses of masculinity, but masculinity itself. That masculinity itself must—and can—be eradicated."

who says this

all the bad people on ilx who must be trolled

got ya postmodern irony RIGHT HERE

Christ almighty at that interview, lol:

I noted that while we still read the canonical thinkers who presumed to address the big questions, nobody attempted to write in such a mode anymore. “People told me that the time for the great theories in psychology is over,” he said. “I said, ‘It might be over for you, but it’s not over for me.’ ”

Peterson made plain that he was speaking out against the enforced adoption of an unscientific political terminology, and not to denigrate the transgendered. Yet it was easy to call it an act of hate and harassment directed at a vulnerable minority, and many did.

Yes, seeing as there was no 'enforced adoption', it was quite easy to call it something else.

the police literally forced him to recognize somebody else's preferred mode of address rather than the absolutely correct scientific terminology handed down at the creation of time

language isn't science except when it is science when all of a sudden it's an absolutely transparent reference to unshakeable prelinguistic taxonomy

it's not just that he's wicked, or that he's a wicked moron, it's that he's a wicked moron i've already spent 5 minutes thinking about this morning because i couldn't be arsed to do something else

Bingo #2

all the bad people on ilx who must be trolled

― hepatitis groan (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 8 May 2018 07:42 (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes

what if there was a peaceful noncontroptimist need to dismantle masculinity just because it's boring and loud or something but with peace and love peace and love

ive been at it years tbrrwu

i'd call it more "exasperated eyerolling" than actual trolling

it's not hard to get absurd people to say absurd things

nb: i am an absurd person

anyway, despite my being given to hyperbolic and extremist overstatement, i don't think even i would go so far as saying that masculinity should be eradicated, or that it has no virtues. i'm not a big fan of real or simulated violence, which seems to comprise a large chunk of "masculinity", but there are absolutely positive benefits to masculinity. grilling, for instance. grilling is cool.

removing stubborn jar lids

killing insects

reaching things on high shelves

an interesting one that one because it's actually biologically rooted, as opposed to most stuff classified as "masculine" which is just gender-as-social-construct shit

i don't get people who can't tell the difference. have these motherfuckers never seen a yogurt commercial?

can't wait til people stop using the world wide web because it was created by it dweebs

they got porn onto it

the most heroic dweebs what ever dweebed

but there are absolutely positive benefits to masculinity. grilling, for instance. grilling is cool.

Grilling is cool. And also dicks. Dicks are pretty cool, too. The big downside of lobsters is their lack of dicks.

want to shout out map for that great list of works to read earlier in the thread

is that US grilling or UK grilling? cos not sure cheese on toast is alpha masculine

And also dicks. Dicks are pretty cool, too

i'm not trying to do a "gotcha!" thing, just trying to gently correct, but dicks aren't essentially masculine

i agree they can be pretty cool

but then i guess none of the listed good traits of masculinity here are essentially masculine so nm

jp reads his own writing, realizes how badly his thatcher paraphrase went, cries
https://www.facebook.com/realchillerwhale/videos/10155170272417257

Is he in a goddamn bathrobe

He was on Start the Week on Monday. Steeling myself to listen. Lawrence Wright was also on; hoping he might provide some resistance.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b2gsct

A pretty good book review/excoriation from a conservative Catholic professor:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/book-review-jordan-petersons-12-rules-for-life-78542

so this dude's book is like The Secret for people who claim everything they do is governed by "logic," right?

And who grab terminology from Heidegger

ideotv did a podcast on 12 rules
http://www.idontevenownatelevision.com/2018/05/13/106-12-rules-for-life-an-antidote-to-chaos/

A pretty good book review/excoriation from a conservative Catholic professor:

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/book-review-jordan-petersons-12-rules-for-life-78542

― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, May 15, 2018 1:13 PM (fifty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is beautiful

LOL he's on cheesy Channel 5 discussion show The Wright Stuff this morning - sometime home to such intellectual heavyweights as Christopher Biggins, Hardeep Singh Kohli and Anne Diamond. Prof. Peterson is occupying the guest's chair, more commonly reserved for Made In Chelsea stars plugging exercise books or dimwitted Aussie soap actors touting for work in the UK. Hard for the Professor to add much gravitas to a show when he has to sit alongside comedy Tory MP, Michael Fabricant.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi0y_xnFVCN/

Oh jesus.

why is he dressed like a steampunk guy who forgot his goggles

When in Rome...

just when i was confident i couldn’t think less of either peterson or mumford and sons...

This guy’s a ducking moron. Vice interview made it clear he’s propped himself up as some kind of disenfranchised activist - meanwhile he pulls 30 K a month. He’s making arguments out of thin air & it’s probably cuz his wallets shining. Just another deepak chopra

Sorry deep pockets chopra.

meanwhile he pulls 30 K a month

Think it's double this by now?

'terrible people having their photo taken with Jordan Peterson' could almost be its own thread

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdbmYCPV4AARLJG.jpg

kermit meets muppets: in which we are shown weirdos & jordan peterson

I accidentally watched one of this guy's youtube videos y/day when I followed a link called sth like "how to stop procrastinating" (hah)

the short version is that I did not learn how to stop procrastinating and he had some (prob deservedly) harsh words for chronic procrastinators esp when they turn into middle-aged fuckups with no self-control and no honesty with themselves about the extent of their fucking up (hi there, it me etc) so I felt bad about myself and then I realised that I was watching a Jordan Peterson video and that yes, it was that Jordan Peterson

so now I am p. excited to get my revenge by listening to an hour-long podcast about what a blowhard he is as some extra sweet, sweet procrastination. thanks!

YouTuber Contra Points did a good show about Jordan Peterson recently..

https://youtu.be/4LqZdkkBDas

sorry for mobile link weirdness. someone recommended her on a different thread about a week ago and from the videos I've see I find her to be really clear, really smart, and fucking hilarious.

My first long exposure to Peterson's, ah, thought:

Mr. Peterson illustrates his arguments with copious references to ancient myths — bringing up stories of witches, biblical allegories and ancient traditions. I ask why these old stories should guide us today.

“It makes sense that a witch lives in a swamp. Yeah,” he says. “Why?”

It’s a hard one.

“Right. That’s right. You don’t know. It’s because those things hang together at a very deep level. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense that an old king lives in a desiccated tower.”

But witches don’t exist, and they don’t live in swamps, I say.

“Yeah, they do. They do exist. They just don’t exist the way you think they exist. They certainly exist. You may say well dragons don’t exist. It’s, like, yes they do — the category predator and the category dragon are the same category. It absolutely exists. It’s a superordinate category. It exists absolutely more than anything else. In fact, it really exists. What exists is not obvious. You say, ‘Well, there’s no such thing as witches.’ Yeah, I know what you mean, but that isn’t what you think when you go see a movie about them. You can’t help but fall into these categories. There’s no escape from them.”

i kind of love it when handsome people are blessed with a ridiculous voice

Peterson working on his next magnum opus

https://frinkiac.com/meme/S04E19/1034699.jpg?b64lines=SSBBTSBOT1QKIEEgQ1JBQ0tQT1Qu

lmao Jordan Peterson has never felt oppression in his life

i kind of love it when handsome people are blessed with a ridiculous voice

yeah, and jordan peterson too

He always wears a suit. “I am a very serious person,” he often says.

You can almost hear Bowles wanting to add a "NARRATOR VOICE" joke here.

Narrator: "he is not a very serious person"

never thought i'd be nostalgic for the relatively harmless mental illness of dave sim but here we are i guess

Mr. Peterson stresses the importance of cleanliness, but honestly his office is a mess.

lol this asshole

never thought i'd be nostalgic for the relatively harmless mental illness of dave sim but here we are i guess

Eh, harmless only in that he's a lone nut who in the end only hurts himself, but you better believe that if he had his breakdown in 2018 there'd be an entire sub-culture there to enable him. And it'd be closer to incel shit than even Peterson.

holy shit @ that incel part, I totally get why this dude is popular among dumbasses now

like seriously is his whole shtick "hierarchies are necessary to society, except when it comes to women, who should be forced to marry undesirable men in order to protect their fragile male egos"

But aside from interventions that would redistribute sex, Mr. Peterson is staunchly against what he calls “equality of outcomes,” or efforts to equalize society. He usually calls them pathological or evil.

