Please watch the Korean game show "Genius" with me

Link:
http://bxrme.tumblr.com/post/69603754319/the-genius-1-2-subbed

This is great. This is really really great.

So it's a Korean elimination-style reality show (wait wait don't leave) based loosely on a Japanese manga (seriously don't leave please) where each week there's a game. Each contestant receives a "garnet" which can be turned into $$$ (well, ₩₩₩) but only if you win the season. Come in first, you get two "immunity" items (one for you, one for whomever you protect); tie for first, you both get immunity (and nobody picks a protectee). Last place enters a deathmatch with a non-immune player of their choosing.

The catch is, there's no living on an island or running a lemonade stand or whatever other bullshit. The game of the week is the entire goddamn point, and it's pure gameyness.

In the first episode: everyone (13 players) receives 9 cards, with numbers from 1-3 on them. (same card pack for everyone: 333222111). The goal is to get the most "wins" in 1-on-1 war-style battles. Most wins is immune. If you have leftover cards, you automatically get 0 points. (one person is guaranteed to get 0 points, because 13*9 = odd number of cards). You can trade cards, give cards away, keep cards, whatever. you just need to play them all and try to get as many wins as possible in 90 minutes.

Goddamnit it's so good. I already watched episode 1. Gonna hold off on ep 2 until at least ONE OTHER FUCKING HUMAN is watching it with me. I HAD SO MANY THOUGHTS WHILE WATCHING THIS.

I have so many thoughts about this show! mostly good.

It's really great to see a bunch of fairly smart people get together for a few hours a week and try to out-game-theory each other. Most of the main matches are wildly entertaining. There are some times, however, where they either make the game way too confusing or they don't explain it well enough and I just sit there confused for the whole hour. Or the game is wildly easy to figure out, so everyone's just going through the motions. Also, the two-person matches are for the most part reeeeeeeally boring.

It's well worth it, though, mostly because the players that make it to the later stages of the game are very dynamic.

Ooh, can't wait to watch this.

also, helped so much to watch a youtube beforehand about the Korean older brother/older sister-style nicknaming conventions. otherwise i would've been very confused as to why all their names were Hyung or Oppa etc

damn, i had no idea what that was about. what is it?

this show is off the chain! i love that jinho is on it because i was already aware of him from following starcraft.

hyung is like an affectionate term of respect from a male towards an older male. oppa is the same, except towards an older male from a female, iirc.

and in the same way, females are called unni (by younger females) and nuna (by younger males.

still never managed to look up what sunbae meant, though, ha. somewhat inferable, i guess?

Started last night, up to episode 10 now - it is kind of great, especially episodes 8 and 9. Having a slight bit of difficulty following Confined Scamming Horse Race, but it's quite the episode title, innit?

That said: the incidental music choices are terrible and I kind of don't ever want to watch tactical Yutnori again.

yeah, tactical yutnori suuuucks, indian poker is the best death match game. the music didn't bother me at all. anyone know who did that electronic version of clair de lune they've used a few times? it's on the tip of my tongue...

Just watched the first ep, hooked. Thanks for this.

the only good 1v1 game is the new one in the finals. abundance & famine / catch the burglar easily the worst main match games.

in terms of watching them on a tv show, at least.

Will, where are you up to with this now?

Just half way through scamming horse race ep.

I struggled understanding what was happening in the election one, perhaps just tired, but they're still really entertaining. It helps that the people involved are very watchable.

haha this sounds amazing

this is amazing

Bit disappointed by how it sort of tailed off at the end of series 1, but oh my gosh the first episode of series 2. Main game is so good I want to play it for real, and then the deathmatch has actual proper tension in it and there isn't even a sniff of tactical yutnori.

Albeit they somehow find a way to loop that effing Moby song for even longer than usual.

duuude, the double-crossing in this show is legendary. no spoilers but S2E6 is just...

is the moby song the one that usually starts playing whenever the wheelers and dealers' schemes come to light and spring into action? b/c i think that one serves its purpose pretty adequately

Just finished episode 3, aka my first episode w/ tactical yutnori. goddamn is it hard to wrap my head around. helluva finish tho.

That first indian poker game, wow.

Games I managed to understand so far:
Scamming horse racing
Zombie
Open, Pass (my fave so far)

Games that I struggled a bit with
1.2.3
Abundance and Famine

Games I really couldn't follow
Election
Catch the Burglar (the idea was simple, but I couldn't understand how they were playing it until the end)

love this! Thank you.

have pointed TV friends who are involved with the Only Connect sort of game show at it, so blame me if we're watching Margaret from the Apprentice play tactical yutnori with/against Jimmy Carr this time next year.

i maybe have zoned out during the rules, but yeah, i had no idea what was going on in 'abundance and famine.'

the winning play in 'open, pass' was my favorite moment in the show up to that point, man that was totally surprising and awesome.

abundance and famine was pretty dull w/o a big double-cross, it seemed like cha totally sucked the air out of it by making sure he collected all the tickets and stuff. HERE IS HOW IT WORKED VERY DULL SPOILERS I GUESS.

the strategy was kind of a brute-force one based on how the three-man team would run out of tickets quicker

-- in round one the nine-man team played 4 tickets to abundance, 2 to famine.
--whatever the three-man team did, they could never get an equal or greater amount of bread.
--if they play three or more in abundance, no one gets anything; if they play 2, the big team leads 4-2; if they play 1, 4-1; 0, 4-0
--likewise in famine 2 or more results in nothing; one gives the nine-man team a lead

--if the smaller team had played the five tickets it required to ensure a draw, the larger team would have repeated 4-2 for two more rounds. the smaller team would have run out of tickets in round three.

