TS: Depeche Mode vs. New Order vs. Pet Shop Boys

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1. New Order
2. Depeche Mode
1003. Pet Shop Boys

jon /via/ chi 2.0, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 13:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hello, I New Order.

Mark G, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 14:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

1. New Order
2. Pet Shop Boys
3. Depeche Mode

but 1 is way ahead for me from the others (though I ordered Very last week so we'll see soon)

Euler, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 14:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

1. Depeche Mode
NO and PSB tied somewhere around the 20s or 30s.

ledge, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 14:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

i think NO are far ahead of PSBs. depeche are a laughable goth band.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 14:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

depeche are a laughable goth band.

RONG

stephen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 14:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

PSB for me—even though NO are the greater band, of course. They’re also, nonetheless, somewhat lacking when it comes to songwriting—at least when compared to Neil's awesome feats in that department. As for DM: I really should try paying attention to them someday. Maybe.

JN$OT, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

Norwegian electronic pop band Lorraine are back.

New Order, Depeche Mode and Pet Shop Boys influences all present !

The Norwegian electro pop trio is gearing up for the release of a new single, titled "Saved," in December that will be followed by another single in February, which will lead up to a full-length album around Easter that will consist of all new tracks plus some rarities.

Have a listen to an exclusive audio stream of "Saved" below.

http://www.arjanwrites.com/arjanwrites/2007/10/listen-to-new-l.html

http://www.myspace.com/lorrainemusic

djmartian, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've never been bothered to delve into DM much aside from some of the singles and Violator, so I'm going to discount them.

PSB live in the past few years v NO live in the past few years clinches it for me.

PSB are still fine showmen, while Bernard and Hooky make me cringe to watch (beer belly dancing and yelping flanked by bassist lunging at the audience from the edge of the stage).

Also, Intropsective is a great album.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

gukbe, stop discounting and start immersing! there's a world of listening pleasure there. wd suggest starting with "music for the masses" but geir will shout at me for that.

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

and you're right: NO are something of an embarrassment these days (even the arguing is cringeworthy), but i am prepared to overlook that because ... well, they're new order, and they are still arguably gods. just about.

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've tried every now and again over the years, but it hasn't worked out just yet. I'll give it another go at some point. (this is when Fopp would have been handy)

and you're right: NO are something of an embarrassment these days (even the arguing is cringeworthy), but i am prepared to overlook that because ... well, they're new order, and they are still arguably gods. just about

tough decisions call for desperate criteria though. i considered weighing the case for both using their collective remixes, but it was difficult. 80's NO remixes are slightly better than 80's PSB remixes, but both are generally excellent. 90's thru today PSB remixes are far better than the NO ones of the same period, but PSB have released a lot more, etc...

all too difficult to really decide, but I still think PSB edge out NO.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

i must admit, i was surprised by my immediate kneejerk NO response, given that i've spent so much of the past four years slagging off all their new stuff ;)

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well, this is an interesting divide.

1. Depeche Mode
2. PSB
3. New Order

I like all three, but I didn't even hestitate when it came to putting them in order.

John Justen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've only had limited exposure to each band (I have best-ofs for NO and PSBs), but from what I've heard I'd rate New Order as the best. PSBs aren't far behind, and they have songs that easily match the best of NO, but some of their output doesn't appeal to me at all. As for DM I've only heard some of "Violater" and it was OK-ish, but I didn't like Gahan's vocals.

Duane Barry, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

xpost - but you're wrong about the new stuff, grimly!

I think NO are pretty much the same as they've ever been : fantastic in the studio and hit or miss live. Sure Barney's woots and dancing is kind of embarrasing, but no more or less than back in early 80's when he sometimes used to take the stage so pissed he could barely stand. Actually the autocue that he's been using for the last 5 or so years is pretty embarrassing.

Of course it's not the same without Gill pushing the buttons.

Dr.C, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

i saw both recent tours for PSB and NO and have to disagree with Gukbe. i'm not sure if you saw the last PSB tour but that was embarrassing. the backup dancers, the pathetic stage set, the "press play on the Lp version" renditions of the songs. everything about it was cheap and off-putting to me. i did get to hear Heart though, so that was positive.

New Order, on the other hand, were as good in 05 as a band as they've ever been live. i'm not saying if i had my choice i'd choose to see an 05 show, but as far as technique (!) goes, the band were on top form.

New Order as a whole have always had some cringe-inducing moments. no band has meant more to me than New Order though. you make excuses for the things you love and i've got millions of excuses for New Order. i love all 3 of the bands in this poll, but for me it comes down to emotions and memories. New Order provides the stongest and most dear of both.

brotherlovesdub, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

John, did you see the Violator poll?

HI DERE, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

I thought Waiting for the Siren's Call was mostly a dud. Even when they're still writing great songs, like "Krafty", the lyrics are almost too awful to ignore.

"They've got violence, wars and killing too
All shrunk down in a two-foot tube
But out there the world is a beautiful place
With mountains, lakes and the human race"

I enjoyed the recent PSB tours (both with the cube and without), but mostly because Neil and Chris were still class. Might have been the crowds influencing me as well, as NO attracted the same crowd as the Charlatans (one very unfortunate gig experience).

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 15:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

Let's not start on the lyrics :) They are what they are.

But I think they were better live back in the era 81-85 when it was a different set every night, prototypes of new songs performed before they were fully written, and learning how to use the new technology on the fly.

They sounded great in 2005, but you pretty much knew what they were going to play before the gig (i.e. what Roger Lyons has already programmed in for them.) I gotta say that Phil miming some keyboard parts was pretty disappointing. And then there's the fuckin' autocue!

Still the best band ever though. PSB are a very great singles band. DM are totally worthless.

