The Beatles: Rock Band

no-one complains about playing Pro Evolution not being like actually playing football (soccer), I bring the same reasoning to Guitar Hero games.

Of course they're counter-intuitive! Guitar play is nothing like guitar play; it's harder if you actually play guitar, because your habits will be non-applicable and confusing. Actual drummers screw up because they intuitively want to play the actual drum hits in the song and not the simplified game chart. It's kind of weird that people always point out how different these things are from actual instruments, because, you know, duh; I'm not sure anyone thinks there's that much relation, least of all players. But the drumming and singing are satisfying in terms of at least being the same concept as the real thing, as opposed to guitar/bass.

these games are total fun, who cares about all the other stuff.

won't somebody think of the children

What I do wonder is, like, sometimes you see some kid on Youtube playing Guitar Hero on the insane hours-of-learning levels, and it's hard not to think whoah, it would have been less fun and easy, but you could have maybe actually learned to play some real guitar in all that time.

On the time wasted scale, becoming Guitar Hero wizard and actual guitar wizard are probably closer together than they are to, say, learning Portuguese.

Maybe if you live in Portugal.

What if there are too many real guitarists in the world as it?

Seu Jorge Hero?

My guess would be that becoming a GH wizard maybe equates, time-and-effort-wise, to developing kind of a basic but solid guitar competence? Actually learning just has a much tougher, less fun, and less constantly rewarding slope to it.

i've wondered if there will be pro musicians who got their start playing these games as a kid, and if they'll be identifiable by quirks in their technique, the flipside of the games being counter-intuitive for practicing musicians. at the very least they might hoist their instruments more often.

i'd love to see a rock band cover band where everyone scats, shreds and drum rolls at the same time in the middle of a track.

i'd love to see a rock band cover band where everyone scats, shreds and drum rolls at the same time in the middle of a track.

Sadly, I believe that it'll be awhile before Rock Band: Can is released.

Rock Band is really only satisfying in terms of scratching "I'm a MUSICIAN" itches if you sing or drum.

That is very true. But it also obviously makes it more appealing for the majority of gamers, as they are indeed non-musicians after all.

The whammy bar function on it is pretty accurate, plus it gives you points for 'showmanship' (pulling back on the guitar). It's really more than just pushing buttons at the right times.

yeah, I think a lot of the satisfactions of getting good at the guitar bit are still similar to the satisfactions of actually playing music. the satisfactions of lots of physical skills, really, including video games, which is the whole point. learning to do something slightly complicated to get a desired result; being pleased with yourself when you can finally pull it off; getting good enough that you can confidently nail it and even throw some flair in there ... this game just draws a line between executing a skill to play a real instrument and executing a skill to make music come out of a game console, and makes the learning/reward curve a hell of a lot more friendly.

It takes a LOT less time to learn to play Guitar Hero on Expert than to be even mildly proficient at playing guitar (speaking as someone who has worked at both).

Some context for people who have never played one of these games: To go from medium to expert on guitar (maybe not on the hardest songs, but on some of the difficult ones) takes about 2-3 weeks of a couple hours a day. By comparison, if you're actually learning to play guitar, at that point you can... what? Play a bar chord?

xpost - I mean, I play guitar, and there are certainly moments with these games where I get into the groove of playing something a little challenging, and feel a pretty similar satisfaction as actually playing: like aww, yeah, I nailed that, cool. (also moments where I'm like "screw you, that's an arpeggio, why are you making me move my fingers for it, I wanna play drums again.")

xpost - I'll totally take your word on that, Mordy, though remember I'm talking like kids YouTubing themselves at like INSANE-O impossible levels of Guitar Heroism. I'm guessing the biggest time difference would be the entry point, since as soon as you pick up a game controller you can work it effectively, whereas most people's hard start with guitar is how to even hold and manipulate it physically to make a decent sound in the first place

I dunno about proficient but every now and then I'll think about making an instructional guitar video that can teach you from nothing to playing blitzkrieg bop in about 10 minutes.

re: bar chord (about 2 minutes into the video)

haha NB I'd consider knowing major and minor barre chords (roots on E and A) and solid strumming technique to be a pretty solid start on guitar, though!

I learned the "correct" alternate strumming and Johnny would be sad to see anyone play blitzkrieg bop that way, so I say let the kids strum however they want. Also, truth be told, would probably stick to power chords instead of bar chords (maybe I mean the one and not the other)?

haha hey, I'm not trying to suggest all-downstrokes isn't a valid component of "solid strumming technique"

Of course The Beatles Rock Band will not be a cultural watershed to the same extent that The Beatles themselves were. Guitar Hero and Singstar were both probably more important cultural watersheds than Rock Band has ever been, as Rock Band is basically just using those two inventions to create a whole. And the only thing new about Beatles Rock Band from a gaming point of view is the addition of harmony vocals, which is interesting and nice, but not more of a watershed than a lot of games have been before.

But that doesn't mean the game will be a failure. I am quite sure it will be a huge seller, maybe even culturally important in turning older generations into gamers. What is more interesting is whether the kids will rediscover The Beatles to the same extent Guitar Hero made them rediscover Iron Maiden and AC/DC. The next months will show.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Thursday, September 3, 2009 1:58 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OMG, Geir absolutely nails it!

As both a 'rock band drummer' and a beatles fan I have to admit this sounds like it will have the most boring and monotonous drum charts ever. Same could be said for the guitar charts. The beatles were clearly brilliant pop composers but none of them were considered virtuosos in their respective instruments.
You don't have to shell out those amounts of money to get karaoke versions of the beatles catalogue.

whether the kids will rediscover The Beatles to the same extent Guitar Hero made them rediscover Iron Maiden and AC/DC.

oh Christ, no wonder they're so fucking moronic.