They misspelled "ekwoahlity of oatcomes"

It is hard not to laugh that Canadians speaking, true.

JBP to his art dealer: "thanks I hate it"

I've been extrapolating what the "rules" are according to dumb things I've read and assumed they were trite "have a firm handshake" garbage and, now that I've looked at the list on wikipedia... it's actually that dumb

he really ran out of steam halfway through

Oh come on, you've heard him say it.

xxp

somehow he neglected "wash your ass" in his twelve rules, which I feel is essential

The Muppets has gotten weird pic.twitter.com/fFLTQxD0ei

— PeterNorway (@classiclib3ral) March 30, 2018

lmao

the most offensive thing about the new jordan peterson piece is comparing him to a cat. rude to cats imo

apparently rule #12 is literally "pet a cat you see on the street"

my guess is that JP has a bunch of scratches on his arms

can we amend it to 'pet a cat you see in the zoo' and hope it starts thinning the herd of jbp stans a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PESYQ6TGwhQ

this is good but i hate that the claim about gender pronouns continues to be repeated without question. it is easily his first lie. https://t.co/JXUo0EeekW

— vicky mochama (@vmochama) May 18, 2018

somehow he neglected "wash your ass" in his twelve rules, which I feel is essential

what you need to understand is that throughout all human history, ritual, and myth, the asshole represents chaos while the prick represents order, no soap and washcloth can change that fundamental truth and i will not be silenced

pls link me to yr patreon, i'd like to sign up for a 45-minute personal counselling session on this topic

what you need to understand is that throughout all human history, ritual, and myth, the asshole represents chaos while the prick represents order, no soap and washcloth can change that fundamental truth and i will not be silenced

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, May 18, 2018 11:44 AM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

so if the prick is lawful evil and the asshole is chaotic evil what's neutarl

there is no neutral in Peterson's worldview, everything is binary

the taint is neutral, obv

Holy crap. I have never heard Jordan Peterson speak. I really thought that was some trippy Kermit the Frog for teaching children how to be good.

what you need to understand is that throughout all human history, ritual, and myth, the asshole represents chaos while the prick represents order, no soap and washcloth can change that fundamental truth and i will not be silenced

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, May 18, 2018 11:44 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you are dave sim and I claim my $5 CDN

I thought the Sim comparison was just kind of funny, but the more I think about it, there's a lot of depth to that juxtaposition

JP going on about myth, Dave claiming his deep reading of religious works helped him discover fundamental truths...

dave absolutely an ideological incel avant la lettre, too

Mr. Peterson illustrates his arguments with copious references to ancient myths — bringing up stories of witches, biblical allegories and ancient traditions. I ask why these old stories should guide us today.

“It makes sense that a witch lives in a swamp. Yeah,” he says. “Why?”

It’s a hard one.

“Right. That’s right. You don’t know. It’s because those things hang together at a very deep level. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense that an old king lives in a desiccated tower.”

But witches don’t exist, and they don’t live in swamps, I say.

“Yeah, they do. They do exist. They just don’t exist the way you think they exist. They certainly exist. You may say well dragons don’t exist. It’s, like, yes they do — the category predator and the category dragon are the same category. It absolutely exists. It’s a superordinate category. It exists absolutely more than anything else. In fact, it really exists. What exists is not obvious. You say, ‘Well, there’s no such thing as witches.’ Yeah, I know what you mean, but that isn’t what you think when you go see a movie about them. You can’t help but fall into these categories. There’s no escape from them.”

and once you get past this semantic cake dance you can admit hundreds and thousands of people were tried, tortured, and killed as witches, that we have documentation of all of this as historical fact, and could look at how the label was historically used and abused to kill people by church and state, how it ties into the long history of the legal dehumanization of women. but no, more fun to blabber about how you interpret popular imagination. in fact let's bring up dragons too, cos everyone loves it when you drop a rollplaying reference these days.

nothing unique in going on about myth and legend in the abstract pseudo philosophical vein. people eat that shit up. this guy is an intellectual slug. "look at how we categorize things! aren't we gaining insight." ofc it impressed the pseuds.

xxxxxp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MWi7MPQBKQ

Rule 10: Be precise in your speech

Rule 13: Wash a hat.

1. Stand up straight with your shoulders back
2. Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping
3. Make friends with people who want the best for you
4. Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today
5. Do not let your children do anything that makes you dislike them
6. Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world
7. Pursue what is meaningful (not what is expedient)
8. Tell the truth – or, at least, don't lie
9. Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don't
10. Be precise in your speech
11. Do not bother children when they are skateboarding
12. Pet a cat when you encounter one on the street

I'm going to paste the whole list because it's such a pleasant blend of real basic self-help common sense, vague bad advice, and shit I just need a couple more [looks out window for inspiration].

9. Assume that the person you are listening to might know something you don't

is this like a 12-steps thing, you have to do the earlier steps before you can do the later ones

at no point does Peterson ever seem to consider that his critics might know something he doesn’t

I've got new rules I count 'em

That list is like the opposite of Gen X and Bill Murray credos, other than leaving skateboarders alone. It's a correction.

somehow he neglected "wash your ass" in his twelve rules, which I feel is essential

― (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ (mh), Friday, May 18, 2018 3:04 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yX5DshF-Hs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0xDGXotGIE

I thought the Sim comparison was just kind of funny, but the more I think about it, there's a lot of depth to that juxtaposition

a year or so ago one of the commenters on the Cerebus blog that Sim doesn't run was trying to get him to link up with Peterson so that they could share wisdom and Cerebus' audience would grow by exposure to Peterson stans

Dave, of course, refused to countenance reading Peterson because as a representative of Canadian universities, which are poisoned by Marxist-feminist wrongthink, any connection to Sim would be rendered negative

(l-r) jordan peterson, dave sim

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/023/397/C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg

actually that’s not fair sim has undeniable talent despite the brain worms

Two days ago. PERFECT combination.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bi0y_xnFVCN/

xxxp that is so Dave

maybe uh Viktor Davis could collab with JP

between still not knowing who exactly this guy is, not hearing "Yanny-Laurel" and not seeing the Childish Gambino video, i feel i am winning the month of May.

does Peterson own only one suit?

jordan peterson loves spielberg

v important info

does Peterson own only one suit?

That's in the hidden rules, which you can only read with an invisible ink pen.

13. Own Only One Suit
14. Sigh a Lot, It Makes You Sound Sophisticated and World Weary
15. Saddo Dudes Can Make You Rich

16. Bitches, Man

made me lol

we should record ourselves while we're this high and listen to it later. i bet we sound like geniuses. pic.twitter.com/1KyY8F15Nz

— mark (@kept_simple) May 18, 2018

From the article, airlines are run by angry gay queens!?! What?

haven't had a chance to read the whole thing yet, but this is a+ journalism

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdgIHjbXUAEjmvh.jpg:small

Maybe he does deserve all that money for dealing with his followers.

Peterson asks me if I've seen The Avengers.

"Not Age of Ultron, but the first." I nod and open my mouth as if to say something, but he raises his finger and smiles when I stop to let him continue.

"The Hulk is perceived as chaos, but it's perfect order. Recall when he says his secret is he's always angry. Does that remind you of anyone else?" I think for a moment, but he doesn't give me time to answer.

"Man. One whose anger is mislabeled as chaos, when in actuality, in the film the anger is channeled into a valuable asset. Restoring proper order. To emasculate him is to rend him powerless, helpless, an ally of no value whatsoever."

