The Pipettes

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"In an a time where we have Girls Aloud and Sugababes, liking the Pipettes is a bit like being nostalgic for Herman's Hermits."

It begs question whether taste need be an either/or proposition. Frankly, I feel that one may be openminded enough to enjoy both Wong Kar-Wai and Howard Hawks, Dostoyevsky and David Foster Wallace, and, in terms of mainstream pop music, Sugababes and Herman's Hermits. The past shouldn't be treated as a foreign country, after all.

ALSO: Yay Pipettes!

Richard Baez (Johnny Logic), Saturday, 24 June 2006 01:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't remember where i nicked the "past as a foreign country" bit from...works well within the argument, I suppose.

Richard Baez (Johnny Logic), Saturday, 24 June 2006 02:14 (seventeen years ago) link

What about not being particularly nostalgic per se for Herman's Hermits? What about just realizing that they were often really good? Is that okay?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 24 June 2006 02:37 (seventeen years ago) link

Actually, sure, nostalgia. Nostalgia is a part of the postmodern condition. There is nothing postmodern about Girls Aloud or Sugababes?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 24 June 2006 02:46 (seventeen years ago) link

This is the first song of theirs I've heard where it sounds like they can actually sing, which is kind of important for what they're trying to do. I found "Your Kisses" impossible to listen to, even though the pre-chorus (?) bit where Gwenno sings "You might try..." is one of the more beautiful things I've heard in a long time.

pleased to mitya (mitya), Saturday, 24 June 2006 04:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Things I didn't need to find out: said Gwenno is in fact a ringer, having toured the world with Lord of the Dance and Riverdance for many years, recorded a couple of Welsh-language singles and (reportedly) represented Wales in Eurovision-type contests, and had her own TV show (again in Welsh). And here's her myspace with a solo song on it: http://www.myspace.com/gwenno

pleased to mitya (mitya), Saturday, 24 June 2006 05:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, the album's full of really blatant filler.

huh? it's as tight as you could ever want! it's bloody marvelous, it doesn't outstay its welcome and it has repeatedly made me laugh out loud on the tube.

the my life story comparison is not a million miles from the truth, either! and that's sure to sort the men from the boys.

the day looks are ignored when it comes to image-conscious bands is the day pop music dies, and anyone who seriously thinks a band's visual aesthetic is irrelevant or not worthy of judgement is naive to the extreme. kate, you know this really, stop being reactionary!

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Saturday, 24 June 2006 12:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Does the world really need a female Showaddywaddy?

Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Saturday, 24 June 2006 13:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Does the world really need an Everett True wank fantasy with an organised street team?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 24 June 2006 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

i dunno, do you?

electric sound of jim (and why not) (electricsound), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:53 (seventeen years ago) link

"wait, why am I not just listening to that? It is way better than the Pipettes."

That's kind of the problem with the entire thing, isn't it? I like a couple of their songs alright, but after two or three minutes I just start wondering why I'm not listening to One Kiss Can Lead To Another instead.

joseph cotten (joseph cotten), Saturday, 24 June 2006 14:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Can any of you people with theory grounding explain to me what it is they're doing (or not) with harmony . I realized last night that it sounds very much like the B-52s, and no one else. Is it a specific, unusual interval or just bad singing?

pleased to mitya (mitya), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think there's anything unusual about it intervallically.

I really like the drum sound on this record. I like how they've done a bigger production that uses that contemporary garage rock drum sound (fairly dry, crisp, and loud). It's fresh.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 24 June 2006 18:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Above comments on production weirdness seconded. Listen to "Pull Shapes": for the most part when they're singing together it's fairly normal. Then the bits where each singer gets a line: Gwenno's bit ("I like to disco," later "I lead with left hand") sounds pretty consistent with the rest of the song, and lots of multitracking. But then Rose comes in ("I like to rock and roll,") and Becki ("I like to hip hop") - the recording levels are so high, you can hear the voices start to distort, plus that incredibly wet echo - you can hear them standing in a big, empty room. It sounds like those bits were recorded completely separately and then sloppily edited in.

pleased to mitya (mitya), Sunday, 25 June 2006 11:46 (seventeen years ago) link

i love them, and i don't get the hate, although it's apparently quite extended too. but i can't understand why some people hate them so much and want us to feel guilty for liking them... whatever. great songs, great fun.

joan vich (joan vich), Monday, 26 June 2006 10:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Sounds okay. Perky, catchy, and fucking bulletproof from every direction. They manage to occupy some weird cultural overlook that makes 'em seem simultaneously "manufactured" and "authentic", and in the process rubbishes the distinction. Like electroclash for people who don't do (as much) cocaine.

P.S. They're sexy.

And the perception of "sexy" takes up a lot of the male brain think-capacity. We all know this: male, female, gay, straight, whatever. We all know that most guys spend an awful lot of their time looking at "hot" bodies and thinking about what might be done with or to them, as depersonalized sex objects. (Hopefully, we're also grown up enough to realize that this is perfectly okay...)

