T/S: Liquid Swords vs. Only Built 4 Cuban Linx vs. Supreme Clientele

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Well?

― Robert Noll, Thursday, 27 January 2005 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Liquid Swords.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, second for Liquid Swords

― thank god i ain't too cool for the safe belt (smile), Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

cuban linx for me

― pete b. (pete b.), Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Cuban Linx. My intro to Wu-Tang, so it holds a special place in my heart.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

a year ago i would have said supreme clientele without pause. but cuban linx really is so good innit ...

― jake b. (cerybut), Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Liquid and Cuban in a tie. And a hard tie to break at that, let me listen to them again here when I can...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned OTM, i'm gonna listen to both these again tonight. without having listened to either in awhile, my gut is telling me Liquid.

― jonviachicago, Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

ghostface wins for me on all occasions

― El Janko (JasonD), Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i just got a real copy of 'clientele' a couple weeks ago - hearing it in full, i think it's really terrific. i've got 'linx' on order.

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 27 January 2005 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Liquid OWNS Cuban linx. The beats are so much better, and Cuban linx drags and drags. Liquid is 100% perfect.

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 27 January 2005 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

duh that Supreme Clientele ownz over all. everyone else is settling for second. but since Starks is on waaaay more of Linx...
Cuban Linx is as lush, sprawling, as opulent as a Godfather movie. though i don't recall much after "Ice Cream." has there been a better Nas rhyme since the one on "Verbal Intercourse"?

― Beta (abeta), Thursday, 27 January 2005 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

order of pref.

1. clientele
2. swords
3. linx

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Thursday, 27 January 2005 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Linx.

― Austin (Austin), Thursday, 27 January 2005 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Lyrics : Liquid Swords
Beats: Cuban Linx

Overall: Liquid Swords

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Cuban Linx
LS and SC tied underneath it.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Swords and Linx tied for me....

....also, wouldn't Ironman be a more appropriate one for Ghostface on this TS?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Ironman takes a distant third, though...it's generally accepted that Supreme Clientele was Ghost's finest solo moment.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

as more time passes, I'm leanin towards "Pretty Toney" being Ghost's real crowning achievement, but there are few who agree with me...

I just love him, he's the best.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Ironman!

― Lovelace, Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

it's generally accepted that Supreme Clientele was Ghost's finest solo moment.

I have serious doubts as to whether any serious Wu fans believe this; in fact, I have never heard anyone express that sentiment before. As far as I can tell, there's a solid allegiance to the RZA's almost-uniformly great productions on the first round of Wu solo albums. To say it's SC is "generally accepted" as the best Ghost album is-- at best-- up for debate. Anyway how could the productions on SC beat out RZA's amazing production on Ironman? Regardless, there's no way Ironman is a distant third out of the choices. It's probably the best of the three, but certainly not much worse than the other two if it's third.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I've seen Supreme Clientele get a ton of love, on this board at least. Should probably scan some old threads to verify tho...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

and the people on this board are somewho supposed to represent the stereotypical rap fan? I doubt that! ironman is by far the most beloved ghostface album among hip hop heads.

― Lovelace, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

"stereotypical rap fan" = puhleeeze

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess I meant more that Iron Man would be more era-appropriate....the first round of solo albums/the era when the Wu was really ruling things....but yeah I'd say I like Ironman at least as much as Supreme Clientele....(they are both great)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I have never heard anyone express that sentiment before.

weird--I've heard LOADS of people express that sentiment. (I agree w/it, btw, though I like all of Ghost's albums)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

you must not be talking to all of Lovelace's invisible masses of REAL hip hop fans, Matos.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

a little ILM consensus:

supreme clientele - c/d
Which Wu-Tang Albums Are Essential?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

shakey: stop being so bitchy. it's not a about "real" hip hop fans. I just dont think you can make that assumption(that supreme clientele is the most beloeved ghostface album) based on what people on this very board think.

― Lovelace, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not being bitchy, I'm just wary of you making a claim with no evidence to back it up. But no, of course I don't think ILM reflects larger, "real world" thinking in any serious way...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

to wit: "ironman is by far the most beloved ghostface album among hip hop heads."