He looks away. "Of course no one remembers the Hulk, they don't find the character interesting. Usually. But the myth of Hulk, it's rooted in the truth of man and his journey. You may pretend the myth does not exist, but its existence is real. We pretend the shrunken man of Dr. Banner is a restored order, but it's a shrunken order."

jesus fucking christ

I love that NYT writer refers to him as catlike. I bet he hates that.

he always seems like he's stretching his body too much in photos

definitely seems to have no idea how to stand, wear clothes, or decorate a house

Has he or anyone explained what he actually means by the phrase "enforced monogamy"?

I was reading somewhere someone defending it by saying he was talking anthropologically and not governmentally.

So like, if society effectively enforces a taboo against any person having multiple sexual partners, that will cause a de facto redistribution of booty so that every person will have one sexual partner, and never again will anyone go unlaid.

It's beautiful.

The Zero With A Thousand Faces

xp

can we just stop and appreciate a child being named LION ARAR

Haha yes that’s actually great

so we're not allowed to have more than one sexual partner contemporaneously, right? serial monogamy still mostly ok?

just trying to get my ducks in a row here in case they frog march me away

The Peterson stans are all over Twitter bitching at Nellie Bowles, especially about the "forced monogamy" thing. The point they keep making over and over is that Peterson's doesn't mean "governmentally enforced," he means "culturally enforced." But then they don't explain what they mean by that, and of course what that actually means is slut-shaming and scarlet letters. Peterson's concern that if women are all "allowed" to compete for "desirable males" there won't be enough women to go around is at root an argument for social control of women's sexual options, and there's no way around that.

Stonings and honor killings?

tbh his current audience also thinks that attractive male "chads" are stringing along multiple women and thus keeping them out of the supposed marketplace

What else could account for them not having dates?

mh, I understand your concerns. Personally, whenever I feel confused by some of Peterson's wisdom, I refer to the diagrams in Maps of Meaning and they generally clear up any lingering questions I have.

https://images.currentaffairs.org/2018/03/peterson5.jpg

okay i read it and mainly that guy is just . . . dumb

omar little, on the other hand, is fucking brilliant

(not that we didn't already know that)

Could "casual" sex necessitate state tyranny? The missing responsibility has to be enforced somehow...

— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) December 17, 2016

Not sure he's talking about strictly cultural monogamy-enforcement.

I keep thinking I'm looking at a Fake Peterson account

Hey he's just asking the question, he's not saying ...

I get the sense a lot of his stuff is like that. He's big on everyone taking responsibility except him.

really hitting me now how, message aside, this guy is living every frustrated mediocre career academic's midlife crisis fever dream.

you toiled for years teaching intro psych to hungover freshman but now......you fill auditoriums and sell out VIP tickets! you pull down $80K/month putting your lectures on youtube!

Maybe he does deserve all that money for dealing with his followers.

really hitting me now how, message aside, this guy is living every frustrated mediocre career academic's midlife crisis fever dream.

― call all destroyer, Friday, May 18, 2018 7:58 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you toiled for years teaching intro psych to hungover freshman but now......you fill auditoriums and sell out VIP tickets! you pull down $80K/month putting your lectures on youtube!

― call all destroyer, Friday, May 18, 2018 7:59 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It's especially aggravating that, not only did he achieve this with bogus pandering, but, as per the OP, he has used his newly acquired fame and influence to aggressively target those who are still toiling in the system, mostly in conditions that are less privileged than the ones he experienced (and experiences, now that he is comfortably tenured and still able to collect his six-figure paycheque while spending all his time on social media 'activism' that pulls in the really big money).

I get that some people aren't really cut out for casual sex, and few are in all situations.

But JP is definitely a dude who had his heart broken by someone who thought she was having a cool one-nighter and now is very sad and angry

really hitting me now how, message aside, this guy is living every frustrated mediocre career academic's midlife crisis fever dream.

― call all destroyer, Saturday, May 19, 2018 1:58 AM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you toiled for years teaching intro psych to hungover freshman but now......you fill auditoriums and sell out VIP tickets! you pull down $80K/month putting your lectures on youtube!

― call all destroyer, Saturday, May 19, 2018 1:59 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. and he secretly loves the soviet art, i think, because of the power fantasy. developmentall a teenager who found a snake oil formula.

oh for sure. i mean if you get off on authoritarianism to the extent he clearly does the soviet art isn't remotely surprising.

Swamp witches sound awesome, what is his problem.

also, soviet art (and film!) slaps

^OTM

Yeah there’s no way he doesn’t secretly love that art.

The Zero With A Thousand Faces

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Friday, 18 May 2018 22:01 (yesterday) Permalink

A+

i am not all that ashamed to admit that i trawled through that NYT article half-expecting to find the Age of Ultron paragraph

OK I 100% believed that Age of Ultron bit was real, and what's more, I stand by my claim that it's less outlandish than some of the actual quotes

enforced monogamy wld actually go down a treat if he just made the ceremonies extremely quaint and gave the sense that everyone involved was a good egg really

I have been working with a programmer who has volunteered his services and has already produced this, he has produced a website that enables people to enter text that will then classify the text as postmodern or non-postmodern and so you will be able to enter a course descriptions from universities – the course description, the professor’s name, the discipline, and the university. It will tell you the degree to which the description is postmodern and then you can decide for yourself whether you want to take that and become a social justice warrior, if that is what you think your education should be about, or if you should avoid that like the plague that it truly is … I’d like to knock enrollment in the postmodern disciplines down by 75% over the next five years. I think that I am thinking about it from the perspective of nonviolent warfare, it is that serious to me and that this would be equivalent to cutting off the supply chain.

wonder how this is going btw

pic.twitter.com/1XhL1ChF1x

— PeterNorway (@classiclib3ral) May 18, 2018

is there a reason this guy should be taken any more seriously than alfred rosenberg

I think back to that anecdote about him calling his dad and telling him about what an incredible epiphany he’s just had and how the incredible epiphany was probably nothing matters anyway I should just get rich off the fucking rubes in my sophomore classes by tossing off a book, like when Governor Eric Greitens decided to become a right-wing fuck because climbing the Democratic Party ladder was too hard

All these entitled shitbags get incredibly far on so little talent just because they wholeheartedly believe they deserve all the stuff, and the rest of us are too fucking polite to call them out in public and point out that they have no imperative other than feed me

I'm sure Jord feels compelled to protect democracy from the hellscape of people being addressed by their preferred pronouns and women being acknowledged as human

He’s a lapsed nihilist at best

The Zero With A Thousand Faces

Top marks

I just looked up something from when I first became aware of him last December. His patreon was at 40k then. Shitballs.

the ideotv episode on 12 rules is so good. he gets (unfavorably) compared to gorilla biscuits!

i can't believe he takes the 'louis tully does the 20 minute workout in 10' approach to watching THE SIMPSONS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI5cUhJoF8M

My partner doesn't use social media at all. Zero. So I like to show him some curated stuff every day without explaining it. I showed him the 12 rules and the kermit videos. We are dying laughing.

I’d be okay with getting relentlessly owned all the time for 40k/mo tbh

Where do I apply for this gig

He was bragging a while ago about how, with his Patreon and book income, he'd found a way to "monetize social justice warriors," which kind of leaves aside who exactly is being parted with their money.

There is something (only one thing) that confuses me about JP's whole deal. Most of the crowdfunding requests I've seen are made by people who actually don't have enough money to do a thing and are looking to raise funds from supporters, who get to be a part of it. Jordan Peterson's salary from U of T was over http://www.ontariosunshinelist.com/people/bsfytg60K last year. I don't think it's that expensive to make those videos or do the writing that he does. He's not moving to a part-time contract and taking a pay cut in order to do it. What exactly is the rationale for crowdsourcing this kind of money? Where do his donors think their money is going? Do the parties concerned see it purely as just remuneration for a great individual?