--instead they played ... 1 and 3? so the nine-man team had someone with four tickets, i.e. a clear lead.
--at which point they switch to playing 6 in abundance, 3 in famine for each remaining round, i.e., anything the other team does can only mean no one gets any tickets
--(which is what happened)
-- meaning the big team ends with a winner and there's a huge tie for last place, which means they pick their loser

--right?

now someone explain to me why they were singing this at sangmin

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kex4e45APD4

i just thought the abundance v famine rules were glossed over by the show. the entire concept of the tickets was wildly underexplained. catch the burglar was just silly because the strategy was obvious from the outset and it was strange to not see the losing players understand what was happening until they were already in an impossible position. made for really boring tv.

open/pass, zombie, election, 5:5 games were the best. the scamming horse races were pretty fun too. in terms of character arcs, sunggyu >>>>>>>

have pointed TV friends who are involved with the Only Connect sort of game show at it, so blame me if we're watching Margaret from the Apprentice play tactical yutnori with/against Jimmy Carr this time next year.

haha in fact it was OC alumni who turned me onto this in the first place!

ha! I sent it to the question editor, who i am pretty sure will love it (if he hasn't seen it before) - he loves puzzles/rule-driven fun and spent a long time writing a doctorate under Diego Gambetta, sociologist of reputation/trust systems in the mafia.

now someone explain to me why they were singing this at sangmin

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kex4e45APD4

― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Monday, January 19, 2015 8:29 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

because sang min was in roo'ra!

oops

gotta say, he looks way better these days

so yeah, i'm totally into this

figured out what that version of clair de lune was, with intersting bonus fan video: http://youtu.be/dFsTOm7sWvA

gd looking at player wikis and spoiling the winner :(

i almost fell for that too

i learnt who the winner was but idk, i kind of enjoy knowing who to watch. if i knew when my other favourites were going to fall out i'd be sadder

zombie game: was kind of hoping someone else would be dicking people over for a change, kind of sad about that

http://blog.korea.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/kokiri-Yutpoints.png

zombie game: was kind of hoping someone else would be dicking people over for a change, kind of sad about that

― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Tuesday, January 20, 2015 11:49 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

did you see the horse race ep yet?

nah i'm only allowing myself one a night. i v much am hoping yell0w pulls off some kind of heel turn shortly

So that's S2E2 watched and oof, this really is getting brutal. In the good way.

Jinho's very fond of grabbing people's wrists, isn't he?

if nothing else i'm forever grateful to have been introduced to "the angel who lost wings" and its many live performances available on youtube

i actually screamed at one of the players (no spoilers; but you'll know who i mean if you saw it) around the 23 minute mark of "Open, Pass." WHAT A STUPID PERSON YOU ARE, PLAYER AT THE 23 MINUTE MARK

there is not enough scamming happening in this scamming horse race

no, wait, i think there is

ha, yep there is

nah idk there kind of wasn't!! tho i did enjoy mensa and starcraft playing to type by figuring out who must have lied, and then totally botching the chance to develop a strategy based on who to tell

great episode there. delicious combination of wilyness & incompetence by virtually everyone.

btw i think we should talk about our strategies... for example my strategy which would've won week 1 (for what that's worth: aka nothing)

i find one person who wants to win the week, i say "here's what we'll do: i will win 1, and you will win 8." i trade two 3's for two of their 1's. we play one match: my last 3 vs their last 1. i have remaining (11111222) and they have (22233333). They proceed to beat me 8 times. They win, get immunity, grant me immunity with their second wings.

alternatively, play dumb & get 4 wins each and cast your eyes down when the deathmatcher is picking someone, because week 1. but still

i find one person who wants to win the week, i say "here's what we'll do: i will win 1, and you will win 8." i trade two 3's for two of their 1's. we play one match: my last 3 vs their last 1. i have remaining (11111222) and they have (22233333). They proceed to beat me 8 times. They win, get immunity, grant me immunity with their second wings.

i mean, that was Jinho and Junseok's strategy, right? they just didn't go through with it for whatever reason

i thought they only planned to go 6-3 for some weird reason?

If you have the lowest win count then you're automatically in the death match (and can't get immunity). IIRC they wanted to have a safety net?

but the person who wasn't able to play all their cards went in automatically, ahead of the person with the lowest total, right?

due to the odd number of cards tho, someone is guaranteed to get 0 points; 1 point = not deathmatch

oh yeah, i forgot about that

oops xp yeah. and xp again.

i actually screamed at one of the players (no spoilers; but you'll know who i mean if you saw it) around the 23 minute mark of "Open, Pass." WHAT A STUPID PERSON YOU ARE, PLAYER AT THE 23 MINUTE MARK

― Francis Björk Morgan (Will M.), Wednesday, January 21, 2015 3:44 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i did the same thing and then thought "this is probably what he was talking about in that thread"

i was so disappointed in PERSON

otoh minute 44 ("YES!") was great

holy fuck if its what i think you are talking about IT WAS A STRATEGY I WONDERED ABOUT but could not determine if it was valid b/c not enough pixels on my screen. SO AWESOME.

goddamn it i run a pub quiz night and it is taking a lot of my willpower to not just turn an entire round into terrible delicious game theory nightmares for people who just want to answer questions like "which montreal canadien scored the most times" or whatever

noooooo i am talking just about a single moment of triumph

the moment will m. is talking about was the best moment on the show up to that point

damn, Hong is such a likeable fellow isn't he.

goddamn it i run a pub quiz night and it is taking a lot of my willpower to not just turn an entire round into terrible delicious game theory nightmares for people who just want to answer questions like "which montreal canadien scored the most times" or whatever

keep the rounds straight but add in a marking meta-game - teams mark each others papers, they can lie, ask for than one team to mark them, it's open to challenges, idk nail the details and CAUSE CHAOS

i wish i could try some of those snacks they always eat before the game starts

it says a lot about the show's budget that they're eating those gross fishcake-on-a-stick things

none of the foods are recognizable to me, but i'm convinced they are all good

coming to think of Sangmin as a Korean Gary Barlow.

I'm six episodes in and enjoying this, but I kinda want to fast-forward through every death match.

i'm surprised anyone makes it through the series without skipping the death matches. ironically, episode six is probably the only one worth watching

Just finished watching confined scamming horse race, hilarious episode. Death match, yeah, was a bit of a drag.

watched the first series and I adore it, sangmin and his outfits most of all

they were better in the 90s

i seriously can't stop listening to this song

i did check out roo'ra and was most taken with this incredibly 90s ensemble:

http://www.oocities.org/tokyo/bay/5894/3feature03.jpg

the only time I 'beat' the contestants to a solid solution was with the 5:5 game, although not knowing how difficult the character limit is makes it a little different. the open/pass discovery was excellent though.

i think sangmin looks genuinely cool tbh

i loved his "we played to seven million people! in LA!" to sunggyu

i just got through the first few episodes of the second season - no complaints other than the noticeable lack of Sunggyu. His story arc + relationship with Sangmin was just as much fun to watch as the Jinho AHA! moments. Also, Jinho seems way less fun so far. Good games, though!

xp of course, I didn't mean to sound insincere regardless of the dated 90s pic. massive kudos to will m for this

If you can watch S2E1 and not have Sangmin as your favourite I don't know what's wrong with you tbh.

