Hip Hop taken to new levels.

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You've made a pretty big assumption about me ddrake, one I'm not sure you could back up.

You have discovered the joy that is ddrake! Revel in his love for you, for without someone to demonize, he would not exist.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:51 (twenty years ago) link

So why when I argue this position am I met with comparisons to this Geir fellow? Who I felt like disembowling the moment I read his posts, incidently.

Precisely.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:52 (twenty years ago) link

http://nihilistdisco.matterwave.net/images/ss_smb3_king.gif

― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:52 (twenty years ago) link

Nihilist I double kiss thee.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:52 (twenty years ago) link

i'm sorry i even posted to this thread.

― rob geary (rgeary), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:53 (twenty years ago) link

ddrake when oberlin sent you the thin envelope did you take it hard?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:54 (twenty years ago) link

be honest ddrake

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:54 (twenty years ago) link

Also, I don't think that hip hop would be improved by any of this, but simply opened up and expanded. Having more options doesn't nullify already existing stylistic choices. The staples of the genre wouldn't be under any kind of threat by more all-inclusiveness.
Why is it so threatening to want to explore new sounds?

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:54 (twenty years ago) link

Why is it so threatening to want to explore new sounds?

Because ddrake said so. (So okay, maybe entirely taking it back to him all the time isn't the best approach, but he likes the attention.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:55 (twenty years ago) link

and plz more details about how black artists need to emulate dead white artists if they want to make 'progress'

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:56 (twenty years ago) link

I mean the people who wish hip-hop would 'expand it's sonic pallette' or 'let in more of the globe' - do you people own radios?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:56 (twenty years ago) link

http://nihilistdisco.matterwave.net/images/1-1.jpg

― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:56 (twenty years ago) link

Oh, the usual academic posturing. You've made a pretty big assumption about me ddrake, one I'm not sure you could back up. I doubt you have any elite access to some proper hip hop appreciation, even if you are knowledgable. Instead of anwering a question, you simply hide behind pseudo-intellectual bullshit, spouting off about "cultural context" and "aesthetic purpose" like it has anything to do with the question. And race politics certainly do not figure into my pursuit even if I admit that hip hop is rooted in black American culture. I think your equating blackness with conservative dance music is more loaded with racism than anything I said.
Now please, say something relevant or shut up. :-)

Ooh, an actual argument.

"academic posturing..." as if I've learned this in college. No, its impossible that these are my OWN ideas and from experience, I have come to these conclusions? Please, my black history professor freshman year was on tenure, I learned shit in that class. Ha.

Someone needs to ban the prefix "psuedo."
Not bullshit. This is a serious argument I'm making, and I don't see why its necessary to belittle it with accusations of "psuedo-intellectualism." I wouldn't accuse INTENTIONAL race politics of coming into yr question, but rather culturally ingrained issues of race. I certainly wouldn't claim to be the all-knowledgeable god of hip hop, but man, discussing hip hop on ILM makes me want to hurl.

There's a difference between Sun Ra and Art Ensemble of Chicago and Anthony Braxton and Bill Evans (token white progressive dude) and ... Yes and Rush and Genesis. If you are looking for the Sun Ra/Art Ensemble/etc. artists, I'll tell you when I find some. Meanwhile, I'd like to point out that my initial comments were directed towards the assumed "progressivism" of using instrumental solos. How "trad" can you GET?! Frankly, yr number 4 I'd be very interested in seeing more of. Admittedly, my initial white comment was meant to provoke. It did. I am happy. yay!

Because ddrake said so.

It really is like being out on the playground again.
Cinniblount has yet to say anything relevent.
PS: didn't apply to Oberlin
PPS: Oberlin is a shitty school
PPPS: You suck.

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:57 (twenty years ago) link

and plz more details about how black artists need to emulate dead white artists if they want to make 'progress'

dude, are you talking to me? Cause I wasn't arguing this at all.

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 04:58 (twenty years ago) link

ddrake has yet to respond to what anyone actually said (as opposed to what he'd like to pretend they said)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:58 (twenty years ago) link

No, its impossible that these are my OWN ideas and from experience

You deny that possibility for the rest of us...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link

ddrake have you ever actually heard one of these 'hip-hop records' you're talking about?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link

http://nihilistdisco.matterwave.net/images/377.jpg

― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link

I'm curious why that Baraka poem would have John wanting dismiss EVERYTHING else Jones/Baraka wrote. I seem to remember the WTC being a pretty powerful piece (although that line about 4,000 Jews not going to work at WTC that day was very unfortunate--and his subsequent refusal to acknowledge that it was untrue was pretty pathetic). That made me pretty irritated (and I could see why it would make a lot folks downright angry) but it DIDN'T even make forget the point of the rest of the piece (let alone want to deny everything else the guy ever wrote had validity).