*over http://www.ontariosunshinelist.com/people/bsfytg60k

*over $160K: http://www.ontariosunshinelist.com/people/bsfytg

is there a reason this guy should be taken any more seriously than alfred rosenberg

― Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Saturday, May 19, 2018 9:58 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's the unconscious genius of JP and why he is so successful imo: you have as many fans calling themselves lobsters than people dunking on his hilariously wrong theories and talks because that's just so entertaining. There is that much space for content and discussion nowadays, to be taken seriously is not important really anymore. He just has to continue doing his thing and he will be hard to ignore.

Like I try my best to not care about him but when that thread is updated I get excited because boy he is an idiot.

all he has to do is apply his same schtick to anything of the moment, or anything that pops up in the news. That Avengers thing i did took two minutes, he can turn stuff like that into a half hour section of a speech with some purposeful obfuscating.

Sund4r I don’t think patreon is “crowdfunding” in quite the same way as something like Kickstarter or gofundme or whatever, people are paying their subscription for what they think is good content

Like the chapo bros don’t need a million a month or whatever to yuk it up in a living room and record it on a phone

160k canadian a year isn't life changing. His 80k a month patreon is. He reminds me so much (in age, sppearance, mannerisims) of a french psychoanalyst I know. They both really have the air of just being entirely over everyone's shit and making money where they can.

Well, I wasn't questioning why someone would want $80K/mo. I was wondering how he justifies crowdfunding that kind of money but wins's explanation makes sense. I misunderstood how Patreon works.

I mean, as much as this could ever "make sense".

He's not spending the money frivolously, you can be sure. He's a very serious man! He's very close to hitting this Patreon goal (paragraph breaks mine):

I am developing my plans and consulting with others to bring accredited online humanities education to as many people as possible around the world. My colleagues and I (who include excellent engineers, programmers, financiers and educators) want to take the humanities back from the corrupt postmodernists, and offer education of the highest possible quality everywhere at 1/10 the price or less.

We'd like to solve the accreditation problem as well, offering degree-equivalents with real psychometric value: best student in 10000; best in 1000; best in 100; best in 10; best in 5 (and no certification granted below that).

We want to automate and crowdsource the problem of teaching people to write. We want to set up the courses so that (1) the content itself is constantly graded and improved and (2) the same goes for the accreditation process. We'll start with the humanities, including history, generating something approximately a four year liberal arts college degree, teaching people how to be responsible, literate, effective, powerful, confident citizens. We want to conduct real research into how people learn (and how they learn fast) and use the results of that research to make education better.

It's high time for the humanities of the new millenium. However, it's a multiyear project, at best.

Well, hopefully he can get that revolutionary humanities program out before he dies from being so far up his own asshole he suffocates.

High on his own supply, for sure.

He misspelled millennium

So four out of five who pays him for that course would not even get a certificate?

May 1: I met today with my now three-person team to further develop the online university. We're employing a variety of statistical and computational strategies aimed at mapping out the most relevant domains of knowledge, as well as developing technology that will help people assess their knowledge in those domains, so they will be able to determine what they know and what they have yet to learn.... We hope to have something early stage but functional programmed by the end of the summer.

BA, Trump University
MA, Peterson School of Humanities

So he's basically creating

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO8x8eoU3L4

MA equivalent, Distinguished Lobster (best in 5), 45 Youtube-hours

We want to automate and crowdsource the problem of teaching people to write

lol what a genius nobody ever thought of this before success is bound to be swift

pic.twitter.com/rGCdOo8BuB

— Goth Ms. Frizzle (@spookperson) May 19, 2018

given the mess that he's published, i can't wait to see the mishmash of pseudo-metaphysical bullshit his disciples start creating!

conservatives under the age of 40 are all showing their asses as fervent white nationalists and dateless wonders who deserve their misery but insist on outsourcing it to everyone else

160k canadian a year isn't life changing.

this is charming and if anybody knows of a job going for that kind of money i promise them it will change my life pretty radically

lol yeah

yeah but the grasping socialists take three-quarters of it and then you're left with like $20 american (j/k)

wiki says he's been married for almost 30 years, curious how this extended brush with chaos has affected his deeply serious thought

xpost He's nearer retirement and a full professor. He should be making that amount to be comfortable.

mookie, there is a photoseries of him and his family at home online.

joke’s on him, he never looks comfortable

He looks pretty comfy in those steampunkish masks he has.

According to the internet, his 26-year-old daughter is "the global poster girl for a carnivorous, ketogenic lifestyle." She "eats meat and salt only," and credits it for her ability to overcome debilitating depression, ezcema, and the childhood rheumatoid arthritis that necessitated multiple joint replacements.

god it's gonna be so great when he gets divorced

The daughter comes across as a perfectly nice person, with some quackish views but I'm glad they've helped her! Apparently Dad named her after Mikhail Gorbachev.

https://imgur.com/UH23a3Rl.png

WTF is that gender-neutral pronoun doing there?

triggering the libs

160k canadian a year isn't life changing

Spoken like someone with whom I wouldn't mind trading socioeconomic places.

I just figured out this was a quote from someone on here and LOOOOOOOOL whut

$125K USD per year is not that fucking special of a household income in coastal cities, certainly not for a dude his age, and certainly not in the same order of magnitude as almost $10M USD which is what his Patreon donors are apparently providing him.

otm. and he secretly loves the soviet art, i think, because of the power fantasy. developmentall a teenager who found a snake oil formula.

wiki says he's been married for almost 30 years, curious how this extended brush with chaos has affected his deeply serious thought

Apparently Dad named her after Mikhail Gorbachev.

could he actually be a grifter, getting rich pretending to hate the thing he's always been? I know that's not at all a thing for older white guys to be doing these days, but

xpost tombot otm. I was about to look up what even first year associates make because I know 125k is definitely under. He has a phD, is ~55, gets published lives in Toronto. This is a normal fucking salary (if not under what I thought he would make).

A 'normal fucking salary' can change your life in some quarters.

fine fine fine for some people on this board it would change their lives, but for JP, who is a lifelong white male academic at elite universities, this is a normal trajectory of salary for him.

'life-changing' is perhaps a poor phrase, but yeah that money isn't going to take you terribly far in toronto

Yeah, I was using it in relation to Peterson himself, I didn't realize so many people would take it personally.

Yerac just forgot to discuss the context of the salary, let's calm down.

It's just the top 5th percentile in Canada, nothing special.

Snark aside, I take your point, Yerac.

Ha, and I was all looking up ivy league salaries for professors (in the approximate 200k range).

“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”

Mr. Peterson does not pause when he says this. Enforced monogamy is, to him, simply a rational solution. Otherwise women will all only go for the most high-status men, he explains, and that couldn’t make either gender happy in the end.

“Half the men fail,” he says, meaning that they don’t procreate. “And no one cares about the men who fail.”

There might arguably be something of a credible point here with regards to actually polygamous societies: https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-link-between-polygamy-and-war . I don't know how it would apply to ours, though.

And yeah, that salary would not be a life-changer within the context of Peterson's life, where he gets to publicly contemplate cultural warfare against the industry that employs him, but it would be in mine, which relates to my original point.

Well that first assumption he makes is false, the terrorist was angry at women. From here on out his idea crumbles, not that the original one makes sense.

Also thanks for the link Sund4r.

Overall, polygamy is in retreat. However, its supporters are fighting to preserve or even extend it. Two-fifths of Kazakhstanis want to re-legalise the practice (it was banned by the Bolsheviks). In 2008 they were thwarted, at least temporarily, when a female MP amended a pro-polygamy bill to say that polyandry—the taking of multiple hubands—would be allowed as well; Muslim greybeards balked at that.

I want to know more about that Kazakh female MP.

