2015 UK General Election campaign & aftermath discussion thread.

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Where's Geldof, Snow etc now?
2014: Scotland stay and make your strong voice heard in Westminster.
2015: We only meant as long as you vote for the Red Tories.

http://i.imgur.com/RqF9m95.jpg

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Saturday, 25 April 2015 22:50 (six years ago) link

Repulsive, depressing, moronic. Lynton Crosby, your work is (almost) done here.

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Saturday, 25 April 2015 23:31 (six years ago) link

#WorstCrisisSinceTheAbdication has been trending on twitter. some crackers too

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 26 April 2015 00:39 (six years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/Af4pEa7.jpg

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 26 April 2015 00:40 (six years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/HmtfJMY.jpg

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 26 April 2015 00:45 (six years ago) link

so out of touch its funny
http://i.imgur.com/9JQ9Qhw.jpg

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 26 April 2015 23:10 (six years ago) link

Yeah, like Charlie Reid would shout "Lorraine Kelly" down a bull horn.

Mark G, Sunday, 26 April 2015 23:31 (six years ago) link

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/load-up-jocks-drop-edinburgh-5591890

VILE Kelvin MacKenzie sparked outrage on after he said Scots living in England should be shipped back to Edinburgh as "McBoat people".

In a rant in the Sun newspaper, MacKenzie used the humanitarian crisis in the Mediterranean to take yet another pop at Scotland, or “Jockestan”.

MacKenzie, the Tory paper's former editor, said: “Get those Libyan people smugglers to bring their boats to the Thames and we will load up all the Jocks and drop them off in Edinburgh.”

He said folk down south should send for boats for Scots if the UK breaks up because England votes to leave the EU and Scotland votes to stay in but, true to form for the two-faced paper, MacKenzie's rant is conspicuous by its absence from the Scottish edition of the paper.

Sneering once more at Scottish values, MacKenzie said: “We’re funding them as we do their free prescriptions, free university places, free etc.

“The sooner they are off the payroll the better. If the UK votes to leave the EU (and I hope they do) the Scots say they will stay in.

“On that basis we should then repatriate all the Scots making good money down here."

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Monday, 27 April 2015 14:42 (six years ago) link

"repatriate" is dangerous language. Who next?

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Monday, 27 April 2015 14:43 (six years ago) link

this has to be the dirtiest , most fearmongering election.... since the referendum

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Monday, 27 April 2015 14:44 (six years ago) link

A Scottish friend of mine in London was refused entry in a taxi because he was Scottish. Is this becoming a thing now thanks to the tories/ukip?

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Monday, 27 April 2015 14:46 (six years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/qsdUvHd.jpg

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Monday, 27 April 2015 21:42 (six years ago) link

You'll love this one. Hospitals are bad! Governments care about the health of the population of their country! Boo! England paid for this!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3057874/Fury-new-1bn-super-hospital-Glasgow-robots-private-cinema-NHS-England-faces-difficult-year-history.html

ailsa, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 01:13 (six years ago) link

This is an absolute disgrace, England has stolen the chip from Scotland's shoulder.

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 06:15 (six years ago) link

Is there going to be any insight in this thread or is it just going to be a succession of angrily reposted headlines about how beastly they're being to the SNP?

Suspect the level of contempt shown towards Scottish voters here is the main reason why so many of them can't wait to get the fuck away, but this isn't really about Scotland, it's about undermining any non-Tory future minority government, and the voice of people who would oppose any regional redistribution of wealth, whether it was being spent on Scotland or the North of England. Pretty much anywhere other than London or Tory-voting areas really.

I find "Red Tory" rhetoric highly irritating despite the kernel of truth in there. The SNP seem publically pretty desperate to go into government with the Red Tories (although the label is also probably the main reason why they privately don't).

Miliband could have killed this at a stroke by demanding that, as the price of coalition, the SNP hold off on any referendum for the duration of the next Parliament, but he's probably terrified that would scupper any deal. Or he could guarantee more powers that the Tories wouldn't. Given that the alternative is the SNP spending five years voting with the Tories (or abstaining from pretty much everything) he has quite a lot of room for maneuvre here - a vote for the SNP is basically a vote for a Labour-led government, whatever they say - but the anger from the Tory press will be so intense that he'll end up leading an enormously pilloried and quite weak government.

Suspect that what's more likely is a widespread rejection of Tory austerity but the Tories still taking power as largest party, unlikely to be able to get any legislation through, and limping on zombie-like under the fixed-term parliament act for as long as it takes before everyone decides enough is enough.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 09:30 (six years ago) link

The idea that the UK govt has to "allow" a referendum in any case is colonial nonsense and at odds with the break-up or cessation of most countries in recent history. Holding aside the rights of wrongs of being able to hold multiple referendums on something with no way back, what's the government going to do if there is a Yes vote in a non-Westminster sanctioned election?

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 09:35 (six years ago) link

I assumed this was a rolling compendium of headlines that annoyed Cosmic Slop, and that we were still doing the actual discussion over on the other politics thread.

Nicola Sturgeon has said she will never go into coalition with the Tories, so Ed's got a pretty firm footing to deal with her party right there. Trident is going to be the massive sticking-point though, and I can't see a satisfactory resolution which will allow Nicola and Ed to work together in a formal coalition.

this isn't really about Scotland, it's about undermining any non-Tory future minority government, and the voice of people who would oppose any regional redistribution of wealth, whether it was being spent on Scotland or the North of England. Pretty much anywhere other than London or Tory-voting areas really.

Spot on. It's focussed on Scotland because it's easier to focus on Scotland because of the giant swing to the SNP post-indyref. What a lot of commentators are forgetting is that the SNP have been in power here for some time now, and people are voting for them because they are relatively left-wing and progressive and have been largely effective (apart from a couple of misfires - the creation of Police Scotland, the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act) at treating the electorate fairly, not because they're twatting around like Mel Gibson in Braveheart bellowing "FREEDOM!" at anyone who'll listen. The referendum issue was cross-party, indeed I know a past-and-present SNP voter who voted no because they believed the SNP are the best party to govern Scotland at this time but they weren't sure about the ramifications of independence. A ton of YES voters wouldn't touch the SNP with a bargepole. But these people don't exist in simplistic soundbite politics world where it's easy to go "boo, Scotland, stealing all our money", and try to paint Scotland as a weird woad-wearing spear-waving bunch of menks trying to oust poor old Dave while keeping the rest of the country's money hostage to do so.

ailsa, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 09:48 (six years ago) link

If the Tories are good at anything, it is divide-and-rule, and nothing would make them happier than to divide left-leaning Scottish voters from same in the rest of the UK.

camp event (suzy), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 09:59 (six years ago) link

I think Jim Murphy and Ed Miliband have done a good enough job of that on their own.

ailsa, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:08 (six years ago) link

Sorry, it wouldn't be Nicola and Ed in coalition, lazily using leaders as shorthand for parties there. Not sure who'd be the SNP leader at WM post-election, I've got a hunch it's *not* going to be Alex Salmond.

ailsa, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:10 (six years ago) link

But there's a tension there in the eyes of the voters. Are they a social democratic party serving the people of Scotland (and if you believe Sturgeon, benefiting all of Britain) or are they a party whose fundamental goal is to secure Scottish independence regardless of what policies they follow after that point? I suspect that if it came down to social democracy vs embracing neoliberalism to preserve the revenues of an independent Scotland they would go for the latter every single time.

The LibDems are facing oblivion because they put off addressing their own internal tensions (economic liberalism vs socially-democratic social liberalism) until the last possible moment. A similar thing is affecting Labour in a slower way. I can see the same thing happening here.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:11 (six years ago) link

This is a wider issue post-Blair of parties pretending to be all things to all people (and potentially ending up being nothing to anyone).

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:14 (six years ago) link

is it a case of selective memory or has this whole campaign been quite significantly more weird, stupid, and venal than even the usual low standards? it does make it hard to engage with it by any means other than posting exasperated .jpgs. but it's at least good to have the fact that the tories don't really believe in representative democracy out in the open now.

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:20 (six years ago) link

Again, may be selective memory but it seems to have had much less focus on policy than in any other election i can recall. Labour pulling out potentially huge messages on housing nine days before the election, Cameron's extra billions for the NHS, etc seem fairly ad hoc and of secondary importance. The only core messages are negative - that Labour presents a risk of "chaos" and that the Conservative cuts have been unfairly applied.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:25 (six years ago) link

Are they a social democratic party serving the people of Scotland (and if you believe Sturgeon, benefiting all of Britain) or are they a party whose fundamental goal is to secure Scottish independence regardless of what policies they follow after that point?

At the moment, they're the former, and I don't see that they would shift policy if they were in power in an independent Scotland.

ailsa, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:29 (six years ago) link

Well, quite: They would have to disband if they either gained independence, or found that it could never happen.

Mark G, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:43 (six years ago) link

Why would they have to disband?

ailsa, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:46 (six years ago) link

I don't see that they would shift policy if they were in power in an independent Scotland

This is the bit I have difficulty believing, especially if they were to get into economic trouble. Not that my opinion matters, particularly, I am just cynical about these things.

If they genuinely are the former, the coalition-building shouldn't be as difficult as it's being made out to be, but they have their own share of the vote to preserve in two weeks' time.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 10:48 (six years ago) link

my not quite in the thick of it take is that post-salmond they've shifted away from the somewhat wishy washy populism that characterised still being a single-issue party to a significant extent towards something more firmly grounded in the left of centre, but yeah of course that's not immutable

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 11:07 (six years ago) link

has this whole campaign been quite significantly more weird, stupid, and venal than even the usual low standards?

If it wins the Tories the election then Lynton Crosby will chalk it up as a job well done. I almost at a loss to adequately explain quite how stupid, unprincipled, short-sighted, dangerous (to the future of the Union) etcetcetc this anti-SNP hysteria is.

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 11:11 (six years ago) link

Also for 30-something years the Right has assumed it had essentially won the battle of ideas, now it's becoming apparent that isn't the case, they are fighting tooth and nail to hang on.

Miliband is way to the right of where I would like him to be on both welfare and immigration (and is depressingly probably positioned to the right of what he actually believes), but I don't believe he's a neoliberal either.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 11:48 (six years ago) link

The stupidity and tossed off popularism of the campaign also reflects the weakness of pretty much everyone that isn't the SNP.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 11:49 (six years ago) link

Also the UKIP factor, which is diminishing now that the main parties have lurched in their direction.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 11:50 (six years ago) link

The trouble for UKIP, and for the rest of us come polling day, is that vast numbers of the racists, fruitcakes et al are returning to their true home, the Conservative Party. Predictable though.

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 11:54 (six years ago) link

ICM has UKIP at their strongest since December but i think people are largely guessing at the moment. I'm not sure Cameron has made much of an effort to really win them back in the last few weeks.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 12:00 (six years ago) link

Other than pretending to support West Ham.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 12:00 (six years ago) link

:)

yeovil knievel (NickB), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 12:10 (six years ago) link

Also for 30-something years the Right has assumed it had essentially won the battle of ideas, now it's becoming apparent that isn't the case, they are fighting tooth and nail to hang on.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 12:48 (31 minutes ago)

this isn't remotely true, the coalition parties and ukip combined have 57% in the latest icm poll

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 12:28 (six years ago) link

I'm not claiming the Right (by which I mean generally the neoliberal Right) has lost the battle either, but it's no longer a foregone conclusion that they've won. 57% is down quite a lot on, say, 2005, when three parties commanding c. 90% of the vote were all pledging minimal interference in the market.

Since then, Labour has moved slightly to the left in some areas and lurched considerably to the right in others. Obviously the pre-crisis Labour vote wasn't a monolith and much of it was way to the left of Blair and Brown, but the wider fragmentation that is now taking place is a symptom of the breakdown of that consensus. Even some (possibly quite a lot) of the UKIP vote is mopping up unarticulated dissatisfaction with globalisation (and articulated rage against the mass migration that goes with it).

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 13:24 (six years ago) link

Post-Iraq, loads of Labour left voters didn't bother to turn up to vote in either local or general elections. The lower the turnout, the more likely neo-liberal bollocks is to fill the vacuum.

camp event (suzy), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 14:08 (six years ago) link

57% is down quite a lot on, say, 2005, when three parties commanding c. 90% of the vote were all pledging minimal interference in the market.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 14:24 (30 minutes ago)

this as you partly acknowledge relies entirely on conceit that the labour party has constituitively altered itself from a third way party, which it never was, to a social democratic partly, which in sum of its parliamentary cohort it still isn't

the last five years of notional 'austerity' have provided a perfect advert for social democracy and yet parties advertising such programmes have less than 40% support

that some of the of anxiety of the ukip vote might be protectionist rather than xenophobic is of no matter when the party they are voting for is clearly neoliberal in character (else you are verging into a normative false consciousness argument that they ought to be voting for a protectionist social democratic party)

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 14:17 (six years ago) link

Some of the policies that Miliband has been advocating (specifically rent controls and freezing energy prices) are considerably more interventionist than anything Blair would have countenanced, but it's too early to judge whether these are populist vote-winners or totemic policies that might offer some clue about how he would choose to govern. But it's policies like this that are fuelling the Tory press's visceral horror of him, they might not be fighting a standard-issue Blairite in the same way.

I don't really believe that Miliband or the PLP are particularly left-wing or social democratic, especially given the cowardly and/or morally repugnant stance the party is taking on austerity. This doesn't invalidate my point that a lot of the hysteria is motivated by a fear of left-wing ideas re-emerging into the political mainstream, and they are going hell for leather to stamp that out, possibly counterproductively.

Social democratic parties still comprise less than 40% of the vote, but that's still up on a decade ago, especially given how difficult it is to prise voters away from long-held allegiances and anyone-but-the-Tories voting patterns.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 14:41 (six years ago) link

They are of course panicking about press regulation as well.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 14:43 (six years ago) link

Social democratic parties still comprise less than 40% of the vote, but that's still up on a decade ago, especially given how difficult it is to prise voters away from long-held allegiances and anyone-but-the-Tories voting patterns.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 15:41

so after five years of people purportedly killing themselves due to arbitrary benefit sanctions, not much less than 60% of the population favour the neoliberal consensus, in what is risibly termed 'the battle of ideas' that has the look of victory about it

a lot of the hysteria is motivated by a fear of left-wing ideas re-emerging into the political mainstream

the hysteria is because the conservative party has irrationally prolonged a political system that structurally favours the ~40% or so who will vote for apparently or actually social democratic parties

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 14:53 (six years ago) link

the likely electorate if not the population

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 14:56 (six years ago) link

so after five years of people purportedly killing themselves due to arbitrary benefit sanctions, not much less than 60% of the population favour the neoliberal consensus

A lot of the Labour vote will be kidding themselves that their vote is the only way to end austerity, or voting Labour because that's what they've always done. That doesn't equate to favouring the neoliberal consensus although in practice it means pretty much the same thing.

the hysteria is because the conservative party has irrationally prolonged a political system that structurally favours the ~40% or so who will vote for apparently or actually social democratic parties

Yeah that too, but it's a combination of both. Whether these parties wield their influence through structural issues with the voting system or through wider share of the vote makes little difference if you are Murdoch or Dacre, what matters is that they are not allowed to do so in the first place. Clegg's feeble bleating about the "centre ground" is a similar attempt to police the boundaries of acceptable political thought.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 15:15 (six years ago) link

the conservative party is imperilled by its residual burkean stolidity and by its boorish expression of will-to-power that prioritizes its private interest over that of the centre right and economic liberalism as such

they labour under the delusion that a thatcher-like king in the mountain ought to return and win majorities under the current electoral system, they neglect the structural deficit they have under fptp (their votes count less than labour) and the general fragmentation to sectional interest minor parties that renders the majority dream unfeasible

the myth here is that a properly reactionary, unitary anti-eu conservative party is possible, even when most of the city abhors the notion, or that a faragite conservative party wouldn't in turn alienate the one nation lot to the liberal democrats and leave them no more, perhaps even less electable as a majority

if the current weak, inertial leadership made concessions to reality, they might choose between electoral reform which could further the long-run likelihood of concilliatory conservative-led coalitions, or further the cause of either national federalism or scottish independence which might entrench the majoritaran dream at the cost of the imperial one

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 15:22 (six years ago) link

The neoliberal consensus has largely failed to convince the electorate that it offers any opportunity for substantial national growth or personal advancement. The 40%+ still planning to vote for the coalition seems to be much more motivated by risk avoidance / hard 'realism' than any major commitment to making the market more free. To the extent that there is a battle of ideas, it's much easier to suggest that neoliberalism has lost than to point to anyone actually winning. That's a large part of the reason the Conservative campaign has been so lacklustre. There is no overt ideological argument being made, nothing to campaign on - just safe managerialism. They have trashed parts of the economy reliant on immigration for political capital, for example, but not to the extent that the right of the party would want. They're as far removed from the bulk of the grassroots as Labour is.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 16:06 (six years ago) link

The neoliberal consensus has largely failed to convince the electorate that it offers any opportunity for substantial national growth or personal advancement.

― Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:06 (5 minutes ago)

this could have been cribbed from a demos paper for all that it understands about how the world works, neoliberalism has always been an ideology whose tenets and even whose name are largely unknown to the people who prolong it electorally

'just safe managerialism' is exactly why the upper middle and middle classes with property and finance exposure are happy, for most of the rest it operates as a series of normative biases recharacterizing social security as charity, particularizing economic blocs into interest groups and so forth, it's exactly not an appeal that needs 'overt ideological argument' to convince

so it's wishful to write 'it's much easier to suggest that neoliberalism has lost than to point to anyone actually winning' when its exponents are winning the plebiscite if not the election, just because few of those electors are very enthusastic about it

save for perhaps in central europe, a surrendered lack of enthusiasm is the natural disposition of neoliberalism, it's almost an inversion of schmitt's 'political romanticism'

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 16:31 (six years ago) link

From a market perspective, yes. Politically Neoliberal parties outside of Asia have typically at least attempted to engage the electorate in the idea that there is a benefit to them in deregulation, privatisation, etc.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 16:42 (six years ago) link

then what exactly is selling off state housing at huge discounts to tenants, should thatcher's sell off have been conceived as an appeal to deregulation, privatisation as 'idea' to a whole coterie of litle exurban francis fukuyamas

surely it would be better to describe it as clientelism, differing from cameron's version only in that its appeal to personal venality was given a bit more of an aspirational filigree

the sort of policy that its clients could benefit from, while at the same time finding the lack of value received for public assets to be contrary to their native ideology of fiscal conservatism

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:05 (six years ago) link

The fact that a leader of the Labour Party now believes he can make it to Number 10 while promising increased regulation of the housing, energy and financial markets suggests that he believes in a growing voter bloc who no longer feel that neoliberalism is working for them (on top of the people who never believed it was in the first place - even if they wouldn't express it in those terms). The flipside of this is that there is also a very large group who believe the myth of "there's no money left" that has provided the political justification for austerity, not to mention the even larger group who would freak out at the merest sniff of the drop in house prices that would result from any serious attempt to reform the market. And there are enough voters who will believe all of these contradictory things at once.

"Neoliberalism has lost" is possibly too simplistic, but neoliberalism does need a big enough pool of people who feel like they are winning (or are at least comfortable enough to be risk averse) and that pool is shrinking. That said it's still easily big enough to feel the hit to the wallet that would result from even the most modest attempt to reform markets, and the subsequent backlash would likely be enough to justify the next wave of neoliberalism. I very much doubt that Labour are brave enough to risk any contraction in the property market, for instance.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:17 (six years ago) link

See also the polls showing a majority of people who believe that reduction in inequality is a good thing, while also opposing the sort of measures that might bring it about.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:23 (six years ago) link

The fact that a leader of the Labour Party now believes he can make it to Number 10 while promising increased regulation of the housing, energy and financial markets suggests that he believes in a growing voter bloc who no longer feel that neoliberalism is working for them (on top of the people who never believed it was in the first place - even if they wouldn't express it in those terms).

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 18:17

the only reason he could conceivably become prime minister is exactly because of the electoral system being skewed, to some extent in favour of labour (something like a 1.4 vs 1.3 multiplier between proportion of votes and proportion of seats in 2010) and vastly in favour of the snp.....projected by tns now to get all but two seats in scotland with only 54% of the popular vote

so a very strong affirmation of the leftwards turn of the snp, with rather minor increase in support for labour and greens (considered together) in england relative to 2010

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:31 (six years ago) link

Xps, that aspirational element is crucial though. The genius of Thatcher / Reagan was their ability to convince a huge swathe of the electorate that by freeing the market they would create an environment in which people could thrive if they tried hard enough. Far more people bought into that idea than materially benefited from it so I'm not sure I'd class it as pure clientelism. Take that aspirational core away and you're left with a platform of "we won't make things any worse for you".

Neoliberalism has clearly won where it counts, give or take some tinkering around the edges Labour is going to be a neoliberal party for the foreseeable future, but in terms of providing a convincing platform to build an economy on, it's tough to see it having any inherent appeal to anyone who doesn't simply benefit from the stability it provides. It isn't delivering housing, it isn't delivering marked economic growth outside of London, it isn't delivering job security, etc.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:36 (six years ago) link

"Neoliberalism has lost" is possibly too simplistic, but neoliberalism does need a big enough pool of people who feel like they are winning (or are at least comfortable enough to be risk averse) and that pool is shrinking.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 18:17 (13 minutes ago)

there has been no wage growth for years and yet 57% of people intend to vote for the coalition or ukip, 'the neoliberalism of losers' to adapt the old bebel quote to your terms

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:37 (six years ago) link

The genius of Thatcher / Reagan was their ability to convince a huge swathe of the electorate that by freeing the market they would create an environment in which people could thrive if they tried hard enough. Far more people bought into that idea than materially benefited from it so I'm not sure I'd class it as pure clientelism.

― Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 18:36 (1 minute ago)

the unsuccessful clients of clientelism do not become ideologues after the fact

LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:40 (six years ago) link

Or, indeed, "The ragged trousered philanthropists" xpost

Mark G, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 17:49 (six years ago) link

Lots of good posts in here this afternoon.

Eyeball Kicks, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 18:35 (six years ago) link

Quentin Letts in the Mail writes about the interview and Labour's party election broadcast.


"Gloop alert, Britain. Just when the election was in danger of getting serious with talk of the economy and immigration, Ed Miliband went on an amazing telly offensive last night - amazingly saccharine and yankeedoodle, that is.
"It was so sugary, I felt a little diabetic high coming on."

Michael Deacon's sketch in the Telegraph imagines how some of the conversation might have gone...

Brand: "Forsooth, corluvaduck! Who crosseth o'er the threshold of me 'umble abode? Why! 'Tis Ed Miliband, aspirant perpetuator of patriarchal corporate hegemony! Ed Miliband! Bread Killer Banned, Spread Filly Gland, Red Willy Hand, Dead Silly Brand!"
Miliband: "Now, look. Let me be clear about this, Russell, because I want to be clear about it. Hello, I'm pleased to meet you."

Andrew Smith in the Independent reckons Mr Miliband handled the heat in Brand's kitchen:
"It all went so well that Brand might even be persuaded to vote."

Owen Jones writing in the Guardian believes
Mr Miliband should be praised for having an interview with someone who has resonated with a lot of young disaffected people.

Votes for the silliest review of this? How about we imagine how the conversation went instead of reporting the conversation that is manifestly audible.

Mark G, Wednesday, 29 April 2015 11:23 (six years ago) link

Michael Deacon's take on Brand is terrible, but his Miliband is otm tbh.

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 12:09 (six years ago) link

miliband but it could be blair or cameron or practically any "front bench" politician of the past 15-20 years

conrad, Wednesday, 29 April 2015 12:33 (six years ago) link

lol "let me be clear about this" really is some kind of talk unique to a brit politician, just like an empty prelude.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 12:42 (six years ago) link

see also "we've been very clear about this" as meaningful-sounding void and "look" as generic punctuation used to suggest a point or question that won't be addressed is about to be addressed

conrad, Wednesday, 29 April 2015 12:49 (six years ago) link

at least "i'm glad you asked me about that" sounds amusingly sleazy

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 13:03 (six years ago) link

Unsurprisingly, that MiliBrand interview really isn't worth a front page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDZm9_uKtyo

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 13:10 (six years ago) link

Q: Within this paradigm there is no choice. That is why people like Nigel Farage when he turns up with a pint on his head.

Miliband says he won’t be putting a pint on his head.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 29 April 2015 13:13 (six years ago) link

lol "let me be clear about this" really is some kind of talk unique to a brit politician, just like an empty prelude.

― bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, April 29, 2015 8:42 AM (32 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it is literally the thing impersonators of obama say the most to let people know they're doing an impersonation of obama

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 13:16 (six years ago) link

that doesn't necessarily contradict LG's point xp

yeovil knievel (NickB), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 13:19 (six years ago) link

he says it's unique to a brit politician. it's demonstrably and famously not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSbl_uvtNSE

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 13:21 (six years ago) link

okay - sorry caek

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 13:42 (six years ago) link

i mean it's doubtless true it's a tic miliband (and other british politicians) have consciously or unconcsciously picked up from obama

and agreed it's an empty prelude

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 13:56 (six years ago) link

ffs they haven't picked up from Obama, they've been saying it for years, not sure if Lord Palmerston said it but...

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:12 (six years ago) link

i guess i just seldom hear obama speak really

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:13 (six years ago) link

Same here.

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:15 (six years ago) link

Pretty sure Blair used that phrase a few times also.

It's almost as bad as the passive-aggressive 'Look, ...' all UK politicians seem to start every answer with when addressing an audience

Steve Reich In The Afternoon (Against The 80s), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:20 (six years ago) link

Australian cricketers constantly do that too.

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:22 (six years ago) link

uk politicians and australian cricketers (also england cricketers now) FFS XPOST

carles the jekyll (imago), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:23 (six years ago) link

look, tom, leave the cricket talk to me in future

carles the jekyll (imago), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:23 (six years ago) link

irish people do "listen" more than look, i think.

we know our limitations.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:25 (six years ago) link

Who has been more influential on UK politics, Barack Obama or Ricky Ponting?

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:27 (six years ago) link

... and Welsh say "look you" and the Scots, "See you, Jimmy"

Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:29 (six years ago) link

i guess i just seldom hear obama speak really

― bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, April 29, 2015 10:13 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he speaks all the time, it is literally the thing impersonators of obama do the most to let people know they're doing an impersonation of obama

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:34 (six years ago) link

i find that hard to believe - i imagine i'd have heard him speak by now if he could

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:50 (six years ago) link

teach the controversy

carles the jekyll (imago), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 14:56 (six years ago) link

haw imago you know we scots run the cricket threads here! ;)

but yeah its been around forever

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Wednesday, 29 April 2015 16:38 (six years ago) link

Favourite Obama speech for a while now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z168hPCZuk

nashwan, Wednesday, 29 April 2015 17:05 (six years ago) link

I can think of only one suitable place where Bama's nobel peace prize ought to be shoved in a very rough manner...