S2E3 watched last night and, well, bit of a drudge, occasional bits of Junghyun-related awesomeness notwithstanding. If you were missing tactical yutnori, just wait til you get a half-hour game of Hap, Gyul!

at least you can play along with hap gyul! especially after the first season finale where a pretty good strategy for figuring out when to call gyul is presented

How high profile are the people on the show in Korea? Are they akin to the dreck that washes ashore on Celebrity Apprentice/Big Brother/etc., or are they more famous and relevant than that?

i don't think their goal was to gather as much celebrity as possible but assemble a group of interesting people with a wide array of talents that may make them "good" at the game as the ep 1 intro details

Infinite is a big deal and i think A Pink is too? gura seems to be a pretty big personality

by wide array of talents i just mean they picked them from different areas -- poker, pool, gaming, but year def emphasis on entertainment

How high profile are the people on the show in Korea? Are they akin to the dreck that washes ashore on Celebrity Apprentice/Big Brother/etc., or are they more famous and relevant than that?

― polyphonic, Friday, January 23, 2015 12:59 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i know at least lim yo hwan in S2 is very famous in korea, he's the most famous starcraft player of all time in a country that watches the game on major network TV. i'm assuming the people they refer to as "broadcasters" are quite well known as well.

Finished Season 1, excellent is all I can say.

A bit apprehensive about S2 though, it has a lot to live up to. I think I'll take a break from it and come back at a later date.

Thanks for sharing this though Will

glad to have someone to watch it with guys :)

Watched the first ep last night and absolutely loved it, thanks a lot Will. The guy being bought with his own garnet was :-O

knew the winner of S1 and i was still going nuts thru the last ep

hap gyul is pretty similar to a tile game i played once but i can't remember the name

and ofc there was the dixit-like death match game they only did once in S1

quattro was a bit like phase 10

sangmin's outfits go downhill after episode four or so, sadly

i was hoping it was a passing thing but he's been on this awful blazer, t shirt, slacks combo for two episodes now

Man, I have blasted through these. Just finished Constrained Scamming Horse Race and the use of the Our Tune music when Sunggyu and Sangmin were swapping letters and garnets had me on the floor.

S2E6 and S2E7. Wowwwwww.

::DRUDGE SIRENS::

http://bxrme.tumblr.com/post/98041031323/the-genius-3-subbed

bwahaha. still on the first series, here

oh man what timing

i wasn't sure about woof's claim that sangmin was a korean gary barlow but his expressions of victory in (episode) are actually making me think korean andy partridge

lol. no. alan partridge.

oh man, the most touching Sunggyu/Sangmin reunion in season 2! looking back on it, the season 1 cast seems/seemed much more friendly with each other/happy to be be in each other's company.

season 2 cast is the best cast. the drop off in terms of likability and excitement generated by the cast in season 3 is really disappointing, the games are better, though.

my gf is totally obsessed with this show now, i just rewatched season 2 episode 6 with her and that is seriously one of the best episodes of TV ever, so many laughs, so many totally surprising moments.

Just watched the first ep of season 2, and all I can say is "phew"

so last year there was a korean drama adaptation of 'liar game,' the manga which genius is sort of lifted from, except the unique twist the korean adaptation brings is that the liar game now takes place in the context of a reality tv show ~

Saturday morning has become GENIUS morning for me, but avoiding thread now most are deep in seasons two and three. it's obv great tho.

i applaud your discipline

amongst many other things, it's a great palette cleanser for the weekend.

palate... :|

I'm sitll in season 1! on 9 now. since i have to read it, i watch it a lot slower than other tv

Finished ep 3 of season 2 last night. So far a great season.

Yeah, after the first ep I had thought the same as Sangmin, that they were a weaker set of contestants. But going into ep 6 I realise that was totally wrong.

Man, S2 Ep 6... The last 20 minutes were incredible.

i just rewatched season 2 episode 6 with her and that is seriously one of the best episodes of TV ever

qft

The e6/e7 double is amazing.

How high profile are the people on the show in Korea?

― polyphonic, Friday, January 23, 2015 9:59 AM (1 week ago)

This S2 guy's had a few youtube views:
https://theyaelchronicles.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/gangnam-elevator-awesomeness.jpeg

I'm following Fizzles idea, watching one every weekend. It's torture through the week (already) but gives me something to look forward to.

want to work a shout of "I'M GETTING GOOSEBUMPS" into more daily situations.

“MELTDOWN”

FIGHTING!

"(Female contestant) is scary"
"Yes, she's really scary"

I watched the end of Season 1 last night... tough to watch 2 of my favourite competitors go at it at the end!

Incredibly, series 2 just keeps getting better.

Finished season 2 recently. fun main matches, great final, but really for the most part it really seems like post e7 the only people left were the winner and a bunch of scrubs, and you could kind of tell who production wanted to win the thing. i mean, no knock on the winner's game, it was excellent! but it is funny, looking at the first episode of season 3, that they're taking explicit measures to make sure no one thinks anything is rigged. regardless, i'll still take season 1, which was uber-competitive/unpredictable all the way to the final, overall.

that episode 6/7 run, though. so compelling!

S3E10 was so fuckin tragic... the culmination of an uncomfortable trend throughout season 3. didn't really expect this show to have me thinkin bout gender issues

didn't really expect this show to have me thinkin bout gender issues

I'm still in mid of S2 but welcome to Korea!

Gura from S1 has faced infamy for his misogynist views, and there was a pretty shitty S1 exchange between Sangmin & Sunggyu with Eunji about her age (she's over 30 omg!) that made me start rooting against Sunggyu.

I was quite happy that S2 followed the narrative tbh because hyung is my favourite.

Up to e8 in s3 and outside of the Dongmin/Hyunmin strategy I'm still finding it really entertaining. Obviously Dongmin isn't a patch on Sangmin or Jinho but in e7 when he realises he's been shut out completely...