I love democracies where 2/5ths of the population get to decide what the law should be.

quick somebody make a lazy joke as if I don’t know where I fucking live

Meanwhile, he has raised his speaking fee from $15,000 in 2017 to $35,000 in 2018, according to the "Bring Jordan Peterson To Skidmore" Gofundme page.

Aghhh, while researching that I accidentally clicked on a video of him speaking.

speaking fees are the most horseshit thing in modern society

after Jordan Peterson

I don’t think any of this guy’s references to “monogamy” are in contrast to actual polygamist societies

Currently hate myself because I checked this out by watching a video clip of his with “polygamy” in the title and, as expected, he immediately derailed to “pair bonding” and started talking about things I’d associate with promiscuity or people who use “poly”as an identifier. As far as I know, societies with structured polygamy tend to frown upon casual sex, but one of the first things he did was to go on a mini-rant about how he doesn’t believe in casual sex.

He’s basically got the same “only good sex is within marriage” view as mainline christianity and

Well, hopefully he can get that revolutionary humanities program out before he dies from being so far up his own asshole he suffocates.

People out here really think “intellectual” means “is smart,” read some gramsci bro

— Shuja Haider (@shujaxhaider) May 11, 2018

[reads three pages of Gramsci] more intellectuals should try to shop organic

— Roger Bellin (@rogerbellin) May 11, 2018

[looks up from upside-down copy of prison notebooks] today’s intellectuals are full of pesticides

— Shuja Haider (@shujaxhaider) May 11, 2018

ah, Gramsci… my favorite of his writings is the Modern Prince pic.twitter.com/N2c6duAQIG

— Roger Bellin (@rogerbellin) May 11, 2018

It seems like Peterson and Douthat and their ilk look at the post-birth control world and say "We have birth control now, but it seems to have introduced some new societal problems, so let's just go back in time and pretend birth control doesn't exist." When in fact those pre-birth control world social mores were not some timeless ideal, they were just approaches to dealing with sex and mating in a time where there was no birth control. Today we have birth control, so it makes no sense to use pre-birth-control structures as a way of solving contemporary problems.

I mean I'm pretty pro-monogamy on the whole, but I don't think anyone has produced clearcut evidence that "Have a period of exploration and then settle down" is an inferior system to arranged marriages or remain celibate until marriage.

those pre-birth control world social mores were not some timeless ideal

true that, but in order to impose them as a societal norm in those times, they were often invoked as the strictures of a divine will, making them far more difficult to alter later on, when that divine power is still worshipped.

early on in history god's will was seen as more whimsical and changeable, more human-like and irrational, but when xtianity merged with Neo-Platonism, god slowly ossified into the monolithic monster we know today.

As Vir Das noted, it was also more common for people (especially girls) to get married as young teenagers at that time so the proscription on sex before marriage could have also served another social function.

Weird that Jordan Peterson's whole thing is lobsters, but he never suggests making men less violent by closing their hands with rubber bands

— rachel jane andelman 🔥 (@rajandelman) May 20, 2018

it has come to my attention that his fans may be concerned about actual polygamy in north america and now I am left wondering how many actual polygamists they think there are

man have you logged on to ok cupid lately

imo they are all on okcupid or in rural Utah

although I guess JP is in Toronto so the copious poly goths in the area might be throwing off his gauge

lol

re: okc there is a lot of polyamory but are you really encountering many polygamists?

no

BUT

i bet a lot of the polyamorists are closeted polygamists just waiting to spring the big news on their first fun 'encounter'

polygamists' favourite hangout in canada is in b0un7ifu1, british columbia guys

sorry

there was a documentary on them like 15 years ago on canadian tv (for some reason this makes me feel old)

might've been this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F474fXIyuls

haven't watched it since, but at the time i remember feeling like watching and hearing the women of that town talk was one of the saddest things ever

wiki says he's been married for almost 30 years, curious how this extended brush with chaos has affected his deeply serious thought

― mookieproof

just caught up on this thread and this post leveled lmao

Jeet Heer has some thoughts.

Peterson extolls classic Disney movies like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs as upholding primordial gender roles, but objects to Frozen for violating those norms. “It might be objected (as it was, with Disney’s more recent and deeply propagandistic Frozen) that a woman does not need a man to rescue her,” Peterson writes in 12 Rules of Life. “That may be true, and it may not. It may be that only the woman who wants (or has) a child needs a man to rescue her—or at least to support and aid her. In any case, it is certain that a woman needs consciousness to be rescued, and, as noted above, consciousness is symbolically masculine and has been since the beginning of time (in the guise of both order and of the Logos, the mediating principle).”

The argument here is that Frozen is propaganda because it violates mythical tropes that have existed since “the beginning of time.” But are myths really so unwavering and static?

As it happens, there was another Canadian scholar who taught, as Peterson does, at the University of Toronto, who made it his life work to argue against this assumption. Like Peterson, Northrop Frye, who flourished as a scholar from the 1940s until his death in 1991, wrote cultural analysis that was shaped by the works of Jung, Eliade and Campbell. (Someday we’ll have a cultural history explaining why Jung is so popular in Canada. The Swiss psychologist’s fingerprints can also be seen in the works of novelists like Robertson Davies and Margaret Atwood as well as the cartoonist Dave Sim.) But Frye was critical of the “latent conservatism” of these mythologists.

https://newrepublic.com/article/148473/jordan-petersons-tired-old-myths

lord the world would be so sweet if all the petersonites were fryvians

consciousness is symbolically masculine and has been since the beginning of time

I was recently reading Augustine and he says explicitly the opposite. I guess Augustine was brainwashed by SJWs!

If a feminist scholar said that the philosophy of consciousness has been tainted by patriarchal thinking and we need to overthrow the Cartesian paradigm, these guys would say that was insane and that philosophy is a neutral science. But saying it's symbolically masculine so you can attack Frozen, and apparently it's the smartest idea ever.

The 'argument by appeal to prejudice' has always been one of the most popular and successful rhetorical strategies because it does not require verifiable facts or attempt to change anyone's mind. It's dead easy and works a treat.

i skimmed that NYT piece and mygodhowunimportant

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/jordan-petersons-now-thats-what-i-call-music

ha

i'd be surprised if jord even liked music

he talks about music being a model for a harmonious mode of being all the time.

His Twitter av is an artwork he made called "the meaning of music"

lol

that's some vivaldi style thinking

tbh I actually submitted a Peterson thing to McSweeneys over the weekend too (which I don't think I've done since 2003), but they wrote back and said "We've already got one."

So here it is because I have nothing else to do with it.

JORDAN PETERSON'S 12 RULES FOR HANGING AT THE INDIE ROCK SHOW

1.Stand Up Straight With Your Shoulders Back
This tells everybody that even though you are in this den of slouchy betas and bicurious girls with purple hair, you are not of this den. You are only here because your friend Matt needed a ride and also it’s possible Megyn might show up.

2.Treat Yourself Like Someone You Are Responsible for Helping
For example, buy yourself a beer. Not PBR because you’re not a loser hipster with no money like all these cucks. Jesus, they don’t have Blue Moon? Fine, get a Sierra Nevada.

3.Make Friends With People Who Want the Best for You
If only. Everyone here obviously hates actual men. Where’s Megyn?

4.Compare Yourself to Who You Were Yesterday, Not to Who Someone Else Is Today
Especially not that douchebag over there with the beard and the vintage Pavement T-shirt who’s got himself surrounded by a practical coven of emasculators with lip piercings and … shit, is that Megyn? Oh. No, it's not.

5.Do Not Let Your Children Do Anything That Makes You Dislike Them
Like cut their hair so short that you can’t tell from the back if they’re a boy or a girl, because that’s really confusing when you’re waiting for the bathrooms and the hallway’s dark and smelly like it is in this place, and those chicks probably laughed at you or thought you were transitioning or something when you got in the wrong line.