This year is going to be my first actual vote and what a shitty vote it will be. I wasn't previously a refuse-nik, previous excuses; druggy nihilist apathy and another time I was busy with more important shit and never registered, then there was the other Fuck Blair time. I want to vote for the Green Party for my debut vote but might have to vote for Labour unfortunately. This current lot are fixing to liquidate my family so it is a desperate vote really and one which still may prove to be a mistake.

xelab, Wednesday, 29 April 2015 19:08 (six years ago) link

I would warm to ed if the entirety of his communications were engraved on monoliths

ogmor, Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:33 (six years ago) link

Are any of his objectives on there in any way measurable? Twat.

ailsa, Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:37 (six years ago) link

labour is more of a vibe

ogmor, Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:40 (six years ago) link

like all 2015 conviction politicians i'm sure Ed would dearly love to set out some actual concrete policies that would promote equality and reduce the number of people in the UK living in poverty but unfortunately he has to play the game of realpolitik which means as the leader of a small, unpopular party he can only fudge issues, make vague uplifting noises and continue to serve the agenda of Capitalism

contendo conformo (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:42 (six years ago) link

This place is a message... and part of a system of messages... pay attention to it!Sending this message was important to us. We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.

This place is not a place of honor...no highly esteemed deed is commemorated here... nothing valued is here.

What is here is dangerous and repulsive to us. This message is a warning about danger.

The danger is in a particular location... it increases toward a center... the center of danger is here... of a particular size and shape, and below us.

The danger is still present, in your time, as it was in ours.

The danger is to the body, and it can kill.

The form of the danger is an emanation of energy.

The danger is unleashed only if you substantially disturb this place physically. This place is best shunned and left uninhabited.

bizarro gazzara, Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:44 (six years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEE5kkpWYAAnRvs.jpg

piscesx, Sunday, 3 May 2015 12:35 (six years ago) link

The Labour Party is already a parody of itself.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 3 May 2015 15:31 (six years ago) link

https://vine.co/v/e7lma2ivQwa

soref, Sunday, 3 May 2015 15:44 (six years ago) link

this just seems baffling, how many people would have had to sign off on this terrible idea before we got to the point of Ed Miliband being photographed in front of a giant stone with Labour's campaign pledges carved into it, and somehow it still happened

soref, Sunday, 3 May 2015 15:47 (six years ago) link

Who does he think he is, fuckin' Moses?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 3 May 2015 16:02 (six years ago) link

Today in pointless protest votes - what's the story with TUSC? I chatted a bit with the candidate for my constituency yesterday and she was trying to convince me to vote for them instead of the Greens. I tend to be a bit suspicious of "socialist" parties even though I am basically a socialist, I wouldn't support SWP or Respect, but I noted the TUSC were selling a Socialist newspaper that isn't the Socialist Worker so I assume they're not affiliated.

Really it makes no difference to anything whether I vote TUSC or Green in a safe Labour seat but I figured since it is a safe seat there's no point me voting Labour just to keep the Tories out because it's not like they have a hope in hell in my constituency anyway. I'd just like to support a credible left wing party (wouldn't we all lol etc) even if it is a worthless token gesture.

Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 10:34 (six years ago) link

feel like old school left Labour/Trade Union activists, wd probly vote for them if they stood a candidate in my ward, am sure they are terrible irresponsible gits who haven't properly costed their manifesto pledges and don't see the point of having war crime weapons and such

another understated post from (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 10:39 (six years ago) link

looks like an electoral collab between the usual suspects: SWP, Socialist Party (old Militant) etc

woof, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 10:42 (six years ago) link

Founded by Bob Crow! Probably all you need to know one way or another :)

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 10:46 (six years ago) link

hmm, apparently it was formed out of that No2EU party and does have SWP in it. The Socialist newspaper they were selling is the Militant paper - I was too young to really know what was going on re Militant in the 80s tbh. Local candidate is the daughter of the Militant leader.

Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 10:56 (six years ago) link

I haven't seen one single canvasser from any party round my bit. I wonder if they just assume everyone here is Labour.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 11:50 (six years ago) link

yeah nobody called to me at any point, just littered my mailbox with increasingly large pamphlets

i find that quite disappointing, i was looking forward to wheeling out my meagre local man concerns

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 11:53 (six years ago) link

SNP surely? (xp)

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 11:53 (six years ago) link

man in one of the flats opposite has got one of those fucking england flags up in his window with an a4 'vote ukip' sign stuck right in the centre of it. it's a really grey and grubby flag though, looks like it's already spent 14 weather-beaten years hanging outside a sports pub on a busy traffic junction. fairly makes my heart sing seeing it every morning

yeovil knievel (NickB), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 12:03 (six years ago) link

was in Glasgow this weekend and it was pretty wild how many yellow SNP posters i saw, stuck in every conceivable sort of window

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 12:12 (six years ago) link

Got this through the door yesterday:

http://i.imgur.com/MyRbeXL.jpg

Timing!

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 12:16 (six years ago) link

nah tom, cant see either hamilton constituency going snp. the one with rutherglen will stay labour according to lord ashcrofts polls and our one (that contains larky and lanark) cant see people in those towns voting snp.
Would make my year if Jimmy Hood was kicked out though.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 12:17 (six years ago) link

UKIP's Scottish launch impressively even worse than you might imagine.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 12:31 (six years ago) link

Enjoying the lib dem messaging today.

'Tories/Labour can't form a workable government with any of these other parties due to the SNP/DUP/UKIP having actual principles. Luckily, that's where we come in'

Blandford Forum, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 12:50 (six years ago) link

'Bored and depressed by this election campaign? Sick of watching the gogglebox people watching party political broadcasts? Imagine having to do it all again! You don't want that do you? We have the physical mass necessary to stop that happening. Vote lib dem.'

Blandford Forum, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 13:01 (six years ago) link

the one with rutherglen will stay labour according to lord ashcrofts polls and our one (that contains larky and lanark) cant see people in those towns voting snp.

Pity the DUP aren't putting a candidate up.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 13:20 (six years ago) link

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2015/may/05/election-2015-where-should-you-vote-tactically

If you want Ed Miliband to be the prime minister ...

Consider a vote for Ukip in these constituencies:

Boston and Skegness
Castle Point
Rochester and Strood
South Basildon and East Thurrock

yeovil knievel (NickB), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 13:36 (six years ago) link

"If you want David or Ed to be PM vote Lib Dem everywhere."

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 13:38 (six years ago) link

Based, presumably, on the idea that Ed'll have a better chance if he has a seat-and-vote lead over Cameron - in reality the Murdoch press will whine on about illegitimate government if he ends up in Number 10 by any means. Rochester's the existing UKIP seat, predicted to go back to the Tories.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 13:42 (six years ago) link

Article somewhere (can't find it just now) about how 50% of the conservative-identifying voters in Hallam are voting for Nick Clegg.

Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 13:44 (six years ago) link

What a step outside their comfort zone that must be.

Tim, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 14:13 (six years ago) link

I'm all for this Coalition of Chaos I keep hearing about, sounds colourful.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 14:32 (six years ago) link

"If you like a lot of chocolate on your biscuit..."

Mark G, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 14:33 (six years ago) link

... don't let Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon steal it.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 14:37 (six years ago) link

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/shaun-lawson/polls-and-most-of-forecasts-are-wrong-ed-miliband-will-not-be-next-prime-min

Internet-based polls are almost certainly inaccurate. Ashcroft’s methodology is suspect. A late shift to the status quo almost always occurs, is probably already ongoing, yet is never properly picked up until the results come in. Tory scare stories regarding SNP influence are having an impact. Miliband hasn’t done enough. His party doesn’t want an illegitimate coalition or deal.

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 15:12 (six years ago) link

I'm all for this Coalition of Chaos I keep hearing about, sounds colourful.

the next uk government:

http://i1.wp.com/batman-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Suicide-Squad-Cast-Photo.jpg

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 15:14 (six years ago) link

nah, way too diverse

bizarro gazzara, Tuesday, 5 May 2015 15:33 (six years ago) link

jesus christ @ this fucking cunt:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/robert-blay-ukip-suspends-parliamentary-5641537

yeovil knievel (NickB), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 22:28 (six years ago) link

:-€

p:s nerds know (dog latin), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 22:45 (six years ago) link

Thing is these arseholes have usually spent most of there adult lives as Conservatives, and will no doubt return to the fold at some point or other, the two parties are indistinguishable as far as I am concerned.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 23:19 (six years ago) link

... and let's not forget that.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Tuesday, 5 May 2015 23:20 (six years ago) link

who amongst us has not wished death on the odd Tory here and there?

another understated post from (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 05:32 (six years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/u6gFseC.jpg?1

Impressive mixture of 'keep class warfare zealot out of office' and 'GP waiting times to quadruple if nothing is done' from the Mail.

http://i.imgur.com/RzYeYhq.jpg?1

The Sun going with 'oh has anyone noticed that guy's Jewish?' again.

Tempted to vote Labour out of spite.

Haven't seen much good analysis of the impact of a low turnout on the results but i wouldn't be surprised if it was in the 60%-65% range and that played into the hands of the Conservatives. 5/6 on Cameron forming a government seems like ok odds.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 07:11 (six years ago) link

for the first time in my life i can relate to reading about all those people or celebs or whatever who leave the country when the tories get back in. (i guess only my second election living in the uk, but god, if i didn't have to live somewhere where english is the main language...)

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 08:54 (six years ago) link

The press have had little to no effect - so much for Murdoch, right wing press etc. Everyone is pretty much at the same stage as when they started the campaign (apart from SNP but I think the collapse of the Labour vote was already a fact by the time the campaig started).

Everything tells me Ed has the nerve to push for a minority/locking Tories out arrangement. 10-20 seats here or there will decide.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 08:58 (six years ago) link

The press's influence is definitely on the wane, but I wouldn't underestimate it particularly with certain demographics in swing seats.

I don't expect UKIP to win many seats but no one seems to have much of a clue whether they'll pull more votes from Labour or the Tories and where, they could still tilt the balance even if Farage loses/they lose both their existing MPs.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 09:19 (six years ago) link

I don't think enough people will believe the press has had any effective outcome on enough seats in this election to swing one way or another.

If anyone does then show your working please.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 09:24 (six years ago) link

Think this election largely hinges on Labour doing much better in Scotland than predicted. The 'shy Labour' vote coming out perhaps.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 09:29 (six years ago) link

can we stop this show your working please now please

conrad, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 10:03 (six years ago) link

no, everything must be proven beyond reasonable doubt or else invalid.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 10:04 (six years ago) link

yes that's fine of course but the turn of phrase it is bad

conrad, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 10:05 (six years ago) link

If anyone does then show your working please.

A'ight, I think the yoking together of Labour and the SNP, the extent to which this has been successfully leveraged as an issue in England, is mostly due to the heavy lifting of the press. Also, the right wing press lining up behind the tories will, I think, have an effect of depressing the Ukip vote. I don't think the press will have inspired any Lab-Tory switching of any importance, most people had made their minds up on that long since (although that raises the question of the longer-term effects of letting these papers set the news agenda for the last... X years).

Think it was always fair game to speculate on the SNP's agenda so soon after the referedum. This is an issue for Labour - the collapse of very dependable number of seats - as much as anybody else.

I don't think the press was needed to depress the UKIP vote, they are capable of doing that themselves - how many suspensions have they gone through now? Plus Europe is not as big a deal in a general election.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:00 (six years ago) link

18 UKIP Councillors (including 2 council group leaders), 17 Candidates, 1 National Secretary, 1 Youth Secretary, 1 UKIP Scotland Chair, 1 Spokesperson, 1 entire local branch, 1 local committee & 3 MEPs have been suspended from the party solely during this Parliament.

impressive!

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:06 (six years ago) link

Plus Europe is not as big a deal in a general election.

Europe no, immigration (and any social problems blamed on it) yes.

The UKIP vote is vastly more sensitive to what the press says than that of virtually any other party, so it does and will make a difference. Some of the Lab-Tory swing vote might have been as well, but that side has mostly been with the Tories (or even the LibDems) for some time now, possibly the entire duration of the parliament. A lot of UKIP voters will be morons and not particularly sensitive to stupid things their candidates say or do.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:09 (six years ago) link

Europe is half of their manifesto.

I don't know why the morons who vote UKIP wold listen to the press as they form part of the elites UKIP is supposedly fighting against.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:12 (six years ago) link

Same reason they listen to Farage. Whether you're part of an elite or not is irrelevant, it's presenting yourself as outside of one that counts, and that's what the Sun and the Express in particular specialise in.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:14 (six years ago) link

ILX's own Stirmonster has made a rather excellent "why I used to vote Labour but no longer " post and said It was ok for me to post it here

I became a Labour supporter at the age of 15, my political awakening coming during the Miner's strike in 1983. I first voted for Labour in the 1987 general election and then again in 1992, 1997 (the big one!), 2001 and with great reservations in 2005, for what will probably prove to have been the very last time. Over that period I also voted for them in several local, European and Scottish elections.

I lived through the entire Thatcher era and can totally understand why an unelectable Labour party had to reinvent itself as New Labour. I convinced myself that Tony Blair's, to my mind traitorous, scrapping of Clause 4 was simply a sad but necessary step to make Labour electable, which of course he did in the 1997 election, a night I celebrated with great gusto. The day after that election that saw Labour returned to power after 18 years, Mr. Blair made a speech in which he talked about the huge mandate the British people had given him and how people were going to be shocked by how radical Labour was going to be. He certainly kept his word even if it wasn't the kind of "radical" most of us were expecting.

In 1997 I genuinely and naively believed we were at the dawn of a New Jerusalem. I clung onto the idea that Labour were making the best of a difficult situation until in 2003, I along with hundreds of thousands of others marched to protest UK involvement in the Iraq war, something Mr. Blair completely ignored as apparently God told him to go ahead and do it.

Since then my regard for the Labour party has spiralled downwards exponentially. The current party does not seem to care for the "labour" of this country and definitely not for anyone who should happen to be on benefits, as Labour's Rachel Reeves recently stated. Her quote - "We are not the party of people on benefits. We don’t want to be seen, and we’re not, the party to represent those who are out of work" seems to me beyond despicable. It appears they only care about their own electability basing all their core policies on focus group led findings, constantly kowtowing to mainstream press opinion and are mainly concerned with what voters in key marginal seats might think.

In hindsight it is easy to see that Labour were prone to spinelessness long before this. One example: In 1969, the great Labour matriarch, Barbara Castle proposed in a white paper called "In Place Of Strife" that Trade Unions should be forced to call a ballot before a strike and that an Industrial Board should be established to enforce settlements in industrial disputes. The Labour leadership, perhaps in fear of the Unions who held such powerful sway over the Labour Party didn't have the stomach for it and it was dropped. Had they embraced it as policy, the war on the Unions that Thatcher fought throughout the 1980s might never have happened and the political climate of this country might have been very different today with the unions remaining a lot less emasculated than they ended up being. As an aside, Thatcher's war with the National Union of Miners had very little to do with her claims that coal mining was "uneconomic" (an incorrect and meaningless term), but was simply an all out act of revenge for the NUM's humiliation of Edward Heath's previous Conservative government.

Anyway, I digress. Of course there are still a small handful of good people in the Labour party trying to do good things and many dedicated activists still drawn to the party who believe in the true Labour ideals and still cling to the hope the party will act on them. I even think Ed Milliband is sincere in his beliefs but they just seem too weak, too neo liberal.

The West of Scotland has been a Labour heartland for decades but the cracks here had begun to show long before the referendum. The referendum did however lead to a level of political debate and awareness Scotland has probably never seen before which opened a lot of people's eyes to what the Labour party had become. That Labour would do the Tory's dirty work and conspire with them in a united front to push for a no vote has irrevocably tainted them in many people's eyes. That the very poorest parts of Scotland voted Yes with the most determination, that these former bastions of Labour support ignored the wishes of the party many had voted for for decades is very telling and helps explain what to many might appear to be an irrational loathing for Scottish Labour. Labour should have been the party of these people. It should have sided with the notion of home rule just as the first ever Labour MP elected to Parliament, Keir Hardie had over 100 years previously. I don't believe that Labour were in favour of preserving the Union for any other reason than their own self interest; the number of Scottish MPs who would have lost their jobs and the impact losing all those Scottish MPs would have on future chances of Labour being in power. Gordon Brown's hollow "vow" was for many a final nail in the coffin and it would appear they are going to lose most of those MPs anyway. Lose, lose!

The UK media has gone batshit mental over Scotland's role in this general election and I know many people south of the border who find it reprehensible that the Scots not voting Labour might lead to another Tory government, something the bulk of the Scottish population have voted against since the 1980s. Yes we fear a Tory govt, particularly as they are prone to treat Scotland with particular contempt for having deserted them eons ago and will no doubt be out to punish Scotland further this time round, but it's no longer enough to blindly vote for the second worst option that is a Labour party we no longer believe in. To quote a friend of mine "We're not idiots. We're doing what we think is best, out of hope rather than fear, for the first time in a long time".

I particularly hope to see the end of Labour's stranglehold on Glasgow as they truly don't deserve the votes of the people here who had supported them through thick and thin and been taken for granted for so long. Then there is the Labour controlled Glasgow city council who have ruled this city almost as long as the Communist Party ruled the Soviet Union. Apart from a brief period in the late 60s / early 70s when the now defunct Progressive Party was in control and an odd period in the late 70s when the Conservatives led the council, Glasgow City Council has been controlled by Labour for 63 years going way back to 1952. The result of such an entrenched Labour control over the city is a completely out of touch, corrupt, incompetent, self serving council with constant allegations of cronyism. One only has to walk around Glasgow to witness an endless series of ill thought out planning disasters the council can claim credit for but beyond this, they are hopelessly out of touch with the needs of Glasgow and its place as a modern 21st century city. And why should they care? They knew they were safely in power, able to do whatever they liked, to pass on positions of power from generation to generation and that every few years so few people would turn out to vote in council elections that they would safely be returned to power, able to abuse their position. I feel confident the next local elections here will see a seismic change in the council make up too.

I am not aligned to any party anymore but will vote to keep Labour out in my constituency. I will vote SNP for the first time in my life. As recently as a year ago I would have thought it unimaginable that I would ever even consider voting for them but a year is a long time in politics and has been akin to an epoch in Scotland. I was a late but passionate convert to independence, will never be a nationalist but see no contradiction with being anti nationalism yet wanting independence. I certainly don't think the SNP have all the answers. I am deeply sceptical of all political parties but the SNP do appear to be the most progressive option likely to win seats, at least talk the anti-austerity talk and are anti-Trident and pro-electoral reform which along with the unacceptable need for foodbanks in our communities are some of my biggest personal concerns.

I believe the people of the UK deserve better than the current kaput system has to offer. The system is deeply undemocratic. We need to have electoral reform; proportional representation, an elected second chamber, regional assemblies, MPs not being allowed any outside financial interests (if they can't live on an MP's salary they shouldn't become MPs) and a total reappraisal of lobbying and particularly lobbying by big businesses. That's just for starters!

Ultimately, in this information age I don't think any political party can reflect the myriad viewpoints of people in this country in large enough numbers to be said to democratically represent the people. I think we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the political party system which will no doubt be prolonged ad infinitum by the sheer fear of the main political parties to accept this and to ever consider relinquishing their stranglehold on power in this country.

In the meantime, whatever the outcome of this election hopefully some positives will arise. Scottish Labour will almost certainly be forced to reinvent themselves, and perhaps face up to where they went so ghastly wrong which can only be positive for the future of any Labour movement nationwide. The times they are a changin - scary, uncertain and invigorating, but always there is hope.

http://www.optimo.co.uk/blog/index.php

I highlighted my fave part.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:22 (six years ago) link

Not sure how big a factor UKIP will be. Lots of places in their Kent / Essex / East Anglia heartland they're polling relatively strongly (15%+) have massive Tory leads so there's no real prospect of vote splitting. There are a few (like Waveney) where they might cost the Conservatives seats but i suspect there'll be more cases of them pushing Labour into 3rd than contributing to the Tories coming second.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:23 (six years ago) link

Plus Europe is not as big a deal in a general election.

Europe no, immigration (and any social problems blamed on it) yes.

I don't think UKIP's positioning itself as a "respectable" BNP has helped much for the same reason the BNP have not had much parliamentary electoral success.

another understated post from (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:56 (six years ago) link

On the Today programme this morning Gus O’Donnell (or Lord O’Donnell, as he is now), the former cabinet secretary, made it clear that there is nothing illegitimate about the second largest party in the Commons forming a government provided it can command the confidence of the Commons. Tories are challenging this idea, and it is due to become a central issue of debate after the election.

O’Donnell said that David Cameron himself had signed off on the rules that say the government does not have to be led by the largest party.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 12:59 (six years ago) link

The question of whether it's legal (it is and always has been) and whether it's legitimate (a matter of opinion) are different but it does highlight how ridiculous it is that there's no formal constitution that can be referred to. Vernon Bogdanor will make out like a bandit in interview fees either way.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:05 (six years ago) link

^^ Papers won't care about legality as long as they can insinuate.

UKIP's positioning has been helped by the massive amount of screen time lavished on them by the BBC, for example. They don't mind the 'BNP in Blazers' as long as they keep the blazers on.

As a sidebar, the UKIP website only mentions the BNP in passing, relating to the expulsion of two UKIP members who were existing BNP members. The BNP website has a length explanation of why you should stick with them instead of going UKIP, which amusingly includes the fact that UKIP are free marketers, whereas the BNP has the most sweeping series of nationalisation plans of any major party (+the BNP).

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:10 (six years ago) link

thing is for both parties that the set of racists and EU-haters is much smaller than the set of people who let those passions determine their votes

another understated post from (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:16 (six years ago) link

The BNP have virtually disappeared from political discourse over the last few years, although support for extreme RW parties usually drains away during periods of Tory government, or the early years of one at least.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:19 (six years ago) link

YouGov's Anthony Wells make his prediction

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9377

As it is though, my personal best guess is Conservatives around 277 seats, Labour around 267, the Lib Dems around 29 and the SNP around 52. I’ll revisit those once we have the final polls.

djmartian, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:19 (six years ago) link

xp

UKIP have v deliberately focused on immigration rather than the EU per se tho, which is where I draw the connections

another understated post from (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:20 (six years ago) link

SNP wont get more than 40. Tactical voting is in play up here to keep them out. (never thought id see the day tory and labour voters combining but then again after the last 2 years we saw the true colours)

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:22 (six years ago) link

The fact they might still get 40 shows the anger against the Scottish labour party and how they are seen as red tories.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:23 (six years ago) link

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/05/three-charts-show-scotland-should-stop-whining

Nice non-inflammatory headline here.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:27 (six years ago) link

UKIP's traditional poor communications mean that their pivot away from the EU has failed to trickle down to, er, Nigel Farage.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 13:48 (six years ago) link

(xp) open season on Scots basically, left, right and centre, makes you proud to be British!

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 14:13 (six years ago) link

In Basingstoke today. There's a UKIP 'shop' in the town centre. The local UKIP candidate also runs an antique shop around the corner and recently handed in his son to the police for stealing antiques from him. The son is also a member of Basingstoke and Dean Council.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2990572/Ukip-candidate-hands-son-police-discovering-stock-antiques-shop-stolen.html

UKIP are a remarkably spivvy group, aren't they?

Fizzles, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 14:26 (six years ago) link

I'm not really receptive to all this SNP-bashing, but I feel like "last time I got all caught up in a massive landslide it turned out my expectations were naive" is not really the best way to begin explaining why you're voting SNP this time round.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 14:50 (six years ago) link

Not sure what that's in reference to, but I think that factor probably hurts the Greens far more than the SNP.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 14:55 (six years ago) link

That widely-anticipated Green Party landslide, yes.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 14:57 (six years ago) link

My disappointment with Labour peaked under Blair but I stuck with them because I like my local MP. I can't imagine only turning away from them now, when the leader is more left-wing than the previous two. But then I don't have the SNP as an option.

Continue your brooding monologue (Re-Make/Re-Model), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 14:58 (six years ago) link

The SNP aren't that left wing either, btw this Red Tories thing is like 'Tony Bliar', annoying and stupid.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:01 (six years ago) link

You hear that quite a lot, but the party membership has been swollen beyond all recognition by the influx of much more left-wing Scots, and while some of them might drift away, the numbers are so huge that some of them will get into positions of power in the party and a lot of them will vote at conference and I think it's quickly becoming a firmly left-wing party.

Wish someone would try the same trick with the Tories. They have so few members we could probably take them over with ILXors alone.

stet, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:06 (six years ago) link

another prediction, by a bunch of academics under the banner "Polling Observatory"

including:

Dr Robert Ford, Senior Lecturer in Politics
http://www.manchester.ac.uk/research/rob.ford/personaldetails

http://may2015.com/ideas/separate-academic-forecast-tories-will-win-vote-by-2-3-points-but-miliband-most-likely-pm/
Polling Observatory is Robert Ford, Will Jennings, Mark Pickup and Christopher Wlezien.

Tory — 274 (251-305)
Labour — 272 (244-295)
SNP — 54 (46-58)
Lib Dem — 24 (18-29)
Ukip — 2 (1-4)
Others — 6
Northern Ireland — 18

there are another 5 sets of different predictions @
http://may2015.com/category/seat-calculator/

bbc newsnight are using:
http://www.electionforecast.co.uk/
3 academics
Chris Hanretty, University of East Anglia
Benjamin Lauderdale, London School of Economics
Nick Vivyan, Durham University

twitter: https://twitter.com/Election4castUK
they normally update at midnight, so a final prediction to come

djmartian, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:08 (six years ago) link

miliband plank

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:10 (six years ago) link

while they're not that left wing i've been a bit taken aback lately to see that some ppl still use "tartan tories" as their go-to snp insult, like it's just a generic epithet detached from any etymology

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:11 (six years ago) link

The SNP are able to look more left-wing than they generally have been because of the extent to which British politics (and what is ludicrously still called the "centre ground") has drifted so far to the right.

You do get a general sense of a desperate widespread need to *believe* in a political party, that just doesn't exist in England right now, but also makes me wonder how a credible anti-austerity party would fare in England. But there's no infrastructure for that to happen right now, Scotland has been lucky to have an established, well-funded vehicle for that momentum sitting there already.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:12 (six years ago) link

Ah right Matt, you meant Labour, sorry - I thought it was a reference to the Clegg Mania last time.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:13 (six years ago) link

Labour doing a lot better there than almost any other prediction I've seen of late. So if a lot of auld yins shuffle down to the polling booth to burst SNP's bubble (or partially deflated it), as they did in the referendum, Labour should be the largest party?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:14 (six years ago) link

I can't take SNP seriously as a left-wing alternative until they give that creep Brian Soutar his million quid back.

camp event (suzy), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:24 (six years ago) link

also makes me wonder how a credible anti-austerity party would fare in England

or a left-wing Brexit party

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:39 (six years ago) link

Every poll has been saying SNP = 50. In the last day or two people have been saying there is no way they will get this much. Does seem to be just a feeling..