I'm disappointed that two women seem to get so far in the show by giggling and doing whatever they're told tbh after the excellence of Kyungran in s1, although Ahyoung's inability to be subtle (or, it seems, stand on her feet) provides some welcome comic relief plus she provides the Sangmin facial expressions.

The games are a lot better this series though, Mining Game in particular. Twelve Janggi is the best death match of the whole run, for sure.

This show really made me want to get into other Korean tv shows. Loved this bit from Running Man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTQWmlejLv4

I just randomly came upon the Skrillex & The Doors tune and recognised it from the show, had no idea it was a Doors mix

Finally finished s3 last night, it was a good run. Thank you for posting this. Jinjja!

there's been a hole in my life since i finished this

is season 2 and 3 on youtube?

only on daily motion afaik, linked in the tumblr posted at the top of the thread

I found them on another site fwiw:

s2 http://kshowonline.com/kshow/2214-%5Bengsub%5D-the-genius-s2-full
s3 http://kshowonline.com/kshow/2478-%5Bengsub%5D-the-genius-s3-ep.1

Running Man is good, at least it was for a few years.. I stopped watching after a while, it's on episode x hundred something now and most people seem to agree it's rarely that great anymore. Of course the games are simpler and sometimes very silly and sometimes mostly ignored in the pursuit of funny moments. Got a pretty big following online of people not usually into the Korean wave thing.

For that kind of improv theater-like game show the team behind RM did another earlier variety show called 'Family Outing' which was even less about games - the regular members + guest(s) took over some old people's countryside home, did farm work, animal care, whatever and mostly just mucked about, made dinner and created magic. Then they did some competitive games but, whatever. Seriously the chemistry was too good. All eps subbed.

OSEN

Solo 'The Genius', and comes with a season 4! "Broadcasting firm"
Articles, enter 01/03/2015 11:05 a.m. original article Comments 393

[OSEN = Hyun-min Park Reporter] tvN 'The Genius' is back with a fourth season.

According to the official broadcast of tvN 'The Genius' Season 4 dwaetgo established internally, yet the early planning stages. Though not determine the details of issues, including the cast, casting, before 'The Genius' jeongjongyeon PD is who will be directing the season leading the program again.

tvN officials on the first day OSEN "is" The Genius "Season 4 is broadcasting this year broadcast time said specific things such as programmatically apply whether the change in some way yet to be determined," he said.

"The Genius" season 1 "The Genius: Rules of the Game 'Season 2' The Genius: Rule Breaker 'Season 3: Perspective' The Genius Black Garnet 'and from the audience and viewers through a perforated heel against all of the issues with love received.

Before 'The Genius' is properly transformed a former professional gamer who was Hong Jin-ho to 'broadcast' (?) Sikimyeo dwaeteumyeo a variety of entertainment programs starring Jang Dong-Min beachhead, Lee Sang-min, Shin Ah Young, choejeongmun, Kim Pung, Boxer, etc. ilgwonae the 'rediscovery' of the many performers said was the topic in every season.

On the other hand, various professional reality show wage psychological warfare to be the last one of the challenger, representing the group through the game 'The Genius' is the last in April 2013 to 0.4% dwaeteumyeo first broadcast (Nielsen Korea, Cable standard), since the season 3 of 8 times (November 19, 2014), and 1.88% recorded at the time the ratings last season broke the highest rating.

g✧✧✧@o✧✧✧.c✧.k✧

<Picture> tvN offer

[Facebook shortcut] [Download Baseball Scouting Report App] [magic glass world of fun & Fun] [Copyright ⓒ OSEN prohibit unauthorized copying and redistribution;

nice

haha those links at the end

I had to sign up to this forum because this is one of the only places online where people are talking about The Genius and how damn amazing it is.

I love everything about it. The format, the contestants, how it promotes intelligence and wits over stupidity and negativity, the editing, and I even like the music, that Moby track is perfect.

It's my aim to try and get this show re-made in the UK. I have contacts in TV but mainly comedy producers, however I'm going to try and see what I can do. I already have a UK cast in mind for the show!

I got a bit discouraged from my "let's make uk genius" rush when I found out that Fremantle are making French and Dutch versions - I thought they might have snagged the rights for here as well ( but I don't know how these things work tbh)

I suspect it will be Fremantle who make it if it does indeed come to the UK.

just don't let any of the contestants know it's based on another show, the joy is watching people discover these insane fucking games

(and believing you're smarter than them)

I'm about to watch the final of S2, well later tonight anyway.

SPOILERS AHEAD!

So I've had mixed feelings about this season, most certainly loving most of the games. But some of the contestants have been frustrating, it's like some of them don't even care or never bothered with a strategy. Sangmin has been great though, motivated enough to find one way or another to win.

The last couple of episodes were better, with the guests. And the death matches for once were awesome.

The whole token of immortality was a bit of a let down wasn't it. Was expecting more twists to it.

Look forward to S3 when it drops

http://bxrme.tumblr.com/post/98041031323/the-genius-3-subbed

SWEET!

This show is so great. I'm avoiding reading this thread until I've finished season 3 (I cover my eyes during flash-forward bits too) but this season might be my favourite so far.

Whoever edits this show deserves major applause. It does a great job of making clear what strategies people are employing and what the pivotal moments were, as well as holding back some big reveals for towards the end.

Best person on the show is obviously the unflappable and inscrutable dealer nuna.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFhAosvUsAAKR_v.jpg

Premiering in June. Fansubs can't come fast enough!

all praise to Bumdidlyumptious

I haven't tried it out yet but some people are excited about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_Scene_%28South_Korean_TV_series%29

"At the start of the game, the players (both recurring cast members and guests) are introduced to the "Crime Scene", which is a mockup of a murder scene replicated on a stage area, and are tasked with figuring out who the murderer is. Upon discovering the crime scene, the players are given the "case briefing", which includes a summary of events that occurred before the murder and a list of the possible suspects. Immediately afterwards, each player chooses a suspect to roleplay as for the remainder of the game. The players are then given more detailed information about the suspect they are respectively portraying, including the suspect's personality, whereabouts during the crime, relationship to the other suspects, and (in the case of the murderer) evidence that can be used against them. The rest of the investigation is split up into several segments:"

Well, I'm pumped

http://i.imgur.com/9LJrLKV.jpg

Cool, but not sure I need to see Jinho yet again. On the plus side, more Hyunmin. He was my favourite last season.