6.Set Your House in Perfect Order Before You Criticize the World
Seriously, they have a poster on the wall left over from a Standing Rock benefit last year. Where do they think their electricity’s coming from? Fossil fuel, baby. Hypocrites.

7.Pursue What Is Meaningful (Not What Is Expedient)
Megyn is definitely not expedient. She hasn’t responded to a Facebook message in months and then you realized you weren’t even Facebook friends with her anymore. Probably she got hacked. She’s so smart, though. She was the only other person in the community college English class who’d heard of Ayn Rand. OK, she rolled her eyes, but turns out she hadn’t actually read any, she just needs time and the right guy. No wonder she hasn’t found him in this cesspool of gender dysfunction. Technically she has a boyfriend, but come on. When you were Facebook friends you saw a picture of him wearing one of those stupid pink hats.

8.Tell the Truth – or, at Least, Don't Lie
It was not a lie when you told Matt you didn’t hate this band. You say, “I don’t hate it” a lot, it shows that that’s high praise from a discerning man. You don’t hate this band. You’ve never heard of this band. They probably suck.

9.Assume That the Person You Are Listening to Might Know Something You Don't
The bartender with the stringy beard probably knows if Megyn’s been here tonight, it seems like everybody here knows everyone. Right now you’re listening to him tell the dykey girl in the tuxedo jacket about his new bike. He means a bicycle, not a motorcycle. Of course. When you get his attention you will get another Sierra Nevada and ask about Megyn, but you’ve been standing here for five minutes clearly holding a $20 and he hasn’t seen you yet even though you are literally right in front of him.

10.Be Precise in Your Speech
“Do you only serve shemales and lesbians or something?” It’s hard to see how the bartender misunderstood that as some kind of hate speech, all you wanted was a goddam beer. And to ask about Megyn. You hadn’t even noticed that big guy by the door until he grabbed you and threw you out.

11. Do Not Bother Children When They’re Skateboarding
Asshole punk almost ran you over. And the girl on the board behind him was Megyn but you didn’t realize it until she shouted “Watch where you’re going dipshit” at you.

12. Pet a Cat When You Encounter One on the Street
Did Matt even see you get thrown out? The hell with it, he can Uber. Oh hey, look there. Here, kitty. C’mere. It’s OK. No, don’t be scared. Here, let me … OUCH FUCK! Goddam it. Bitch!

yours is better tipsy

i'd be surprised if jord even liked music

He seems to like Mumford & Sons so it's up for debate.

a+

yours is better tipsy

co-sign!

Thx!

I didn't know Something Awful was still a thing, but anyway, not as funny as tipsy's: http://www.somethingawful.com/news/jordan-peterson-interview/

SA forums are still kinda active

Courtesy of reddit:

https://i.redditmedia.com/2npymQ_HC995O7T4U2XE9akPHVIYYNWM-RWZ7kUYcSA.jpg?s=c4d4588013469fe6e47a658c8ecacd3c

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uSEZt9ahE7M/WrBEuW4Ji-I/AAAAAAAAHZ8/VUSS4ZJlucwP2guKGoaUuZgvHCO4rM-QwCLcBGAs/s1600/JP%2Bout%2Bof%2Bcontext%2Bsmaller.jpg

Peterson's persona can only be described as "serious." "I have not smiled in over four decades," he admits.

looool

As several people have already pointed out, the only real upside to the raft of profiles - besides the lols - is that they all make clear he is absolutely, pointlessly miserable

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/63NG7LbBRA4/hqdefault.jpg

"I have not smiled in over four decades,"

now i can certainly say that i have

the reddit table thing is ridiculously otm

he looks like Billie Joe Armstrong circa Dookie in that pic

he looks so young there

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/c/ce/Baby_Kermit_2018.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/272?cb=20180325004718

He looks like he should've been in Hal Hartley films in that pic.

I actually looked up what music he likes one time, which is definitely evidence that I spend more time thinking about him than he deserves. Although I also like all the individual artists he lists, I'm pretty sure Allan Bloom or Roger Scruton would be horrified by the plebeian taste of their degenerate heir: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/615e3z/i_am_dr_jordan_b_peterson_u_of_t_professor/dfbv9wj/

yours is better tipsy

OTM

i lol'd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=4LqZdkkBDas

JORDAN PETERSON: “I like to eat dandruff.”
EVERYONE: “Eww... why do you... that’s just gross.”
PETERSON FANS: “Look, don’t misconstrue his words, he was obviously speaking figuratively.”
JP: (chewing mouthful of dandruff) “mmm, it tastes like ancient myths.”

— Richard Feren (@RichardFeren) May 22, 2018

that sounds like a ren and stimpy skit

Jordan Peterson is the funniest current working comedian afaic

thankfully managed to steer clear of all but the most peripheral detail about this man. but this interview by Philip Dodd is exhilarating listening.

it exposes his status as a public thinker as a complete sham - what he thinks doesn’t stand up to any sort of rigour. he has no framework of belief that he is able to articulate. it also insistently shows just how parochial, tiny even, his gripe is. v small and limited foundations for extraordinarily wide and blurry claims. finally it shows a mendacity in his method of thinking. when painted into corners he relies on words like “proper” (as in where he says that he’s not against the communal but the “proper relationship of the communal to the individual”), or where he talks about “harmony” or the emphatically ludicrous evasions of the conversation on chaos.

what a strange and embarrassing man. he clearly hasn’t had to face much intelligent questioning before either as his response is to get angry and pass off glib undefined statements as incontrovertible fact.

dodd does need to stop saying “forgive me” tho.

i mean there’s no philosophy or weltanschaung here. he’s just pissed off that he got twitted by the universities once. what a poverty of thought.

just how parochial, tiny even, his gripe is. v small and limited foundations for extraordinarily wide and blurry claims.

this is Bigotry 101 iirc

universities a canadian university.

/just how parochial, tiny even, his gripe is. v small and limited foundations for extraordinarily wide and blurry claims./

this is Bigotry 101 iirc

a hell of a lot of prejudicial "theory" seems to stem from the equivalent of "i had one of them...in the back of me cab once"

he also has the two classic “tells” - all religion and concepts are essentialised and made fungible or interchangeable, so you can make wild all-encompassing claims, and he has one or two theorists which he cites all the time to support himself “scientifically”. oh yeah a third - making out what you are saying is objective fact and science all the time. tho this here is lol IVE STUDIED IT IVE STUDIED IT.

there’s also a great bit where dodd says “i read your book very carefully” or something and JBP says irritably or grimly “it certainly seems that way”.

the temerity of close-reading an "academic" book

quite. also, dodd “your book isn’t scholarly is it? it’s about what’s inside you, belief”, to which, fairly enough JBP assents, but that does rather give the lie to his whole schtick.

He's indefatigable:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8m21kw/i_am_dr_jordan_b_peterson_u_of_t_professor/

i understand some of those words.

what a strange and embarrassing man. he clearly hasn’t had to face much intelligent questioning before either as his response is to get angry and pass off glib undefined statements as incontrovertible fact.

Which ILXor are you talking about again?

feeling v attacked rn

He's indefatigable:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/8m21kw/i_am_dr_jordan_b_peterson_u_of_t_professor🕸/

ex colleague takes issue

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/2018/05/25/i-was-jordan-petersons-strongest-supporter-now-i-think-hes-dangerous.html

there have been many pieces that have taken him to task, and this might be the best

It's good, though the diagrams people have shared from Maps of Meaning make me wonder why so many in academic circles thought his work was so interesting/worthy in the first place.

I suppose it's a classic example of someone with a forceful/assertive approach in person steamrolling what would seem to an outsider to be obvious limitations.