^Apparently you've never listened to Maiden or read their lyrics?

(Not that I don't think kids today are moronic).

The beatles were clearly brilliant pop composers but none of them were considered virtuosos in their respective instruments.

Sad Paul is sad at this sentence.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/MMPH/B72917~Paul-McCartney-Posters.jpg

See WTF IS HE DOING WHILE GEORGE IS TAXING THE STREET?

how much money is a full system with all the rockband gear and software compared to inflation-adjusted neo-geo? cause back in the day only rich kids got to have a neo geo.

― Philip Nunez, Thursday, September 3, 2009 5:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest

Neo Geo debuted at $600 in 1990, which is equal to $976.36 in 2008 dollars.
Incidentally, Super NES debuted at $200 in the same year, which is equal to $325.45 in 2008 dollars.

Beatles Rock Band Premium Bundle for all console systems (which includes game and all the controllers) is $249.99.

A+++ for both Q & A.

Agree with Adam that Paul McCartney is indeed a great bass player. Surely no Jaco Pastorius, but still an innovative and technically great instrumentalist. I would also say George Harrison developed into a quite good guitar player, but maybe not so much during his Beatles years. Ringo is not a bad drummer either, in spite of what George Martin thought. None of them is the best in his respective field, but those (and not John to quite the same extent) were all quite good at their instrument.

Still, it is as composers, arrangers and, to some extent, harmony singers that The Beatles were so unique that a lot of people consider them the greatest thing ever.

paul is such a better bass player than jaco.

What I do wonder is, like, sometimes you see some kid on Youtube playing Guitar Hero on the insane hours-of-learning levels, and it's hard not to think whoah, it would have been less fun and easy, but you could have maybe actually learned to play some real guitar in all that time.

― nabisco, Thursday, September 3, 2009 10:54 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but jjusten says at his store most of the young kids that buy stuff are actually buying guitars because of rock band/GH, if anything i bet there will be more kids playing guitar because of it rather than less...

also to put it in perspective....if a real guitar was a rock band guitar there would be 144 buttons and 6 strum bars. that's not counting the physical issues like actually fretting and picking correctly, etc.

Wait, Kraftwerk should do a Synth Hero.

The arrangements are very simple but you have to get it PERFECTLY on the beat. It trains you to become a tempo robot.

This would be invaluable to musicians EVERYWHERE

The arrangements are very simple but you have to get it PERFECTLY on the beat. It trains you to become a tempo robot.

So, if you decide to play against the computer, you will always be bound to lose? ;)

yeah I know, we talked about that stuff -- and yeah, I have zero doubt that kids are getting into actual instruments through these things; I even sometimes hope Rock Band turns out to make drummers easier to find for young people who want to start bands -- but it's still pretty obviously weird to look at intense plastic-guitar skill and think about learning effort; I think this about a lot of game things I'm good at, like I sorta wish I'd spent more of that time learning a thing itself

ah yeah i get it...

we're all wasting our precious time in this earth to some degree i guess.

xpost - maybe more specifically I think that about most people who are so amazing at a video game that they can post videos of themselves playing on YouTube and blow people's minds with it -- like hey, you have developed awesome heroic skill at something that does not really translate. (which is fine, I'm not knocking how people spend their time, it's just interesting)

if a real guitar was a rock band guitar there would be 144 buttons and 6 strum bars

I meant to post earlier plz plz plz someone make this

I bet the next Rock Band controller will be the keyboard. Four buttons for the left hand, and four for the right, or something similiar. Then we can finally have B. Springsteen and the E Street Band Rock Band game! Or the Rock Band version of Suicide, lol.

x post

http://images.mix.com.au/2009/01/14/105196/MIXMUSIC_crazyguitars_01.jpg

you know one thing I find interesting about the game is the sight-reading aspect -- there are occasionally moments where it can bypass your brain, and you wind up playing something fast/complicated without consciously thinking about what's on the screen. (this is most fun with drums, where you can't consciously "read" the fill or change on the screen, but between seeing it and the feel of the song your body just does it perfectly anyway.)

I don't play "real" guitar but in Rock Band on "hard" or "expert" guitar solos I get that a lot; also playing bass in Rock Band, when you find the groove, can be like this.

It'll definitely be interesting to see how well they can separate 3 instruments + vocals on songs recorded on 2-track tape!

it works perfectly, pretty impressive job

"Ghost rider... motorcycle heeee ro!" (200 points)
"mayybe mayybe mayybe he been speakin the truth!" (183 points)

xxxpost Nabisco: I'm learning RockBand bass right now, finally graduated to Medium, and ever now and then I get into that weird zen mode where I don't even notice that I can play that hard part finally...but what's worse is when you realize, HAY! I CAN DO IT!! then you fail. Thinking is bad in rockband.

Mr Vegemite checked out the Beatles Rockband tent at Outside Lands last weekend, I walked in just in time to catch him do Helter Skelter with a bunch of other eager doodz. Graphics are cool as hell, I really love the animation...and I am dying dying dying to sing that stuff. It looks like right fun!

Also I read that instead of unlocking new venues, as you progress through the catalog they'll unlock easter eggs like rare photos, and Christmas singles, cool stuff like that. I'm excited about it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb-IA-HF08A

On the 'guitar' level on I Am the Walrus you actually play the strings part which is pretty damn cool!