The gender imbalance is getting worse every season.

Cool, but not sure I need to see Jinho yet again.

gtfo

Only because he and Sangmin have been on so much already. It will definitely be interesting to see a lot of strong and experienced players in the same game.

I'm curious how Dongmin will do. He's obviously very good, but inconsistent - he was lucky as hell to have pulled off that elimination victory.

The gender imbalance is getting worse every season.

Yeah. Unfortunate. I mean, what did Junseok or Kyunghoon do to deserve to be brought back? Yooyoung or Yeonjoo would've fit fine in the cast. Or Ahyoung. Or Yuram. Or even Dahye.

https://www.facebook.com/tvnthegenius/photos_stream

S4 posters. Ep 1 broadcasts on Saturday.

FIGHTING!

Just spotted that the red letters spell FAREWELL

Season 4 premiered tonight... how long does it take to get fansubbed?

https://twitter.com/bumdidlyump/status/615013592488783872

It's up!

Great, chaotic first episode. I loved Jinho's throwing his notebook, "Ah, there are too many weird people in season 4!"

I rip from dailymotion onto mp4 so I can watch it on a bigger screen, it's waiting for me to watch tonight.

The three winners in the 'poster shoot' clip are just adorable.

Just semi-spoiled myself by watching the 'crazy bastard' BTS and man, SANGMIN LOOK TO CAMERA is enough to make me fall head over heels with this show AGAIN.

SPOILERS

Sangmin's attempt to vindicate himself at the end is great. Almost convincing. I guess he was looking ahead to the garnet round and thinking that he needed to put himself ahead.

Jungmoon was impressively cool in getting rid of the convict card. That whole final play is interesting to rewatch.

I guess there was no rule that you can't be holding two cards at once. I think at the end Sangmin has two and Kyunghoon has zero.

why are they all drinking the cocktails from vinyl??

DO NOT WATCH UNTIL YOU HAVE SEEN THE EP

https://youtu.be/_fndNoX1BcU

Seriously, that look to camera. Just another reason to love the show.

EPISODE 2 SPOILERS

Dongmin is apparently incredible at Tactical Yutnori. He read like every play.

What's the deal with Kyunghoon? Is this his real personality or was he maybe planted there to stir shit up? The whole dog thing was creepy.

This was a shocking elimination. Drawing Yutnori and then having to work against Dongmin? Rather unlucky, I'd think.

Season has been incredible thus far. Everybody is pulling weight - even Lawyer Yoonsun made the most of her limited screentime! It's difficult to see anyone go. Except Kyunghoon. Dude is trying to be Sunggyu but NO ONE CAN BE SUNGGYU BUT SUNGGYU

I get the impression Yoonsun is a bit stifled at the moment by other strong personalities. Normally she would be the centre of an alliance. She did play this match well, at least as well as either of the teams. Both teams were probably larger than made sense.

It was never revealed how Jinho was able to discern the differences between the monsters was it?

According to him, he wasn't, right? It was just a fluke draw.

:-(

Yeah. Great episode, though!

Amazing episode. How did he guess she was lying?

Junseok showed some chops in this one too.

amazing episode of television with the WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME

Kinda perfect though. Sangmin is so good, except somehow Kyunghoon keeps tripping him up, even failing to be the pushover deathmatch opponent everyone thought he was supposed to be.

oh 100%. it's just ... it's still so sad. dude's entire existence seemed to be pulling sneaky shit on people and somehow staying on their good side. it makes him perfect tv.

MISS YOU BOO

Under the table was incredible.

Somehow coming round to the idea this is all an elaborate con trick by Kyunghoon, reinforced by the "oh I played the wrong card" turning point in Betting RPS. Let's also not forget Sangmin talking to Jinho at the end of Round 1 was interrupted by Kyunghoon which may have led to him losing track of time.

Under the table God!

um this is the best show I have ever seen

on season 3 and basically the ability to have such a wonderful and interesting crew makes this so exceptional

Damn this season! There's no one who it isn't sad to see eliminated.

omg what an amazing end to gw10

huh?

Interesting episode. Jungmoon's strategy to gain trust was bold, and sort of irresistable if you actually know Pi by memory, but I don't think it was worth it. Giving the sequence away in exchange for a thin hope at getting the final King vote and not getting caught in the process was too risky.

I generally agree, but want to play devil's advocate for a bit. Say you know pi up to a high number of digits, and you need to get this information to a certain minority. What's the best case scenario? You have everything memorized, and can plan out each round in your head, and tell your people what to do based on that without writing anything down. This, however, seems almost impossible for anyone to pull off. You'd need to write everything down, which would be very difficult to do in the circumstances without someone from the majority taking notice and outing you as a rebel.

As such, Jungmoon had to decide either to have everybody know the information or just keep it totally to herself for the remainder of the game. And I wouldn't begrudge her of the way she leaned on that decision. Now, of course, her acting afterwards certainly had its faults, but I could see why she ultimately went down that path.

But knowing the pattern benefits the loyalists a lot more than the rebels. The rebels can't plan any mischief if everyone knows the sequence. As soon as a rebel chooses something other than the lowest option given the sequence, they'll be caught.

Maybe it's a question of how many of the digits to reveal. If she'd revealed say 40, that could have been enough to make her a convincing loyalist while also not restricting her own team for more than the first 10 turns. And that would be valuable on its own whether or not she was voted King, since it would give her cover to raise the numbers later on without being suspected. Having revealed ~70, and with Yooyhun catching suspicion early, Yooyhun was put in a hard position.

One thing that bugged me about this game is that the rebels have more to lose from losing. They get an additional garnet if they win, but that isn't enough to offset the higher chance of going to a death match if they lose. On the loyalist side, the risk of being picked for the death match is a lot more spread out. The rebels also have a harder game to play. I'm not sure if the odds are against them, but they definitely have less room to coast.

Surprisingly great episode!

This song tho...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZa4yre0uEk

That was a fun episode. I'd kinda like to see Dongmin eliminated soon, though, just to shake things up. Maybe force Jinho to actually do stuff.

this has been going crazy heavy on the eleventh hour reversals yesterday

jinho is really hanging back, though, yeah

'yesterday' should read 'lately'

Titty god!

yeah what is that about

Man, neither player made a single mistake in the death match. They both got every picture that had already been uncovered. Unlucky for Jungmoon that Kyunghoon had three of the same picture in his closing stretch.