Wow @ that piece

The AMA is quite the spectacle, it's full of fans answering lengthy texts in lieu of Peterson himself but in the stylings of the guru + people asking for advice for depression or lack of motivation (I have no friends, can't finish my projects, addictions, PTSD) + Peterson and the usual bullshit rhetoric. There is element of sadness that I can't quite shake, about how those fans kinda fight for his attention. Like he is the captain of some sort of lost soul ship just veering towards absolutely nowhere constructive for these people. Somehow, I suppose that if it were 6 years ago at the height of my depression, maybe I would have fallen in this vibe. My parents were very supportive and raised me with an unshakable faith in feminism so I don't quite believe it, after 2 weeks at the hospital the psychiatrist recommended I read The Game and I flat out refused. But really back then I needed a mentor figure at the time, someone to tell me that I wasn't alone, that I was part of something bigger and that this was the direction to go. He is so very effective at doing that right now, and it is so dangerous because that direction he is pointing out at is a flat out refusal to practice any sort of compassion or understanding.

I know I'm not bringing anything fresh at the table but I needed to express that. The AMA bit really got me from 'shitty media figure who says dumb stuff all the time' to understanding how easy it is for a intolerant figure to become a dominant force to vulnerable people, well not understanding it, but feeling it.

Gonna listen to some Carly Rae now.

after 2 weeks at the hospital the psychiatrist recommended I read The Game

seriously? what a weird recommendation.

fire that psychiatrist imo

unless hospital means mtv and psychiatrist was Mystery

if my psychiatrist recommended i listen to the queen album "the game" i probably would, although i fail to understand why anybody would think that album is as good as "jazz".

no, actually, i've had therapists recommend music to me and my reaction is usually "really, that sounds really good, i'll have to check that out", and then i never do. i did read "the magicians" at the urging of a therapist and thought it was fucking awful, though.

It were a therapist who turned me on to Camus

i've had therapists recommend music to me and my reaction is usually "really, that sounds really good, i'll have to check that out", and then i never do

think this is my stock response to anybody recommending anything to me

Me too and it always makes me feel like a terrible person

i have too many other things to feel like a terrible person about. also, whenever i make an exception i wind up regretting it. seriously, "the magicians" was fucking awful.

i'm all for people enthusing to me about things they love but i've got a theoretical backlog of things i wanna see/read/hear so long that i really can't be bothered giving somebody else cuts

A guy I know once recommended me some Brazilian singer. When I met him again a few years later he asked me if I had checked her out. And of course I hadn't. I haven't seen him for a few years now yet again, and now I fear running into him, which would mean I would have to admit that no I haven't checked her out. I have also forgotten her name, so I can't even listen to her out of duty.

eh just lie to him

My former therapist recommended "A Cyborg Manifesto", a book by Jessica Benjamin about recognition theory, and "The Night Porter"

That Toronto Star article is v interesting. I've started watching some of JP's lectures recently because he keeps popping up-- he really seems like a person trying to negotiate some kind of massive internal trauma.

That piece in the Star is A+. My only gripe is his gripe with the notion that kids aren't innately good – I thought that went without saying?

that's a victorian-era idea (that i have some fondness for).

the picture in that piece of the cop standing under the poster of JP making a stern big brother face is v good. half expected the caption to be "need i say more"

Good piece but long, very long.

preferred JP attack remains the mishra piece; there's a reason that's the one that hit him

Yeah, the Mishra piece is still the most precise and with the best perspective. The Current Affairs one is the funniest and the NYT interview the most self-incriminating. This is kinda the scariest. I don't get smart people who are still on board the JP-train.

https://media.giphy.com/media/1hM7SrWdFy2iRDcvgq/giphy.gif

My current psychiatrist recommended a bunch of books to be, because she'f previously been a researcher, and the claim is that people with bipolar disorder have less frequent and less severe episodes if they read about it. Not sure what the mechanism is supposed to be.

“You don’t understand. I am willing to lose everything, my home, my job etc., because I believe in this.” And then he said, with the intensity he is now famous for, “Bernie. Tammy had a dream, and sometimes her dreams are prophetic. She dreamed that it was five minutes to midnight.”

As a clinical psychologist, it's always important to trust things that are "sometimes" prophetic, and can mean whatever you want them to mean.

Canadaland has a scoop. I don't think it's all that damning/damaging on its own, but it definitely seems to be a tip-of-the-iceberg situation.

Jordan Peterson, the public figure, often talks about the patients of Jordan Peterson, the clinical psychologist. While he doesn’t name them, he frequently tells their stories and cites their issues, both to illustrate examples of the social ills he opposes, and as evidence of his success in helping people. (In his book, he notes that he has disguised details of their identity. Elsewhere, he does not say this.) By Peterson’s own description, his life as a public figure became “too hectic” for him to continue providing private counselling because he was worried he could “drift” or “make mistakes.” Ultimately, his public role won out, and Peterson left his private practice and stopped seeing patients.

Before he did, in the months when his old and new lives overlapped, one patient believes he did her more harm than good. Because of this, Samantha filed a misconduct complaint with the CPO that led to the regulatory body expressing “concerns” over a number of Peterson’s practices.

http://www.canadalandshow.com/how-jordan-petersons-fame-affected-his-private-practice/

i'm shocked - shocked! - that peterson is a shitty counsellor

Shortly before Jordan Peterson decided he couldn’t be both a media personality and a practicing psychologist at the same time, he cancelled sessions with patients, later claiming illness, while maintaining an appointment to appear on television; he responded to messages from patients with auto-reply emails which brought up the challenges of his burgeoning fame, directing recipients to send argumentative emails to his ideological opponents; he employed his wife to sort through emails from patients without first asking for their consent; he shared potentially identifying information about patients with other patients; and he twice visited the restaurant where Samantha worked, returning after she had implored him not to, having seemingly forgotten that she worked there.

the whole story is awful tbh

"he responded to messages from patients with auto-reply emails which brought up the challenges of his burgeoning fame, directing recipients to send argumentative emails to his ideological opponents"

cult leaders are the fuckin worst

it seems insanely unprofessional to have client email intermingled with his personal crap

he twice visited the restaurant where Samantha worked, returning after she had implored him not to, having seemingly forgotten that she worked there.

yeah this definitely seems like a tip of the iceberg situation

actually no this is more like an iceberg that is the tip of a bunch of other icebergs

“Dr. Peterson,” the panel wrote, “believed that he appropriately dealt with the transference issue by discussing transference and encouraging (Samantha) to play out the fantasy scenario in her imagination, but to embed that in an imaginative dramatization of all the real-world consequences that would ensue.”

Play out your fantasies about me in your imagination. If you can work in a dragon and it is eating my ideological opponents, that will be especially therapeutic.

oh god

https://i.redditmedia.com/vv022HpVc2ffrhcXjabYKI1O2LONtl8S8t6sB5XEInY.jpg?w=750&s=7f5e3f6d5b5f3941c255c313bd79faa7

Yeah, I read about that. A right wing pressure group invites him to speak - i think he still tries to avoid describing himself as right wing or conservative. Not good for the cash flow, I guess.

