Worst Beatles song on Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band

So all this trashing of the legendary album turned out to be pretty irelevent. Why knock pepper off its perch?

I would say two reasons.

1. It got praised to such a degree in the early 70s that there just had to be a backclash. I mean, it was almost seen as objectively the best album ever, and there was almost no way that anyone could possibly argue against it. This had to lead to a backclash

2. Punk. "Sgt. Pepper" was pretty much the beginning of prog. Punk was a protest against all things prog, and once prog values became less important (which was the more visible long term effect of punk, although arguably prog may as well have been killed by AOR), "Sgt. Pepper" also felt relevant. It was a huge influence on virtually everything that happened until 1976, and then, it hasn't influenced one tenth as much music after that.

and once prog values became less important (which was the more visible long term effect of punk, although arguably prog may as well have been killed by AOR), "Sgt. Pepper" also felt relevant.

Also felt LESS relevant, I mean.

I've always considered The Beatles to be a 'pop' band or at least a 'not weddded to one genre' band rather than a 'rock' band. The fact that psychedelia to them was about stuff like Revolution Number Nine or Day in the Life or For the Benefit of Mister Kite than "traditional" psychedelic music actually rings truer to my experiences.

just want to debate the "guitar-ness" of this record...

GUYS there is TONS of guitar on this record. u def???????

my only preference is that "good morning" with the horrible brass arrangement be left off in favor of the ROCKING version on Anthology 2.

Samuel: nah, I'm retired fully from writing.

Voted Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds because it's fucking shit.

I always thought prog was killed off by their album cover art.

I've always considered The Beatles to be a 'pop' band or at least a 'not weddded to one genre' band rather than a 'rock' band.

The pop vs. rock thinking started later.

If there was pop in 1967, then Engelbert Humperdinck and Petula Clark were pop, in which case The Beatles were obviously rock.

And, I mean, I say that as an outspoken fan of POP rather than rock. Only in the sense that The Beatles later came to be define as the most classic of POP bands. This was not the case in 1967 though.

I really like the beatlemania-era Beatles on the cover

in which case The Beatles were obviously rock.

Um, okay but 'For the Benefit of Mr Kite' is not a rock song. It's probably not even a pop song until they become "the most classic of pop bands". By my standards, the Beatles do have some excellent rock songs. me and Charlie M<anson, fwiw, agree on 'Helter Skelter', for example, but anything even from Revolver on is likely to have at least a halfway heteroclite collection of songs on it that were little like (the collection in its entirety) many other acts out there, or at least mega-huge ones. This has not entirely changed today.

"rock" is a red herring phrase introduced to this discussion by Geir.

I really don't care about genres that much anyway; they're useful sometimes and obfuscatory at others.

particularly do not care about genres as defined by geir

I also believe, since they are essentially descriptive, that epithets and genres are mutable over time. Case in point: it never fails to amuse me how many little kids I know now are really into the once terribly rebellious Ramones. What was 'unthinkable' 'race music' in the 50's sounds almost quaint, now, and yet it is unmistakably 'rock' and often quite good at that.

Lovely Rita is one of the best songs in here. Anyone voting Lovely Rita gets a SB from me and I never give SB.

Agree with George Martin that leaving Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields off of this album was a really bad decision, if I could play god I'd remove 'mr. kite' and 'when im 64' and substitute them by Penny and Strawberry fields, not because I think they're bad songs but because they do seem to ruin the overall 'concept' sound they were trying to achieve here.

Fwiw, I once decided Lovely Rita was my fave on this, but I can't help thinking, now, that I really like the whole album as an album.

I like the whole album too, but imo the individual songs seem sorta slight when you isolate them

but I don't wanna be SB'd for voting Rita! :(

I would have a tough time picking a worst song on this album let alone a bad song. If you remove one song the whole album falls apart, like a game of Jenga! But if I am forced to choose, Good Morning Good Morning because of the rooster sound.

I like GMGM in context: Lennon bored out of his mind in suburbia doing massive amounts of acid by himself.

It kind of sets up A Day in the Life, too.

I don't get the hatred against "Mr. Kite". I see it as one of the highlights of this album, crowded with strange and weird noises and just the perfect Music Hall/Vaudeville feel that really fits so well into the entire album concept. One of the best Lennon songs ever.

Lovely Rita is one of the best songs in here. Anyone voting Lovely Rita gets a SB from me and I never give SB.

― Moka, Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:12 PM (Yesterday)

These threads bring out the worst in people!

She's Leaving Home is boring. Admit it.

She's Leaving Home makes me cry.