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:39 (six years ago) link

Ladbrokes now calling it for Cameron

stet, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:40 (six years ago) link

Johnson, who is standing for election in Uxbridge and South Ruislip, has been deployed daily to at least 20 tight seats

*snicker*

bizarro gazzara, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 15:56 (six years ago) link

re: or a left-wing Brexit party

an attempt was made a few years ago by Professor Alan Sked, to form a new party, called New Deal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal_(British_political_party)

but the leader had an illness and the project was placed on hold.

djmartian, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 16:05 (six years ago) link

the cabinet manual that cameron signed off seems pretty sensible, the griping of clegg/right-wing press seems like hot air, there is surely no mechanic or authority they cld appeal to

ogmor, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 17:23 (six years ago) link

According to The Times our Queen is gonna sort it.

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 21:41 (six years ago) link

Final polls. Tories look fucked but its about seats:

SV: CON 33 LAB 33
YG: CON 34 LAB 34
CR: CON 35 LAB 34
ICM: CON 35 LAB 35
PB: LAB 33 CON 31

xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 21:42 (six years ago) link

more on...

Final Polls
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9403

djmartian, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 21:48 (six years ago) link

If this plays out as widely expected we are about to experience the most monumental collective hissy fit in recent memory.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 22:19 (six years ago) link

Doesn't anyone think the UK should follow France and others in banning opinion polling after an election date has been announced?

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 22:41 (six years ago) link

I thought about this today, but there's some good comes of it, isn't there? You can see it spurring "oh shit this is really tight I need to vote"-type thinking, as well as giving a good steer for tactical voters.

But on the other hand it would have been a hilarious surprise if the SNP had swept all the Scottish seats when nobody had really been expecting it.

stet, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 23:31 (six years ago) link

Definitely! But of course the polls themselves are driving it to a large extent.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 23:54 (six years ago) link

Election results would be very different without polling in the month leading up to them. I'm 100% for banning them.

stirmonster, Thursday, 7 May 2015 01:02 (six years ago) link

i was expecting something more along the Kinnock/ lightbulb lines for Ed in The S*n this morning. i guess yesterday's bacon sandwich thing was the best they could muster. arseholes.

piscesx, Thursday, 7 May 2015 02:20 (six years ago) link

They're saving the worst until after the election.

AlanSmithee, Thursday, 7 May 2015 05:41 (six years ago) link

yeah, the big push will be for destabilizing any non-Tory government that attempts to form next week

another understated post from (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 05:49 (six years ago) link

having said that, i feel a Tory government coming on

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 05:55 (six years ago) link

Opinion polls are a useful counterweight to a tabloid press telling us what the voters think. Banning them would lead to a different kind of confirmation bias I feel.

France also has two rounds of voting, which makes it a significantly different case.

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 07:20 (six years ago) link

I think that's probably right.

I grudgingly voted for Labour at 7am but have a similar feeling to NV. I think low turnout + reliability of the crotchety pensioner vote + over-prediction of LD collapse + awfulness of Scottish Labour + fear of instability will give the Tories an approx 40 seat lead over Labour and just get an unstable coalition over the line. My other half (who is much closer to the insider talk) thinks the Tories will have a single-digit lead over Labour and Miliband will be PM.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 07:30 (six years ago) link

Very nearly gave the 'Cannabis is Less Harmful Than Alcohol' candidate my vote, but had to go SNP in end.

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 7 May 2015 07:36 (six years ago) link

Will there be low turnout? I'm thinking it might well be higher than the last couple.

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 07:47 (six years ago) link

It has been 59% - 65% for the last three elections and i'm not really getting a sense that it's likely to be much more than that. It's been an uninspiring, low-key campaign without vast amounts of policy differentiation. I think there will be a proportion of disaffected returning / first-time voters but a lot of them will be gravitating towards UKIP and won't have a huge impact on the results. I'd like to imagine that the toxicity of the Conservatives will motivate a strong Labour turnout but i'm less confident of that now than i would have been a couple of years ago.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 07:59 (six years ago) link

idk, it's all guesswork, but i have a fiver on it being in the low sixties.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:01 (six years ago) link

If this plays out as widely expected we are about to experience the most monumental collective hissy fit in recent memory.

this is honestly going to be hell. "coalition of the losers" etc etc. it's going to be the most unseemly few weeks. is it too much to ask just to have some decent local system to vote in, based on issues you care about in your area, and abandon this farcical personality contest?

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:18 (six years ago) link

Good luck UK.

Decided I didn't want to vote for a party that included the SWP so I voted Green. If Stella Creasy loses by 1 vote I may regret that but n/m.

Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:23 (six years ago) link

Graun piece nicely bleak about the "coup" http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/06/tories-coup-legitimacy-democratic-ed-miliband-government-labour

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:25 (six years ago) link

TUSC ended their pamphlet with a hearty 'FREE PALESTINE', thus cementing my Green vote

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:25 (six years ago) link

I am hoping/suspecting it will be too close to really pull that one off though. Single digit lead, say. Xp

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:27 (six years ago) link

In America, higher turnouts favour the left so I wonder if the same applies here?

Guardian were reporting a potential higher turnout than normal based on their polling, where 73 per cent of respondents said they were 10/10 likely to vote. Also, looking at Scotland's high turnout might have inspired people? /idealism

camp event (suzy), Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:27 (six years ago) link

I'm mostly basing my (complete finger-in-the-wind) prediction on the fact that the smaller parties are considerably more prominent than they used to be, no idea if that will actually play out though.

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:29 (six years ago) link

The "coup" talk that has sprung up is ridiculous. If the numbers are there hissy fit or not there is nothing anyone can do.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:33 (six years ago) link

it's completely ludicrous and undemocratic. if your party is a toxic bunch of pricks that nobody wants to work with, and you can't get a majority, here's a tip, maybe dilute some of your poison.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:45 (six years ago) link

They've tried that, they're just fundamentally incapable of doing so.

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 08:47 (six years ago) link

(don't need to tell anyone here this but) I like these increased prominence of smaller parties but it's pretty frustrating that all those votes go in the bin under FPTP and it feels like there's no way we will ever get a better system.

Wonder if even the Lib Dems support electoral reform now or if they've worked out that a sizeable chunk of their votes this time round are from people who'd rather vote for a smaller party who hasn't betrayed them but voted for a status quo party as the only chance to keep ___ out locally, while knowing that their vote would happily prop up whoever ___ is if it comes to it anyway

undergraduate dance (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:03 (six years ago) link

will whoever wins not try and change the system now? i read a few articles saying that's why this election is so pivotal, that the winner will either try and open things up or in the tories' case, reduce the number of mps to gerrymander their way towards more power.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:06 (six years ago) link

UKIP getting 15% of the vote and ending up with one seat might give the right-wing press the impetus to back reform.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:16 (six years ago) link

xps: But also argue with what that piece contends, that there are any moves to provoke a quite comfy "very British" coup -- more Agatha Christie than Allende or something. Yes the right-wing press will try and distabilize but from what I can tell if an anti-Tory coalition gets quite a few seats over the line then its all huffing and puffing. If its like a seat over then its unstable anyway.

The "coup" is also reliant on Cameron really staying at all costs but if the Tories poll below 280 seats...he is shameless, but he has also looked tired.

A lot of the press barons have been really rattled by this election. I've actually been partially pleased by the headlines as the viciousness looks desperate.

If this is all bad, and the morning (and few weeks after) will be even worse then get ready to do this more often. There could be an election in July. Even then I don't think whatever government emerges would survive the full-term anyway. I'd say get ready to do more often.

Maybe the Queen will sort it out.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:21 (six years ago) link

xps I'm just a bit gloomy about the chances of any real progress happening when whichever party leads the govt has been favoured by the two-party cycle of FPTP for so long.

If it's a Labour-led govt I suppose there's some small chance of progress; not so keen on the Tory gerrymandering option, obv, especially as my local seat already had the student wards shaved off it and replaced by more right-leaning villages last time round.

xxp "UKIP getting 15% of the vote and ending up with one seat might give the right-wing press the impetus to back reform." true I guess. maybe I shouldn't be so keen on reform after all!

undergraduate dance (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:23 (six years ago) link

I'm all for PR, though my one fear is a system that would allow endless hilarious facebook campaigns to make zippy off rainbow PM etc

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:25 (six years ago) link

ha oh god i have seen the future and i wish to go back to bed, forever

undergraduate dance (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:29 (six years ago) link

the winner will either try and open things up or in the tories' case, reduce the number of mps to gerrymander their way towards more power

Extremely unlikely they'd be able to do this without a majority, the LibDems have already shot down one gerrymandering attempt in the last five years.

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:30 (six years ago) link

http://www.theargus.co.uk/resources/images/3734588.jpg

Daily Express beating the drum for patriotism, but not that sort of patriotism. Also free mugs.

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:49 (six years ago) link

"the worlds greatest newspaper"

how is that even allowed ?

mark e, Thursday, 7 May 2015 09:55 (six years ago) link

plus that tatty rom-com book that was popular 5 years ago for a quid. Real England.

piscesx, Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:02 (six years ago) link

xpost
In the same way that the Rolling Stones are the world's greatest rock'n'roll band, or Fantastic Four is the world's greatest comic magazine

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:03 (six years ago) link

plus that tatty rom-com book that was popular 5 years ago for a quid.

initiating a price war with oxfam there

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:07 (six years ago) link

what the hell

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:25 (six years ago) link

LOL, Glaswegians: have your choice of murdery killer or Red Hand of Ulster.

camp event (suzy), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:29 (six years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEZK3i9W0AAV4SB.jpg:large

meanwhile in tower hamlets

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:29 (six years ago) link

wonder is that islamic fundamentalists or racists, or lutfur rahman on a triple bluff

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:30 (six years ago) link

is it me, or have such hand/paint pics become more of an election meme this time more than before, or, have i just never noticed them before ?

mark e, Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:31 (six years ago) link

love the "Do Not Stick In Prohibited Places" warning there, which surely completely contradicts everything written below

jamiesummerz, Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:34 (six years ago) link

allah leaves the minor admin tasks for his subjects

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:36 (six years ago) link

he's more into the big stuff

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:36 (six years ago) link

has farage done any posing with children at all? can't remember seeing any such photos, assume most parents would be up in arms if he turned up at their school

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:38 (six years ago) link

I'd imagine his odour (fags, stale beer, wank) would make most children weep

NotKnowPotato (stevie), Thursday, 7 May 2015 10:51 (six years ago) link

They let Boris near their kids and I shudder to think what he smells like.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:22 (six years ago) link

The last few polls are showing Labour a point or so in the lead, which in practice probably means the Tories will have more seats but with a much narrower lead.

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:41 (six years ago) link

And yet it was taken as read that FPTP, with the current boundaries, favoured Labour and disadvantaged the Tories. However that was before Labour contrived to lose all their seats to the SNP.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:50 (six years ago) link

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEZoYLmW0AIgr9J.jpg

Can someone Photoshop a gunfinger onto that one?

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:52 (six years ago) link

Darlington constituency have apparently omitted one or more of the parliamentary candidates.

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:53 (six years ago) link

.. from the ballot paper

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Thursday, 7 May 2015 11:54 (six years ago) link

tory weather in much of the midlands :-(

i live abroad & despite applying months ago and receiving a confirmation letter, i never received my postal ballot. fuck you tower hamlets

tpp, Thursday, 7 May 2015 12:31 (six years ago) link

If they eventually decide to end FPTP then I'll have to think about actually voting, have managed to avoid having to bother up until now due to the constituency I live in.

pandemic, Thursday, 7 May 2015 12:38 (six years ago) link

Very nearly gave the 'Cannabis is Less Harmful Than Alcohol' candidate my vote, but had to go SNP in end.

― sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler),

Wait a min, is someone really standing on that ticket (you must live in the west end then?) or was it just something he said personally?

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Thursday, 7 May 2015 12:41 (six years ago) link

i live in an easy tory seat (polls = well over 50%), so umm'ing and ahh'ing re tactical voting options.

mark e, Thursday, 7 May 2015 12:43 (six years ago) link

We had a 'Cannabis is Less Harmful Than Alcohol' candidate, too (Islington South and Finsbury).

I also got to vote in Hampstead and Kilburn, proxy voting on behalf of a friend living in Berlin and not trusting the postal vote system (probably with good reason, based on tpp's post and other things I've heard).

toby, Thursday, 7 May 2015 12:46 (six years ago) link

I'm in the East End of Glasgow (and I should've called them the 'Cannabis is Safer Than Alcohol' party)

sʌxihɔːl (Ward Fowler), Thursday, 7 May 2015 12:52 (six years ago) link

We've got one of them in Paisley & Renfrewshire North as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_Is_Safer_Than_Alcohol#Scotland

ailsa, Thursday, 7 May 2015 12:59 (six years ago) link

i live abroad & despite applying months ago and receiving a confirmation letter, i never received my postal ballot. fuck you tower hamlets

saw many people complaining about this on twitter - it's par for the course. tower hamlets council doesn't respond to contact of any form - i mean literally, you can't phone them, they don't answer emails, they just send letters and absorb your responses into the void.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 13:15 (six years ago) link

London-based folk: any suggestions on good (non-partisan) communal places to watch the results come in? I don't have a TV at home and the radio doesn't quite cut it. Availability of alcohol (or indeed cannabis) not essential.

Jeff W, Thursday, 7 May 2015 14:22 (six years ago) link

Non-partisan? Christ, can you imagine being in a pub with Tories if they're winning?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 14:24 (six years ago) link

quite impressed by how many candidates the cannabis is safer than alcohol party have managed to put forward, maybe by the next election they'll be the ukip of the left

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 7 May 2015 14:27 (six years ago) link

They certainly wouldn't get my vote, I detest that puritanical anti-drinking "My high is better than your high" line of argument. Fucking hippies.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 14:35 (six years ago) link

Folk acquainted with Paisley will not be surprised to hear that our Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol candidate is a resident of Ferguslie Park.

Our LibDem never put his address on the ballot paper. Our Tory has been imported from the Borders.

One single canvasser outside the polling station, a really smiley Nat. Labour left a sandwich board. Nothing from any the rest of them.

ailsa, Thursday, 7 May 2015 14:46 (six years ago) link

She hasn't provided any proof has she?

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Thursday, 7 May 2015 15:15 (six years ago) link

saw this on twitter

http://i.imgur.com/038gKiO.jpg

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Thursday, 7 May 2015 15:19 (six years ago) link

I'm voting for the 'Losing a little toe is safer than losing a little finger party'

Chewshabadoo, Thursday, 7 May 2015 15:19 (six years ago) link

what 'certain party' is she referring to? xps

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 15:20 (six years ago) link

good luck uk

mookieproof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 15:23 (six years ago) link

political folk song of the year

Sack Esther McVey - Alun Parry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi9XM-GtPhI

hopefully "The wicked witch of the Wirral's had her day"

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 15:36 (six years ago) link

She would be my #1 choice if i could choose which tory lost a seat (assuming someone else picked IDS)

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Thursday, 7 May 2015 15:55 (six years ago) link

done the deed.
feel a bit dirty now.
also, found out on that our 'local' labour candidate lives 100 miles from here.
probably has never even visited out little town.
guess that just indicates that labour have no interest in fighting for this bluer than blue area.

mark e, Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:19 (six years ago) link

Actual IRL LOL: our local Cannabis Party candidate is named Artificial Beast.

I almost voted for him, solely because of that. (But no, he wasn't even local.)

The Hauntology of Celebrity (Branwell with an N), Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:21 (six years ago) link

Artifical Beast is his DJ name apparently. Any fucking money he's a psytrance DJ.

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:25 (six years ago) link

https://yournextmp.com/numbers/parties

some of the fringe parties on here are brilliant, if i wasn't already too giggly and excitable i'd be polling this shit.

three words: Vapers in Power

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:31 (six years ago) link

Beer, Baccy and Scratchings ftw

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:49 (six years ago) link

Beer, Baccy and Scratchings Are Not Safer Than Cannabis

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:50 (six years ago) link

Come on you reds

Turtleneck Work Solutions (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:52 (six years ago) link

We will also push to end the dangerous situation whereby 5V chargers and 4.2V chargers can be used interchangeably

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:52 (six years ago) link

so this looks like the usual MRA whining but the pledges under "As well as..." did me make me laugh out loud at work this afty

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:55 (six years ago) link

Capitalizaton of It is a neat touch.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 16:58 (six years ago) link

Most crazy candidate standing in the election, meet..

Susan-Anne White's Biblically Correct Independent Manifesto
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/27/criminalise-homosexuality-ban-abortion-and-punish-adultery-susan-anne-whites-biblically-correct-independent-manifesto_n_7152856.html?1430150232

Crazy Ultra Conservative Christian manifesto by Susan-Anne White standing in Northern Ireland

read the details of a stir crazy mix manifesto of... back to the trad social conservative 1950s + B-N-P + UKIP get out of Europe + US Christian Fundamentalists inc. No Abortion, No Adultery + Putin's Anti-Gay Russia + Britain First Anti-Islam + climate change deniers + Woman stays in the Kitchen / Home, Man is the Breadwinner

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 17:07 (six years ago) link

I'm interested in the idea of building a 1960s housing estate in the 21st century, has a sort of town planner Pierre Menard vibe.

Then put new road signs up. XD

t/s - religious bigotry or trivializing mental illness

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 17:13 (six years ago) link

quite impressed by how many candidates the cannabis is safer than alcohol party have managed to put forward

Actual lols in the voting booth.

Hugh G. Wreckjoke (snoball), Thursday, 7 May 2015 17:56 (six years ago) link

What did the hamlet of Dean ever do to Bobby Smith?

NotKnowPotato (stevie), Thursday, 7 May 2015 18:24 (six years ago) link

(i assume the sad answer is that his evil ex lives there, but who knows?)

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 18:25 (six years ago) link

Was going to say, I can guess what family lawyers have done to him.

NotKnowPotato (stevie), Thursday, 7 May 2015 18:26 (six years ago) link

£7 an hour pay cap still made me lol

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 18:27 (six years ago) link

useful later? http://principalfish.co.uk/election2015/live/

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 19:36 (six years ago) link

Will be if there's none of these left when I pop out: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206892407567317&set=a.3105108545281.159477.1191270660&type=1

michaellambert, Thursday, 7 May 2015 19:39 (six years ago) link

Folk acquainted with Paisley will not be surprised to hear that our Cannabis Is Safer Than Alcohol candidate is a resident of Ferguslie Park.

why is he standing in Paisley North not Paisley South? Granted, we don't even have a Green candidate here, but still...

boxedjoy, Thursday, 7 May 2015 19:53 (six years ago) link

some anecdotal suggestions that turnout has been good?

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 19:54 (six years ago) link

My local polling station was mobbed (relatively).

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 20:11 (six years ago) link

Mine said when i went after 2 that turnout had been good but way down on the referendum(95% voted there last year) but he said still a good turnout based on previous ones plus it would get really busy later on when people finish work.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Thursday, 7 May 2015 20:17 (six years ago) link

i saw two other people voting in govan which is a better turnout than i've ever seen here

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 7 May 2015 20:20 (six years ago) link

71% had voted at my polling station with an hour to go.

mea nulta (onimo), Thursday, 7 May 2015 20:40 (six years ago) link

betfred paid up on tories getting most seats an hour ago. Assume there must be an exit poll

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Thursday, 7 May 2015 20:59 (six years ago) link

Jesus, BBC exit poll:

Tories 316
Labour 239
SNP 58
Lib Dems 10

... garbage surely?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:01 (six years ago) link

how wrong can it be?

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:02 (six years ago) link

What the fucking fuck?

Turtleneck Work Solutions (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:03 (six years ago) link

Thought it would be a big lead but not that big.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:03 (six years ago) link

o_0

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:04 (six years ago) link

FUCK

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:04 (six years ago) link

guys i may have to go and hide all the sharp things in the house

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:05 (six years ago) link

Idk why people are saying 326 is the requirement when Sinn Feinn don't take their seats.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:05 (six years ago) link

Labour, you're and embarrassment, get tae fuck.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:06 (six years ago) link

323 is more like it, Tories at anything like 300 + can form a workable enough coalition

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:06 (six years ago) link

Not even the annihilation of the Lib Dems can lift my spirits.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:08 (six years ago) link

as much as it pains me to say this,

but given my straw poll via FB/pub/friends etc, the tories have it.

of course i do live in a very blue groove area, but still my FB feed has been full of mail/express/telegraph media fed bullshit ..

hence tonight i am getting drunk.

tomorrow is going to be unpleasant.

(i will be in the pub for the day .. either way it goes, it seems appropriate)

mark e, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:09 (six years ago) link

agree with Tom, this is souring what shd be a glorious evening

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:10 (six years ago) link

that exit poll could be completely wrong of course... maybe it could even worse :(

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:11 (six years ago) link

Single figures would be better tbf (xp)

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:11 (six years ago) link

poor Nick Robinson already cheered himself hoarse

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:12 (six years ago) link

i feel bad enough to watch Al Murray on Dave right now

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:12 (six years ago) link

oh good counting races what fun

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:12 (six years ago) link

Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 4m4 minutes ago

Breaking: YouGov exit poll - CON 284 MPs, LAB 263, LIBS 31, SNP 48, UKIP 2, PLAID 3, GREEN 1

^ that's more like it

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:13 (six years ago) link

Uhhhh, that's quite a difference.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:14 (six years ago) link

BBC, you're an embarrassment, get tae fuck.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:14 (six years ago) link

sixth formers scurrying around with ballot boxes

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:14 (six years ago) link

i needed that Yougov poll

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:16 (six years ago) link

Well, one group of pollsters is for the high jump after this.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:18 (six years ago) link

yeah, rooting for the yougov lads & lasses here

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:18 (six years ago) link

Come on Yougov, you can do it!

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:19 (six years ago) link

i liked the game young ones running the ballot boxes as lovingly narrated by fiona bruce, i want more of this

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:19 (six years ago) link

come on you gov xp

List of people who are ready for woe and how we know this (seandalai), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:19 (six years ago) link

can someone explain to me under what scenarios the Tories don't come out as the ruling party

Οὖτις, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:19 (six years ago) link

Yougov sample size is less than a third of BBC and idk about its methodology.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:21 (six years ago) link

xp

broadly speaking - if between them and their possible coalition partners they don't have somewhere in the region of 320 seats

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:21 (six years ago) link

They could probably govern on their own with 316, tbh.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:22 (six years ago) link

Definitely.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:22 (six years ago) link

yeah sure

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:23 (six years ago) link

their possible coalition partners is not many, whatever happens

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:24 (six years ago) link

starting to wonder whether smashed Lib Dems and Tory gov isn't better than unsmashed LDs and more fragile Tory gov, if those are the two most likely outcomes

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:25 (six years ago) link

They could probably govern on their own with 316

ok well since they seem well short of 316 I guess I'm asking who their coalition partners would be. I know the UKIP are insane racist rightwingers and the Greens are obviously on Labour's side but I'm not familiar with the allegiances of the Lib Dems and SNP

xp

Οὖτις, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:25 (six years ago) link

They've been in coalition with the Lib Dems for the last 5 years.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:26 (six years ago) link

A lot depends on Clegg. If he loses his seat, the reformed LDs will go to Labour, I think. YouGov poll does give coalition a slim majority, mind

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:26 (six years ago) link

the BBC exit poll gives the Tories 316. UKIP will maybe get 2 seats and wouldn't go into formal coalition with them. The Northern Irish Unionist parties wd be likely to broadly support them on most issues

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:27 (six years ago) link

Nate Silvet dubious about that exit poll.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:27 (six years ago) link

Silver

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:28 (six years ago) link

i don't believe whoever's left in charge of the Lib Dems will be able to deliver all their surviving MPs to the Tories

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:28 (six years ago) link

The BBC one I mean

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:29 (six years ago) link

bbc exit poll from last time round was bang-on, sadly, iirc

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:29 (six years ago) link

Hmm, I think I will not be watching the results roll in tonight, no point.

Might get up early to see that Farage didn't win his seat

Mark G, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:29 (six years ago) link

if the bbc poll is accurate, what happens next for labour?

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:31 (six years ago) link

(xp) Was hoping for Clegg, Farage and Alex Salmond to fail, it'll probably only be Farage :(

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:32 (six years ago) link

not sure if that poll is right that Labour are way off expectations, bar a bigger thrashing in Scotland than predicted, so either write off Scotland or stop being right wing cunts, i dunno, they've been dead for 20 years

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:32 (six years ago) link

The methodology was a lot easier last time; they've had to pick new stations and new marginal seats to poll this time xp

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:33 (six years ago) link

when are we getting results?

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:34 (six years ago) link

It goes on slowly throughout the night and into tomorrow morning.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:35 (six years ago) link

never before understood the appeal of drinking alone but that bbc exit poll gave me the immediate desire to get a bottle of wine doon me

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:35 (six years ago) link

lol i nearly ran to Tescos

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:35 (six years ago) link

I did 30 minutes ago. Fuck, Andrew Marr, Tory wankers out in force tonight.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:36 (six years ago) link

cd've sworn Marr was a Blairite oh wait

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:37 (six years ago) link

Oh Jeremy, you can do wit but you can't do jokes...

Mark G, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:39 (six years ago) link

YouGov Exit poll

labour / social democrat tally - anti-tory

Labour 263
SNP 48
Plaid 3
Green 1

315

more
SDLP 3? 2?
Respect 1?

with the lib dems as kingmakers? which way though ?
with the tories make 315
with the labour / social democrat / left 349/350 ish

liberal democrats don't want to join dup / ukip in a tory coalition - numbers fall short

however they also said no to joining labour with snp in any deal?

therefore no government outcome ? on yougov exit poll

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:39 (six years ago) link

Could we see Scottish Lab breaking away following this - five years to shift left and recapture Nat votes then formal coalition with nu Lab?

mea nulta (onimo), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:41 (six years ago) link

Wasn't an exit poll, sadly

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:41 (six years ago) link

Yep. Just got back in touch with 6k people they had previously polled to see if they changed their mind.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:42 (six years ago) link

the yougov exit poll has a sample size of 6000 compared to the bbc's 22,000.

;_;

prolego, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:42 (six years ago) link

and it's not even an exit poll

prolego, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:43 (six years ago) link

Paul Nuttall's only 38?

soref, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:46 (six years ago) link

i'm worried Yorkshire First mayn't win their target seats now

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:47 (six years ago) link

electoral calculus who had the best exit poll in 2010:

con = 280

lab = 274

lib dem = 21

snp = 52

prolego, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:49 (six years ago) link

Exit polls are usually pretty accurate, so now might be a good time to start despairing.

Matt DC, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:51 (six years ago) link

that Lib Dem guy did a great face

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:51 (six years ago) link

solid 5th place for the Lib Dems there

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:52 (six years ago) link

John Curtice seems like a very nice man so it is with sadness that I find myself hoping that his career comes to an ignominious end after tonight.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:53 (six years ago) link

the fact that the BBC's front of house election team are all Tories leaves us with the faint hope that whoever did the exit poll got carried away in a surge of blue patriotism

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:53 (six years ago) link

unrepresentative sample, I pray to you

SurfaceKrystal, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:54 (six years ago) link

haaa, tom

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:57 (six years ago) link

lost deposit, start as you mean to go on lib dems

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:57 (six years ago) link

Kirsty trying to cheer me up there by saying Danny Alexander and Douglas Alexander are likely to lose their seats.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 21:59 (six years ago) link

BBC suggesting Balls out.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:00 (six years ago) link

that so-called yougov poll wasn't true then?

lex pretend, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:01 (six years ago) link

this is maybe the first time i've ever seen alistair campbell appear and felt slightly comforted

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:01 (six years ago) link

YouGov ‏@YouGov 32m32 minutes ago

YouGov has not done an exit poll. A re-contact survey today simply gave us no reason to change our final numbers from yesterday.