I mean, who are you talking about? Is their some Ego Trip survey yr basing this on, mics awarded in the Source, something someone on the bus told you...?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I've always felt like I'm being contrary for repping Ironman over Clientele. After a long cold hard consideration though, I'd put SC over all of the above. There's a density to the beats, a reconstruction of black music from 1970 plus that gives it an attitude above and beyond its co-pilots. Ghostface's raps are like cryptic crossword puzzles too. It's an unparalleled scrambling of modern pop.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

most of the people I've seen who think SC is his best ARE on this board!

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

but do you have evidence? it seemed(to me) be based on what people on this board think. my assumption is based on how popular wu tang clan was back when ironman came out, that it sold more , that supreme clientele is almost never mentioned as a classic wu album etc.

― Lovelace, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Supreme Clientele sell more copies than Ironman (which to be honest I've never really liked all that much)?

Cuban Linx would probably be my favorite, but it ends being so long that it kind of numbs my mind after a while. Liquid Swords has the best production and the great Shogun Assassin samples, but it has my least favorite rapper. And Supreme Clientele has the most uneven production, but it's probably the most varied and listenable. I don't know these are three pretty close albums in quality. (FTR I think the first ODB and Meth records best of all Wu-solo.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

matos: yeah, exactly! I've never seen it(okay maybe once or twice) mentioned on any hip hop board I used to frequent when I was younger. to me it's like saying wu tang forever is more loved than enter the wu tang, which of course is ridiculous.

― Lovelace, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Except that when it came out it Wu Tang Forever got way way more critical love than Enter the 36 Chambers did and sold a bazillion more copies.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, I contradicted myself there. I feel stupid now.

― Lovelace, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Liquid Swords has the best production and the great Shogun Assassin samples, but it has my least favorite rapper

are you saying that you like U-GOD (U-FUCKING GOD!!) over GZA??? Please tell me I misunderstand.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I never made any claim that one was more well-loved than the other, except in terms of ILM, where I think its fairly clear SC is a favorite.

I just did a little googling and SC debuted at number seven on the Billboard Top 200 album chart. After selling 134,700 the first week, album sales dropped to 65,300 the second week, sending it down the upcoming March 4 charts to number 18...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"are you saying that you like U-GOD (U-FUCKING GOD!!) over GZA??? Please tell me I misunderstand."

Haha I meant of the three rappers whose albums were being compared.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Follow-up albums always offer more rewards than break-thru albums. It takes longer to get bored of listening.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

And according to Billboard "Ironman" went Gold... I wonder if sales is really a useful measure tho (as the disparity between the sales of the first two Wu albums attests)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

So Supreme Clientele didn't go gold? I'm kind of surprised. I remember it getting a lot of radio play.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"I never made any claim that one was more well-loved than the other, except in terms of ILM, where I think its fairly clear SC is a favorite."

Okay, in that case I might agree with you. My bad. For the record I think Supreme Clientele is a damn fine album.

― Lovelace, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't tell if it went gold or not, the article I found that in was just some press release thing... tho I guess if it'd gone gold it would've shown up on the Billboard site search...?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

huh, a Launch site claims SC went gold, and calls "Cherchez La Ghost" a "hit".

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah that's my memory of it too. Weird. Hmmn.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

fwiw(very little, and I don't care anyway so don't drag me into anything) this is the first place I've seen Supreme Clientele lauded as even *among* the best Wu releases. My opinion is that it indeed should be, but it's a distant fourth to the other two and Iron Man, which are all tied. Shadowboxing(meth's finest hour) vs. Assasination Day(MK delivers the coldest verse in history)? Guillotine vs. Camay? I can't call it, and I'm normally a listing ass muhfucka. Anyway ODB's first joint kills them all. Meth's debut is garbage, if anyone's asking.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Friday, 28 January 2005 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Cherchez was a hit, it had that cool video...

Alex, do you really like Raekwon more than GZA? For a while GZA was my favorite in the clan, I think. I have a soft spot for the classical juice crew metaphor stylee though.

As for the SC vs/ Ironman thing, this isn't the only place I've seen tons of praise for Supreme Clintele as one of the best Wu releases. And Ironman is way overlong and it's got like 5-6 great, classic highlights, some middling stuff and a couple awfully boring songs. Ghost didn't even have his amped up style yet!

― deej., Friday, 28 January 2005 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I've read praise for Supreme Clientele all over the place. I always got the impression that it was considered a "comeback" moment for the Wu. Whether there was a consensus that it was the best solo joint or better than Ironman is more up in the air, but it def. got love from a lot of folks when it came out.