Could not be happier to be so wrong about K-Hound

Finally caught up and yeah, Kyunghoon has been mvp this season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3DuTfevZ_0

Awwww. Dongmin's relationship with her has been the other high point of the season.

xps kyunghoon told someone on a messagedboard to "go suck his mum's titties", in reaction to them not believing him when he said he was going to appear on the genius

my favourite nickname and subtitle explanation was at the finale of season 3
when hweejong came out (at the same time as yongseok aka 'what! god"), it read 'nicknamed "nam mimi" because "mi mi mi mi mi"'

This is an interesting top 5. All of them seem like they have a shot.

I think Junseok's days are numbered.

What would make for the best television imo would be for Kyunghoon to win, and Hyunmin to eliminate Dongmin.

<3 Sangmin 4eva

Ahyoung's dealer impression is great:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHBg_Uon7ns

Probably the weakest guy went, kind of feel like he hasn't had any decent alliances this season.

Having Sangmin back for the week just shows how much he lights up The Genius, <3 <3 <3

hard not to root for the titty god this season
been bossing his death matches too

Yeah, need a gif of him at the start of ep 4 (?) when he said "well if you take me to the death match I'll just have to beat you in that as well."

OMG!

What would make for the best television imo would be for Kyunghoon to win, and Hyunmin to eliminate Dongmin.

I take that back, there is a better scenario. Kyunghoon has to be 3/3 king-slayer.

Final Final up, trying very hard not to spoil myself before I can watch it tonight.

This really has been an amazing season though, and the winning play last week was one of the highpoints. Playing dumb has worked a treat.

Can't see past Dongmin to win if I'm honest, he's been outstanding at Death Matches.

got no free time till thursday to watch the final
but yeh, been an amazing season, looking fwd to seeing the guests come back and what challenges they decide for for the final
dongmin has been outstanding at death matches, but then so has kyunghoon, should be awesome anyway

I think my favourite thing in the series has been from week (? - the one when they brought friends in for the first time) and someone said "he's like this mad Genius otaku, this will be the point when he looks at the camera and they play "Extreme Ways". Will you play it just for him?" Then the editors did just that.

Kyunghoon watching the 12 Janggi match was great, he saw the winning move pretty much the second it was made.

Final was great; not perfect, but what is?

Worst part is the way everyone was talking at the end - I'll be amazed if there's another season after this.

Bandage hyung did finish with "I will see you next time," so who knows?

Dongmin was crazy good all season, not surprised he took it.

^ Uh, sorry, SPOILER WARNING ABOVE? ^

i liked the final, second game was really fun

someone said "he's like this mad Genius otaku, this will be the point when he looks at the camera and they play "Extreme Ways". Will you play it just for him?" Then the editors did just that.

yessss, this was amazing

What was the rule for Round 8 of the second game, where all the hints were 1 or 2 but the final answer was 3?

This is funny (maybe old news?) but both Kyunghoon and Youhyun both went to University of Illinois, here are two long English interviews with them:

http://geniuscast.podbean.com/e/kim-kyunghoon-interview/
http://geniuscast.podbean.com/e/youhyun-dennis-kim-interview/

Bilingual video interview with Youhyun:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6cu8xiX37k

IIRC Ahyoung and Junseok went to Harvard, would be nice to find some English interviews with them.

http://i.imgur.com/2dLOFkj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LBtPbjg.png
http://i.imgur.com/t1BYgmc.jpg

So, looks like Society Game might be the next thing to fill this niche? Bumdidlyumptious getting excited about it and hinting it is.

The last time I re-read this thread I spent the next hour re-watching S2 Eps 6-7 and fighting the urge to do it again.

Yeah, I've watched S2E6 a few times. That must be the most vicious episode/season of this show.

of any show! that was a ruthless triple-cross!

Society Game looks like a fairly conventional Survivor-type deal. I doubt that it's going to replace The Genius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uASN8KacCgs

Well, my interest is sufficiently piqued. Looking forward to seeing what carries more weight - the Survivor-style isolated-society social game, or the more Genius-style machinations of electing a leader and the challenges

yep, looks good to me

I'll definitely check it out. I've been enjoying rewatching Genius episodes since this thread was bumped a couple weeks ago. One that I really enjoyed is S1E4, the zombie game. The joint victory is pretty satisfying, combining a cool solution with some last-second duplicity.

I missed this upload of Bumdi's. An unedited hour of Tactical Yutnori, if anyone needs a Sangmin fix.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJCqT6cBzJI

So, Society Game then.

Looking forward to seeing what carries more weight - the Survivor-style isolated-society social game, or the more Genius-style machinations of electing a leader and the challenges

Definitely seems to be the latter.

This was a weird episode in that it had all the setup in it so felt unduly long, but the machinations start very early and there is definite gaming happening from the start. The game within a game (within a game) format of the challenge looks like it'll keep it fresh and avoid the Death By Tactical Yutnori curse - my guess is that the remaining shows will be half society manipulation, half challenge.

Sanggook seems to have the best handle on things so far but I suspect he could end up being Dongmin-like in trying to game the whole thing. My tips are for MJ and Asol to be the winners with Macho and Donghwan most likely to do a Sangmin.

As ever, more about strategy and results and spoilers once other people have seen it.

My initial concern/confusion - what's stopping the Madong leader + 2 elites from simply riding it out to the end, other than the elite's doubt as to those three's ability to win the final challenge? Am I missing something? It'd be shocking if they compromised such a dominating position.

Sanggook seems to have the best handle on things so far but I suspect he could end up being Dongmin-like in trying to game the whole thing.

Sure seems that way, but I'd have to imagine it's tough to play the Dongmin game when you're, y'know, not Dongmin.

Fun episode otherwise! Wanted to see more MJ in the challenge, obv, but yeah she seems like she'll be around a long time so there should be plenty of opportunities.

Second episode hums along. Continue to love the *here's what ACTUALLY happened* rewinds + beat drops. Starting to be worried about production being somewhat spoiler-y with the voiceover at the end, as the eliminated player leaves.