???

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:03 (six years ago) link

OK GOD I WILL TRADE ANOTHER 5 YEARS OF THE TORIES FOR ED BALLS LOSING HIS SEAT

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:03 (six years ago) link

and here I was going to live on coffee for the next 18 hours..

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:05 (six years ago) link

NV = evil personified, but, with a valid reasoning.

mark e, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:06 (six years ago) link

pray that you're getting rid of a total cock, turns out you've lost your balls instead

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:06 (six years ago) link

I'm not british, and I pretty much expected the worst. Elections in UK are always the worst. I'm still going to get a beer right now. Ugh.

Frederik B, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:06 (six years ago) link

yeah so yougov were just sticking with their previous poll. but this means that every single polling company has got this election drastically wrong.

prolego, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:07 (six years ago) link

ok so can anyone tell me what is the first result that could give an indication as to whether the exit poll is right?

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:08 (six years ago) link

nope, you need a marginal seat

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:09 (six years ago) link

ok Ashdown's just offered to eat a hat, this evening's hotting up

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:09 (six years ago) link

That happened a while ago, NV

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:09 (six years ago) link

for the first result:

EXIT POLL numbers:
Lab 59%
Con: 20%
UKIP: 16%
Green: 3%
Lib Dem: 2%

ACTUAL numbers:

Lab 55%
Con: 18%
UKIP: 22%
Green: 3%
Lib Dem: 2%

so looks accurate and labour might be doing even worse

prolego, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:10 (six years ago) link

xp must have missed it first time while i was locking up the kitchen knives

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:11 (six years ago) link

I'm fucking shellshocked here. A Tory government propped up by the DUP is just about the worst outcome that was considered even remotely plausible before the exit poll.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:11 (six years ago) link

yeah so yougov were just sticking with their previous poll. but this means that every single polling company has got this election drastically wrong.

or possibly that the British public are liars

or that the Telegraph's sweat-drenched 1am e-mails are incredibly effective

Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:12 (six years ago) link

one weird - or new - thing is that there still seems to have been high turnout in marginals - this doesn't historically favour the Tories

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:13 (six years ago) link

idk what is happening a woman is walking on a giant multicoloured uk.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:14 (six years ago) link

useful link

declaration times
http://democraticdashboard.com/explorer/declaration-times/

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:16 (six years ago) link

solid 5th for the Lib Dems there

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:16 (six years ago) link

It will be interesting to get a a sense of the demographics. I have a suspicion that they might have done much better than normal with 18-35s who would have been put off by the harder social conservatism of previous incarnations.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:16 (six years ago) link

nothing is going to make me feel any better right now is it

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:18 (six years ago) link

UKIP and SNP are really going to have been fucking with the exit poll modelling he hopes, clutching at straw.

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:18 (six years ago) link

From the 2nd result: swing from Tories to UKIP. Lab slightly up.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:19 (six years ago) link

Open invitation to the North East of England to join Scotland when Scotland becomes independent, i.e. sometime in the next 5 years.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:20 (six years ago) link

Is there a chance that people lie about UKIP voting, even in exit polls?

That's my straw and I'm clutching it

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:21 (six years ago) link

When is the first marginal coming in?

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:21 (six years ago) link

only Jeremy Vine in a cowboy hat can lift our spirits now

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:22 (six years ago) link

Exit polls are anonymous :(

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:23 (six years ago) link

Cleggy Cleggy Cleggy out out out. Cleggy out. Cleggy out.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:23 (six years ago) link

just imagine being such a morally empty shitbag that you're ashamed to admit who you voted for

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:25 (six years ago) link

FiveThirtyEight pointing out that the exit poll Lab-Con margin was off by an average of 39 seats from 1974 to 1997

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:26 (six years ago) link

Tories to be propped up by red faced (and handed) Ulstermen.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:28 (six years ago) link

yeah some nice straws to clutch at in this

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/what-the-uk-exit-poll-will-tell-us/

John Curtice, president of the British Polling Council and a FiveThirtyEight contributor, helped design the exit poll. He has said to “prepare for disappointment.” In other words, we might be heading back to the 1974 to 1997 era of major exit poll errors.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:29 (six years ago) link

this gives a list of marginals to watch for
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9377

however the website is buckling under heavy demand

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:29 (six years ago) link

Solid 5th place for the Lib Dems there

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:30 (six years ago) link

:D

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:31 (six years ago) link

that TUSC guy sticking it to the electoral process in a shocking pink t-shirt = why I didn't vote TUSC

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:32 (six years ago) link

Lab +2%
UKIP +16%
Con -3%
Green +3%
LD -14%

So from LD to UKIP.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:32 (six years ago) link

they've lost all their deposits so far. they could be financially wiped out here.

prolego, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:33 (six years ago) link

Labour are firming up their line on the exit poll. A party source says:

We are sceptical of the BBC poll. It looks wrong to us.

sure, it looks flat on the page, but what you have to consider is the deliv

Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:33 (six years ago) link

ignore 538

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:33 (six years ago) link

the group they've partnered with for this are fine, but ilx posters know more about UK polling than nate silver

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:34 (six years ago) link

watching this in new york, guess i'm going to be up when it finishes for the first time ;_;

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:34 (six years ago) link

they've lost all their deposits so far. they could be financially wiped out here.

Bless you for trying to cheer us up.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:36 (six years ago) link

I'd take Ed Balls as PM over 5 more years of this.

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:36 (six years ago) link

i am so staying up for Balls Out

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:37 (six years ago) link

Exit polls are anonymous :(

i am imagining them imagining themselves stepping into consciousness/publicity/the glare of an all-seeing-eye once they leave sanctity of the primary school gym and fill in the exit poll ballot

I'm not optimistic

thin fucking straw to grab

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:37 (six years ago) link

i keep wanting to switch this off given i can't change it

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:37 (six years ago) link

it won't be 5 more years of this, the gloves will be off. the people have spoken. let them enjoy it.

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:37 (six years ago) link

bless that DUP ghoul trying to make Cameron work for it

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:39 (six years ago) link

Sammy Wilson, the Red Face of Ulster

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:40 (six years ago) link

I feel a bit sorry for some of the Lib Dem old-stagers in the north. I had a crushingly melancholy lunch with one from Jesmond last year.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:40 (six years ago) link

MAKE IT STOP

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:40 (six years ago) link

if the tories do get in, it'll be a p weak government, right?

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:41 (six years ago) link

Tottering from one crisis to another

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:42 (six years ago) link

with only massive funneling of public money into tax havens to keep them going

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:43 (six years ago) link

with the DUP one would think its a few years. maybe not a full term, but maybe enough to 'finish the job'.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:43 (six years ago) link

feel a bit demob happy, if the BBC poll's right i give my job 12 months

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:44 (six years ago) link

Working with the Lib Dems is hardly preparation for trying to work with the DUP, those guys will have their nuts in a vice and have no compunction about applying pressure.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:45 (six years ago) link

Off the Lib Dem leash, with a claim to the backing of the public for their programme and requiring everyone including the DUP to work together to vote them down - they could be much bolder this time.

I do look forward to them having to wheel half dead MPs on hospital beds through for key votes like the Major years though.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:46 (six years ago) link

what is the situation with sinn fein and still not attending? i kind of assumed they would be attending by now?

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:46 (six years ago) link

half-dead Tory MPs, i love how everybody's trying to cheer us up tonight, it's like the Blitz

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:47 (six years ago) link

They will never attend. They do not see it as a legitimate seat of power. Xp

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:47 (six years ago) link

XP slogan isn't "might surrender eventually"

thoughts you made second posts about (darraghmac), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:48 (six years ago) link

So with 310 they'll govern, lose the odd vote (as Peter Kellner is saying) but you know 'finish the job'.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:48 (six years ago) link

Yea, that's the faint bright spot about the exit poll: as Labour are trying to say, the majority has vanished. It'd be wheeling in beds from hospitals again territory. Labour, plus the rump of the Libs and the SNP, would be able to play a pretty strong opposition.

Kellner's a Tory wank. The odd votes they'll lose will be the doozies.

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:49 (six years ago) link

but a much tighter majority?

xposts, yeah that's what i was wondering.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:50 (six years ago) link

The only votes I can see them losing are ones where there are Tory rebels - I would guess around Europe.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:51 (six years ago) link

what is the situation with sinn fein and still not attending? i kind of assumed they would be attending by now?

there's an oath of loyalty to the queen

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:51 (six years ago) link

every time they try to memorise the oath they keep failing it

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:52 (six years ago) link

gerry adams has sworn that no member of sinn fein will ever remember the oath of allegiance, as long as he lives

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:53 (six years ago) link

Christ I always hate this hot air talk between 12-2am broken up by results from NE.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:53 (six years ago) link

am pondering how aggro Neil will get if the poll starts to revise below 316 Tories

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:54 (six years ago) link

Hope you're all right - proper coup by "the losers"

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:55 (six years ago) link

Galoloway Out

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:55 (six years ago) link

So it'll take the DUP to dismantle the NHS in England? What was all that about legitimacy?

Fuck I hate the Tories.

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:56 (six years ago) link

^

sitting here in q gloomy stupor. what is this "popular vote" bullshit. oh fuck off boris.

Fizzles, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:56 (six years ago) link

i like the way labour are dismissing the poll as if positivity can change the already-cast votes

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:56 (six years ago) link

I still believe that conservative-Labour marginals are going to be more in favour of labour compared to the bbc exit poll, and surely the lib dems want be as low as 10

maybe the margin of error could be 20 / 30 seats down for the tories

tory dinosaur, michael fallon on tv doesn't understand labour + snp combined will vote against the tories

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:57 (six years ago) link

ed balls didn't look like he was dismissing it. he looked and sounded defeated.

Fizzles, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:57 (six years ago) link

i took the oath but i meant Queen Medb

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:57 (six years ago) link

he only knows what we know about exit polling so of course he sounds defeated

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:58 (six years ago) link

ed balls didn't look like he was dismissing it. he looked and sounded defeated.

SO IT's NOT ALL GLOOM

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:58 (six years ago) link

^party colours apt there lol xxp

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 22:59 (six years ago) link

Danny Alexander rumoured to be losing his seat too?

michaellambert, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:01 (six years ago) link

there's an oath of loyalty to the queen

Did this actually happen or am I going mad? I have this vague recollection of Adams and McGuiness heading to the Houses of Parliament (maybe in 1997?) and claiming some kind of office (a literal office, i.e. a room) that they were entitled to, but never actually taking up their seats. And something about taking an oath, but having their fingers crossed?

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:02 (six years ago) link

nah, i think Willy Hamilton (sp?) or one of the old guard actual left wing Labour MPs crossed his fingers once

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:03 (six years ago) link

Amazingly Fallon is actually Scottish, so we've had him, Andrew Neil, Marr and Gove on tonight. Need Fraser Nelson and/or Niall Ferguson to complete the set of right wing Scottish wankers.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:03 (six years ago) link

and Gordon Brown

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:04 (six years ago) link

would things have been different with david or steve rather than ed?

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:04 (six years ago) link

i think there was some shit about adams and mcguinness using the gym at westminster wasn't there, some minor scandal?

you didn't have to say the oath to use the hydrotherapy spa, rain room, or get a hot elemis stone massage

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:05 (six years ago) link

Danny Alexander rumoured to be losing his seat too?

he was miles behind in recent local ashcroft polls - on just 21%

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:05 (six years ago) link

Are you the *actual* djmartian?

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:08 (six years ago) link

wow peston and robinson loathe each other

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:10 (six years ago) link

hello peston, business hates uncertainty you say, novel

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:11 (six years ago) link

business euphoria.

Fizzles, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:12 (six years ago) link

well tbf peston was rejecting the idea that the business community like the convervative party per se rather than stability/status quo, which is what robinson was pushing

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:15 (six years ago) link

Are you the *actual* djmartian?

yes, the same one that started on ilxor in september 2000, and music blogger on blogspot through the 00s,

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:15 (six years ago) link

hoping that my outburst of solidarity-in-despair twitter favs and facebook likes will somehow effect change

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:16 (six years ago) link

what a blast from the past - and tonight of all nights dj xp

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:17 (six years ago) link

well tbf peston was rejecting the idea that the business community like the convervative party per se rather than stability/status quo, which is what robinson was pushing

yes and the point that for many businesses uncertainty over europe is disastrous.

Fizzles, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:17 (six years ago) link

yes exactly and then he gave robinson a death stare and they cut away

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:17 (six years ago) link

Scottish turnouts look to be pretty high again

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:18 (six years ago) link

it's weird it's like if you offer people a genuine alternative to Tory austerity they get all excitable and vote for it

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:19 (six years ago) link

yes, the same one that started on ilxor in september 2000

I can't remember you posting for years and years and years

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:19 (six years ago) link

Robinson wrong to project his own views on the Conservative Party onto the entire business community.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:19 (six years ago) link

there are many members of the business community who don't have a party preference as long as the party behaves like the Tories

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:21 (six years ago) link

^ Labour manifesto commitment 1997-2015

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:22 (six years ago) link

my step dad was a small business tory. nice person if you ignored that. literally nothing (eg QE money going nowhere near small business, tory big business favours only) wdve shaken him in his belief that tories favoured the little businessman.

Fizzles, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:23 (six years ago) link

Fuck a business community tho, right, brothers and sisters?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:23 (six years ago) link

hate doing this so you can kill me if u like:

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 3 minutes ago

33% of voters made up their mind how to vote in the last week. 11% decided today.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:24 (six years ago) link

xpost, occasional appearances on ilm end of the year polls this decade, return to ilm since last december on selective threads, your right not on ile for a long time

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:24 (six years ago) link

local tv people getting their moment in the sun, there's something for the next few hours

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:30 (six years ago) link

djm - I hear Blur have a new alb out. have you heard it? xp

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:30 (six years ago) link

always nice to see Bedworth on national TV

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:30 (six years ago) link

lol

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:31 (six years ago) link

Apparently Farage may finish third in S.Thanet, so there's that!

everything, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:31 (six years ago) link

sorry, no Blur

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:32 (six years ago) link

Interesting pedantry from constitutional lawyer Carl Gardner on Twitter. Ed doesn't have to strike any deal to become PM. Essentially, Cameron has to try to pass a Queen's Speech. If he can't get it through, Ed automatically forms the next government. With 310, it's pretty dicey to think he can pass a QS.

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:35 (six years ago) link

hurling myself aboard that liferaft, thanks stet

yeovil knievel (NickB), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:37 (six years ago) link

Theresa May terrified there by the thought of Tory backbenchers having the power they're going to have under this prediction. Tory party can't hold itself together over Europe at the best of times, and this will be the worst of them.

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:42 (six years ago) link

If they get 310, it's even less likely that Labour can pass a QS

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:43 (six years ago) link

That gets really interesting then. If all the parties that voted down the Tory bill can't find enough common ground to pass even a vanilla bill, then it's stalemate and I guess we're back to the polls

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:44 (six years ago) link

I'm ok with that.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:46 (six years ago) link

speculation that previous labour voters have moved to ukip which have mangled marginals in favour of tories. the warning signs were in that north west, Heywood & Middleton by-election last year, it seems some people have fallen for a simple message, "ukip rhetoric" - get out of europe and all are problems can be solved.

djmartian, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:47 (six years ago) link

Swing from L to C by 4%

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:49 (six years ago) link

in Swindon.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:49 (six years ago) link

hey Noodle Vague, a word on the Lib Dems' performance there?

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:50 (six years ago) link

BBC fucked up showing the results!

i'm guessing they got a solid 5th place?

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:51 (six years ago) link

we need to build a wall along the M62 and secede i think

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:51 (six years ago) link

fuck that swindon swing is tory majority territory

prolego, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:52 (six years ago) link

they were solidly 5th again, yes, although I think they were within about 15 of the greens this time

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:52 (six years ago) link

really wish i'd bought cake on the way home tonight

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:54 (six years ago) link

Glad I did but now feeling sick from ramming it all into my fat face

stet, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:55 (six years ago) link

LIB DEMS 3RD, DON'T CALL IT A COMEBACK

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:56 (six years ago) link

lib dems beat greens in putney, booooooo

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:56 (six years ago) link

I'm feeling sick and I didn't even get cake xp

List of people who are ready for woe and how we know this (seandalai), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:57 (six years ago) link

nudging ahead of greens, impressive

woof, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:57 (six years ago) link

i've done a load of washing tonight, i think that's what's taking the edge of the worst election result in history

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:57 (six years ago) link

mind you the greens beat ukip for the first time too

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:58 (six years ago) link

fuck that swindon swing is tory majority territory

― prolego, Thursday, May 7, 2015 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, sorry. Looking on the down side all round now.

Need to wait for that first marginal.

xyzzzz__, Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:58 (six years ago) link

almost finished my bottle of wine, i'm not gonna last m8s

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:59 (six years ago) link

Professor John Curtice says that the swing to the tories in swindon may mean that the exit poll is accurate

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Thursday, 7 May 2015 23:59 (six years ago) link

I had a healthy filling optimistic meal. Now I am eating a big lump of cheese and drinking wine from the bottle

woof, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:00 (six years ago) link

the really hard bit over the next few days is not throat-punching the gloating wankers you'll run across irl

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:00 (six years ago) link

makes sense. i got a new mattress today. I'm going to make my bed, and then lie in it. *like this country*

Fizzles, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:01 (six years ago) link

Big contrast between my social media bubbles tonight. England is just having a terrible and depressing night, but Scotland is facing an absolutely epochal landslide and trying to figure out what that actually means. God we could use some actual results already

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:01 (six years ago) link

Nick Robinson off home to spend the night fucking his Thatcher realdoll

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:01 (six years ago) link

I'm drinking beer and eating crunchy nut cornflakes. it's not good.

Fizzles, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:02 (six years ago) link

fuck this country to its rotten bones

woof, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:03 (six years ago) link

that's england

woof, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:03 (six years ago) link

bitter farage raised a v slight smile.

Fizzles, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:05 (six years ago) link

I still have to have dinner, fuck knows what I'll find.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:06 (six years ago) link

Swindon South is the marginal, at 3am or so.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:07 (six years ago) link

credible 4th for the Lib Dems in Newcastle, starting to pick up some momentum

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:07 (six years ago) link

i just hope vapers in power can pull off a shock

woof, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:08 (six years ago) link

trying to work out how the greens would have done with a leader who wasn't a complete embarrassment in public - maybe would have beaten ukip a few more times idk

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:09 (six years ago) link

hurrah, green > lib dem in tooting

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:12 (six years ago) link

Lesley Riddoch killing it on STV. Don't think many of the other talking heads tonight know much about the DUP or their pure cuckoo positions

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:13 (six years ago) link

lib dems should rebrand as the tooting unpopular front

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:14 (six years ago) link

Scotland is facing an absolutely epochal landslide and trying to figure out what that actually means

5 more years of Tory government

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:14 (six years ago) link

Vince Cable apparently fucked.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:15 (six years ago) link

Yeah, but them all voting Labour wouldn't have changed the UK picture anyway; it's a staggering change at home and I don't think anybody's grasped the implications of it; there are just too many.

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:17 (six years ago) link

Scottish Secretary will have to be someone from the Lords at this rate too

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:18 (six years ago) link

Don't make me cry, Neil Kinnock.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:20 (six years ago) link

Don't make me cry Curtice (poss Con majority)

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:22 (six years ago) link

i just need to watch a channel showing images of all the spoiled ballots, that might cheer me up

woof, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:24 (six years ago) link

game over man, game over

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:24 (six years ago) link

Lib Dems basically voting Tory, cunts, always were.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:24 (six years ago) link

Battersea has gone the wrong way, swing of 1.7% from L to C.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:25 (six years ago) link

See post above

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:25 (six years ago) link

Lib Dems basically voting Tory, cunts, always were.
Lib Dems basically voting Tory, cunts, always were.
Lib Dems basically voting Tory, cunts, always were.

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:26 (six years ago) link

This is seriously fucked.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:26 (six years ago) link

i guess expecting everyone to follow me from lib dem to green was fuzzy idealism

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:27 (six years ago) link

"surge to Nationalism" is such a shitty dishonest prepacked excuse

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:27 (six years ago) link

labour is doing worse than the exit poll is projecting. this is so terrible

prolego, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:27 (six years ago) link

Getting some hard realism tonight young Louie. xps

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:28 (six years ago) link

Lib Dems getting absolutely rinsed here

Keith Moom (Neil S), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:30 (six years ago) link

Just when you think the smugness quotient couldn't get any higher, first sighting of fat slug Salmond

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:31 (six years ago) link

ukip results making me angrier than labour/conservative ones, what the fuck, this is fucking idiocy

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:31 (six years ago) link

i can envisage a respected local tory mp getting votes from good people but ukip is just fucking idiocy, ugly stupid moronic idiocy

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:32 (six years ago) link

xxp probably regretting he gave up the leadership, though head of the caucus in Westminster will have its compensations I suppose

Keith Moom (Neil S), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:32 (six years ago) link

not afraid to risk an ilafl-ing from nakhers there

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:32 (six years ago) link

mark the ukip voter needs to be disembowelled live on telly

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:33 (six years ago) link

I can't really even understand Tory voting. West Londoners and posh people sure, but who the fuck else? ugh ugh

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:33 (six years ago) link

refreshingly unstereotypical Green supporter on TV there

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:33 (six years ago) link

Young people eh?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:34 (six years ago) link

guh John Sopel suggesting that Labour's campaign was "too left wing" wtf

Keith Moom (Neil S), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:36 (six years ago) link

Salmond on STV there tripping him some Churchill

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:37 (six years ago) link

personal hero & colleague of mine is a tory voter - one of the most important people i've ever met and as far as i'm concerned a brilliant individual. his reasoning is that the tory mp in his area is a local of many years' standing & is demonstrably invested in helping the constituency

in such circumstances i can fully understand a tory vote, but in no others

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:37 (six years ago) link

Ed Miliband's spokesman just called him David on the BBC - hope he has a second job.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:37 (six years ago) link

gonna move to have tooting secede from the rest of south west london

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:38 (six years ago) link

(he's working class & comprehensive-educated btw, i've disowned virtually all of my peers xxp)

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:38 (six years ago) link

xxp that was John Sopel I think, BBC journalist!

Keith Moom (Neil S), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:39 (six years ago) link

hurrah, green > lib dem in tooting

i saw that it was predicted to be close and i voted accordingly, grimly lol'ing at my vote actually having some kind of effect

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:39 (six years ago) link

mark the ukip voter has the swagger of oasis

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:40 (six years ago) link

That 'Labour's campaign was too left wing' line is killing me. And not in a good way

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:40 (six years ago) link

Lib Dems look to have been voting Tory AND UKIP, which is worse.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:41 (six years ago) link

I've never known anyone who has admitted to being a Tory voter... oh one guy I worked with for a while who told me once that immigrants come to Britain because it's the only country in the world with a welfare state, and that there is an invisible inverted pyramid which floats over the Kremlin.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:41 (six years ago) link

That 'Labour's campaign was too left wing' line is killing me.

don't worry, the Labour party will come to the same conclusion

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:42 (six years ago) link

Word is Labour has lost all 7 Glasgow seats.

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:43 (six years ago) link

That's because Labour's campaign was too left wing

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:43 (six years ago) link

couldn't cope with the harsh realpolitik of sturgeon and co

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:47 (six years ago) link

what is this nuneaton backdrop

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:50 (six years ago) link

Tories gon' get a majority

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:50 (six years ago) link

looking back on the campaign how much of the labour attack was focused on UKIP? rather than just the tories? apart for the uk lite one line pledge to control immigration and on those mugs.

obviously more needed to be done to expose ukip and on educating potential ukip defectors.

how much better would labour had fought on anti-austerity clarity / bold social democracy of SNP that would have also dragged the green vote back. how many English votes said they would have loved to vote SNP on socio-economic grounds. John Cruddas centre-left social democratic renewal review was kicked into the long grass and Miliband was dragged back by Progress to fight in trench warfare with the tories, meanwhile the real fights for potential voters was happening elsewhere.

has labour's political positioning been dragged back to the centre ground by focus group / the right wing press and "progress" and Dougie Alexander#s strategy within the labour to try to appeal to so called middle england that never would shift from the tories. All that talk of "balancing the books" and tough on benefits e.g means testing benefits of 18-21 year olds there were no votes to be grabbed there.

labour's lost vote in England:

mostly ukip defection of the working class
green drift of the educated / informed

Progress Group within Labour are to blame. Progress / Blairites / Blue Labour are still infecting labour trying to be tory lite.

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:50 (six years ago) link

Nuneaton: lab needed 2% swing, didn't get it.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:50 (six years ago) link

that's Nuneaton, imago

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:51 (six years ago) link

it is sunny there because they vote Tory

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:51 (six years ago) link

i'm blocking everything out except the 3-digit lib dem votes

woof, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:51 (six years ago) link

solid 5th place for the Lib Dems, mind

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:51 (six years ago) link

nice prospect of the DUP in government this time next week

Keith Moom (Neil S), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:51 (six years ago) link

lol TUSC beating the English Democrats, smile there

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:51 (six years ago) link

Well that's it, Lib Dem vote has collapsed and gone to the Tories, it's all over.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:52 (six years ago) link

I'm surprised how surprised I am at how many cunts live in this country

Blandford Forum, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:52 (six years ago) link

can someone sum up the DUP in an image please

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:52 (six years ago) link

I'm not. xp

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:53 (six years ago) link

http://images.lazygamer.net/2013/01/no-meme-rage-face.jpg

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:54 (six years ago) link

I'm sure the DUP will just want fair economic help for all citizens of Northern Ireland, be they protestant or presbyterian

woof, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:54 (six years ago) link

be they man or boy

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:55 (six years ago) link

Well that's it, Lib Dem vote has collapsed and gone to the Tories, it's all over.

"I voted Lib Dem to keep the Tories out but they've sold out and gone into coalition with them, compromised all of their principles, supported all kinds of shit and got nothing in return so....I'll just vote Tory." I really don't get it.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:56 (six years ago) link

They're voting tactically to keep Labour out, not seeming to realise that Tories are voting to gleefully decimate Lib Dems.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 00:57 (six years ago) link

Exit poll in Nuneaton is for swing from Con to Lab, so they got that wrong!!

LOL UK!

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:58 (six years ago) link

Which means that we're looking at a majority here. fucking fucking fuck

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 00:59 (six years ago) link

Planning on staying up all night to the bitter end watching this, but by the looks of things five years in bed with the Tories seems to have assassinated the Lib Dems based on the results so far. The Sheffield Hallam result is going to be interesting, that's for sure.

lonely guy, thinking baout electoral law

Keith Moom (Neil S), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:00 (six years ago) link

Sharia law shurely?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:01 (six years ago) link

Lib Dem voters on some weird Stockholm Syndrome/Patty Hearst joining her kidnappers trip or god knows what. What a fuck up

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:02 (six years ago) link

defatigable

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:02 (six years ago) link

Hopefully he can be jailed for this.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:08 (six years ago) link

Or flogged.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:09 (six years ago) link

lol my hair is almost identical to yours at this moment

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:12 (six years ago) link

SNP 14,000 majority in Kilmarnock and Loudon holy fuck. That's Cathy Jamieson out, and booted out too.