And yeah these days I enjoy listening to Raekwon more than GZA (I freely admit that I didn't feel the same when these records came out.) I find GZA kind of a chore to listen to these days for some reason.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Where's the love for Cuban Linx? I always thought it was the ultimate Wu-Tang album.Also, the only record that made my friends cry when I played it to them (in a good way)

― Black Arkestra (Black Arkestra), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I voted for Cuban Linx! Quite a few other ppl did too.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Liquid Swords

― Nic de Teardrop (Nicholas), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"Meth's debut is garbage, if anyone's asking."

Apparently a lot of folks believe that this is the case and to all of them I only have one comment: "You are all fucking nuts."

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i like rae over gza, just slightly. rae's got some really tripped out lyrics if you listen close. seen both do great live solo shows.

― eman (eman), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Right on, Alex

― Black Arkestra (Black Arkestra), Friday, 28 January 2005 03:42 (twenty-one years ago)

tical is great. that was the first wu tape i bought and i like it even more so these days.

― eman (eman), Friday, 28 January 2005 04:10 (twenty-one years ago)

bobby digital is better than all of these put together.

― scg, Friday, 28 January 2005 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Liquid Swords gets my vote cause its not too long - there's really no skits or any bullshit that gets pointless after two listens. The version of Basic Instructions is better here than on the Killah Priest album too. Its the easiest Wu solo album to listen to from front to back.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 28 January 2005 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with everyone above who said that Ironman is the best Ghostface album.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 28 January 2005 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

on just pure, first impression basis back in the daze, each individual release seemingly triumphed over the one preceding it. tical (a mussorgsky beat? yo) was out-banana'd by ol' dirty (which no one is crazy enough to rank), which was out-classed by cuban linx, which was tightened and stripped to cold steel by liquid swords. but i recall ironman not quite measuring up to either liquid swords or cuban linx. it seemed, uh, "too soulful" (not apocaylptic enough, or not "don" enough) back then. but that brandenburg beat...
but that was just among all the blunt-smoking fools that i ran with...
and this is all pre-forever, which just seemed to pop the bubble with "oh, they are just a group of mortals capable of doing wack, not some ever-expanding shit-deep outward masterplan overlords."

― Beta (abeta), Friday, 28 January 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

bobby digital is better than all of these put together

no.

Tical is awesome though.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 28 January 2005 17:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Tical is hot, as are both "legit" ODB albums.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't like how rarely N**** Please is brought up in these convos; I think it's nearly as strong a sophomore release as SC.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah - I rate ODBs second one very highly. The stuff I listen to the most is probably split between Ghost and Ol Dirty.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 28 January 2005 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

argh wu rockists are the worst.

― scg, Friday, 28 January 2005 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

wu rockists?

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 17:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Did anyone here ever buy Wu Wear?

http://www.wuwearshoes.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/SSBB.jpg

Real Wu rockists wear Wu-Wear, several years after everyone else.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't know that anyone wore Wu-Wear (even after the "Wu-Wear Garment Renaissance" haha.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Even the clan preferred Hilfiger! But I've seen guys around chicago wear it, usually early-mid 30s black males and college-age white males.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm a college-age white male. I still bring out the Wu-wear shirt from the Wu-Tang Forever days every now and then. Also the 2nd ODB is definitely a classic overlooked by too many. Most people dig it but it doesn't really have that classic Wu feel - there's as many or more beats by the Neptunes and Irv Gotti as there are by RZA. I think thats why it tends to be forgotten in these Wu discussions.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 28 January 2005 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Any Wu album not produced by RZA doesn't sound like classic Wu.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 28 January 2005 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes we know.

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Only Built 4 Cuban Linx- this is gonna be the solo record that gets spins in 20 years.

― ANTONIO DEPIETRO, Friday, 28 January 2005 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes we know.

Yeah, well, you were saying that SC is universally considered (to paraphrase you a bit) to be Ghost's best moment. Now how could that be if it doesn't have the classic Wu sound?

