2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

America has a lot of national myths, and its leaders seem much more explicitly in hock to the myth or myths of America than British leaders do. They also say 'God Bless America' and apparently have to be, or appear to be, devoutly religious to achieve high office.

There are reactionaries and progressive in America; there are reactionaries and progressives elsewhere.

Suzy, it sounds like you don't like your friends in London much.

That's why American literature is so awesome.

I like where this thread is going.

Pinefox, America has lots of religion, but outside Mormonism, not a lot of National religious mythology.

I'm not sure what that means. It remains a fact that one must be not merely tacitly or silently religious, but very stridently christian and constantly invoking and celebrating one's faith, to achieve the highest office (maybe not lower offices) in the US. I don't think that this is a good thing. It is not the case in the UK. The situation in other countries, perhaps others can describe, if they care to, though I expect they don't.

bulllllllllllllllshitttttttttttttttttttttt

it's ya boyyyy dan lacey

http://www.faithmouse.com/barack_obama_cartoon.jpg

lol

racist monkey dude looks like that creature they had selling six flags great america

It remains a fact that one must be not merely tacitly or silently religious, but very stridently christian and constantly invoking and celebrating one's faith, to achieve the highest office (maybe not lower offices) in the US.

Paying lip service and showing up at the occasional "prayer breakfast" =/= strident christianity.

obama loves pie

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/12/on-the-trail-obama-finds-nothings-as-easy-aspie/

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/12/on-the-trail-obama-finds-nothings-as-easy-aspie/

I like my friends in London just fine, pinefox. You know that.

Perhaps I'm not explaining well enough, but a friend raised the issue last week and I reminded her that 10 years ago all kinds of pieces ran about David Lammy one day being the first viable black Labour candidate for PM and wondered why he hadn't gone up the chain of command as fast as certain promising American politicians. OTOH Muslim MPs are not a huge news event here and the public is protected from excessive religiosity by a state-sanctioned church symbolically headed by a constitutional monarch.

the public is protected from excessive religiosity by a state-sanctioned church symbolically headed by a constitutional monarch.

Correlation does not imply causation.

caek, that's a great retort but it lacks a substantive explanation. Sorry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

"protection from excessive religiosity" has very little to do with the fact that the Church is formally established or we have a constitutional monarchy. Neither is true of France or many other European countries where politicians' faith is a private matter. We do all use the metric system though, so maybe that's the reason.

I know what that MEANS, but I just don't AGREE. Tch.

nsfw gif

^^post this whenever this thread gets derailed

I am so sick of seeing what some MORAN concocted while thinking about Sarah Palin's cooter.

yes

OK so you won't mind if a mod switches it to a link as it's NSFW.

http://apudgeisasandwich.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/akafishtaco.jpg

that link is SFW

http://fast.livecrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dztob9jpg.gif

OK so you won't mind if a mod switches it to a link as it's NSFW.

― jane hussein lane (suzy), Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:44 PM

suzy disapproves != nsfw

OY! Settle down in here! This is supposed to be the politics thread, not somewhere where people disagree rudely!

eman, that's a false equivalency and you know it. Please to send your resume to FOX.

Kos diarists trying to advance Palin's militia/AIP links in piggyback of Troopergate.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/12/13228/301/977/627523

i think you are the only one so far who finds that gif offensive

maybe you should send it to your mom and ask her what she thinks of it

Why the hostile? You seem like such a sweet little boy.

ha

http://fast.livecrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dztob9jpg.gif

(What's funny about that gif is Biden's expression, but it's pretty juvenile, really... even though I lolled...)

Anyway, someone help me out here. I was watching Meet The Press earlier, and in one segment they mentioned the debate question that asked the candidates whether, in the light of the economic downturn, they would have to "prioritize" aspects of their plans if elected president. Now I watched the debate itself at the time, but here also showed a clip of McCain saying he could work on them simultaneously whereas the clip of Obama showed him clearly prioritizing, even going as far as to enumerate them, bullet-point fashion (1. energy, 2. health care 3. education, I think). Cut to Tom Brokaw and he seems to imply that neither candidate answered the question, and the Democrat in the studio didn't even protest, while the Republican just said McCain was telling the truth and that of course he could work on all of them at once, etc.