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:12 (six years ago) link

lib dem hold!

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:13 (six years ago) link

xxp my naturally horrified look will become more and more universal

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:13 (six years ago) link

wow Labour absolutely fucked in Kilmarnock, a 26% swing, that must be pretty much unprecedented?

Keith Moom (Neil S), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:13 (six years ago) link

kinda think that Labour & England deserve this

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:14 (six years ago) link

(re: SNP)

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:14 (six years ago) link

I can't find swings like that on first look. That's annihilation for scottish Labour.

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:14 (six years ago) link

Judging by the way things have been going, I wasn't expecting Lib Dem to hold that seat at all! Fucking hell, that swing to SNP in Kilmarnock, though!

(xps) The thing is, the SNP winning everything isn't news - it's an incredible turn around in less than a year, but we've known it was coming and factored it in. It's what's happening in England which is genuinely jaw-dropping.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:16 (six years ago) link

A soaring SNP is one thing, a 29% swing and cleaning out the west of Scotland is definitely still in the jaw-dropping territory I think

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:18 (six years ago) link

Is what's happening in England so jawdropping? I was never going to vote Labour and I'm sure many others felt the same. Choosing Green over UKIP/Tory is almost arbitrary ;)

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:18 (six years ago) link

(xp) It is jaw-dropping, but we already knew it was going to happen. The polls said the SNP would win virtually everything. What's happening elsewhere is miles out of line with the polls.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:19 (six years ago) link

aye - that's proper "any clown in a red rosette" country
xp

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:19 (six years ago) link

Is what's happening in England so jawdropping? I was never going to vote Labour and I'm sure many others felt the same.

No, you're right. I got distracted by every single opinion poll / bookie / expert / commentator, whereas I should have based my expectations on you.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:20 (six years ago) link

Douglas Alexander up now

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:21 (six years ago) link

Paisley now...

Douglas Alexander...

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:21 (six years ago) link

haha

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:22 (six years ago) link

fuck!

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:22 (six years ago) link

there there.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:22 (six years ago) link

This is Twigg again. 20 year-old student. SNP doesn't have 58 candidates up to the job, I don't think

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:22 (six years ago) link

Sheeit!

Another clown in a red rosette bites the dust

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:23 (six years ago) link

:D a 20 year-old student!!! :D :D

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:24 (six years ago) link

20 years old, should be hilarious up there.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:24 (six years ago) link

This is nuts.

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:24 (six years ago) link

Love this lassie.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:25 (six years ago) link

Paisley's a barrel of laughs at the best of times

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:25 (six years ago) link

We are getting Trident dear.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:25 (six years ago) link

Me and Andra Neil can tell you all about it

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:26 (six years ago) link

34% swing in Dunbartonshire!

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:26 (six years ago) link

haha they cut douglas alexander.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:26 (six years ago) link

34% swing in Dunbartonshire
lol xp

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:26 (six years ago) link

andrew neil is from paisley? that makes him like five times the tory cunt he already was

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:26 (six years ago) link

I suspect there's even bigger headfucks to come!

douglas shd have just been 'it's over. good luck scotland'

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:27 (six years ago) link

Falkirk...

Right, so no more Labour MPs in Scotland

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:30 (six years ago) link

these scottish results - are these real or am i that drunk?

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:31 (six years ago) link

Yeah, it's looking like Labour annhilated in Scotland and Lib Dems almost completely annihilated everywhere.

shitty 14% swing in Ochil

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:32 (six years ago) link

To a former Tory

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:32 (six years ago) link

35%!!

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:33 (six years ago) link

Did I just hear right that the lib dems got 80 votes in castle point?

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:34 (six years ago) link

Canvey Island, rather.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:35 (six years ago) link

haha what

(Ignore me I've just had a massive vodka)

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:36 (six years ago) link

Right, Salmond, that's enough for me.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:37 (six years ago) link

More spoiled ballot papers than votes for the Lib Dems.

boxedjoy, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:37 (six years ago) link

The SNP have more swing than Sinatra!

80 lib dem votes in castlepoint - that's a 98% collapse from 2010!

prolego, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:41 (six years ago) link

^ woah

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:41 (six years ago) link

justin webb ‏@JustinOnWeb 7m7 minutes ago

Labour source in Brighton says green Caroline Lucas will increase her majority #ge2015

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:42 (six years ago) link

The SNP are the sultans of "swing"

80 votes. Can I just...

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:43 (six years ago) link

http://i.imgur.com/zgxydEl.png

prolego, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:48 (six years ago) link

BBC not even mentioning it

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:49 (six years ago) link

solid 5th place tbqfh

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:50 (six years ago) link

davey carked it

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:52 (six years ago) link

Kirkcaldy has gone to SNP. (Brown's old seat)

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:52 (six years ago) link

does there to be a realignment of political parties on the centre-left and left particularly in england after tonight?

social liberals and social democrats that have supported liberal democrats and have destroyed by the orange bookers by clegg / laws / alexander
and labour have been blighted and infected by right of the party i.e progress blairites that failed to ignite both the traditional working class and educated/ informed left
meanwhile caroline lucas is said to have increased her vote / majority

SNP have shown what can happen with conviction and clarity of real social democracy

all points to more clarity and a bolder centre-left, it's time to reunite the centre-left.

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:53 (six years ago) link

There's no way Scottish Labour comes back from this by thinking they were too left, so I wonder if Labour can hold together after this xp

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:54 (six years ago) link

Is it possible the Tories might hold on to their one seat in Scotland? And so have more MPs in Scotland than Labour? Still more pandas though.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 01:55 (six years ago) link

Anything's possible in Dumfries, but I really can't see it

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:58 (six years ago) link

4 cgi people died during that recalibration, and it still may not be enough.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 8 May 2015 01:58 (six years ago) link

does there to be a realignment of political parties on the centre-left and left particularly in england after tonight?

social liberals and social democrats that have supported liberal democrats and have destroyed by the orange bookers by clegg / laws / alexander
and labour have been blighted and infected by right of the party i.e progress blairites that failed to ignite both the traditional working class and educated/ informed left
meanwhile caroline lucas is said to have increased her vote / majority

SNP have shown what can happen with conviction and clarity of real social democracy

all points to more clarity and a bolder centre-left, it's time to reunite the centre-left.

While I wouldn't deny that the Lib Dems have lost a lot of support because of the orange-bookers and that Labour have been ruined by the right, I think this is fanciful. The reality is that Scotland is a special case, quite different to England, and the combination of UKIP and the Tories is much bigger than that of Labour + Greens (and who knows how to allocate the pitiful number of Lib Dems that remain?). Everything's fucked.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:00 (six years ago) link

Mike O’Brien, the former Labour minister, has failed to take North Warwickshire back from the Conservatives. The Tories’ majority in 2010 was just 54, and this was Labour’s top target

Basildon 92. Time for bed. Up for work in three hours. What a load of shite.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:05 (six years ago) link

i somehow ended up on new questions and thought ilx had broken, i can't be having that i need u right now

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:12 (six years ago) link

Jim Murphy!

boxedjoy, Friday, 8 May 2015 02:15 (six years ago) link

Fucking hell!

TOXIC

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:17 (six years ago) link

Fucking arsehole that man

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 02:17 (six years ago) link

i should go to bed now and pretend that jim murphy is the story of the election

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:17 (six years ago) link

Curran out too

michaellambert, Friday, 8 May 2015 02:25 (six years ago) link

UKIP scoring treble the vote of the Greens in Glasgow East

boxedjoy, Friday, 8 May 2015 02:29 (six years ago) link

I think all the Greens I know are voting SNP for this, but will vote Green at Holyrood.

ailsa, Friday, 8 May 2015 02:32 (six years ago) link

sturgeon can hear every word he's saying

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:44 (six years ago) link

that "wave your hands you have the power" nonsense is exactly why Scotland loathes the BBC and its attitude

boxedjoy, Friday, 8 May 2015 02:48 (six years ago) link

39% swing in Glasgow NE looks like the record

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:48 (six years ago) link

And that's Willie Bain gone - game over for Scottish Labour.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 8 May 2015 02:52 (six years ago) link

It'll be a massive adjustment for the Parliamentary Labour Party to be Scot-free.

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:58 (six years ago) link

Orkney and Shetland stop the clean sweep.

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 02:59 (six years ago) link

24% swing not enough to win wtf

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 03:00 (six years ago) link

they still don't know about the coalition amirite

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 03:01 (six years ago) link

mixed feelings cuz tories are winning but amazing to see scots lab dinosaurs losing. So pleased jimmy hood is gone.
Amazing night in Scotland.
Labour whining SNP mps put tories in but even if Labour won all 59 they would still lose. So if they continue with that tack then they wont win back Scotland.

re murphys speech
Jim Murphy is not gonna make Scots labour a socialist party. He's wrong that "Scotland needs a strong Labour Party" Scotland needs a Socialist Labour Party.
He is not a socialist; he cannot deliver it. Dont think any of them can.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 03:19 (six years ago) link

labour revival on! Edinburgh South held.

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 03:28 (six years ago) link

multiple recount in west wirral .. is esther mcvey going? it's close

liverpool echo...

Unverified, but have been told Lab had a 402 majority in Wirral West #GE2015
https://twitter.com/Liam1971/status/596514871132454912

keep monitoring...
https://twitter.com/Liam1971

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 03:33 (six years ago) link

Boris "Ajockalypse Now" Johnson says the people of Britain have rejected the politics of division.

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 03:34 (six years ago) link

Vince Cable's gone!

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 8 May 2015 03:37 (six years ago) link

dozing off here - have I missed Danny Alexander?

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 8 May 2015 03:39 (six years ago) link

via twiiter search

Bundle check still underway in Wirral West. Result expected in 20 minutes

massive 75% turnout in West Wirral

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 03:41 (six years ago) link

https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q=west%20wirral&src=typd

"Tory councillor officially warned to stop interfering with recount in Wirral west.,"

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 03:42 (six years ago) link

so much boris

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 03:47 (six years ago) link

Clegg holds on

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 03:52 (six years ago) link

clegg reconsiders his own future in the party i.e implies standing down as leader

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 03:59 (six years ago) link

West Wirral Witch is Gone

yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 04:04 (six years ago) link

I've just woken up. Are we looking at a majority?

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 04:06 (six years ago) link

glad the evil mcvey is gone

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 04:13 (six years ago) link

xp

dunno yet

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 04:14 (six years ago) link

Charles Kennedy out.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 04:19 (six years ago) link

Just woken up, any cause for optimism? doing better than I thought but looks like a bunch of holds - can't tell if we've had results where it matters yet

kinder, Friday, 8 May 2015 04:22 (six years ago) link

No cause for optimism at all, as far as I can tell.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 04:27 (six years ago) link

no labour breakthru in england only 5 gains but 5 losses in relation to the tories

main story in england...ukip vote strong in certain parts on england outside london, drift of working class to ukip from labour - has damaged labour in many seats and marginals, letting tories to hold on and indeed some gains from labour like telford, lib dem collapse - in some seats their vote has drifted to tories meaning that labour fall short.

djmartian, Friday, 8 May 2015 04:38 (six years ago) link

https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/596534217904914433

BBC FORECAST UPDATE

CON 325
LAB 232
SNP 56
LIB 12
UKIP 1
GRN 1

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 04:42 (six years ago) link

I kicked the radio hard against the wall this morning and wished death upon most of this country again, another day in paradise!

xelab, Friday, 8 May 2015 04:51 (six years ago) link

Danny Alexander is toast, as expected.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 04:54 (six years ago) link

Well, by the looks of things I guess I'm going to be thanking Scotland and UKIP voters for five more years of Conservative bullshit.

Not to mention the number of utter twats in England and elsewhere that actually voted for that utter cunt.

poll

thoughts you made second posts about (darraghmac), Friday, 8 May 2015 05:37 (six years ago) link

anyway, sorry uk.

thoughts you made second posts about (darraghmac), Friday, 8 May 2015 05:40 (six years ago) link

3m+ ukip votes

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 05:44 (six years ago) link

Farage is actually quite important, i will be genuinely worried when they get someone who is actually good at this shit.

xelab, Friday, 8 May 2015 05:48 (six years ago) link

woken up. wish i hadn't.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:02 (six years ago) link

SNP's only real rivals in Scotland are now the pandas in Edinburgh Zoo.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:03 (six years ago) link

woken up. wish i hadn't.

― Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, May 8, 2015 6:02 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

spare a thought for those of us who stayed up all night

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:05 (six years ago) link

This is the first one I haven't stayed up for.

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 06:09 (six years ago) link

a key question is not what can Labour do to win a majority in England, but what can the Tories do to lose it?

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:10 (six years ago) link

So, will ukip give up now? They have not exactly surged..

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 06:11 (six years ago) link

this might be the most satisfying possible outcome. let the people have what they want, let them have it in fucking shovelfuls, let's have another 10 years of untrammeled English Conservatism.

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:12 (six years ago) link

To lose it? Fail to deliver their promises or, conversely, deliver a booming economy and the electorate go "Ok, where's my share?'

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 06:13 (six years ago) link

I want some Lib Dems, party of progressive politics, to explain why so many of their voters have decided to vote Tory, handing them seat after seat. Can we assume that Lib Dem supporters have liked what they've seen of the Tories in coalition? Has the Lib Dem campaign been, to borrow a phrase from earlier, 'too left wing'? Have they always been Tories in disguise (yes).

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:20 (six years ago) link

Jessie Rae!!! Standing in Berwickshire!!! Someone mentioned him in ILM the other week.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:26 (six years ago) link

People vote on the economy. It should never be a surprise but always is. There are millions of people on what would be considered an ok wage who have gone through at least one redundancy process since the crash and worry about job security or who can pay for a mortgage at 3% but would struggle at 4%, etc. Any change to the status quo is scary, particularly when the Labour case for making it is so limply presented. There will be another downturn at some point, there will be inflation and there will be unemployment and when that happens the Tories will feel it. Until it happens, I think they will probably rule.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:27 (six years ago) link

Though I think a lot depends on internal Tory politics. If they start pandering to the 1922 Committee, they could end up in trouble sooner.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:29 (six years ago) link

what could Labour have done differently?

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:35 (six years ago) link

cos in their own narrative this was a bold, radical manifesto.

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:36 (six years ago) link

bbc not letting us hear caroline lucas' acceptance speech, cutting to a george osborne interview

cunts

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:37 (six years ago) link

xp

seems like most of you guys have been banging on about wanting labour to be be much further 'left' than it is currently. can't see any evidence that this would garner them more votes in england

pandemic, Friday, 8 May 2015 06:40 (six years ago) link

so what should they do?

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:41 (six years ago) link

I was wondering that myself and I genuinely don't know whether the gains they would have made from building a properly aggressive platform on housing, employment rights, etc, would have offset any losses. They had five years to build a case for the Tory "economic miracle" being illusory and the cuts being ideological and pretty much failed, though.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:41 (six years ago) link

stay centre right and hope the tories move further right? or is that what happened this time and people like further right

pandemic, Friday, 8 May 2015 06:42 (six years ago) link

I can't believe this. Are there any silver linings? Probably will leave the EU with this electorate, BBC and NHS not looking good either.

Why can't people vote for more than self interest or even supposed self interest?

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:48 (six years ago) link

Are there any silver linings?

Nope.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:50 (six years ago) link

The only good thing about the EU situation is that radical change there would massively upset the picture of stability and it doesn't look like people are willing to make even the mildest gambles on the economy then it comes to the crunch. That and the fact the Tories could go back to biting lumps chunks out of each other when it does become an issue.

NHS will probably be ok. BBC license fee risky though.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:52 (six years ago) link

Lumps chunks? Idk

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:53 (six years ago) link

The one thing Labour could've done from 2010 onwards is dispel the lie that the economic crash was caused by spending on public services etc.

After the Referendum, nobody dreamed that Cameron would come back to the result with 'OH HAI, English votes for English laws' instead of saying 'hey, thanks for sticking with the Union, Scotland!' and that's probably the thing that sealed the fates of both Labour and the SNP. Divide and rule, peasants - Tories do this better than anything, including actually running a country.

The BBC are currently suffering with an almighty case of Stockholm syndrome: why prop up arseholes who are actively working to destroy you?

camp event (suzy), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:05 (six years ago) link

How totally depressing

I genuinely thought that Labour would be able to form a centre left coalition

paolo, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:06 (six years ago) link

bleak doesn't even come near - closest thing to what I feel:

this might be the most satisfying possible outcome. let the people have what they want, let them have it in fucking shovelfuls, let's have another 10 years of untrammeled English Conservatism.

― vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 06:12 (50 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and yes, tory party as party as economic stability had rep to shake (idiotically they were borderline economically illiterate in the coalition). But I really do think the most hysterical, panicked and widespread right wing media campaign I can remember had a huge part to play.

Fizzles, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:07 (six years ago) link

I went to bed after my supposedly marginal SW London seat was held by the Tories by an even greater margin than last time. Torn between despairing that the toxic right-wing narrative (and the press was even more hysterical than usual, seemed to combine right-wing desperation with clickbait desperation) actually WORKED on this terrible island, and the usual failure of Labour to provide even the hint of a SNP-style anti-austerity platform. Not sure it's comforting that both are probably to blame. Obviously it's less mourning a Labour loss and more being appalled that after the past five years and that campaign that people went out and voted for more of it.

Turns out there is indeed room amidst despair for schadenfreude though, hahahaha @ the Lib Dems

lex pretend, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:08 (six years ago) link

ha, xp

lex pretend, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:08 (six years ago) link

The BBC are currently suffering with an almighty case of Stockholm syndrome: why prop up arseholes who are actively working to destroy you?

prob cos the people working there are tories

i'm honestly just sickened by this. what the fuck is wrong with people?

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:10 (six years ago) link

Has Ashdown eaten his hat yet? Another Lib Dem lie.

lex pretend, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:11 (six years ago) link

People mostly like untrammeled english conservatism though surely, and have done for decades, unless it massively and clearly screws up the economy in which case they reconsider.

pandemic, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:17 (six years ago) link

cold light of day apparently comes with a nuclear winter setting

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:18 (six years ago) link

It was my wife's birthday last night and I made the decision to ignore everything before and after the exit poll and I was entirely vindicated in that decision.

There is a gigantic bunfight coming down the line over Europe, I think Cameron might struggle to control his party with or without a majority.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:19 (six years ago) link

Balls out - by about 300 votes!

camp event (suzy), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:19 (six years ago) link

edless & castrated

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:19 (six years ago) link

Most Tories wouldn't see Cameron as bringing untrammelled conservatism. The one positive is that they might shut up about shifting to right for a bit.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:23 (six years ago) link

It really won't.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:25 (six years ago) link

Kinda expecting Rupert Murdoch to just expire now, like Bert Cooper watching the moon landing.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:26 (six years ago) link

Possibly not but a key part of their message was that he is a liberal wet blanket who can't win elections. He has capital now. Xp

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:28 (six years ago) link

What, as in 'my work here is done'? Xpost

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:30 (six years ago) link

i'm honestly just sickened by this. what the fuck is wrong with people?

I really hate electorate blaming... I'm pretty sure that people do want an alternative to the Tories and are ready to vote for it - if only they can believe in it. Ed M and co. couldn't and didn't pull together a convincing vision of that alternative.

quixotic yet visceral (Bob Six), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:47 (six years ago) link

voting for tories does not equal wanting an alternative. i don't believe that at all.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:49 (six years ago) link

You have to blame Labour really, their strategy and policies were all wrong from the start. Their problem is that they are losing seats for all sorts of different reasons, a simple shift either to the left or right won't solve their problems.

Still astonished they looked at Jim Murphy and went 'yep, that's the guy for us' though.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:51 (six years ago) link

More people might have bothered to vote if there was a reason to vote, i.e a credible anti-austerity party that had the momentum of a hopeful and inspiring campaign behind them. This is what's happened in Scotland - engagement and turnout is higher because there's more chance that the vote might actually count for something. We might have rejected independence but we're not accepting the current set-up, and I think if voters outside of Scotland felt there was a genuine choice of values then this run-up might have felt more exciting and the results more optimistic.

boxedjoy, Friday, 8 May 2015 07:55 (six years ago) link

hard to say that labour going more anti-austerity wouldn't have lost them as much as it gained.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 8 May 2015 07:59 (six years ago) link

is what's happened in Scotland unprecedented for a separatist movement? decades of working towards a referendum...and defeat in it resulting in such overwhelming support for the movement

lex pretend, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:01 (six years ago) link

xp think you underestimate just how many people in england are in favour of austerity

pandemic, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:03 (six years ago) link

Labour completely failed to articulate the argument AGAINST austerity though

lex pretend, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:06 (six years ago) link

It was my wife's birthday last night

Matt DC married, how come no-one told me?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:06 (six years ago) link

"wouldn't change a thing about Osborne's budget" - they pandered to austerity as much as they could

lex pretend, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:06 (six years ago) link

No coherence or confidence from Labour this election. Really hoping for a clearing away of the dead wood now. New leader, new purpose, new Labour oh wait

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:10 (six years ago) link

oh god the next leader will be chuka umunna won't it

lex pretend, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:11 (six years ago) link

Anti-austerity Labour would be spun as "would spend too much, can't be trusted with the economy", pro-austerity, well we now know what we get there. There isn't really a quick fix here and I don't think the Labour Party have even begun to comprehend the scale of the problem here.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:12 (six years ago) link

A leader with some charisma would help as well.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:12 (six years ago) link

Wasn't Umnna was one of the few Labour MPs to increase his majority last night

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:15 (six years ago) link

rushanara ali in my constituency, bg/bow massively increased her majority, by about 20k votes.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:18 (six years ago) link

actually about 14k

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:18 (six years ago) link

Stella Creasy did too, fwiw

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:19 (six years ago) link

Ben Brawdshaw's majority in Exeter has gone from 2721 in 2010 to about 7,500 if the figures Google are giving me are correct.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:23 (six years ago) link

Bradshaw.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:23 (six years ago) link

seems a p impressive person

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushanara_Ali

despite lack of canvassing.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:23 (six years ago) link

I'm now quite looking forward to watching the Tories try to win the EU referendum. Brexit would fuck us (and be catastrophic for their biz pals) and they know this.

But thumping the tub for Europe is toxic for them, hopefully pretty much as toxic as thumping the tub for the UK turned out to be for Scottish Labour.

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:26 (six years ago) link

^^^ That is definitely going to be the big theme of the next Parliament, Cameron will have to give his MPs free reign on that issue, they'll destroy him if he doesn't.

The Tories have made a lot of contradictory pledges on tax, spending and borrowing, in anticipation of having to water them down in minority/coalition government. Not sure how they're going to deal with that with a majority.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:28 (six years ago) link

Miliband about to resign btw.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:29 (six years ago) link

Charles Kennedy lost his Ross, Skye and Lochaber seat. He was so pissed on qt recently I forgot he was actually still a functional (sort of) mp.

xelab, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:31 (six years ago) link

the handwringing on twitter is hard to take, and the stupid jokes or memes to try and raise the mood have the opposite effect.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:34 (six years ago) link

Started a Chuka Ummuna Obama Hope poster, lost interest during making it. But I bet you see one before the end of the day.

the bowels are not what they seem (aldo), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:41 (six years ago) link

*Umunna*

the bowels are not what they seem (aldo), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:47 (six years ago) link

I haven't read this whole thread yet but agghhhhh.

Now I'm going to read this whole thread (since 1am when I gave up and went to bed) and cry inwardly or possibly outwardly instead of doing any work.

Guh.

undergraduate dance (a passing spacecadet), Friday, 8 May 2015 08:48 (six years ago) link

a Chuka Ummuna Obama Hope poster

conrad, Friday, 8 May 2015 08:58 (six years ago) link

my son is going to be 11 before these fucks are gone.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Friday, 8 May 2015 09:00 (six years ago) link

I was 19 before they were gone last time

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:17 (six years ago) link

I turned 18 about 10 days after the 97 election. Nora's going to be at least 5. I have no confidence in Labour being electable under the current electoral system any time soon.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 8 May 2015 09:19 (six years ago) link

Seeing this as Cameron being quite lucky in the end and not really the case of economy stupid at all. More about Nationalism and Scotland. The referendum 'awakened' all to 30%+ swings north of the border (70%+ turnouts, a 20 yo being elected, so plenty of young people voting too). Unprecendented and the kind of engagement we all want to see south of the border.

The Lib Dem voters in England then reacted by voting tactically to UKIP or tories which took away the few % points that were needed in the marginal seats for Labour to win them.

At least that's what I saw up to the early hours last night.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:26 (six years ago) link

I was 18 and voting for the first time in the 1992 election when the polls and result were pretty much like this and it felt at the time that Labour would never get elected again. But 'events, dear boy'. Less than a year later they were miles behind Labour in the polls and stayed there for more than a decade. Not saying this will happen again - things look fucking bleak right now - but nobody knows what's around the corner.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 09:27 (six years ago) link

At least I heard of 70% is what I heard last night. xp

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:28 (six years ago) link

xyzzzz is broadly right about the mechanics, I think. but there are underlying truths that shd've been apparent years ago, and one positive of this election might be to convince a few more people of those truths. the Labour party as is offers no hope for radically changing economic policy in this country. the electoral system as is offers no hope for radically changing economic policy in this country.

what people choose to do next, other than to make special "Don't Forget It's Important to Vote" gifs for 2020, well it'll be unfun finding out

vote yay! for constitutional monarchy (Noodle Vague), Friday, 8 May 2015 09:33 (six years ago) link

Not worried about ref. on Europe. See a fairly comfortable win and it would take Euro crisis ++ during any campaign to see that threatened in any way.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:34 (six years ago) link

xp

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:34 (six years ago) link

bye nigel

mark e, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:35 (six years ago) link

never been so happy to see a conservative win a seat

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:36 (six years ago) link

a former ukipper no less

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:36 (six years ago) link

Farage not winning but if you put a pretty face on this they have become effectively the third party with a role to play in future elections. Sorry.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:37 (six years ago) link

electoral reform and lowering of voting age please

conrad, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:41 (six years ago) link

oh god the next leader will be chuka umunna won't it

If it's not Yvette Cooper I'll eat what's left of Paddy Ashdown's hat. Female leaders are officially a 'thing' now, and political morons will jump on whatever bandwagon's trundling by them. Plus,sorry but wtf is the big deal about Nicola Sturgeon?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 09:42 (six years ago) link

Not even Farage failing can lift my spirits tbh.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 09:43 (six years ago) link

Electoral reform? When UKIP got 3.5million votes? Scary prospect.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 8 May 2015 09:56 (six years ago) link

but there are underlying truths that shd've been apparent years ago, and one positive of this election might be to convince a few more people of those truths. the Labour party as is offers no hope for radically changing economic policy in this country. the electoral system as is offers no hope for radically changing economic policy in this country.