The Pipettes know know that the boys are looking, as did the Ronettes and certainly Spector himself. Sure, they're speaking to other girls of/from shared experience, but they're also, very explicity, speaking to boys. And specifically, intentionally positioning themselves as objects-to-be-looked-at.
And lusted-over.
By boys.

So be it. And so what? That's what people do. It's what rock bands do. Just like the Strokes and Iggy Pop before them. Sex appeal appeals. Again, though, I suspect that everyone already knows this.

If the Pipettes didn't WANT their sex appeal to be an issue, they wouldn't make such an issue of it. And since they do so obviously want it to be an issue, I think it's perfectly appropriate to include it in the discussion.

fuckfuckingfuckedfucker (fuckfuckingfuckedfucker), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:20 (seventeen years ago) link

I think the world could sorely do with a female Showaddywaddy!

I am quite nostalgic about Herman's Hermits. But I do not live in 1964.

I think sentimentality about the future is far more dangerous than sentimentality about the past.

I have only heard a couple of Pipettes tracks.

They sounded fairly good and witty to me.

It would be nice to have a Fuzzbox revival.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:28 (seventeen years ago) link

no one is really talking about their (stultifyingly unimaginitive)image though are they, most of the criticicm is targeted at the tired and cynical sonic hack work.

cw (cww), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I always associate Showaddywaddy with Russ Abbott's Madhouse. Were they on it a lot?

Pippettes image is not sexy, it is sterile, like their name.

Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Considering the geezer from the Go! Team worked on the record, I'm disappointed that it has such little oomph or invention or wit. They go on about Spector, but when his records came out they sounded (I am imagining) HUGE and MODERN and a little SCARY! With their quaint aesthetic sensibilities, if the Pipettes had existed in 1962 they would have sounded like Vera Lynn!

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 26 June 2006 11:48 (seventeen years ago) link

This depends on whether you consider "HUGE and MODERN and a little SCARY" to be positives and "quaint aesthetic sensibilities" a pejorative.

If Uncut had existed in 1962 they would have been doing 30-page cover features on Vera Lynn.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Well no: if you invoke the spirit of pre-Beatles pop as a positive thing, you should at least try and be animated by some of that spirit yourself, rather recreating the period details in a rather literal way.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:11 (seventeen years ago) link

This is easily solveable. Have the Pipettes featured in Uncut? Have they featured in... MOJO! Does MOJO even put newish people in evarr? Roger Waters who invented Water was on the cover, once.

I like their song, ABC! I would not like to see them live, because it's all a bit creepy. It's like the Sarah Cracknell effect manipulated to the max, more than one song can get quite unappetising. Also, MEN OF THE WORLD, there are grillions of gurlies who look like this if you just go to Brick Lane market or indeed to New Cross :( ... or do I mean :) I dunno!!

Bhumibol Adulyadej (Lucretia My Reflection), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:14 (seventeen years ago) link

The Pipettes don't qualify for the cover of Uncut or Mojo, being alive.

They sound nothing like the Beatles, nor especially like the Vernons Girls or the Caravelles.

Doubtless if they were middle-aged, hairy men replicating the period details of the Flying Burrito Brothers, Uncut writers would be disposed towards them more favourably.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:17 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, I wasn't thinking the cover. I was thinking one of the tiny rectangles at the bottom of page 132 with teeny tiny picture. I can't imagine the Pipettes being on the cover of Plan B, never mind Uncute/Modjo.

I like to think of them - incidentally - as the Pie Pets, which is a much better name, don't you think?

Bhumibol Adulyadej (Lucretia My Reflection), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:27 (seventeen years ago) link

If they did a cover of the Caravelles' "I hear a new kind of music" I might like them!

Funnily enough, I have written about the Pipettes for Uncut. But I don't think I have written about many middle-aged hairy men! I do quite like that Midlake record though.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:28 (seventeen years ago) link

It's quite good but not the second coming of Syd Barrett which Morley claimed. What is it with PM and his Syd fixation at the moment?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 26 June 2006 12:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't imagine the Pipettes being on the cover of Plan B, never mind Uncute/Modjo.

Funnily enough, The Pipettes are, in name at least, on the cover of the new Plan B! Big feature within, too, with much polka-dottage and excited/ing chatter.

CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Monday, 26 June 2006 22:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Although the Long Blondes got the actual cover shot. Good heavens, is it 1992 again so soon? ;-)

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 06:19 (seventeen years ago) link

I think sentimentality about the future is far more dangerous than sentimentality about the past.

can you expand on this Marcello? i thought it was an interesting remark.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:24 (seventeen years ago) link

also do people think they're better than early Bananarama in any department? i don't think i do.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:26 (seventeen years ago) link

can you expand on this Marcello? i thought it was an interesting remark.

never mind, i've seen the Stylus TOTP thing now.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:50 (seventeen years ago) link

also do people think they're better than early Bananarama in any department? i don't think i do.