Not sure that I agree with George Martin. "Penny Lane" and "Strawberry Fields Forever" stand apart from the Sgt Pepper concept, being site-specific and personally autobiographical

From what I understand this is because the album was going to be based on their childhoods of growing up in Liverpool, and "When I'm 64" was brought out before "Penny Lane" was even finished because it was a tune they used to do when they were first starting out. Whether they could have kept up this theme over the length of an album (especially in the midst of ego-destroying drug binges) is another matter, but had the single tracks ended up on the album, perhaps a number of the character songs ("Lucy", "Mr. Kite", "Rita") would have been left off. Possibly more introspective songs would have taken their places.

kinda :( that anyone would hate on the title track or the reprise. the drums and guitars, so damn hot

"when i'm sixty four" is the worse for me; should have left it w/the rest of the rejects, paul!

She's Leaving Home makes me cry.

― VegemiteGrrrl, Friday, September 25, 2009

If you've ever had a sibling run away even briefly, and this was something that was like epidemic in the 1960s into the 1970s, it is indeed sad

Fixing A Hole.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekRrnlP4pYE

xxpost....or if you've moved continents :(

although I know they were at one point intended to be on the record, in no way do I think penny lane or strawberry fields fit in with the rest of the album, and don't belong there.

Is there a thread somewhere on "how would you sequence Sgt. Pepper with PL/SF added and two songs subtracted?" I think I'll be playing around with that this weekend while riding the train...

Switch SFF in for LSD, and PL in for 64; sorted.

Yeah, but really, they'd have written a whole bunch of themed songs instead, and possibly made the least interesting album of their career!

Sixty Four, easily. It's just too silly for me, I can't listen to it anymore (and this is a rarity when it comes to The Beatles). Either SFF or Penny Lane would be great substitutions, but I'm perfectly okay with Rita kicking in after Within You Without you. Which is how I'm listening to the album already.

If you're going to pick a McCartney offense I think Lovely Rita is by far and away more offensive than When I'm 64. 64 is one of my favorite songs ever and while Rita actually doesn't bother me it's got too much OTT 'LOOK AT ME I'M SILLY' McCartney energy, particularly in the way he sings the line "Give us a wink and make me think of yoooouu". OTOH the ending freakout of that song is very strange and really kind of makes up for the rest of it.

Yeah, but really, they'd have written a whole bunch of themed songs instead, and possibly made the least interesting album of their career!

― Mark G, Friday, September 25, 2009 3:01 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark

I get the feeling that "A Day in the Life" was a bit of a continuation of this though, which is perhaps the most interesting song they've ever recorded.

Brilliant album. This and MMT are the pinnacle IMO. Thought 64 but then ran that song through my head and no longer want to. Actually, of course! Getting Better. Still a good song, but my reasoning is much the same as EZ Snappin's. It's the least brilliant thing here IMO.

@Adam, I like Rita way better because of the lush arrangement, the 'aaahss', and the ~ admitted, silly but also charming ~ piano interlude. So much going on in that song sonically.

Why is 64 one of your favorite songs ever?

The stabbing and clear guitar on Getting Better alone will always make me a stan of that song

64 is pleasant enough but it represents the side of the Beatles that I find the least interesting of all. Even the singalong children's songs they did have more interesting things going on in them than Paul's 30s pastiches.

Some people needs to get away from this idea that music is about rebellion. I find trying to link together different generations' musical taste a good thing rather than a bad one. One of the best things about Paul McCartney is his ability to seek out music by older generations, and it is also part of his personality and background because he was the only Beatles who grew up in a family where the parents were heavily into music too (adding a touch of Music Hall and Vaudeville to the 50s rock'n'roll that otherwise dominated what the others were into).

He is more interesting when he manages to combine his Music Hall influence with more modern pop elements though, like in "Penny Lane", "Fixing a Hole" and "Your Mother Should Know". Those are better song than his plain 30s pastiches are.

Some people need to get away from the idea that it's OK to say things in sweepingly objectivist terms.

This thread is actually giving me a lot more insights into the workings of Geir's tastes and their formation than it is about the work of the Beatles.

Interesting, even if not what I clicked the thread for.

I kind of agree with Geir's second paragraph there. Not the first though.

Yeah. The music hall influence is obv. integral to the Beatles (and the English psychedelic sound in general). But the straight pastiches are a bit pointless.

I like 64 cos it's really sweet - its a silly song you can sing to a girl you are trying to woo - and also with the most stripped-down arrangement on Sgt. Pepper it comes across as the most subtle thing on the album. I like how they sneaked in the "We shall scrimp and save" and "wasting away" lines they're silly and really kind of bitter but don't bring down the joy of the song very much.

That's nicely said Adam. I'll try to listen to it later on with those words in mind. Though I think I'd never sing it to a girl I want to woo :-)