You're such a softie NV w/the people will see it in the end :-)

Frankly we'll need more crisis, evictions, 'small government' for people's attitudes to even start to change. Syriza only came up when Greece was on its knees.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 09:57 (six years ago) link

SNP supporter, guy I've known since he was 16, saying on Facebook that, " It's all good for us, because if thing's get really bad we're more likely to get independence". There's yer Nationalists for you.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 10:00 (six years ago) link

no there's a guy on facebook you've known since he was 16

conrad, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:09 (six years ago) link

latest bbc forecast: tories get 331 seats

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 10:12 (six years ago) link

enough to 'finish the job'.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:13 (six years ago) link

Watching the person from Telegraph now. "It wouldn't have mattered if Lab had won in Sctoland".

Actually if Labour had won in Scotland Labour would probably have taken quite a few marginals off the Tories too.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:24 (six years ago) link

Farage resigning has cheered me up. A bit

paolo, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:31 (six years ago) link

and that makes three

Drop soap, not bombs (Ste), Friday, 8 May 2015 10:35 (six years ago) link

If SNP hadn't won in Scotland, or looked like they were going to for ages, they wouldn't have been painted as the DEVIL coalition the last two weeks, and people would not have been scared off voting Labour.

So, yes the number of seats didn't matter, but it's the media, stupid, from now on.

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:37 (six years ago) link

The Last Clegg.

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:37 (six years ago) link

I don't think Clegg deserved (all) the vitriol he received, but he had to step down after that

Steve Reich In The Afternoon (Against The 80s), Friday, 8 May 2015 10:50 (six years ago) link

Electoral reform? When UKIP got 3.5million votes? Scary prospect.

― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, May 8, 2015 9:56 AM (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

UKIP's share doesn't appear to be sustainable plus isn't anything better than the current nonsense?

Don't know how anybody can attach credence to results that are so unreflective of what people actually vote for.

tsrobodo, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:51 (six years ago) link

So with their majority, presumably the Tories can change the law to get rid of the mandatory five-year term and go back to calling the election whenever they think they are most likely to win? And they can reduce the number of constituencies and gerrymander the boundaries?

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 10:54 (six years ago) link

HOL.

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:55 (six years ago) link

Sorry guys, it's not up to the Scottish electorate to vote in a way that doesn't scare folk off Labour in English marginals.

michaellambert, Friday, 8 May 2015 10:57 (six years ago) link

It's going to be a smaller majority than Major managed in '92.

I can only hope that, with the 'nutters' on the back-benches holding more sway, the Tory party eats itself over the next 5 years in the same way it did back then.

And that a credible alternative appears ...

Steve Reich In The Afternoon (Against The 80s), Friday, 8 May 2015 11:00 (six years ago) link

The viciousness of the right-wing campaign showed how rattled they were. Polls weren't showing what the outcome was. They will be as surprised as anybody.

SNP destroying Lab was also hard in terms of strategy because it would've meant suddenly subscribing to more anti-austerity when they were saying all along they would not 'cut as fast as the Tories, but we'll cut'.

In the end the 'rainbow' coalition is a hard sell = too much instability, people and politicians aren't used to it. No one really cares for electoral reform (remember the vote to change the system?)

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 11:03 (six years ago) link

Redwood's rocked up and firing the gun on a new Tory EU battle before it's even done. God I hope it seriously distracts them from fucking over everything else. But danger this solidifies UKIP.

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 11:09 (six years ago) link

Ed has just resigned.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 11:15 (six years ago) link

lol thanking Milli Fandom.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 11:16 (six years ago) link

Awful Dan Hodges is right that the Tories fucked up finding a leader after Hague's snap resignation, and got it much better after taking time when Howard went. Labour needs to understand how they lost this to choose the right leader to win the next one

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 11:19 (six years ago) link

UK vote share change since 2010 after 641 of 650 seats
-% +%
UKIP+9.5
SNP+3.1
GRN+2.8
LAB+1.4
CON+0.7
LD-15.1

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 8 May 2015 11:23 (six years ago) link

Redwood's rocked up and firing the gun on a new Tory EU battle before it's even done. God I hope it seriously distracts them from fucking over everything else. But danger this solidifies UKIP.

― stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 12:09 (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Ah, Redwood, Chief Nutter

Steve Reich In The Afternoon (Against The 80s), Friday, 8 May 2015 11:28 (six years ago) link

Votes per seat:

SNP 26k
Con 34.5k
Lab 40.5k
Lib Dem 295k
Green 1.1m
Ukip 3.8m

Steve Reich In The Afternoon (Against The 80s), Friday, 8 May 2015 11:31 (six years ago) link

What seats are left to declare? Any Labour ones?

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 11:45 (six years ago) link

Ranil Jayawardena has refused to shake hands with UKIP's Robert Blay during their post-results speeches following an alleged shooting threat.
Mr Blay offered to shake hands with his Conservative opponent, who held on to the seat at Hampshire North East following the count at Hart Leisure Centre, Fleet.

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 11:50 (six years ago) link

terrible piece = when people shove a passport after a result like this then please leave.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 12:02 (six years ago) link

Can't believe how blue the map is. Feel a bit funny. I was zoomed in on my local area and everything was blue except Oxford East and I kept zooming out and everything kept being all blue.

My feeling of despair for the future was not quite total until that.

undergraduate dance (a passing spacecadet), Friday, 8 May 2015 12:15 (six years ago) link

Cameron has just said he wants to make Great Britain 'greater still', he is such a fucking mediocre cretin.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 12:22 (six years ago) link

can he change its name to Greater Britain

The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 May 2015 12:24 (six years ago) link

'greatest britain' or gtfo

bizarro gazzara, Friday, 8 May 2015 12:28 (six years ago) link

Talking of gtfo, all polling organizations gtfo, John Curtice pwns the lot 'o youse.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 12:35 (six years ago) link

Can't we just burn these Tories onto a cd

saer, Friday, 8 May 2015 12:38 (six years ago) link

No, it has to be onto a USB stick which we leave on the underground.

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 12:43 (six years ago) link

Do you remember when leaders lost at elections and didn't resign afterwards? Some of them even got to win subsequent elections...

Wilson. Heath. umm... others!

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 13:42 (six years ago) link

Cameron?

AlanSmithee, Friday, 8 May 2015 14:05 (six years ago) link

Cameron already being replaced by a female leader as we speak - Tory spokeswomen congratulated him on winning but decried that he was not sufficiently 'thing'

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Friday, 8 May 2015 14:16 (six years ago) link

Churchill as well, but that's something of a special case.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 14:16 (six years ago) link

that 'great' britain bollocks. I like the story that says its first use was as a pun:

But critics of the Historia (Geoffrey of Monmouth's book) were by now becoming vocal. The most devastating attack came in 1521 from the pen of the clergyman-scholar John Major (1489-1550). In his modest and good-humoured book Historia Maioris Britainniae he demolished the entire edifice of Brutus, Scotia and the like, though he was entirely happy to support the Arthurian stories - perhaps a wise precaution during the reign of Henry VIII. The title of Major's book is interesting; it is probably a pun on the the author's name but it is usually translated as The History of Great Britain - the first time Britain was called Great.

Fizzles, Friday, 8 May 2015 14:17 (six years ago) link

Modest and good-humoured, that sounds like John Major

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 14:20 (six years ago) link

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to cope with the inevitable moment when Blair pops up, deludedly claiming vindication.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 14:38 (six years ago) link

Ok, so the reason it is called "Great Britain" is because of John Major.

I need a lie down.

Mark G, Friday, 8 May 2015 14:40 (six years ago) link

I want to make Missenden greater still.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 14:44 (six years ago) link

St Ives has finally declared, for the Tories, like a last little kick there.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 14:44 (six years ago) link

Not even in my wildest dreams could I have imagined the Lib Dems ending up with 8 seats! That is sweet. And funny as fuck.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 14:49 (six years ago) link

Not even in my wildest dreams could I have imagined the Lib Dems ending up with 8 seats!

I think I said this would happen (on here) years ago, but not like this - I think I was saying that they were unlikely to hold the balance of power again as they'd win so few seats, but I wasn't imagining a scenario where the SNP won the whole of Scotland and Labour ended up about 100 seats behind the Tories.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 14:59 (six years ago) link

Third party per share of vote (where they polled) = SNP obviously.

A friend on FB pointed out that the bitterest ash in the mouths of the Lib Dem faithful must be that a lot of their vote turned to UKIP because they were only ever a protest vote, not the next age of UK political consciousness or whatever the fuck.

Non-FPTP and UKIP: STV or similar is still pretty good at keeping out parties that most of the electorate despises.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 8 May 2015 15:01 (six years ago) link

St Ives takes ages cos they have to fly in ballot boxes from the Scilly Isles.

Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Friday, 8 May 2015 15:02 (six years ago) link

Lab losing Scotland for one and now just reminded we'll have Boundary changes on the way too.

With the trend for female leaders we can look forwrad to Teresa May as perfect Thatcher Mk.II material for next PM.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 15:08 (six years ago) link

The only thing that can stop this: complete economic and worldwide meltdown. Crisis and the spectre of...well, lets stop there.

xyzzzz__, Friday, 8 May 2015 15:08 (six years ago) link

St Ives takes ages cos they have to fly in ballot boxes from the Scilly Isles.

same situation in shetland and orkney, but it didn't take them half as long

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 15:10 (six years ago) link

Smash at this country

Hugh G. Wreckjoke (snoball), Friday, 8 May 2015 15:42 (six years ago) link

Whilst the Silly Isle has voted in a tory govt

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 15:43 (six years ago) link

or the big part of it at least

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 15:43 (six years ago) link

Xps I meant 'smdh' but mobile predictive text wins again.

Hugh G. Wreckjoke (snoball), Friday, 8 May 2015 15:54 (six years ago) link

I think I said this would happen (on here) years ago, but not like this - I think I was saying that they were unlikely to hold the balance of power again as they'd win so few seats, but I wasn't imagining a scenario where the SNP won the whole of Scotland and Labour ended up about 100 seats behind the Tories.

Actually, that's not what I said, now I've found it (about a page down from this) in this discussion of how it was being taken as a given that the Lib Dems would always hold the balance of power from now on:
DEM not gonna CON dis NATION: Rolling UK politics in the short-lived Cleggeron era

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Friday, 8 May 2015 15:55 (six years ago) link

Tim Wigmore @timwig · 19m 19 minutes ago

The BNP got 1,667 votes - drop of 99.7% on 2010

yeovil knievel (NickB), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:07 (six years ago) link

In what way does Scotland actually benefit from this SNP landslide? Sweeping the board in Holyrood I get, they can materially affect things there, but the Tories have no reason or incentive to offer them any concessions at all as far as I can see. And while they'll be grateful to the SNP for killing Labour off there, they could still do something ultra-vindictive there.

Still assuming another Indyref in the next five years is highly unlikely.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 16:07 (six years ago) link

In Westminster, not at all. But then that's the whole point of the indy campaign, innit

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 16:12 (six years ago) link

I suppose it benefits from getting rid of a lot of useless dullard Labour MPs for one.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:13 (six years ago) link

No idea that this new SNP contingent will be like though.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:13 (six years ago) link

Could Labour have headed this off by promising DevoMax and saying that a Labour majority in Westminster was the only way to achieve that? Or was the well basically poisoned by then?

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 16:15 (six years ago) link

Poisoned.

In Westminster, not at all.

Well, they are a bit harder to ignore now there's 50 more of them.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:16 (six years ago) link

(xp) The Vow was basically Devo Max I think?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:17 (six years ago) link

Could Labour have headed this off by promising DevoMax and saying that a Labour majority in Westminster was the only way to achieve that?

Yes, though they'd have had to have started in 2012.

Labour blew themselves up when they stood with the Tories as Better Together. They should have stood alone, and fought not a Scottish campaign but a UK-wide one, selling a vision of a new federal UK that only they could deliver. The way they did it instead presented it as a choice between Independence and the status quo, and they stood with the status quo. Scots don't want either, and while independence was too much to vote for, they'll take the safer option of voting SNP over voting for the status quo.

The campaign should have been "Independence, More Tories or new Labour sunlit uplands". Brown understood that, and his final speech was a too-late attempt to pull it off. Blair McDougall (the unmitiated cunt) didn't, and chose to win the battle rather than the war

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 16:27 (six years ago) link

Lot of cloud cuckoo land stuff from SNP supporters I know on Facebook: "Once the UK votes to leave the EU and Scotland votes to stay in, there will be a constitutional crisis." Errrr, hold on, last I heard voting to stay in the EU was ahead in the polls

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:31 (six years ago) link

the vow wasnt devo max

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:34 (six years ago) link

hold on, last I heard voting to stay in the EU was ahead in the polls

last polls also saw a hung parliament and 2 seats between labour and tories. Opinions can change even on the day of voting.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:35 (six years ago) link

Yeah, voting to stay in the EU is even more likely.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:36 (six years ago) link

They also seem to be under the impression that the Tories won't offer them any further powers thus enraging the Scottish people further - and leading them to do what exactly? Throw a tantrum? Of course the Tories will offer them powers while binning the Barnett Formula and slashing funding. (xxp)

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:36 (six years ago) link

I am not even remotely confident that Britain will vote to stay in the EU, especially once the propaganda machine really gets going.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 16:43 (six years ago) link

SNP get two questions at PMQs a week as third party. That is a huge gift for Salmond against Cameron. Especially a Cameron struggling to hold it together over Europe.

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 16:44 (six years ago) link

Will he be the SNP leader in the commons?

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 16:50 (six years ago) link

I reckon so yes

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 16:56 (six years ago) link

I am not even remotely confident that Britain will vote to stay in the EU, especially once the propaganda machine really gets going.

― Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 16:43 (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It'll be an interesting test - business interest (it's the economy stupid) v press propaganda (tho without perhaps the blanket attacks - presuming The Times and The Independent will be pro europe.

Fizzles, Friday, 8 May 2015 17:02 (six years ago) link

Murdoch surely won't allow the Times to take a pro-European slant. It'll just be more subtly anti while paying lipservice towards balance.

Matt DC, Friday, 8 May 2015 17:04 (six years ago) link

The main movers and shakers in the new government are all in favour of staying in EU aren't they? Gove and IDS are the only ones I can think of that definitely aren't and not sure either of them will even be in the cabinet in 2 years time.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 17:05 (six years ago) link

Also for 30-something years the Right has assumed it had essentially won the battle of ideas, now it's becoming apparent that isn't the case, they are fighting tooth and nail to hang on.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 28 April 2015 12:48 (31 minutes ago)

this isn't remotely true, the coalition parties and ukip combined have 57% in the latest icm poll

― LMAO. GOLD Chrisso. regards, REB (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 28 April 2015 13:28 (1 week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this held within a percent or so, just the internal arrangement of it shifted, pandemic quite correct about the feasibility of selling social democracy (ish) in england even with a salesperson of rather better acumen

though i was wrong about the conservative majority dream, which lives another day

paradoxically it was achieved more via chaotic failure than determinism; they would never have got near it had they not miscalculated the balance in scotland prior to and during the referendum campaign, resulting in snp surge and the golden opportunity to cull all three rivals in england with black propaganda

nakhchivan, Friday, 8 May 2015 17:21 (six years ago) link

lord hutton's analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G04yBNTnmug&feature=youtu.be

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Friday, 8 May 2015 18:39 (six years ago) link

How did that 'vote for the Coalition parties and hopefully they will be much less conservative and much less liberal' thing work out, Independent hacks?

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 21:09 (six years ago) link

ha, much more liberal

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 21:09 (six years ago) link

can someone please map BBC/channel 4 pundits to their political allegiances for me: david dimbleby, laura kuennsberg, jon snow, paul mason, evan davis, emily maitliss, duncan weldon, allegra stratton...

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Friday, 8 May 2015 21:51 (six years ago) link

kirsty wark?

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Friday, 8 May 2015 21:51 (six years ago) link

?Mason and Snow are on the left. Wark possibly too? Maitlis and Stratton right. Don't know about the others. All guesswork tbh.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Friday, 8 May 2015 22:04 (six years ago) link

Dimbleby's a Tory isn't he?

piscesx, Friday, 8 May 2015 22:12 (six years ago) link

has anyone here read Paul Mason's novel?

soref, Friday, 8 May 2015 22:20 (six years ago) link

ive drunk his wine

thoughts you made second posts about (darraghmac), Friday, 8 May 2015 22:22 (six years ago) link

never been sure about wark. She went to an all girls public school in Ayr

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 22:44 (six years ago) link

So has Orson Welles.

http://youtu.be/Nvxwf1jxdaM

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 22:46 (six years ago) link

Xpost

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 8 May 2015 22:46 (six years ago) link

can someone please map BBC/channel 4 pundits to their political allegiances for me

david dimbleby(?), laura kuennsberg, jon snow, paul mason all left. Wark is left - big mates with jack McConnell etc

Allegra Stratton right and I don't know about the others

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 22:46 (six years ago) link

damn, I had hoped he had gone to Wellington School for Girls.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 22:46 (six years ago) link

cant believe dimbleby is is left

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Friday, 8 May 2015 22:47 (six years ago) link

Erk sorry that was meant to be an uncertain right. Though I'm pretty sure but don't know for certain.

Really need to go to bed now

stet, Friday, 8 May 2015 23:18 (six years ago) link

Wake up to find they're bringing back fox hunting. Motherfuckers.

Need to find the weakest seven and start lobbying them

stet, Saturday, 9 May 2015 00:54 (six years ago) link

i know this is a symptom of what happened, but it is so bizarre to meet total despair, disgust, anger and rage with every friend, stranger, and anyone around you, towards last night's result. it just seems so crazy that the people who voted for this are so absent. that's not to say london should dictate, more to say how divided this country is. the entire system is fucked.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Saturday, 9 May 2015 01:06 (six years ago) link

it just seems so crazy that the people who voted for this are so absent

this is so devastating i think
it's like sontag talking about not knowing anyone who knew anyone who voted for bush

tender is the late-night daypart (schlump), Saturday, 9 May 2015 02:29 (six years ago) link

Absolutely agree. I don't have work at the moment (freelancer) and only went out briefly to get some essentials. Head down, didn't want to speak to anyone I might meet in the supermarket (quite a tight community around here so I generally do). Utterly devastated and confused. I guess up here in Scotland there's a little more potential for positive change but equally a potential for punishment, who can say how it will go. It's so brutal. I feel hopeless.

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Saturday, 9 May 2015 03:23 (six years ago) link

If 3 of the main party leaders have resigned what shape will parliamentary bills, debates etc even take?

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Saturday, 9 May 2015 03:28 (six years ago) link

Given that the forecast was for a hung parliament or coalition in which Labour/UKIP/LD would have had more influence, it might be that the three new leaders of those parties feel that they have to compensate by being more oppositional to the Tory government. I'd expect this government to get even less done compared to the outgoing coalition as a result. They're never going to agree enough on anything to present a united front against the government, but they're still going to provide plenty of opposition. Although one area where the three parties might 'agree' is the issue of PR, because they would have all won more seats under that system than they have now.

Hugh G. Wreckjoke (snoball), Saturday, 9 May 2015 08:11 (six years ago) link

The Tories will now be able to go ahead with redrawing constituency boundaries, if anything they'll choose to shore up their position under FTPT, although given the size of their majority they will need to be careful not to shaft any of their own MPs in the process. A lot of Labour MPs are highly sceptical about PR as well.

this held within a percent or so, just the internal arrangement of it shifted, pandemic quite correct about the feasibility of selling social democracy (ish) in england even with a salesperson of rather better acumen

though i was wrong about the conservative majority dream, which lives another day

The swagger of these cunts (slightly reigned in until now) is going to be unbearable, especially by party conference season. I wonder if Cameron is as surprised as the rest of us, although it says a lot for the way expectations have shifted that a very slender and fragile majority feels like a landslide. This government could be weaker than the last, the otherwise assured destruction of the LibDems ensured a reasonable amount of security in big votes. Cameron's decision to call an EU referendum and stand down at the end of the Parliament should partly insulate him from the sort of regicide attempts of the Major era, but he will probably lurch even further to the right to keep them in line. It could also start to look like a government marking time just a couple of years in, now that these things are seen increasingly presidentially.

The debate was more open than in previous elections, and in Scotland has decisively shifted, but I was naive about the effectiveness of the backlash. I guess Miliband was just not trusted/thought capable of delivering his more popular policies.

Deep down though I now suspect that the only thing capable of ejecting a post-Thatcher British government is a housing crash, and this will continue to be the case for as long as owner-occupiers are in the majority. Expect a flood of additional policies aimed at ramping up demand (perversely making the next crash more likely in the process).

Matt DC, Saturday, 9 May 2015 08:24 (six years ago) link

They also seem to be under the impression that the Tories won't offer them any further powers thus enraging the Scottish people further - and leading them to do what exactly? Throw a tantrum? Of course the Tories will offer them powers while binning the Barnett Formula and slashing funding.

What are the constraints like on Scottish government borrowing at the moment? The consequences of Westminster seeming to give more powers away while also enforcing tighter fiscal policy could be horrific.

Matt DC, Saturday, 9 May 2015 08:31 (six years ago) link

I wonder if Cameron is as surprised as the rest of us

aiui, a hell of a lot of Tory MPs had already started making plans for life after office and will be as surprised as anyone they are in for another five years.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Saturday, 9 May 2015 08:41 (six years ago) link

Clegg seemed understandably less than thrilled to not be chucked out of his seat, visibly facing up in his speech to having to fall on his sword and then spend 5 years reporting to the 12-year-old who's running the LibDems next.

The new UKIP leader may or may not be more oppositional to the Tories - they are a ragbag coalition of various lunatics and arseholes formerly with a charismatic leader, so they may tear themselves apart a bit. But their voters (or the non-protest voters anyway) will be well catered for by a Lib Dem-less Tory party with a narrow majority, several of whom have UKIP breathing down their necks.

Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 9 May 2015 08:55 (six years ago) link

The anti-immigrant/anti-EU stance is probably going to keep UKIP from fragmenting, also because they're constrained by trying to appeal to voters by being more right wing on those issues than the Tories, but not so much that they're being called out as racist/disastrous for UK business every five minutes. There's not a lot of room for different policy approaches in that area, particularly with the Tories wanting to appear more right wing to grab on the fence UKIP voters.

Hugh G. Wreckjoke (snoball), Saturday, 9 May 2015 09:59 (six years ago) link

I'm actually dreading the EU referendum, because it looks like the politicians are mostly going to be anti-EU, and that the voice of sanity in the debate is going to have to come from the CBI and other representatives of UK big business.

Hugh G. Wreckjoke (snoball), Saturday, 9 May 2015 10:03 (six years ago) link

Booked yesterday eve in advance to see a play by Doris Lessing (my timing on these things...) w/friend yesterday. Really good all round but there was virtually one topic of conversation..

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 9 May 2015 10:28 (six years ago) link

More politics at the (perhaps soon to be closed) Rich Mix:

http://www.richmix.org.uk/whats-on/event/ww2-end-anniversary-days-of-hope-1945-2015/

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 9 May 2015 11:11 (six years ago) link

xp That was Kael and Nixon, not Sontag and Bush, but the analogy stands.

Continue your brooding monologue (Re-Make/Re-Model), Saturday, 9 May 2015 12:54 (six years ago) link

I'm actually dreading the EU referendum, because it looks like the politicians are mostly going to be anti-EU, and that the voice of sanity in the debate is going to have to come from the CBI and other representatives of UK big business.

On the contrary, bring it on, Cameron and Osborne (and majority of the Tory cabinet) will have to be start being honest about how they want to stay in the EU.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 13:10 (six years ago) link

Idk, the stigma of voting Tory is definitely still there in much of London but it seems to be evaporating. Johnson has probably helped, the shift away from aggressive homophobia has helped, the virtually indistinguishable positions between the main parties on immigration too. A lot of the people younger than me I speak to aren't from wealthy backgrounds but are from communities that place a heavy emphasis on personal responsibility and entrepreneurship. They like some of the messages on tax, law and order, etc, but would have been put off by the hardline social conservatism and transparent racism in the past. It may still be a small proportion voting Tory but it's a much more vocal group than before.xp

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Saturday, 9 May 2015 13:15 (six years ago) link

On the contrary, bring it on, Cameron and Osborne (and majority of the Tory cabinet) will have to be start being honest about how they want to stay in the EU.

― Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:10 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Absolutely!

Steve Reich In The Afternoon (Against The 80s), Saturday, 9 May 2015 13:28 (six years ago) link

Isn't the narrative as follows: Cameron goes to Brussels to get concessions -> does not get enough of them -> sets a referendum in which he has to campaign against the EU as he didn't get enough concessions to stay in it.

Anyway yes looking forward to it.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:16 (six years ago) link

I can't see Cameron campaigning to leave the EU so the narrative will probably be: Cameron goes to Brussels to get concessions -> gets hardly any of them -> paints this as a great triumph against tremendous odds -> asks the British people to allow him to finish the job of reforming the EU. Something like that, but with more of a pro-EU spin on it.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:28 (six years ago) link

How can he do that when he has already said he'd leave after five years? Doubt he'd be able to go back on that as Teresa May has to take over.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:31 (six years ago) link

Allow us to finish the job then. And Osborne will take over, if Cameron has anything to do with it.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:35 (six years ago) link

honestly if we're inevitably going to have an eu referendum i'd rather it be under a tory government led by a pm that isn't from the eurosceptic wing of his party. if labour were forced into this with the opposition and media out for blood i think there'd be far more chance of an exit.

prolego, Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:36 (six years ago) link

Who know, Cameron might not last till 2017!

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:36 (six years ago) link

Lab was never going to be forced into it.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:39 (six years ago) link

They won't do it, but EU could concede to every one of Cameron's demands and there would still be thundering demand for a referendum - I can't see any way in which he can get out of holding one while remaining Prime Minister.

Matt DC, Saturday, 9 May 2015 14:43 (six years ago) link

I've been so far out of the loop the last months due to baby I think I've missed tons because I don't understand half of what's being said at the moment wrt what the Tories are now champing at the bit to do - repeal the Human Rights Act, lift foxhunting ban, EU referendum - I think I assumed most of it was Twitter silliness but are there specific actual reasons for trying to do these things?
this is what happens when you get all your 'news' from social media and ignore it

kinder, Saturday, 9 May 2015 16:55 (six years ago) link

Fox hunting is a dead cert. It's a totemic issue for a lot of their rural support. The rest looks up in the air.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Saturday, 9 May 2015 17:10 (six years ago) link

it's Blair's legacy legislation, placing his feelings about the value of the lives of foxes vs the value of the lives of Iraqis in clear relief

☂ (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 9 May 2015 17:21 (six years ago) link

Tory voters, they and their views are fucking repulsive.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:08 (six years ago) link

Ugh, I've got to stop watching this shit.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:09 (six years ago) link

having a go at the Human Rights Act is pretty certain - it's a manifesto pledge. They want to replace it with a British (English?) bill of rights, some shit like that. I assume they can do it now - I don't know if it's the kind of thing that'll show up the cracks.

woof, Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:24 (six years ago) link

in good news Lib Dems lost £170,500 in deposits.

woof, Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:25 (six years ago) link

heavy and aggressive kettling and arrests at the parliament square protests while elsewhere a heavy police presence is protecting an edl march, c'mon now there's plenty of time to ease in to our dystopian future this is just crude

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:34 (six years ago) link

Right, that's what was going on, i was passed by a dozen police vans while waiting for bus earlier

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:35 (six years ago) link

Nothing about this on the BBC News website. Sign that the Beeb is going to be even more cowed by a Tory government than it was by the coalition?