God no. "Pull Shapes" is great, but it's hardly "Cruel Summer" is it?

edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 08:59 (seventeen years ago) link

It's something which occurred to me after I read this article which has haunted me in a lot of ways, principally because I'm surprised that I still agree with so much of it (xpost).

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 27 June 2006 09:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I heard their session on the Radcliffe show last night after coming home from the FAP.

It was most pleasant and attractive.

I think their album will make for fine and supple summer listening.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 29 June 2006 07:11 (seventeen years ago) link

am listening to radcliffe now (as usual) and the live version of the single sounded very similar. (i'm with the nipper on this, there is something missing with the single. previous tracks have been better.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/radcliffe/

koogy wonderland (koogs), Thursday, 29 June 2006 07:56 (seventeen years ago) link

the problem with the pipettes is that the concept is brilliant and the execution is abysmal. they don't have any pop performative sensibilities at all, they don't have any understanding of how to convey all the things they want to. and they can't sing.

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 29 June 2006 09:35 (seventeen years ago) link

obviously this is not either/or but compare the way the pipettes sing their lyrics to how girls aloud, sugababes, christina milian, christina aguilera, will young and rihanna sing theirs - all of the names i mentioned have pretty instinctive commercial pop nous, they're extremely adept at conveying emotions and emotions-beneath-the-emotions and emotions-at-odds-with-actual-words and subtleties and nuances, and their producers and arrangers are also extremely adept at this. the pipettes are sterile in comparison - i don't feel compelled by their songs at all.

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 29 June 2006 09:38 (seventeen years ago) link

do you like or know much about the style of music the Pipettes are aping tho? i'm not sure if this is really important re the criticism but i am curious as i don't think i've heard you talk about old girl group stuff much before.

Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 09:41 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't have v extensive knowledge of old girl groups but this is due to lack of time more than anything else, because i adore that sound and aesthetic! i may well play some supremes at do dirt tonight.

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 29 June 2006 09:43 (seventeen years ago) link

The Pipettes can certainly sing.

You should play some Marvelettes - much better than Dross and the Supremes.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 29 June 2006 10:08 (seventeen years ago) link

the way the pipettes sing their lyrics

I actually think this "emotional flatness" is kind of characteristic of some early girl group stuff -- Diana Ross is almost too late -- and so, to an extent that it may be intentional. I do agree, however, that only one of them (Gwenno, noted above) really seems to be a good singer.

(hmm, well, I guess I disagree with Marcello on this. Maybe the live session will convince me I'm wrong)

pleased to mitya (mitya), Thursday, 29 June 2006 10:12 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't think it's emotional flatness - i like emotional flatness in the shangri-las style. it's hard to explain but i think it's because they have no idea how to make their lyrics mean any more than exactly what they say - there are no nuances at all.

?You should play some Marvelettes

i should HEAR some marvelettes! i have no idea where to start with any old girl groups. (while you're here marcello, where should i start with pre-tilt scott walker? i have never heard any of it!)

the pipettes sound fine on record, praise be to autotune, but i heard a live tv show they did and it was appalling, their voices are these awful out-of-tune caterwauling things which completely betray their lack of formal training (obv formal training is not a necessity by any means but if you are in a girl group and are singing HARMONIES it is best not to flaunt your vocal deficiencies)

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 29 June 2006 10:19 (seventeen years ago) link

I rather doubt that Scott Walker of any era would fill the floor at Do Dirt!

However, since you asked...

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 29 June 2006 10:23 (seventeen years ago) link

i've heard GA sing badly live on TV too fwiw

Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 10:23 (seventeen years ago) link

oh thanks marcello - i really like that beth gibbons piece at the top of the page too, i'd not read that before.

steve, girls aloud sing (technically) badly on record too, but it doesn't matter because they don't sing material which requires much technical mastery.

The Lex (The Lex), Thursday, 29 June 2006 10:33 (seventeen years ago) link

neither do the Pipettes if you ask me (because i haven't noticed their voices being particulrly bad on records, nor are they particularly great either of course).

Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 10:34 (seventeen years ago) link

i saw this lot on tv a few weeks ago, it was embarrassing to watch.

teh_kit has 22 friends (g-kit), Thursday, 29 June 2006 12:53 (seventeen years ago) link

>emotional flatness in the shangri-las style<

Pardon me?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 29 June 2006 12:59 (seventeen years ago) link

They don't remind me of 60s girl groups AT ALL but they do remind me of the 80s girl group revival - later Stiff acts, Mari Wilson, Tracey Ullman, the Belle Stars. I think that's a good sound to aim for: I think I'm with Marcello on this one.

Tom (Groke), Friday, 30 June 2006 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link


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