That cannot be real. That is fucking hilarious

everything toilet paper usa does is a hilarious self-own, this is entirely in keeping with their unblemished track record of idiocy

lmao

Also coming in lobster piss flavor. pic.twitter.com/Lf9CnFII1f

— ALTON⚙️🔧 (@8ALTON8) June 2, 2018

the font in that tpusa ad is apparently... lobster

https://www.dafont.com/lobster.font

incredible

Mark Millar tweeted support for JBP's stance on Elmo and now I have to go jump off a roof

mark millar the awful comics guy?

yes

afraid to ask what his stance on Elmo is??

he is anti-elmo, thinks he is a disgrace to the legacy of jim henson or some such nonsense (elmo was introduced before henson's death)

this is in his bestselling book apparently

wtf I love Elmo. fuck you Jordan

these fuckos would hate Grover if they remembered he exists

for a guy who supposedly wants young men to reclaim their rugged masculinity, he sure does spend a lot of time railing against characters from kids' entertainment

okay, I'll bite: what's wrong with Elmo

he panders to the weaknesses of the child. no child who loves the unconditional fawning of the red muppet will ever be self-sufficient, let alone a man

I know what's going on here. There's obviously a sinister kermit-spiracy to deprive other muppets of the spotlight

https://thumbs.mic.com/ODY3ZjA1YjYzMyMvSy1OTzdXWDZOUUZmN1MwTzQxRzB6RXZCRm5zPS81Nng1OjEyNzB4NjM1LzE2MDB4OTAwL2ZpbHRlcnM6Zm9ybWF0KGpwZWcpOnF1YWxpdHkoODApL2h0dHBzOi8vczMuYW1hem9uYXdzLmNvbS9wb2xpY3ltaWMtaW1hZ2VzL2oycWxlcnA5ZTFjc2lkdjd3OWN3eWllcGx3Y2tkeDg1dHI5dGh2djE0NmtzdmZkc2R5bGFtMnlncnlkZ2lvenguanBn.jpg

wtf I love Elmo. fuck you Jordan

― flappy bird, Monday, June 4, 2018 7:28 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hard agree

i saw the jp book sitting on an unoccupied table in a coffee shop the other morning while i was waiting in line. i scowled but was curious what the dude who returned to the table would look like. it was a 60-something year old woman.

Noooooooo

maybe her room is messy

elmo is grover for babies

They found that although the show was produced for 3-to-5-year-olds, children began watching it at a younger age. As a result, the target age for Sesame Street shifted downward, from 4 years to 3 years.

hmm yeah

wasn't there an anti-Elmo gawker post a while back? It was a reasonable argument I thought. Maybe there's something to this Peterson guy.

I have to admit I hate Elmo for talking down to kids, but I dont want to be on Petersens side on that regard ugh.

no I'm not particularly fond of him either but who gives a shit?

Shouldn't Peterson hate everything Jim Henson stands for, anyway? Statist softie multiculturalism.

you'd think so, but peterson's not really about following up on the logical endpoints of his various gripes about pop culture

Peterson seems like he'd identify with Sam the Eagle, solemnly engaged in a long, thankless struggle against the forces of degeneracy

Mark Millar is the same age as me why the fuck do these wankers even have an opinion on Sesame Street?

new board description ..etc.

mark millar is a cretin

well, yeah

even more of a cretin that i’d imagined if he’s on the same page as jordan peterson, too

Ugh, a friend let me know that Peterson is a Simpsons fan:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/De30A80UcAAB8pq.jpg:large

'his thoughtless slut of a mother'

this fuckin' guy

He doesn't even know Uter's name, he's not much of a fan

also: women want to be bullied, amirite ladies

this fuckin' guy

Also pretty sure the bully hierarchy is Kearney > Nelson > Jimbo

Christ he writes like a fucking mediocre undergrad bullshitting his way through a term paper.

I guess this explains all the rage I see directed at cartoon 8 year old Lisa?

xp https://frinkiac.com/meme/S09E14/198614.jpg?b64lines=SU4gQ09OQ0xVU0lPTiwgTElCWUEgSVMgQQogTEFORCBPRiBDT05UUkFTVFMuIApUSEFOSyBZT1Uu

*reschedules other patients, sits down, opens notebook, clicks pen*

So Jordan, tell me why your line of thought went from the elementary school age Lisa Simpson directly to 50 Shades Of Grey.

oh my god he is such a fucking dipshit

The FICTIONAL FUCKING CHARACTER Lisa likes Nelson because she finds out that he has a tender and sensitive side to him, that he's the child of neglect, not because he's brutish. WTF does this have to do with the popularity in the real world of 50 Shades of Grey you dumb fuck? DFKJSDFLKSDJFLKDSJFSDF

women liked to be dominated, an example of this is when Lisa liked Nelson the bully in one episode of the Simpsons. I am a brain genius

Another important character of note is the self-made mogul Hank Scorpio, whose vision has transformed the town in which his company’s headquarters is located into a safe, secure paradise (a paradise only undone by government interference.) The streets are clean, homelessness has been eliminated, and under the benevolent yet firm guidance of Scorpio, Homer flourishes. He earns Scorpio’s respect so much that when he decides to resign (because of Marge’s shrill resistance to domestic ease, Lisa’s weak resistance to allergies, and Bart’s resistance to his perhaps correct diagnosis as a special needs child), Scorpio not only understands but subsequently gifts him with that most masculine of imprimaturs: an NFL team. Most interestingly, the team Homer is handed is the Denver Broncos, a squad which was regarded as the perpetual losers of the league. Homer initially regards the gift as a disappoint but, as history showed and as perhaps Scorpio was whispering to Homer via this franchise: “every loser wins eventually.”

lmao liz

xp christ almighty, talk about missing the point

(a paradise only undone by government interference.)

Love that authoritarianism!

hell yeah our boy is building his international profile

Large Saudi social media account cites "world famous psychologist" Jordan Peterson to justify gender segregation. Peterson is crossing the language barrier, inspiring misogynists the world over. https://t.co/I2I4StcibG

— İyad el-Baghdadi | إياد البغدادي (@iyad_elbaghdadi) June 9, 2018

“every loser wins eventually.” lol

love to live in a world where adults take this guy Very Seriously

wait the hank scorpio bit is a real quote?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T47opnLyFw

omfg

wait the hank scorpio bit is a real quote?

No! But maybe it’s real in Peterson’s terms...

Obv the simpsons bit that Peterson calls to mind is Albert Brooks’s charlatan who calls Bart “rudiger” and doesn’t realise he’s being owned by an 8-year-old but who still manages to bluff his way to a sizeable following

You see, if Superintendent Chalmers was forced; policed by an authoritarian government, perhaps, into referring to Skinner's disastrous meal as "steamed hams", it would result in a moment of cognitive dissonance so profound that any competent society would demand his immediate resignation from the school system. Furthermore, by asking to see the "aurora borealis",

it's over for JP

How had Jordan Peterson never heard this extremely basic counter argument to his position before pic.twitter.com/gTdLm166Hj

— PeterNorway (@classiclib3ral) June 21, 2018

what a chump

as i just said on twitter in response to that tweet, aside from the fact it’s p embarrassing he’s treated as a celebrity thinker and really we should just let him get back to being angry about the politics on his particular campus, his entire thinking is bamboozled by the civil rights movement.

Not sure it's bambzooled, as such - he just can't admit in public, at this stage, he would have opposed the civil rights movement.

That's true, but one thing I've wondered, do you think he can admit it to himself? Not that it's important, just wondering.

props to Jim Jeffries for scoring the first (long, LONG overdue) clean hit on this asshole on television (that I've seen, anyway)

jim jefferies DESTROYS jordan peterson with pure logic

I mean it should really happen every time he gets interviewed but for some reason his dope-a-dope act trips people up every damn time

On an incredibly long elevator ride this morning, wedged next to a guy with bad posture and loud earbuds listening to, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, a muppet lecture.

you have to watch another six JP videos to understand that MORALLY it's right to make people bake cakes but MORALLY you did wrong by forcing someone to do something

there's no way to pin down a specific ideology across the board because his magic flow charts support whatever point you want to make in the minute. if you contradict yourself later, you are correct now but were still correct then. flawless logic.

i guess that's why jefferies' approach is so successful - don't give him the chance to retreat into circular bullshit, just ask very basic questions about what he allegedly believes and he'll trip himself up in no time

Xpost to Simon - I think Peterson rarely gets destroyed in interviews is cuz he’s often matched with people who are maybe worker bees or not as equipped to argue. It’s like if you have a room full of dumbasses but one guy that’s slightly smarter, by default he’s the idiot king

xpost -- Jeffries' one weird trick is that he treats JBP as an equal, makes him crack up twice (just to reiterate... Jordan Peterson. Laughing.), and *then* asks him very basic questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO9j1SLxEd0

We can all learn so much from this interview.