Hugh G. Wreckjoke (snoball), Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:40 (six years ago) link

awful lot of division in senior lab ranks between Umana (not well-liked politically it seems, but with *some* powerful backing), Hunt (number of senior figures backing him), Burnham (same) and Cooper (again, seemingly not well liked, esp among blairites)

Fizzles, Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:43 (six years ago) link

Burnham is awful. But then, they all are.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:54 (six years ago) link

xxp beeb generally not great at reporting on protests until it has a number of arrests to put in the headline tbh

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 9 May 2015 18:55 (six years ago) link

choosing a new Labour leader is like picking your favourite member of the 1970 Leeds United squad

☂ (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:04 (six years ago) link

says David Peace in a 500 word thinkpiece for the Observer tomorrow

☂ (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:04 (six years ago) link

so the fox hunting thing is purely because a bunch of posh twats aren't over it yet, not for any demonstrable 'reason'
I was wondering if there was a specific Human Right they want to get around idk maybe they can ramp up the kettling even further

kinder, Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:07 (six years ago) link

ramp up the kettling

I find this phrase pleasing :)

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:09 (six years ago) link

Nothing about this on the BBC News website. Sign that the Beeb is going to be even more cowed by a Tory government than it was by the coalition?

BBC News, especially at the weekend, has never really been a breaking news type of organisation. They report news broken by others, sometimes very quickly, but they work off-diary an awful lot of the time. The protestors PR should have rung the newsdesk last week. And what Merdeyeux said.

Human Rights: Fuck, where to start? They don't think criminals or the unemployed should have any rights at all, and May in particular has the hugest hard-on for Stasi-style snooping.

stet, Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:22 (six years ago) link

afaik, they can't actually change any human rights without leaving the ECHR. What they can change is the way they are enforced in British courts. The final court that decides is still Strasbourg - it just makes it much more of a nuisance for people if they have to take it there rather than a domestic venue.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:26 (six years ago) link

xxxppps yes it was kael about nixon, and it she wasn't making the point she's often implied to have been making

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2012/10/The-Fraudulent-Factoid-That-Refuses-to-Die

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:29 (six years ago) link

ramp up the kettling immediately scans to the m/a/r/r/s track

nakhchivan, Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:35 (six years ago) link

I think most Tories are confused about the difference between the ECHR and the EU, and are thinking this renegotiation will mean the "Europe's crazy judges" won't have final say over good old British laws. They'll probably end up lobbying to pull out of the council of Europe as well when they realise

stet, Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:40 (six years ago) link

on human rights act, prisoner voting is I think the particular thing that had them frothing - Europe telling us what to do etc

woof, Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:41 (six years ago) link

prisoners could sometimes vote in the ussr afaik

nakhchivan, Saturday, 9 May 2015 19:58 (six years ago) link

Soviet elections in the late 40's were quite predictable, but it was ill advised to protest about the lack of any discernible choice!

Seeking the appearance of democracy, the Soviet Union held elections, but only one Communist Party candidate appeared on the ballot for each office. Fear of punishment ensured that nearly all Soviet citizens “voted” by taking their ballot and ceremoniously placing it into a ballot box.

In 1949, Ivan Burylov, a beekeeper, protested this absurd ritual by writing the word “Comedy” on his “secret” ballot. Soviet authorities linked the ballot to Burylov and sentenced him to eight years in camps for this “crime.”

xelab, Saturday, 9 May 2015 20:23 (six years ago) link

Even more horrific

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 May 2015 21:17 (six years ago) link

This it is "absolutely time" for a new generation to "step up to a leadership role" thing from Lammy would actually mean he is ruling himself out.

xelab, Saturday, 9 May 2015 21:30 (six years ago) link

there's increasing calls on the backbenches for dan jarvis to run. i don't know much about his ideology but his appeal is clear on paper.

prolego, Saturday, 9 May 2015 21:37 (six years ago) link

ex-forces so xelab's a fan

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Saturday, 9 May 2015 21:44 (six years ago) link

It is academic in this case because I will never vote for labour again, but yeah he does look like an appalling tosser as well!

xelab, Saturday, 9 May 2015 21:52 (six years ago) link

Who better to break with the toxic legacy of Iraq and Afghanistan than a guy who fought in both?

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Saturday, 9 May 2015 22:26 (six years ago) link

yeah but how can the sun and daily mail attack the character of one of our boys?

(they totally can and will)

prolego, Saturday, 9 May 2015 22:31 (six years ago) link

xxp beeb generally not great at reporting on protests until it has a number of arrests to put in the headline tbh

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32678518 ah there we go

cheap lols at the sky website report having the caption "the police claimed around 100 people were involved in the protest" under a photo of several hundred people

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 9 May 2015 22:39 (six years ago) link

These fucks haven't even begun to absorb or comprehend what has actually happened before falling back on whatever their one entrenched position happens to be. Calling for more Blairism at this point is the equivalent of bombing out of a World Cup in the group stages and then immediately calling for a team built around Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard. It's evident from that Chuka Umunna piece that he has no answer to what happened in Scotland (and doesn't want to look too closely in case it leads him to a conclusion he doesn't like).

Jarvis looks at surface level to be meant to appeal to the UKIP/white van man vote, but I'm not sure that vote is big enough to swing seats in the right areas, and UKIP support may collapse anyway without Farage at the helm and with an EU referendum in this Parliament.

I have no idea who Andy Burnham is meant to appeal to.

Matt DC, Sunday, 10 May 2015 09:59 (six years ago) link

this is incredible (can be viewed in an incognito tab if you don't have a login)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/scottish-labour-inside-the-campaign-from-hell.125560928

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Sunday, 10 May 2015 10:19 (six years ago) link

It's evident from that Chuka Ummuna piece that he has no answer to what happened in Scotland (and doesn't want to look too closely in case it leads him to a conclusion he doesn't like).

And if you needed any confirmation of that he's just been on the Andrew Marr Show saying that Jim Murphy had done a good job as leader of the Scottish Labour Party! SNP supporters are delusional on so many fronts but the main one is the idea that "they're going to have to listen to Scotland now", the Labour Party aren't, if the Blairites win the day (which they surely will after Milliband) and the Tories certainly aren't. "We have 56 MPs now, they can't ignore us", yeah well they managed it well enough for decades with the Lib Dems as third party.

By the way, interesting interview with (leading Eurosceptic) David Davis where he said (basically) that benefit tourism from within the EU doesn't exist and that the free movement labour from country is not a big issue and all that he really wants from EU negotiations is an opt out on things the UK doesn't agree - straight bananas and the like I'm assuming. So seems like even Eurosceptic Tories are rowing back on the anti-EU rhetoric and demands now that they've got their majority.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 10:38 (six years ago) link

I don't think that Labour can win without a structure that allows them to simultaneously attack the SNP from the left *and* appeal to soft Tories in the South of England. Ironically Cameron, in one of his moves with unintended consequences, may actually create the conditions for that that if he does offer Scotland more powers as an excuse to slash funding. Whether such a Labour Party deserves to exist is another question entirely.

Has any senior Labour figure come out and said that the party was wrong to hitch its wagon to austerity-lite? That's the biggest single break with the Blair era and it has been largely ignored in the initial soul-searching.

Matt DC, Sunday, 10 May 2015 10:44 (six years ago) link

No, all I've heard is how Labour is has failed to appeal to people with 'aspiration', which people on benefits and on low incomes don't have apparently and who it appears they've wasted their time appealing to. I'm not sure how promising to be tougher on those out of work than the Tories is appealing to them though.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 11:15 (six years ago) link

Blairism is everything but the answer to Labour's current problems. Ed Miliband managed to coax a lot of people back to Labour who were alienated by the real legacy of Blair, which was Iraq. I find it incredible that the people running down Miliband for whatever are praising Jim Murphy, who is obviously an idiot. It's too soon to see what the SNP will be able to do opposing Tories but I'm not

Why oh why was Liam Byrne not thrown on the naughty step for that stupid note at some point in 2010? I do not care if he was joking; well-off white guys always be joking, and we're always supposed to let them. Emily Thornberry had to leave the shadow cabinet for so much less.

David Cameron mentions his son when talking about the NHS *because* it pisses off his political enemies. This can be nipped in the bud merely by saying Ivan Cameron's short life, with all that excellent care he keeps banging on about, happened when the NHS was being enhanced by Labour, because it's true.

camp event (suzy), Sunday, 10 May 2015 11:22 (six years ago) link

*not optimistic.

Remember, David Cameron is all about divide and rule. It's literally the only thing he's good at, and he doesn't give a shit who gets hurt.

camp event (suzy), Sunday, 10 May 2015 11:24 (six years ago) link

I don't think that Labour can win without a structure that allows them to simultaneously attack the SNP from the left *and* appeal to soft Tories in the South of England.

I don't know, it's beginning to look like some Blairites think they can cut Scotland loose and concentrate on the people that really matter to the Labour Party and movement, Tory voters.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 11:50 (six years ago) link

Boundary changes might make this, electorally, a good policy to follow.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 11:51 (six years ago) link

The thing is that the Blairites are probably right about the South of England. Where they are completely wrong is in Scotland and parts of deindustrialised England, and it's apparent they don't know how to cope. Miliband might have attracted back a bit of core vote, but share of the vote means little under FPTP. Labour's share of the vote actually went up a little bit and they still did worse than in 2010. I doubt that the SNP will be exactly desperate to get rid of FTPT at Westminster either, given it's effectively granted them a one-party state.

The problem with the "core vote" is that it's unevenly distributed and quite a bit of it is drifting towards UKIP. I suspect that a lot of the core vote (in England) will, in five years' time, be so desperate to get rid of the Tories that they will vote for any old shit if it's wearing a red rosette. The exception is the voter base who lean left on economic issues and hard to the right on social issues, and that's very difficult territory for Labour.

Let's not forget that Miliband positioned himself significantly to the right of Blair on issues like welfare and immigration, and that strategy comprehensively failed.

All of this only holds if you think the only thing that matters is that the red team beats the blue team at the end.

Matt DC, Sunday, 10 May 2015 12:00 (six years ago) link

Don't see the current levels of support for UKIP persisting tbh.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 12:29 (six years ago) link

going to be some difficulty reconstituting SLAB as an independent party in-and-of-itself. afaik labour doesn't even exist as a registered party in scotland, & is just an accounting unit of labour UK. where will it get its money? no way the unions & union members will agree to transfer their pecuniary allegiance to a brand-new scottish registered party. what will its founding principles be? how will it organise itself? who owns john smith house and, if UK labour, will they relinquish any of it? etc etc

and the irony surely can't be lost on those within labour that they banged on & on so much about the union & brotherhood etc but they're now citing irreconcilable differences - or differences of policy required to address a different political landscape - and becoming separatists. are they giving any thought to the deeper issues that that is a response to... well

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Sunday, 10 May 2015 13:01 (six years ago) link

that chuka umunna article is embarrassing, what a dire communicator - there's enough there to assume he can never be a success, harsh as that may sound. like that's a pretty big moment for him, laying down the gauntlet like this, and he has no clear vision whatsoever. it's just a rambling screed, he writes like someone who lost something irreplaceable at his 1000th four-hour westminster meeting.

it's time to confront things, which in retrospect, we should have done years ago

bad grammar cliche time machine.

That’s why I’ve always argued you cannot be pro-business by beating up on the terms and conditions of their workers and the trade unions that play an important role representing them

i don't know what he means here. i don't understand what this thing he has always argued is.

And sometimes we made it sound like we saw taxing people as a good in itself, rather than a means to an end.

taxing people is a bad!

we should have been the ones championing a smart, efficient public sector that uses technology, co-operative and mutual principles and a pragmatic “what works” approach to get things done.

definitely need more what worksism in government.

he direction we need to taketo rebuild is clear. We must stop looking to the past and focus on ensuring everyone has a stake in the future. Our vision as a party must start with the aspirations of voters: to get on and up in the world, to see their children and grandchildren do better than they did, to get that better job, to move from renting to owning, to take the family on holiday, to move from that flat to that house with a garden. That means offering competence, optimism not fatalism, an end to machine politics, an economic credo that is both pro-worker and pro-business and, most of all, a politics that starts with what unites us as a country rather than what divides us.

sounds really clear. twirling always twirling toward freedom.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Sunday, 10 May 2015 13:34 (six years ago) link

He's just not very intelligent, that's his main problem.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 14:13 (six years ago) link

new vision from Tristram Hunt

Labour need to show they are also on the side of families who want to shop at John Lewis, go on holiday and get a new extension.

mea nulta (onimo), Sunday, 10 May 2015 14:15 (six years ago) link

seats that changed hands

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEpgwMQWMAATE9h.png

mea nulta (onimo), Sunday, 10 May 2015 14:35 (six years ago) link

naive question: why did it not occur to the lib dems to break the coalition at any point over the past five years

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Sunday, 10 May 2015 14:41 (six years ago) link

i mean i guess the answer is, 'because they thought doing so would damage them more with the electorate than seeing it out,' but that seems ludicrous. alternatively i guess 'huge numbers of people who might have been involved with that decision had stopped giving a fuck'

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Sunday, 10 May 2015 14:43 (six years ago) link

maybe over the next five years we'll come to realise how remarkable a moderating force in the coalition they were

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 10 May 2015 14:49 (six years ago) link

The lib dems didn't see this coming. As recently as a couple of weeks ago, Vince Cable was saying that one of the deals for a new Tory/Lib Dem coalition would include him being Chancellor.

Sounds ridiculous now.

quixotic yet visceral (Bob Six), Sunday, 10 May 2015 15:23 (six years ago) link

Chukka Ummuna's article is basically "Let me be clear here, we wish to be all things to all people"

"I will listen to every single voter, and I will say 'I agree'"

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 10 May 2015 15:56 (six years ago) link

lord help us all

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:00 (six years ago) link

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/labour-left-miliband-hating-english

Contrary to what the traffic police tell you, careful driving does not always save lives. Until the moment he careered into the electorate, Ed Miliband was a safe pair of hands. He kept Labour quiet, and hid its divisions. The splits between left and right, which came close to destroying the party when it went into opposition in the 1930s, 1950s and 1980s, did not happen under his leadership. Everything seemed calm. But as his career ends – and what, he may think as he looks back, was the point of all that? – the quiet that Miliband brought looks like the quiet of the grave.

His rule – if that is not too grand a term for so small a thing – was marked by dishonesty in the Labour party and the wider left. The unwillingness to accept uncomfortable truths, and confront comfortable prejudices has done for the British left, or at least that part of it that organises around the Labour movement.

The biggest failure of understanding is the most paradoxical. Labour and the left do not take the right seriously. They dismiss its leaders as greedy fat cats and public school toffs, and do not grasp how formidable they have become. A friend made the point when he told me that at 8.30am on Friday, when Ed Balls lost his seat, the trading floor at Credit Suisse at Canary Wharf erupted with cheers. I don’t doubt there were similar yelps of delight on every other trading floor in the City.

In other words, the power of one of the world’s great trading centres is behind the Tory party. The power is manifest not just in campaign donations, but in the arrogance of financial capitalists, who never allow any number of market failures to dent their self-confidence or the self-confidence of their political allies. If you are going to take them on, you need to be good. In fact, you need to be brilliant.

Yet for the past two elections Labour has stuck with leaders it knew the public thought were useless. It allowed itself to be led by men who were acceptable to Unite and what’s left of the rest of the trade union movement, rather than the public, and did not even try to throw them out when they could see the voters weren’t listening to them.

If this sounds like an appeal for a return to Blairism, it is worth remembering that, since 10 October 1974, no Labour leader apart from Tony Blair has won a general election. And Blair didn’t win by sticking to familiar promises to protect the NHS and welfare state – voters know Labour wants to do both – or by appealing only to public-sector workers and favoured minorities, but by convincing the broad mass of voters he could also protect what limited wealth they enjoyed.

But to say bring back Blairism, as doubtless many on the Labour right will be demanding, is as foolish as saying Labour lost because it wasn’t left-wing enough, as many on the incurably optimistic left are already saying.

Labour did not lose just because it could not appeal to the centre, or picked the wrong Miliband. The problems that threaten to leave it as one party among many don’t fit into conventional notions of left and right. Like so many of its sister parties in Europe, Labour is being swamped by the politics of national identity. The SNP has driven Labour out of virtually every seat in Scotland. The nationalists were mendacious but astonishingly successful in turning Labour into “red Tories” – quislings who had forfeited the right to be true Scots. Labour had no convincing answer to them. South of the Tweed, real Tories could frighten English voters by turning Labour into “red nats”, the accomplices and playthings of their Scottish masters. Labour had no convincing answer to them either. Only in London did the English left triumph. My comrades at the Observer say that, as an educated, multi-cultural and dynamic city, London represents a possible future. Success in the capital speaks well for Labour’s long-term prospects, they say.

The trouble is that the long-term can take a long time coming, and many people will suffer needlessly under Conservative governments before it arrives. In the England that does not look like London, the white, poor, uneducated constituencies that run up the east coast from Kent to Sunderland, Ukip came second in 100 seats. It may fall apart without its charismatic leader. It may one day be seen as a freak movement that dominated debate for a few years, then vanished. But Scots once thought the same about SNP, and the dismal fact remains that Labour could not answer Ukip’s xenophobia any more than it could answer the crude appeals to nationalist loyalty of the SNP and Tories.

It could not because Labour’s leadership of former special advisers does not look like the people it wants to represent and does not look as if it likes the look of them either. In this, it is typical of the wider educated left in England, which almost alone in the world, makes a virtue of denigrating its own people.

The universities, left press, and the arts characterise the English middle-class as Mail-reading misers, who are sexist, racist and homophobic to boot. Meanwhile, they characterise the white working class as lardy Sun-reading slobs, who are, since you asked, also sexist, racist and homophobic. The national history is reduced to one long imperial crime, and the notion that the English are not such a bad bunch with many strong radical traditions worth preserving is rejected as risibly complacent. So tainted and untrustworthy are they that they must be told what they can say and how they should behave.

What truth there is in the caricature is lost amid the accompanying hypocrisy. The intellectual left deplores racism but uses “white” as an insult. It lambasts the sexism of the right, but stays silent as Labour candidates run meetings where Muslim women’s inferiority is confirmed by stewards who usher them into segregated seating .

Lost, too, is any notion of how to change a society. Countries are like individuals. They will take criticism from friends and family who have their best interests at heart. If opponents make the same criticisms for the same good reasons, however, they dismiss them as insults from people who only mean them harm.

If the left is going to come back, its first task is to show that, deplorable and stupid though we undoubtedly are, in so many different and disgraceful ways, it doesn’t actually think the English are its enemies.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:11 (six years ago) link

...Ukip came second in 100 seats. It may fall apart without its charismatic leader. It may one day be seen as a freak movement that dominated debate for a few years, then vanished. But Scots once thought the same about SNP

No they didn't

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:15 (six years ago) link

May as well stop reading there.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:15 (six years ago) link

... I wish I had tbh!

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:18 (six years ago) link

Also, as you might have gathered, I am no supporter of the SNP, but to attribute their success to as down to 'crude appeals to nationalist loyalty' is as stupid and short-sighted as anything he attributes to the Labour Party.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:19 (six years ago) link

He also doesn't realise that scots 'nationalism' isnt like the english/british kind. He's a friend of a friend on FB so I asked him about Scotland and put across my view of yes voters/snp/independence lets see if I get a reply.

Tom I felt as if this was aimed at ilx ;) (yeah like he's aware of ilx haha)

The universities, left press, and the arts characterise the English middle-class as Mail-reading misers, who are sexist, racist and homophobic to boot. Meanwhile, they characterise the white working class as lardy Sun-reading slobs, who are, since you asked, also sexist, racist and homophobic. The national history is reduced to one long imperial crime, and the notion that the English are not such a bad bunch with many strong radical traditions worth preserving is rejected as risibly complacent. So tainted and untrustworthy are they that they must be told what they can say and how they should behave.

What truth there is in the caricature is lost amid the accompanying hypocrisy. The intellectual left deplores racism but uses “white” as an insult. It lambasts the sexism of the right, but stays silent as Labour candidates run meetings where Muslim women’s inferiority is confirmed by stewards who usher them into segregated seating .

Lost, too, is any notion of how to change a society. Countries are like individuals. They will take criticism from friends and family who have their best interests at heart. If opponents make the same criticisms for the same good reasons, however, they dismiss them as insults from people who only mean them harm.

If the left is going to come back, its first task is to show that, deplorable and stupid though we undoubtedly are, in so many different and disgraceful ways, it doesn’t actually think the English are its enemies.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:19 (six years ago) link

I don't think that Scottish 'nationalism' is that different from any other kind tbh. But you don't have to be a a nationalist to vote SNP.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:21 (six years ago) link

yup, tom. you got it (you didn't until last year tbh)

I said that i felt Salmond was a nationalist, probably a centrist and a pragmatic politician whilst I felt that Nicola Sturgeon was a left-leaning Social Democrat and that is why the SNP resonates with 50% of the Scottish electorate who think labour are too right wing.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:22 (six years ago) link

tbh with the huge intake of new members wanting independence I think its possible that actual nationalists in the SNP are well outnumbered. It's a real new shift in politics in Scotland.
It's not Salmond's lion roaring braveheart stuff anymore.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:24 (six years ago) link

I hope not. But, here we go again, the Labour Party is absolutely fucking annihilated and humiliated in Scotland and what do the handwringers in the media want to talk about: the Labour Party is too left wing and not paying enough attention to the English.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:34 (six years ago) link

yup, better together my arse? Scotland didn't do as we want so who cares about them, we don't need them anymore.
They just want to copy Cameron's English nationalism he opted for publicly the day after the referendum.
If that type of person takes over the labour party then its done for and no independent of uk labour party (as has been proposed up here) who will win in scotland either.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 16:40 (six years ago) link

Another thing to bear in mind is that a lot of those LibDem seats that went blue are going to remain so for a very long time. One of the reasons that Labour were able to win elections under Blair was that the LibDems were chipping away at the Tories - they doubled their number of seats in 1997. That isn't going to happen for a very long time and the Tories will have a nice cushion over Labour regardless of what happens in Scotland.

Meanwhile Labour and the LibDems currently have a substantial blocking majority in the House of Lords. God, this Parliament is going to be a miserable clusterfuck for so many reasons.

Matt DC, Sunday, 10 May 2015 17:58 (six years ago) link

kudos to the blairites. they've been mining their fat rolodexes non-stop since friday morning, delivering their spontaneous (i.e. pre-planned) hot takes on the failures of red ed. trying to socialise the bitter idea that the party has to shift right

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Sunday, 10 May 2015 19:46 (six years ago) link

nick cohen using the past its sell-by date quirk of english to conflate two completely different philosophies. other european languages have two words for these things. "nationalist": someone who believes their nation / people are inherently superior (whether by race, history, morality etc) & should be pre-eminent amongst nations, have more power than, or power-over other nations. "independista": someone who believes their country is as good as other countries & should be governed by the people who live in it & know it.

the irony during indyref was that it was the unionist side that made a constant appeal to tribal ethnic scottishness: "I'm a proud scot but..." went the line for weeks

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:00 (six years ago) link

It also doesn't help that people think the N in SNP stands for Nationalist.

ailsa, Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:04 (six years ago) link

*some* people, that should say

ailsa, Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:05 (six years ago) link

yeah it's simply 'National' but I gave up a year ago trying to tell people that.

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:23 (six years ago) link

and it wasnt just those with union flag avatars on their profile pics either. it was irl people too. they just believe what they want to believe in some cases

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:25 (six years ago) link

strangely enough, but English friends online, who didn't get it before (and a lot did) , started to get it this week. Most dont want Scotland to leave the UK as they think that will leave with the tories and think federalism is the answer. Ive not seen many people arguing for that up here. It seems to be mostly yes vs no with some on both sides saying devo max, but devo max is not federalism, right?

Anyone care to explain federalism to me?

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:31 (six years ago) link

was reading up on the new fabulous/fighting/feeble (delete as appropriate) 56 earlier: looks like a higher proportion of them are more experienced than the blair intake of labour MPs. many seem to be mature people who have had a life. there's also at least a dozen experienced MPs incl. just abt the most experienced politician in the UK to guide them on parliamentary processes

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:35 (six years ago) link

Yeah, but everyone's focussing on Mhairi Black and going "lol, teenager acted like a teenager, lol Scotland" etc.

ailsa, Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:36 (six years ago) link

"everyone" being about five people on Twitter and some mates in the pub. I'm all about the generalisations, it must be catching.

ailsa, Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:37 (six years ago) link

mhairi black who won against 1. an incumbent and 2. very experienced and wily career politician 3. whose party were funneling resources at and 4. who was shadow foreign secretary and 5. labour's campaign strategist.

as far as I've seen reported, she won her place in parliament (& in history) by knocking just about every door in paisley. well done & good luck to her

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:43 (six years ago) link

Yeah, and by being passionate, articulate, and sympathetic to the needs of the constituents. But that doesn't stop there being a weird "but she's 20! And she said some stuff on twitter before she went into politics!" narrative surrounding her.

ailsa, Sunday, 10 May 2015 20:57 (six years ago) link

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/10/election-2015-where-the-votes-switched-and-why
"The way forward for Labour is not clear, as the different groups that shunned the party in 2015 make contradictory demands for change....The choice is hard: any shift to appeal to one group risks alienating others. Yet attempting to offer something to everyone, as Ed Miliband’s Labour often seemed to do, risks satisfying no one."

That sums it up pretty well.

(Meme From) Essex Press (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Sunday, 10 May 2015 21:05 (six years ago) link

school > politics degree > parliament & she describes Douglas Alexander as a career politician

also her SNP biog has an apostrophe in "MPs" - is this the sort of person we want running out country?
xp

mea nulta (onimo), Sunday, 10 May 2015 21:06 (six years ago) link

Yeah, my sister is always posting shite abt Milliband and Jim Murphy never having had a proper job... and she voted for her!

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 21:12 (six years ago) link

didnt jim purphy once make a thing about being university educated until people found out he never actually passed his degree course?

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Sunday, 10 May 2015 21:18 (six years ago) link

Looking forward to her being pulled up for never having had a proper job in 10-15 years time.

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 21:19 (six years ago) link

I don't think she's passed her degree course yet (xp)

Cram Session in Goniometry (Tom D.), Sunday, 10 May 2015 21:24 (six years ago) link

tbf, conversation around these parts does tend to focus on her because, well, she's from round these parts. And because she's very newsworthy, more so than the other - as you say - experienced and mature political bods who are heading for Westminster.

ailsa, Sunday, 10 May 2015 21:51 (six years ago) link

This SNP victory is largely pyrrhic. The Tories will go down the route of devolving more powers not out of the goodness of their hearts or new-found respect for the Democratic choices of Scots. They will use it as a smokescreen to massively reduce central government funding and create a situation where the SNP have to enact their own unpopular policies (either spending cuts or big tax rises).