Bumdi's hyped up episode 3 on twitter - seems as if it's about time for Genius fans who haven't hopped on board to get caught up!

i've been diggin it, although i'm incredibly frustrated by one teams' choices so far... it's like they WANT to lose every challenge.

So, this turned out to be really great in the end. I'm guessing some people got off the bus because Bumdi's health issues meant the eps weren't reliably available but the final two eps, and specifically the politics around the final three in one of the societies, was up there with Genius S2.

I'm sure it'll be back, and the voice-over at the end seemed to confirm it. I can't wait.

The Genius was a great thing, hope it comes back.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGRP0maV0AAtHFv.jpg:large

Kwon Minsuk (MMA), Kim Kwangjin (Politician), Kim Heegil (Fitness Model), Park Kwangjae (Former Basketball Player)

— Bumdidlyumptious (@Bumdidlyump) August 3, 2017

Park Hyunsuk (Graduate Student), Son Taeho (Unknown Profession), Alpha Go (Turkish Korea Correspondent), Yuri (Fashion Model)

— Bumdidlyumptious (@Bumdidlyump) August 3, 2017

Lee Junseok (Businessman and The Genius Player), Lee Chunsoo (Former Football Player), Jang Dongmin (Comedian), Cho Junho (Judo)

— Bumdidlyumptious (@Bumdidlyump) August 3, 2017

Julien Kang (Actor), Hak Jin (Actor/Former Volleyball Player), Go Woori (Former Rainbow Member), Goo Saebom (Announcer), Kim Haneul (Lawyer)

— Bumdidlyumptious (@Bumdidlyump) August 3, 2017

MJ Kim (MMA), Yoo Seungok (Fitness Model), Jung Eunah (University Student), Jung Inyoung (Announcer), Kasper (Rapper)

— Bumdidlyumptious (@Bumdidlyump) August 3, 2017

Guess this means it's time for me to finish watching season 1, after taking a break about halfway through and never getting back to it. Hopefully MJ continues to own - the fact that she's in season 2 bodes well on that front, I'd imagine!

(sorry for so many embedded tweets there, oof)

Love MJ but will not spoil the end of S1 for you. So glad to see her back.

I'm not sure what Dongmin or Junseok will add to the procedings but who am I kidding, I'll watch it anyway.

whaaaaaaaat? how can you not be excited about dongmin?!

I suppose I shouldn't say too much about the last season because people haven't finished watching, but I don't see how he will fit into the model of the show despite the role of the guy most like him in the last couple of eps.

Sanggook seems to have the best handle on things so far but I suspect he could end up being Dongmin-like in trying to game the whole thing. My tips are for MJ and Asol to be the winners with Macho and Donghwan most likely to do a Sangmin.

I clearly watched too much of the Genius because after two eps I was largely otm upthread.

i think dongmin has shown himself to be more than a bit more clever than sanggook

True but he ran the gaming aspect from the beginning - remember, he only left really because he withdrew himself as a result of the pressure he'd put himself under. We didn't see his like again until the final few eps.

Haha so for all of my fucking excitement about this show, after season 1, I had a hard time watching season 2 because it was on dailymotion and i kinda lost steam. Welllllllll the subtitler just posted links to all 4 seasons on m3g4-uplode on their twitter so guess who finally started season 2?!?!

(i am told by a friend who burned through all of it years ago, when i originally brought it up, and he warned me that season 2 is the worst because there's some shitty bullying issues -- so now i am additionally watching for that to start lol)

but apparently S3 rules so i will be watching it in pace with my friend who only watched 1-2 so we can comment per episode.

it weirds me out so fucking much that i only know one of these people from outside of this show, and that one guy is in season 2: the dude who dances in the elevator on top of PSY in the gangnam style video.

Yeah, there's one particularly dark episode in season 2. You'll know it when you see it.

I miss this show.

season 3 is soooo good

still haven't seen 3. might watch it for christmas. might watch season 1 tbh.

S3 was probably my favorite too. This show was one of the best things I never would have heard of without this website *wipes tear*

season 3 is good but season 4 is even better - there's more competition and certainly some shocking twists. season 1 is probably still the best and has a certain charm the others never quite manage to have, but also in some ways doesn't quite reach the same levels of complexity in games or schemes as the best moments in 3 and 4. one of my favourite tv shows ever

i def got to the ep in S2 that everyone was down on, and shit honestly i would've been even more of a jerk to the bully-ee, if that makes sense. (i would've never admitted to grabbing the id, and prob planted it somewhere that made it look like someone else used it)

i mean sucks for ihm but then i realize why he's fmaous (hacked a university website to steal a picture of an actress graduating or something?) and i'm like i hope you got double-crossed 42 more times on the way out the door tbrr

Ha, I didn't know any of that.

I'm actually unclear on why stealing the ID wasn't a violation of the rules. I thought they said "no stealing" somewhere upfront.

Though I seem to remember instances of people swiping garnets from each other now and then as well.

I guess it's that if you leave a thing out in the open, then finders keepers applies.

I'm watching the rules again and paying particular attention to the phrasing:
- Two players who wish to trade cards will do so by approaching the dealer's table together
- When ID is presented to the dealer, the dealer will give you the cards
- Both players will reveal their cards and begin trading
- Card trades must be for the same number of cards
- When the trade is complete, the cards will be stored again and the IDs will be returned

They take care (or at least, the subtitler does) to never even say "your" ID. Even at the beginning I thought "there's definitely an opportunity here to give someone your ID or trade with someone to ensure you're working together"

pic.twitter.com/ln5A9lDN0c

— Bumdidlyumptious (@Bumdidlyump) March 13, 2020

loooool. might have to rewatch these as plague viewing.

haaaa

Plague rewatch in place, about 8 into S1 and this is just as incredible as I remember it. Even from a purely televisual point of view, the editing is amazing - the music cues are perfect to drive the drama along and the use of flash forward and back wrongfoots you as a viewer all the time.

great show

I mean I liked Squid Game and everything but it just made me want to rewatch THE GENIUS, so here I go.

ha me too, i rewatched the first ep after watching the first SG ep. Still great.

I rewatched last year, Sangmin in S2 is still some kind of pinnacle of television.