Dr.C, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

I thought Waiting for the Siren's Call was mostly a dud. Even when they're still writing great songs, like "Krafty", the lyrics are almost too awful to ignore.

You're forgetting how beautiful the melody wrapped around those lyrics are, and that's why I love New Order.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

what is it you dislike so much about DM? i'm surprised and a little shocked ;)

Of course it's not the same without Gill pushing the buttons ... But I think they were better live back in the era 81-85 when it was a different set every night, prototypes of new songs performed before they were fully written, and learning how to use the new technology on the fly

OTM in a variety of ways (qv the lengthy ranting about this i've done passim).

as for "krafty": actually, i think that's a wonderful lyric. but that's barney for you :)

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

(the first bit of that was an xpost to dr C, obviously!)

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

IIRC, anything that is tinged with goth that isn't Joy Division is worthless in Dr. C's eyes.

HI DERE, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

You're forgetting how beautiful the melody wrapped around those lyrics are, and that's why I love New Order.

The problem is I'm not forgetting the melody. It's amazing and one of the best singles of that year, but that lyric nearly destroys the experience. It is one of the more maddening aspects of recent NO.

Killers "Mr Brightside" TWD remix one of the better NO songs of recent years.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

of "recent" NO?

off the top of my head:

"well we had a party at our hotel last night
it ended up in an awful fight
my friend left me and my heart too
i hope i don't end up like you

oh you know what i mean
oh yes you do"

i think low-life was when it became obvious that barney's vignettes were as frequently a miss as a hit. still: when he gets it right, he gets it bang fucking on: "oh how i cannot bear the thought of you" being a perfect example.

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

I kind of don't see why "Krafty" gets singled out for rapturous melodic praise when the verse doesn't move away from the first three notes of "Three Blind Mice"; pretty much every other song on WFTSC is more interesting.

HI DERE, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

agh these threads.

i love new order and the pet shop boys. i can't justify going either way without feeling some level of guilt.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

xpost to Dan

Well thanks for that Dan, but I like the Cure up to about Disintegration at least. And I love practically everything that Siouxsie has ever done - and there's none more goth at times.

Nah - I'll try and articulate what it is about DM that renders them useless, when I have a bit of time to think. For now let's just say, they don't belong in the same company as NO or PSBs because they've never done anything that just fucking well wallops you over the head emotionally, and leaves you gasping for air. (The first 30 seconds of It's A Sin, the intro to Ceremony, fragements of lyrics "for these last few days/leave me alone". DM are just so...earthbound and dull in comparison. Gahan is a big part of the problem too.

Dr.C, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

when the verse song doesn't move away from the first three notes of "Three Blind Mice" being suspiciously like "deep sleep" by red turns to.

^ fixed

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yes, Dan OTM about Krafty. But WFTSC is still a marvellous record.

Dr.C, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well thanks for that Dan, but I like the Cure up to about Disintegration at least. And I love practically everything that Siouxsie has ever done - and there's none more goth at times.

Okay I'm very confused because I thought you were the person who said everything Siouxsie did after The Scream was worthless goth nonsense?!!?!? Who am I confusing you with?

HI DERE, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

For now let's just say, they don't belong in the same company as NO or PSBs because they've never done anything that just fucking well wallops you over the head emotionally, and leaves you gasping for air.

Last minute of Enjoy The Silence to thread.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

DM is basically fun early singles, and Enjoy teh Silence which is sublime.
NO are tiny-teeny fraction ahead of PSB. just. today

Alan, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

I kind of don't see why "Krafty" gets singled out for rapturous melodic praise when the verse doesn't move away from the first three notes of "Three Blind Mice"

I don't know about rapturous praise; I argued that you can't separate the lyrics from the wonderful melody.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

xpost - I dunno Dan. I've loved Tinderbox, Kaleidoscope, JuJu etc since they all came out. It's true though that The Scream is the best.

That's not to say that I didn't say that. I do talk bollocks as you know.

Dr.C, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

See also on ILM:

Taking Sides: Pet Shop Boys vs. New Order
Taking Sides: Pet Shop Boys vs. New Order

(circa 2004)

stephen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

New Order, on the other hand, were as good in 05 as a band as they've ever been live.

The New Order live DVD from like 2001 is absolutely embarrassing. The performances from the early '80s are great. I don't want to see Hooky and Bernard "rocking out."

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 18:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

New Order's peaks are higher, PSBs more consistent. Both amongst the greats.

As for DM, until I got the internet I had no idea anyone actually liked them anymore. I'm guessing that none of the fans above are from the UK, too portentous to be taken seriously at home. ("Just can't get enough" was good though).

bidfurd, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 21:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

too portentous to be taken seriously at home

You people love Coldplay. Gimme a better excuse.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm guessing that none of the fans above are from the UK, too portentous to be taken seriously at home

i am an out-and-proud UK DM fan.

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm guessing that none of the fans above are from the UK, too portentous to be taken seriously at home.

Why won't people let the "portentous American" stereotype die?

John Justen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm surprised so many people dislike Depeche Mode and/or think they're goth.

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

("Just can't get enough" was good though).

a friend of mine, a brit who has been a DM fan since back in the day, switched this song off in disgust when we were driving once. i was surprised by extreme dislike of that particular song.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

but that's a great song :-(

stephen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

i'm going to try to put something in Dan's head

omar little, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

ALL DAY ALL DAY
ALL DAY ALL DAY

omar little, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

(all day, all day) watch them all fall down
(all day, all day) domino dancing
(all day, all day) watch them all fall down
(all day, all day) domino dancing

omar little, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

omar little would like the pet shop boys. teh gay.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

o indeed

omar little, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:50 (7 years ago) Permalink


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