They want the sheen to come off the SNP's left wing credentials so that when people complain, the Tories can go "see, you asked for this it'll get worse under independence". Not saying everyone will fall for it but probably enough to make a second No vote a likelihood.

Matt DC, Sunday, 10 May 2015 21:59 (six years ago) link

I agree. It's ironic enough that they'd have had the better settlement by working with Labour.

camp event (suzy), Sunday, 10 May 2015 22:16 (six years ago) link

Dimbleby was trying to draw John Swinney on that on QT on Friday, "so you want full fiscal autonomy, the Barnett formula scrapped and all the revenue raised in Scotland given to Scotland for them to spend as you see fit?" "no, we want to be able to spend the money Scotland has on the areas we think will best benefit Scotland and stimulate the Scottish economy."

the bowels are not what they seem (aldo), Sunday, 10 May 2015 22:23 (six years ago) link

If I was judged on everything I said when I was 15 I would never be allowed to do anything, ever. And I'm definitely all for having better representation of both women and young women. But as an inhabitant of Mhairi Black's constituency I feel troubled that she is my representative. I would love for her to prove me wrong but I'm not convinced that at twenty years old, having only ever been in full-time education or behind the counter of the local chip shop, she has the skills needed to be a day-to-day constituency representative: it's a job that needs tact and diplomacy and understanding yet firmness and confidence and self-belief, and I'm not sure how much she can have of all this at this point in her life. I'm not talking about the standing up in Parliament giving speeches and winning support, I'm thinking of when someone comes to see her in her office about a local concern and she has to say no to something for a valid reason. This is of course based on projecting my experience of being twenty and the students I work with on a daily basis - I'm working from some uncomfortable assumptions and she could be a lot more up to the job than I would expect from what I have seen of her and her potential.

It's not like there are a great deal of MPs who *do* have much more life experience - six months in a law firm seems to be standard training at this point - and I do hope that she is up to it, not just for the sake of my town but for the sake of herself: with all the press spotlight on her distinctive newsworthy character there's a sense that the media are waiting for her first major fuck-up, and that seems really sad regardless of how I feel about the SNP. I really do hope that she's being under-estimated.

boxedjoy, Sunday, 10 May 2015 22:51 (six years ago) link

The SNP is not short of existing representatives to give her some on-the-job training, though.

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 10 May 2015 22:59 (six years ago) link

didnt jim purphy once make a thing about being university educated until people found out he never actually passed his degree course?

9 years at uni without graduating - spent years of that on NUS duties.

mea nulta (onimo), Sunday, 10 May 2015 23:33 (six years ago) link

He matriculated at Strathclyde in 1985 and left without a degree in 1997. The nine year thing excludes a number of years out/gap years/whatever.

everything, Monday, 11 May 2015 04:45 (six years ago) link

i agree that nobody under the age of 40 shd be allowed to stand for parliament

☂ (Noodle Vague), Monday, 11 May 2015 06:29 (six years ago) link

I see that Farage is talking about running for the Leadership of UKIP, i.e. what he's just resigned from.

Mark G, Monday, 11 May 2015 07:06 (six years ago) link

that seemed p likely all along and can be trumpeted as being 'for the good of the party', which tbf it probably would be

pull blart, maul cops (DJ Mencap), Monday, 11 May 2015 07:58 (six years ago) link

The pro-Tea Party pro-debt ceiling Javid gets Business. That'll do wonders for their reputation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/8677520/Westminster-needs-a-debt-ceiling-too.html

stet, Monday, 11 May 2015 09:52 (six years ago) link

Priti Patel, the junior Treasury minister, was a familiar face on TV during the general election campaign, putting the Conservative party line forcefully, and less robotically than many other frontbenchers put up by CCHQ. We’re going to be hearing more from her. She is replacing Esther McVey, the former employment minister who lost her seat, and she will be on the screens every month when new employment figures come out.
For a party that has historically short of women and minority ethnic figures at the top, Patel’s promotion ticks two boxes at the same time, but she is not someone whose rise has been accompanied by offstage whispers about tokenism. She has had a long background in politics, working for the party as a press officer in the William Hague era, when joining the Tories was not an option for careerists, and she has robust, rightwing views, which she never made much effort to conceal. Before Patel joined the Conservatives, Patel worked for the Referendum party, Sir James Goldsmith’s Eurosceptic party, before the 1997 election. She is also one of the relatively few MPs who has openly advocated the return of hanging.

p:s nerds know (dog latin), Monday, 11 May 2015 10:38 (six years ago) link

She is also one of the relatively few MPs who has openly advocated the return of hanging.

Another one being Michael Gove, the new Justice Secretary

yeovil knievel (NickB), Monday, 11 May 2015 10:50 (six years ago) link

I'm sure there must be a few more shy hangers out there.

p:s nerds know (dog latin), Monday, 11 May 2015 11:18 (six years ago) link

Considering Cameron's first Justice Secretary was allegedly [CONFIDENTIAL MODERATOR EDIT], Gove represents something of a step up.

Matt DC, Monday, 11 May 2015 13:09 (six years ago) link

is that a gag or are we in super-injunction territory

♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, 11 May 2015 13:18 (six years ago) link

it's a gag either way amirite

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Monday, 11 May 2015 13:20 (six years ago) link

shy hangers

v cute

ogmor, Monday, 11 May 2015 13:57 (six years ago) link

The Daily Express are going with a front page that proclaims: "Hello, Hello, I'm Back Again!" um, ah..

Mark G, Monday, 11 May 2015 15:08 (six years ago) link

the executive rejects his resignation so he's now... what? staying there as party leader against his will?

bizarro gazzara, Monday, 11 May 2015 15:52 (six years ago) link

He clearly wants to just get down the pub and fuck off on holiday for a few months, and then he realised that there's literally nothing than he would be expected to do for the rest of this year in any case.

Matt DC, Monday, 11 May 2015 15:55 (six years ago) link

Keep thinking about the Labour leadership question and I'm sort of wondering whether it really is mostly a case of having a leader who doesn't come across as an introverted weirdo.

Matt DC, Monday, 11 May 2015 15:55 (six years ago) link

He clearly wants to just get down the pub and fuck off on holiday for a few months, and then he realised that there's literally nothing than he would be expected to do for the rest of this year in any case.

He could bloody well turn up for his job in Europe, like.

stet, Monday, 11 May 2015 16:04 (six years ago) link

xxp he's still an MEP! There was a letter to him doing the rounds on Facebook earlier saying hey Nige, your health seems to have improved and you're not bothered by the election any more, surely this tosh about you taking the summer off was some sort of typo, you're not one of those lazy slack MEPs you're always railing against, right?

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 11 May 2015 16:13 (six years ago) link

Oh, Grant Scnapps has been demoted...

Mark G, Monday, 11 May 2015 18:57 (six years ago) link

let's see if anyone can think of a new uk politics thread title before matt dc

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Monday, 11 May 2015 19:09 (six years ago) link

actually that 'why did you vote conservative' one should do

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Monday, 11 May 2015 19:10 (six years ago) link

"why did evil cunts vote conservative"

Eric Burdon & War, On Drugs (Cosmic Slop), Monday, 11 May 2015 19:25 (six years ago) link

That thread should really just be allowed to die a quiet death.

Christ, 2020 is a long way away.

Matt DC, Monday, 11 May 2015 19:27 (six years ago) link

Leave it for a few days then lock it. Waste of time.

You've had your say, now it's my turn (Tom D.), Monday, 11 May 2015 19:35 (six years ago) link

Spoke too soon, another customer!

You've had your say, now it's my turn (Tom D.), Monday, 11 May 2015 19:44 (six years ago) link

thread title: 'Have you ever kissed a Shy Tory?'

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Monday, 11 May 2015 19:47 (six years ago) link

keep the meme alive turrers

an absolute feast of hardcore fanboy LOLs surrounding (imago), Monday, 11 May 2015 20:45 (six years ago) link

Was listening to Dave Mili on R4 earlier, he was sounding deluded and bitter. Like he thinks his version of opposition would have been a roaring success in comparison to his bro's because it includes "aspirational people", what a fucking worthless turd. Does he really think that in the labour heartlands people would love to vote for someone threatening to throttle you with both hands rather than just the one? And he would have bombed just as badly as bro in the tory marginals.

xelab, Monday, 11 May 2015 21:58 (six years ago) link

there may be truth in their argument that a "left of centre" (bitter, bitter lols) Labour party can't win an election. their conclusion - that you just keep moving right, chasing those votes, because that's what a political party does - is base cynicism.

blaming the electorate is a terrible thing, they are millions of nice people who just want what's best for their families and to live in relative security and comfort and the warm glow of knowing that every undeserving human being - which is basically everybody who is different to them who they have no understanding or knowledge of - gets nothing from the government but punishment.

☂ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 05:33 (six years ago) link

That's the thing, "aspirational" is just code for a certain kind of voter, in reality most people are aspirational in one way or another, ways that aren't always about naked acquisitiveness.

But it isn't really about aspiration, it's about fear. Even relatively well off people feel insecure, especially post-2008. You can take any socialist or for that matter several right-wing policies and wave them under the electorate's nose and they'll say they like them in isolation. But if, fuelled by the media, they ultimately worry that you'll wreck everything either through mendacity or basic incompetence then they won't vote for you. It's why they rejected Brown and Major and it's much of the electorate took a look at Miliband and Balls and for that matter Hague and Howard and IDS if they'd had the chance and decided no.

Miliband just wasn't good enough at deflecting that fear, if anything he compounded it, while the SNP were able to convince people that they could both run Scotland competently AND give enough of a shit to show a way out for the thousands of people to whom the worst might already be happening.

There are many other factors at play, but the more the Tories run down the welfare state the worse these feelings of insecurity are going to get, and conversely they will probably continue to benefit from them, until such point as they suddenly don't.

One of the few surprising things to have come out of Labour over the past few days was Blair admitting he hasn't paid enough attention to inequality, and Miliband was right to focus on it. No senior Labour figure should even think about talking about "aspiration" without also talking about inequality and poverty. Aspirations don't mean shit if the government is systematically removing any means you might have to achieve it.

David Miliband just comes across like Harry Redknapp shaking his fist, oblivious to the fact he would have done just as badly. The tabloids would have printed that banana photo every day for five years and he'd have been ridiculed just like his brother.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 08:11 (six years ago) link

Also they have to actually be honest about the fact that the aspirations and interests of different voters constantly clash with one another and stop pretending to be all things to all people. Actually it seems like they're already making that choice while ignoring the flood of people abandoning them from the other direction.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 08:30 (six years ago) link

if one accepts the concept of poverty of aspiration does a central focus on the aspirational mean focusing on the privileged I guess so

conrad, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 08:36 (six years ago) link

the more the Tories run down the welfare state the worse these feelings of insecurity are going to get, and conversely they will probably continue to benefit from them, until such point as they suddenly don't

this is what this 'blue collar conservatism' thing is all about right? a vision of everyone treading on each others heads to get in to the lifeboat, which then starts sinking anyway

yeovil knievel (NickB), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 09:00 (six years ago) link

UGH. David Miliband was such a dick yesterday. It must have been difficult growing up as London's answer to Alex P. Keaton.

camp event (suzy), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:04 (six years ago) link

i liked what the Compass fella said on Newnight last night, that the Labour party needs to be about collective aspiration: the aspiration for good wages, an education, an affordable place to live, a fair society, for clean air to breathe

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:11 (six years ago) link

UGH. David Miliband was such a dick yesterday.

yeah - agree.
nagl.
but hey he now works for a big global charity raising millions etc, so, its all good.

mark e, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 10:20 (six years ago) link

"Blue collar conservatism" is probably a bit of reheated divide-and-rule Thatcherism aimed at winning back parts of the working class Labour vote, but particularly in hoovering up the voters who have defected to UKIP.

In my lifetime at least, the Tory view has usually been that there are two working classes, the ones who are interested in social mobility who should be helped (as long as it doesn't hinder the people with actual money), and the others, who policy makers basically shouldn't bother with. I don't really believe that "poverty of aspiration" is as widespread as these people say it is, certainly not among kids, but it is a useful tool if your aim is to decide who you should allow to basically starve.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 11:47 (six years ago) link

We were sitting in the garden of David Miliband's local in Primrose Hill yesterday when news of that actual incident of filial backstabbery came through.

camp event (suzy), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 12:04 (six years ago) link

was it really back-stabbing? the newspapers had it as "blasts" ed but when i read the article it seemed there was nothing in there to justify the headline, as per usual.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 12:18 (six years ago) link

Agree - in the bbc interview I saw he chose his words really carefully and took great pains not to be backstabbing. Tbh I think the interview was more to leave him open to come back at a later stage than to settle a score with Ed.

quixotic yet visceral (Bob Six), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 12:22 (six years ago) link

Scintillating curveball 'let's ask his betrayed brother what he thinks about this' tactics from the press.

nashwan, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 12:30 (six years ago) link

i reckon he should have held back from any interview for a few weeks.
let things settle.
no matter what he said, it was going to be portrayed this way.

mark e, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 12:33 (six years ago) link

the only bit that felt cold to me, but not an attack, was when they asked if he's in touch with ed and his answer was something like "we speak" rather than "of course, he's my brother"... but that was more revelatory than critical.

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 12:45 (six years ago) link

Scintillating curveball 'let's ask his betrayed brother what he thinks about this' tactics from the press.

.. except it had been "DMil will be issuing a statement later on today", so I don't think the press were involved, directly.

Mark G, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 13:01 (six years ago) link

'let's see if his betrayed brother will tell us what he thinks without any prompting at all'? got it

nashwan, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 13:21 (six years ago) link

yup.

I think it was more "Oh well, now they'll all come asking, guess I'd better say something, oh well..."

Mark G, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 13:29 (six years ago) link

so the conservatives want to repeal HRA and replace it with a UK-wide bill of rights but human rights are a devolved issue in scotland. this means that if WM wants to enact legislation which applies to scotland in this area, they either have to obtain the consent of the scottish govt first (under the sewell convention) or enact it anyway in direct contravention of the convention. the scottish govt have already signalled that they will withhold their consent to this

trust conservative toad michael gove to blindly trundle down a potentially constitutionally explosive alleyway in his first few days in office

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 16:56 (six years ago) link

Meanwhile the SNP are mischief-making in the Telegraph and saying they're trying to talk to the more liberal Tories about striking down the snooper's charter.

This would all be great fun if people weren't dying.

stet, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 16:57 (six years ago) link

either (i) their plans have been sketched on the back of a fag packet or (ii) this is a political ruse they know can't go through but will appease their backbenches and also allow them to further bemoan the scottish horde (or even (iii) both.)

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 16:57 (six years ago) link

My guess is that they're not really that arsed about repealing it and just wanted the headlines, and the SNP will provide a convenient way out while ensuring they get to make the right kind of noises until everyone loses interest and the policy is quietly binned.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 17:05 (six years ago) link

So yeah, ii there.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 17:09 (six years ago) link

originally a Grayling fag packet scheme? I think he was pretty regularly called 'legally illiterate'. ianal but everything I've ever read makes it sound either pointless and hideously complicated or hideously complicated and unworkable.

Suspect it may have moved from cat i towards cat ii over time.

woof, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 17:25 (six years ago) link

Add Ireland to that mix too http://www.caj.org.uk/contents/1293

But I think they do genuinely hate it. Rights for prisoners? Having to give Our Boys rights while deployed? Not being allowed send those filthy foreign back where they came from if their lives would be in danger? Not being allowed to snoop on people? Blood boils at the very thought.

stet, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 17:50 (six years ago) link

all these people passing round the "why do Tories hate human rights" gifs shd know the answer is really simple - these are people who never fall foul of the law - not the real law - and don't give a fuck what happens to those who do, in fact they want the punishment to be as medieval as possible because hey, they've never broken the law so everybody who does is some kind of poison that needs excising from the populace

☂ (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 17:59 (six years ago) link

yeah if you've got nothing to hide why would you be against a snooper's charter *stuffs fist down own throat*

hot doug stamper (||||||||), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 18:01 (six years ago) link

1901 hrs:  subject observed taking part in fisting incident

mea nulta (onimo), Tuesday, 12 May 2015 19:47 (six years ago) link

These stories of plane loads of bankers cheering things like "Ed Balls is gone" on Friday remind me what's at stake with these cunts.

stet, Tuesday, 12 May 2015 23:28 (six years ago) link

Cameron: “For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/13/counter-terrorism-bill-extremism-disruption-orders-david-cameron

p:s nerds know (dog latin), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 10:39 (six years ago) link

And we all thought Clegg was basically bullshitting about having watered all this stuff down.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 10:47 (six years ago) link

i'd say it was an unbelievable quote but...

p:s nerds know (dog latin), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 10:48 (six years ago) link

The definition of harmful is to include a risk of public disorder, a risk of harassment, alarm or distress or creating a “threat to the functioning of democracy”.

a risk of distress? fuck me

woof, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 10:52 (six years ago) link

creating a rival threat he means

nashwan, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 10:56 (six years ago) link

among the extremists theresa may has said she's looking to root out are the 'neo-marxists', i'm gonna be so bummed out when all of my friends are in prison

cis-het shitlord (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 10:56 (six years ago) link

“For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone."

This is truly an astonishing quote.

TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 11:00 (six years ago) link

utterly crazy

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 11:03 (six years ago) link

The supposed context just makes it worse. Apparently now the government has to decide to take a stand on what "views" are acceptable.

The Tories are mental authoritarians, but they also have a long tradition of small-state pro-liberty types, and I think a good faction of their MPs are still subscribers. Surely this won't swing with them?

stet, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 11:11 (six years ago) link

Oh, they would also like to curtail freedom of information, in the wake of the black spider ruling.

stet, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 11:14 (six years ago) link

The aim is to catch not just those who spread or incite hatred on the grounds of gender, race or religion but also those who undertake harmful activities for the “purpose of overthrowing democracy”

hold on maybe it'll have its uses

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Wednesday, 13 May 2015 11:14 (six years ago) link

Protecting free speech by banning hate-speakers. No longer tolerating the causing of extremism through neutrality.

nashwan, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 11:17 (six years ago) link

a requirement to submit to the police in advance any proposed publication on the web and social media

stet can you get the system to do this automatically? v inconvenient if neo-marxists have to go to the police station to post.

woof, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 11:18 (six years ago) link

They don't recognise the state, the newsagent next door is getting quite annoyed.

Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 13 May 2015 11:23 (six years ago) link

Most of the blame, inevitably, is being aimed at the leader’s office. ‘When the campaign started we were told we had to clear all leaflet design past the leader’s office,’ said one party worker. ‘We thought that would be a nightmare, but for the first part of the campaign it worked really well. We’d email the art, and about an hour or so later we’d get the response, “Great. Go with this.” Then one day someone got the message, “Excellent. All good.” But when they went to respond they realised they’d failed to insert the original attachment.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9528312/inside-the-milibunker-the-last-days-of-ed-did-ed-miliband-sacrifice-ed-balls/

nakhchivan, Thursday, 14 May 2015 14:56 (six years ago) link

trigger warning: dan hodges

nakhchivan, Thursday, 14 May 2015 14:59 (six years ago) link

wtf

Another Labour insider told of the scene in the press office when Miliband posed with the notorious Ed stone, the 8ft 6in slab of limestone upon which his six key election pledges were inscribed. When it appeared on TV, a press officer ‘started screaming. He stood in the office, just screaming over and over again at the screen. It was so bad they thought he was having a breakdown.’

bizarro gazzara, Thursday, 14 May 2015 17:28 (six years ago) link

Mary Creagh has thrown her hat in the ring for Labour leader. Even smaller majority than Ben Bradshaw, iirc.

She has always struck me as broadly competent but not a particularly confident speaker.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Thursday, 14 May 2015 17:49 (six years ago) link

As far as I can see, Chuka Umunna is the only one to have had a job outside politics, and that was at a law firm so doesn't count. Surely they can't all be so lacking in self awareness not to see this is a problem.

How they position themselves on the issue of austerity will be instructive, my suspicion is they will all just bobble their heads around while going "tough choices, financial discipline, aspiration" over again.

Matt DC, Thursday, 14 May 2015 18:03 (six years ago) link

they can sort of hope that by the time any of them get a shot at PM there'll be no welfare state left and austerity will cease to be meaningful tbf

☂ (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 14 May 2015 18:16 (six years ago) link

Austerity clearly doesn't work, what would have been so hard about taking that and running with it?

tsrobodo, Thursday, 14 May 2015 20:24 (six years ago) link

A group of disabled people is taking the government to the High Court over delays in benefit payments.

This was on News 24 this morning and then it abruptly disappeared and is now just a minute paragraph on the bbc website.

xelab, Thursday, 14 May 2015 20:51 (six years ago) link

When it appeared on TV, a press officer ‘started screaming. He stood in the office, just screaming over and over again at the screen. It was so bad they thought he was having a breakdown.’

2001. apes. monolith.

mark e, Thursday, 14 May 2015 21:21 (six years ago) link

Then one day someone got the message, “Excellent. All good.” But when they went to respond they realised they’d failed to insert the original attachment.

I laughed. I read the article. And then, god help me, I read the comments. People who think Miliband is a Marxist and the BBC was "relentlessly" pro-Labour.

I know, I know, it's the Spectator.

5 years of this. And then...

...then...

undergraduate dance (a passing spacecadet), Thursday, 14 May 2015 21:46 (six years ago) link

Unless there's another economic disaster in the next five years, I can't foresee any situation in which they don't get back in in 5yrs time, especially if Scotland continues down this path, the LibDems remain toxic and the Tories get free reign to redraw constituency boundaries, all of which seem extremely likely right now.

Matt DC, Friday, 15 May 2015 08:44 (six years ago) link

discrediting of the Major government in the run up to 1997 was barely about the economic record/situation and all about a sustained portrayal of the Gov as corrupt, complacent etc. one of the key factors that allowed this strategy to work was the relative ungovernability of backbenchers in a government with a tiny majority.

all those conditions are in place given a Labour leader sufficiently Mandelsonian/morally vacant

☂ (Noodle Vague), Friday, 15 May 2015 08:51 (six years ago) link

Yeah but the right wing press wouldn't have thrown all that shit at them in the first place if they hadn't been furious at them for Black Wednesday and the collapse in value of their houses.

Matt DC, Friday, 15 May 2015 08:53 (six years ago) link

fair enough. plenty of scope over the next 5 years for economic mismanagement tho.

(NB I'm only speculating, god knows there's nothing to look forward to in a nu-Blairite victory in 2020)

☂ (Noodle Vague), Friday, 15 May 2015 08:57 (six years ago) link

Anthony King believes that the Tories lost two seats in 1997 due to perceived corruption and that everything else was set in stone after Black Wednesday.

Petite Lamela (ShariVari), Friday, 15 May 2015 08:58 (six years ago) link

PA reporting this:

#Breaking Shadow business secretary Chuka Umunna has withdrawn from the Labour party leadership contest
https://twitter.com/pressassoc/status/599146131294027776

djmartian, Friday, 15 May 2015 09:42 (six years ago) link

Thing is, if every thingwas wine and roses as far as te economy was concerned, there could well be a swell of people saying "Yes, but where is my reward?" because the Tories will be very keen to keep the proceeds to those they perceive to have the right to it.

Mark G, Friday, 15 May 2015 09:44 (six years ago) link

Your reward is waiting around the bend, you non-aspirational loser.

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 15 May 2015 09:52 (six years ago) link

more on Chuka Umunna

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32748106

But he said in a statement that he was not comfortable with the level of pressure that came with being a leadership candidate.

djmartian, Friday, 15 May 2015 09:54 (six years ago) link

what a choke

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 15 May 2015 09:58 (six years ago) link

As far as I can see, Chuka Umunna is the only one to have had a job outside politics, and that was at a law firm so doesn't count.

the other lol exception is Hunt.

woof, Friday, 15 May 2015 10:15 (six years ago) link

now there are rumours it's because he's putting himself forward as london mayor.

p:s nerds know (dog latin), Friday, 15 May 2015 10:38 (six years ago) link

Either that or he's decided 2020 is beyond Labour and he'd rather follow the next loser than be the next loser. At 36, he can afford to wait.

mea nulta (onimo), Friday, 15 May 2015 11:18 (six years ago) link

Other rumours are that he's quit ahead of a Sunday newspaper exposé

painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture (DavidM), Friday, 15 May 2015 11:43 (six years ago) link

this map shows the constituencies (in pink) where the number of people registered to vote who didn't was larger than the wining party.

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/didnotvote-800x480.jpg

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 15 May 2015 16:24 (six years ago) link

look at all the red that's left

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 15 May 2015 16:26 (six years ago) link

i guess Labour was too left wing for all those constituencies

☂ (Noodle Vague), Friday, 15 May 2015 16:35 (six years ago) link

How many seats would that give DNV?

i'm not sure it says but here's the article.

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/after-the-election-picking-up-the-pieces/

Acting Crazy (Instrumental) (jed_), Friday, 15 May 2015 16:55 (six years ago) link

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/10007828/David-Cameron-gives-backing-to-15million-Thatcher-museum.html

As fundraising got seriously under way, the project, first revealed by The Sunday Telegraph last week, also received support from leading conservative figures from overseas - including John Howard, the former Australian prime minister, Newt Gingrich, the former speaker of the House of Representatives in the US, Fred Ryan, President Reagan’s chief of staff and Karl Rove, who performed the same role for President George W Bush.

Mr Rove said: “Baroness Thatcher championed freedom around the world and was a strong friend of America in the dangerous days of the Cold War. The Margaret Thatcher Centre will be a timeless tribute to her fighting spirit, unwavering courage, and principled conservative leadership.”

bureau belfast model (LocalGarda), Friday, 15 May 2015 17:01 (six years ago) link

"In or close to Westminster" I did wonder.

Mark G, Friday, 15 May 2015 17:04 (six years ago) link

the Thatcher museum thing is just grisly

NotKnowPotato (stevie), Saturday, 16 May 2015 17:18 (six years ago) link

has there been some development wrt it or are tons of people linking a story from April 2013 without checking the date

pull blart, maul cops (DJ Mencap), Saturday, 16 May 2015 18:22 (six years ago) link

oh yes, I'm probs a victim of that now I think of it - saw someone post a story about Cameron green-lighting £15m for the museum on FB.

NotKnowPotato (stevie), Saturday, 16 May 2015 18:29 (six years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Fucking Osborne. Again. Pointless legislation designed purely to fuck over Labour leadership election, but which will poison the debate for years. He is such a prize cunt it's deeply frustrating even to have to look at this face.

stet, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 09:32 (six years ago) link

Oh wait, this is the wrong thread. What's our rolling pol thread now?

stet, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 09:34 (six years ago) link

Now would be a pretty good time to start one.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 09:37 (six years ago) link

Psychoactive Substances: Rolling UK Politics in The Neo-Con Era

stet, Wednesday, 10 June 2015 09:59 (six years ago)