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, i meant "generally considered"

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I said "generally accepted," not "universally considered," and just because it doesn't have the classic wu sound doesn't mean it's not Ghost's finest moment! I like Ghost best when he's doing his quirky, amped-up stream of consciousness thang, and he doesn't really do that on Ironman, which I find overlong and dry at times. ("Winter Warz" and "Daytona 500" and "Black Jesus," among others, are of course great)

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:03 (twenty-one years ago)

So you're talking about the lyrics and rapping, then? I guess what gets me off about the Wu is really the production.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes yes everyone knows. That's why Wu-Tang Forever gets so much scorn blah blah blah.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Both. I like both. Just because it's not classic RZA doesn't mean I don't like the beats. (see also: Pretty Toney)

― djdee2005 (djdee2005), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:09 (twenty-one years ago)

That's why Wu-Tang Forever gets so much scorn blah blah blah.

It does? A lot of Wu-heads seem to think it's their best overall, including all solo and group albums.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Wu Tang Forever is great. It took me a few listens to get it but eventually I did. The production is just fine too, For Heavens Sake.

And really Tru Master does the ol Wu sound better than RZA nowadays.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Wu Tang Forever is great, I remember listening the first time and being floored, and how flummoxed/put out I was when I saw how everyone else's excitement had been muted by how dense and demanding it seemed at first. I think the negative consensus most people refer to here is just ripples from that first tentative air of disappointment.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Saturday, 29 January 2005 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

someone left their wu wear baseball cap at me some years ago, i've still got that.

― m. (mitchlnw), Saturday, 29 January 2005 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

1. liquid swords
2. cuban linx
3. supreme clientele

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:03 (twenty-one years ago)

iron man would be ahead of cuban linx, but still behind liquid swords. that's not on the menu here, though.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:04 (twenty-one years ago)

(booooo ironman, overlong, great high points, DULLLLL low points.) Linx = number one for me.

― deej., Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

i like cuban linx! but GZA is one of my all-time favorites; i like his voice, his style, etc. so this is an easy choice.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:38 (twenty-one years ago)

you're nuts ironman kicks ass

― charleston charge (chaki), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

my fave liquid swords song may be "cold world," in no small part b/c i think inspectah deck is great on this one. a shame that his solo stuff was only OK (not awful, but not great either) - inspectah deck is the most underrated wu-man.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

where do the "movie clips" on cuban linx and liquid swords come from?

― Matt Sab (Matt Sab), Friday, 22 July 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

Cuban Linx = Scarface, John Woo's "The Killer" (I think those are the only two...?)
Liquid Swords = I forget what the opening kung-fu one is, but its mentioned in the Wu-Tang Manual (and is also used in Kill Bill 2)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 22 July 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

It's not just the opening - all of the Liquid Swords clips come from Shogun Assassin, right up through "my own neck... ridiculous."

It's a dubbed reader's digest condensation of the first two Lone Wolf and Cub movies (mostly Baby Cart at the River Styx, with a little Sword of Vengeance for backstory).

― rogermexico (rogermexico), Friday, 22 July 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

Lyrically, Liquid Swords is one of the best albums i've heard. His metaphors are brilliant and with RZA's cold beats, GZA conjures a (errrr) cold cold world. GZA is God

― Deirdre22, Monday, 6 August 2007 10:16 (eighteen years ago)

That'd be fitting, since apparently both God and GZA are against abortion (see "B.I.B.L.E.").

― Tuomas, Monday, 6 August 2007 10:44 (eighteen years ago)

i thought GZA had nothing to do with BIBLE except for sticking it on the tail end of his album

― ciderpress, Monday, 6 August 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

Weird, I've always thought GZA is on the second verse of B.I.B.L.E., but maybe it's Killah Priest all the way? I guess the anti-abortion part would fit his (often baffling) religious stance better.

― Tuomas, Tuesday, 7 August 2007 05:49 (eighteen years ago)

BIBLE sucks. god.

― poortheatre, Tuesday, 7 August 2007 06:09 (eighteen years ago)

stfu

― deej, Tuesday, 7 August 2007 06:21 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

the answer to the question this thread should be asking is Tical. the quality of the first round of Wu solo records in general is astounding but i fuckin love Meth and i would always reach for this record in front of those others.

― Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 9 August 2008 06:16 (seventeen years ago)

eight months pass...

bobby digital is better than all of these put together.
― scg, Friday, January 28, 2005 11:01 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark

lol

― mark cl, Friday, 10 April 2009 01:22 (seventeen years ago)

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