Search & Destroy: Sun Ra

I saw them do a show of mostly Disney songs in Philadelphia many years back, when June Tyson was still around, and it was great, but the Leo CD didn't work for me. (They also did a smaller scale Disney tribute this past summer, but it wasn't as impressive as that earlier show.)

Shakey, I don't know if I've heard those recordings.

I'll see if I can dig up that tape and make a copy for you if you like.

Shakey, it's not sound quality: it's just that sometimes I feel the live spectacle doesn't translate well into merely a sound recording. For instance, I've heard more than one live recording where the opening "space chord" sort of chaotic blowing session just gets tedious. Or, the goofier end of their material somehow comes across as too goofy, where I don't think it would bother me in concert. I don't have a turn-table either.

I'm technologically very limited.

Do you do orgies?

Sorry for late notice. I wasn't paying much attention.

strange strings is pretty incredible, a real bizarre one off: I was thinking that Ra heard ornette coleman's Fiddle playing on 'Live at the golden circle vol II' and decide to try that with the arkestra.

It's prob one of the few times that Ra got into total free improv but then you have marshall allen (?) gargling through a megaphone too and its almost designed to throw your bearings off once you get the 'idea'. Its funny and uncomfortable at the same time.

'My brother the wind' is kind of like that but with Ra's Moog playing, there's some sax, percussion, flute but Ra gets sounds out of it that are a true wonder but its just the way he improvises on it that really put me on the edge of my seat. I like the way he engulfs the accoustic instruments in electronics and the way he uses to almost bully these players into keeping up with him.

'Lanquidity' is sci-fi funk: 'accessible' music I find its a hard trick to pull off for someone who has been 'out there' but its pretty good. if you're looking for lots of improv or jazz you won't find it but a melding of the two with some good excellent moments.

Listening to it now: I guess I would agree with you in the sense that you don't have lots of Arkestra members improvising at the same time, as you sometimes do.

No, actually the Arkestra had been messing about with stringed instruments and various exotic sonorities since the 1959-60 (if not before) - for instance "Interplanetary Music" on "We Travel the Spaceways" et al. As usual, Sun Ra was ahead of the game but because he didn't release records in any great quantity till 1965-66, no-one outside of fellow musicians and NYC/Chicago jazz buffs had ever heard him.

but ok I was just trying to make a link between ornette's violin playing and ra there and place them in the 'not very musical' thing that free jazzers do and which i like.

I'm sure they'd be flattered by this description.

(I forgot to mention: the piano record is from the 70's, and those who have heard it are saying very positive things about it.)

It's laid back 70's stuff with Ra on an odd swirly cosmic electric keyboard, kind of accessible, but then you get taken by surprise by odd bits of soloing on the horns, sometimes very long sustained tones, sometimes harsh outbursts. The rhythms are a little more regular than usual, though there's usually a counter-rhythm just around the corner waiting to complicate things.

Too much Jibber Jabber, not enough music.

the verdict is SEARCH.

especially searchable is vol. 2 (they're sold seperately). it starts out with a very mellow, quiet introduction called "friendly galaxy #2" with june tyson and some other fellows alternating on chants/calls with the band tuning up and stretching out in a trad/bluesy style. this segues into "spontaneous simplicity" which has some stunning percussion, everyone rattling away on shakers and congas while two drummers play rolls in the background, and the band sketching lovely, optimistic figures over it. it's actually very reminiscent of "prince of peace" or "summun ummun bukmun", makes you wonder if Sun Ra caught some Pharoah Sanders shows in france.

then we get versions of "world of the lightening" and "journey through the outer darkness" (as part of the "black myth" suite). "outer darkness" is the really gnarly synthesizer solo from "concert for comet kohoutek", here it's teamed up with some poetry from june tyson.

there's a sense of narrative that's implied or hinted at in ra's work. here, the excellent pacing makes the narrative definite - it's a space adventure with a beginning, a middle and an end. probably one of a few albums i have that deserve to be called "a trip".

(i'll probably pick up "cosmos" this weekend when i go to get the new roy ayers, unless anybody can recommend an alternate quiet/mellow sun ra set from the 70s)

That 'Concert from the Black Forest' circa 1974 (?) with the 15- minute synth freakout, that's great

this is the same as the "it's after the end of the world" album i keep bringing up. and i have to admit, yeah, the synth freakout is pretty astounding (even if the rest is pretty weak and there are other all-around probs. with the reissue). i am sort of sorry i let it go, the white noise bit is keerazy.

those really are my favorites. they've got aspects of everything he does.

will have to search for 'black forest'.

I almost bought La Nuits de la Fondation Maeght, last week I guess, but I wanted to try some new things. I mostly like Assif Tsahar/Cooper-Moore's America, one of the things I picked up instead. Also, I'm listening a lot to Borah Bergman's Meditations for Piano, though I'm having trouble making up my mind about it. (It does make good, if brooding, background music, but I'm afraid Bergman wouldn't be thrilled with that observation.)

is the US version of Cosmos a 24-bit remaster? (i'm an audiophile i'm a tool)

i wish they had more band pictures on sun ra albums, i think maybe you can learn things about the album before listening by looking at their costumes, a la the message in herbie's shirts

I don't agree. I don't like it as much as I initially did. (Maybe with Ra it is a bad sign when I immediately like one of his CDs?) But I'm not aware of any other Sun Ra CD with that sound, so to me it seems to justify its own existence by having a distinctive style. If anything, it might be too accessible though, for vahid.

I keep waiting for someone who knows enough about Sun Ra and Miles Davis to do a comparison of their work in the 70's. In a loose way, they were doing something similar--I think. (I'm not really into Miles, so don't know that material.)

Yeah, did he ever! He was a big fan. Only, I can't think of an album that was entirely comprised of that stuff. But on the early records, he often threw in an exotica-styled track or two, like the title cut on Sun Song or "Paradise" on Sound of Joy. All those early 50s records are great, even though some slate them for being too trad big-band like or some nonsense like that. Couldn't be farther from the truth. Actually, you should look for the record called The Futuristic Sound of Sun Ra. I think it has been packaged under a number of titles, but that was the original title. It's on CD on Denon. I think it was a quintet date; it's got a few tracks of cocktail-derived, chill-out kind of sounds that the band of course warps slightly in its way. It doesn't have the guys cawing like tropical birds as on say a Baxter record, but the vibe is there..

Yeah, I think my problem with Cosmos was that after owning like 30 Ra records it just didn't take me someplace strange or anything. But yeah, as I said, certainly not a bad record, just not one I'd start with.