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 17 November 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link

wooster tell us more about how emulating forty, fifty, sixty,... year old tropes is 'progress'

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:00 (twenty years ago) link

You deny that possibility for the rest of us...

So argue with me about it rather than personally insulting a talking head on the internet.

ddrake has yet to respond to what anyone actually said (as opposed to what he'd like to pretend they said)

What?!

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:00 (twenty years ago) link

wooster tell us more about how emulating forty, fifty, sixty,... year old tropes is 'progress'

Dude what the fuck are you talking about? Have you been paying attention to what I've said at all?

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:01 (twenty years ago) link

they teach dodgeball at wooster ddrake?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:01 (twenty years ago) link

wow, i wanna play mario 3 now

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:02 (twenty years ago) link

Did you guys actually read the original question? I don't recall only putting emphasis on "white" music. Only one of the four ideas had anything to do with "dead white guys". Seriously, read carefully before you comment. Instead of projecting your own weird assumptions into my post, try actually reading it.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:02 (twenty years ago) link

also what wooster class is it where they tell you emulating forty year old (or older) musical tropes is 'progress'?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:02 (twenty years ago) link

also what wooster class is it where they tell you emulating forty year old (or older) musical tropes is 'progress'?

Is this some sort of joke?

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link

ddrake could you provide specific examples of what it is in the music you find lacking? (ie. at least go thru the motions of making an argument 'relevant' to this thread)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link

So argue with me about it rather than personally insulting a talking head on the internet.

http://www.persil.co.uk/images/in/images2/ironing.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link

Cinniblount, reread the thread before you say another thing.
Take note of which side you are arguing with.

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:04 (twenty years ago) link

it's not a joke ddrake - what class is it where they tell you emulating the past is progress?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:04 (twenty years ago) link

http://nihilistdisco.matterwave.net/images/jlpiad.jpg

― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:04 (twenty years ago) link

haha - which "side"???? so wait - is this an ACTUAL game of dodgeball?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:05 (twenty years ago) link

was it geology ddrake?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:05 (twenty years ago) link

Here were the two things that kicked off my involvement with this thread, cinniblount.

1. My contention that "Extended songs, with long organic instrumental sections" were not in fact progressive and were in fact REgressive.

2. My intentionally provacative comment that this was a "white" perspective.

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:05 (twenty years ago) link

http://www.pcusa.org/today/images/cover/0902/wooster.jpg

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:06 (twenty years ago) link

This was followed by the bully on the playground scene.

The flagpoll! 12:05 AM EST!

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:07 (twenty years ago) link

is 'intentionally provocative' (note spelling) supposed to be a good thing? shouldn't there be a general rule that people shouldn't pretend aesthetics older than themselves are 'progressive' or 'new'?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:07 (twenty years ago) link

ddrake does wooster have a college radio station?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:07 (twenty years ago) link

http://nihilistdisco.matterwave.net/images/keithpiad.jpg

― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link

surreal

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link

This thread has actually prompted me to listen to The Infamous. Aw, there, see ddrake, aren't you happy now? Oh tell me you are happy! I cannot live without your approval!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link

well Alex I am pretty reactionary in that way, it is a personal failing of mine

I'll concede the poem to be "powerful," but I've always had a weakness for Baraka's style - this weakness is I suspect is in fact related to my tendency to say things like "oh, if he wrote that, then fuck 'im." It's here: http://www.amiribaraka.com/blew.html

― J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:09 (twenty years ago) link

I am beginning to doubt ddrake actually goes to wooster

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:09 (twenty years ago) link

Thank you for correcting my spelling.
You guys can be some real bitches.
Forget a "discussion," lets gang up on the kid who disagrees with us/challenges the hive mind.
What 40 year old aesthetic am I considering progressive?

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:09 (twenty years ago) link

"bitches" - how progressive!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link

Ned Raggett here to pound my puny internerd-ego again! WOOOHOOO!

― ddrake, Monday, 17 November 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link

raggett smash

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link

David, what does being a "liason to recyclers" actually involve?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link

http://nihilistdisco.matterwave.net/images/Sch5.gif

― Nihilist Pop Star (mjt), Monday, 17 November 2003 05:11 (twenty years ago) link

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