I'm happy I've forgotten all the craziness and can appreciate again.

spoiler ep 1 that Garnet switch is still wow!

also rewatching this. it is the best.

all the old links still work? can someone post them again pls

I had to download the files from a reddit thread

Links also pinned by @Bumdidlyump on Twitter.
But is there a torrent? I hate these fkin download sites.

i couldn't find a torrent when i looked and went to one of the fkn download sites.

Well the foreign remake has finally turned up and one episode down it just reminds me of how much I love this show. Helps that the first game is Eat or Be Eaten, which is one of the best.

Genius Netherlands, all episodes subbed in English on YouTube

Having gone all the way through, it scratches an itch but it's not as well made. There's only one flash forward/back for example and it's kind of throwaway. The immortality ring is absolutely wasted - ok, I'm comparing it to S2 which it was never going to compete with, but such a wasted opportunity.

It's fine, and I'll watch later seasons if there are any, but don't drop everything to watch it.

finally! thanks for the heads up

update for the uk too

https://tbivision.com/2022/12/08/banijay-brings-korean-format-the-genius-game-to-uk-denmark-norway/

the devil's plan is on netflix US, directed by jung jong-yeon who did the genius. i'm an episode and a half in and it seems like its picking up where the genius left off. ridiculously complex but well-balanced rules, flashbacks, a retired starcraft pro, expressionless dealers, its got it all

It feels much more padded, though. What should be one episode takes two.

ooh thanks for the heads up. from the sound of things it seems to be very much genius s5

the uk version is taking contestant applications right now too: https://thegeniusgameuk.com/ i hope it ends up living up to the original

In the second ep of Devil's Plan and it's absolutely Genius S5, even uses the same graphics style while explaining rules. Agree to a point about how stretches out it feels but much like Genius it uses editing remarkably well to create tension and drama where there would normally be none. Not sure I completely understand what the prison mechanic is for.

Yes, there is an application form for the UK one. < wink >

Ha, this thread made me dream last night that I was mining for Garnets in minecraft.

ok, while the devil's plan was not as good as the genius it was still the best new show on a streaming service since idk when.

things it was missing:

-supers that comment on what the players are thinking when they are being cheeky, dumb, sly, etc
-a song that always plays when someone does something badass and shocking that also breaks someone else's heart (yes i miss "extreme ways" by moby)
-better casting. not everyone can be an evil mastermind but we were seriously lacking a dongmin or a sangmin

things it did well [spoilers ahead]:
-living together. it allows more room for a metagame to develop and it deepens relationships
-prison. a comeback mechanic involving sequestering the losers in a dungeon is exactly what you should do with netflix money
-secret out-of-game advantages. si-won and seok-jin figuring out the code in the pieces and what to do with it was absolutely thrilling

watched a few episodes and the games have been a fair bit more complex than the early genius games were right from the start, which has made them compelling even . the prize matches are interesting as an alternative to the elimination matches from the genius, most of which weren't that great, but i think those were still a more interesting way to deal with eliminations since they gave the opportunity for a comeback. on the other hand, not eliminating anyone immediately is also a positive here

oh i forgot to finish a sentence. *compelling even when there aren't dramatic betrayals happening

I'm about 2/3 through and you're right on what it's missing. Extreme Ways (or an equivalent) would improve things massively, although the editing is a dream.

The bullying has been pretty shocking though and two things stand out: the second (? the one with dice and prison and personal and group rules) was pretty horrific, the pile on pushing specific players back continually - and on no stronger reasoning than they played the roles assigned to them in the previous game. The aftermath next game (the one with the numbers) was also terrible with Dong-joo using weirdly domestic violence defensive language - "it's her fault for choosing to trust him so she deserves everything that's coming to her".

So yeah, still great but the changes from Genius make it lesser.

i'm not sure if the incidents you're referring to stood out to me, but there's almost always some bullying-ish stuff that goes on in these shows that i find disturbing. or at least extremely hierarchical behavior based on seniority. but that's part of what makes the shows interesting, the tension between traditional hierarchical SK social structure and the alternate world of the game that incentivizes breaking those rules. however there was something weirder going on in the devil's plan b/c of orbit's whole MO of creating a big alliance but calling it "saving everyone" instead of a "majority alliance." i think it ironically made their behavior towards those on the outside of the alliance look a lot crueler than it otherwise would've if they'd just called it what it was.

anyway, we get a season two!

https://www.soompi.com/article/1624800wpp/netflixs-the-devils-plan-confirms-production-of-season-2

Thanks for the revival of this thread because I would never have known otherwise now that I don't use twitter where I would faithfully along with Bumdidlyump's subs alerts. I look forward to binging some eps the next few weeks!

Ok, most apparent difference for me was a technological one. Whereas previously I had a dodgy 720p rip with Bumdi's subs overlayed as she was releasing in real time, to seeing this is in outrageous 60fps 4K... so much lip tint, concealer & 성괴 scars... and that's just the men!

Lowkey loved that pro-Go player Yeon-Woo was pretty useless even in her element (the land grab/tetris game)...

...but even moreso that ORBIT only really excelled in the game with the least science/strategy (Hi/Lo which has a huge luck factor in the dealt cards). Probably his edit, but he came off as a tiresome blowhard trying to gamesplain at every opportunity, rarely to any success. Joon-Bin had the sickest burn: "Perhaps keeping your cool is also a science."

Loved the prison (kettle and can wash-up anyone?) but the bonus quest was amazing, tho I wish it had gone to a true underdog at that point.

The living quarters being part of the game gave me flashbacks to Society Game (shout-out to the OGs on this thread).

But yes, more of this, I would love to rewatch The Genius again esp in HD and legit subs.

i try not to think of society game, still scarred by MJ's loss

equation hi/lo required maths skills which is why orbit was able to succeed there. a lot of the other players were just not very good at coming up with optimal equations from their cards.

rewatching S2 before looking at the devil’s plan and it’s a lot of fun obv and also sangmin is obv GOAT but nothing will be the slow burn of discovering the mechanics and possibilities with that group of people in S1.

genuinely one of the best things i’ve watched.

what a great watch - think i prefer this format even if the end was slightly rushed

was also nice to see an - albeit fairly loose - adaptation of Patchwork - probably my favourite board game

i had no idea David Holmes featured so highly in the music selection! but yeah this is a wild mix for triggering show memories.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuHoal-SrkIKNnqjENuBJ0nSTDPDbgHo8