Now, did I miss something? This wasn't FOX News, this was a (as far as I know) fairly respected political show and yet it seemed that again and again, in some kind of excruciating attempt to appear neutral and somehow objective, to bend over backwards in not highlighting the clear differences between the candidates, and indeed the campaigns (at another point, it again implied that the Obama campaign was equally responsible for the hateful rhetoric even though it clearly hasn't engaged in race-baiting or ugly smears). I mean, isn't the right complaining about the gutlessness of the MSM at the moment? Between giving the Palins a pass on their ties to some kind of Alaskan secessionist group and the above type of faux nonpartisanship, it seems to me that the MSM is pretty much at the same lapdog level it was while the Neocons ran amok in Washington. With the exception of Katie Couric, maybe? ;)

http://fast.livecrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/dztob9jpg.gif

http://i35.tinypic.com/o9raxv.gif

xposts Not to sound all Chomskyish, but until the media ceases to be a kajillion-dollar industry, in which a presidential race is a goldmine of a news event, it's hard to expect anything but 'encouragement' of a close race.

which is to say, lostandfound, that you're otm.

thy name is iwelumo xxpost

yet obama is the one being criticized for proposing more spending and higher taxes (ahem for the rich) in spite of the economic meltdown

Sarah Palin is disgusting and wicked, but I don't think that clip that people keep repeating is very funny. It's vulgar and unpleasant at best, and I want to say it lives off or derives from misogyny, but I can't be bothered trying to defend that claim, assuming anyone can be bothered to attack it.

Good job you didn't say that then.

we know

xpost

xposts

Yeah, I guess that I'd noticed a few exceptions earlier in the race in which some media people actually abandoned this fake balance and went after someone for their hypocrisy. I remember Chris Matthews a couple of months ago just slicing up some Republican hack who tried to stay on talking points but wasn't allowed to get away with it and was basically humiliated. Oh, and there was Campbell Brown going after Tucker Bounds that cause McCain to cancel Larry King! So there were a couple of signs, but overall they've reverted to type and it's sad to see (not to mention intensely frustrating and the cause of much screaming at TV screens).

Yeah, G00blar, every time a candidate seems to get ahead, there is a tendency for the media to go after that person and rein them in. I wonder if it's just kneejerk nowadays or whether they're overtly instructed to do this, for the ratings, etc.

It's not just religiosity that marks out the American right wing, it's the ultranationalism (which, like religion, the nominal left must at least pay lip service to). I can't count the number of eye rolls the phrase "The American Dream" provokes in Europe (setting aside the constant refrains from both Obama and McCain about how the US is the greatest country on Earth, or how its workers are the greatest workers on Earth). Phrases like that generally don't find thir way into European speeches. Which I'm pretty comfortable attributing to a handful of fairly unpleasant episodes in living memory involving certain European countries claiming to be the best nation on Earth. In high school I was in a band, and our drummer was a German guy who lived in Oak Ridge. His dad was a scientist who'd come to work on god knows what. He told me that he got freaked out on his first day of school, like really got completely thrown, when he saw the American flag right in the parking lot in front of the school. "You would never EVER see that in Germany! At a SCHOOL???"

i would suggest that while fox news is pretty culpable in going after only one side, the others definitely are doing their best to make this race seem a lot more interesting than it is. sometimes i watch coverage and i think, "jesus, mccain could totally win this thing" and while maybe it's technically true, it's probably not quite as likely as the cable news channels are making it out to be.

xpost to Tracer

We're almost as bad here in Canada, although like a hypocrite I don't mind it. Perhaps because there's nothing offensive about a red maple leaf(?). Although, being from England originally and remembering the silver jubilees and royal weddings and Falklands flag-waving orgies I was grossed out completely by the Brit equivalent.

Good point omar. I hope you're right.

(Funny how the ratcheting tension in the U.S election is forcing me to delurk here, even as we go to the polls ourselves on Tuesday.)

I think that the fact the United States didn't exterminate minorities in Death Camps probably contributes to the lack of humiliation over overt signs of Nationalism. (Which isn't to say that the US hasn't done awful things out of Nationalism fervor, but nothing as aesthetically disturbing as fascist regimes in Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.)