2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

I'm not sure you guys are entirely reading me. "Cultivating the exact sentiment his supporters have been expressing" = precisely what I'm saying seems to have been his takeaway from the 2000 primary; I'm also saying that most presidential candidates get to have their smears kept on the level of insinuation by people at their events, whereas he has the current problem that those supporters will take those smears a step farther than is allowable in polite political conversation.

Also I don't think it's a stretch to say that (a) even McCain's weaving, hyper-negative approach lately is a far cry from the sorts of statements he's been forced to step away from here, and (b) his personality seems (to me, anyway) to be that of someone who would much rather be winning on "statesmanship" and "substance" and not flinging smears from a losing position. (I think that's anyone's personality, yes?)

I mean, hell, no matter how much it's your own fault for dredging it up, there is no candidate in the universe who wants to have people at his events say things so far beyond the realms of substance that he actually has to step back and defend his opponent for the sake of seeming halfway decent and non-evil! It is hard to imagine more annoying positions to be put in by your own supporters.

haha this is nuts, none of these people are ever responsible for anything...

To: pissant

I can’t believe that you would post such useless drivel here.

What do you expect McCain to say that he is a dangerous person and no one should trust himor let people decide for themselves?

Also it is being reported that the O is putting ringers at the Repub rallys yelling hang him, off with his head, and other such comments.

Please increase your meds.

102 posted on 10/10/2008 4:29:28 PM PDT by stockpirate (US Congress just created the right to own slaves, problem is, we are the slaves.)
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so yr saying mccain would rather being winning than hanging out w/angry weirdos xp

Nabisco, I think you're just giving McCain too much credit. He's still running the ads that inspired this level of discourse among his constituents. Were his ads as flagrant as some of the comments being shouted at rallies? No. But they were akin and a clear antecedent. Now, maybe he's horrified about what he has wrought, but he clearly wrought it. The problem isn't about whether he's a good person at heart - it's that he's failing to take responsibility for his own actions. IMHO.

but (b) happens to intersect with (c) his only hope of winning anyway, and i think the latter is motivating this cease-and-desist. from your first post i thought you were suggesting he was doing this primarily because he's a decent guy, which i don't agree is his motivation, even if he is.

Umm that all makes sense but I don't see what possible connection it has to what I said or how much credit I'm giving him?

xp - And in case I'm not being clear enough about 2000, what I'm saying is that I think he went through the primary then with a sense that extreme negativity was (a) distasteful to him as a victim of it, and (b) not something that fit his brand as a statesmanlike, bipartisan, maverick, straight-talker, etc. ... and I think he came out of the primary possibly thinking fuck it, that is what works and how things get done.

problem is, we are the slaves :(

Glenn Greenwald on this very subject.

UPDATE II: The McCain campaign is obviously reading the same polls and reaching the same conclusions. Read Ana Marie Cox’s amazing account of how McCain — after stoking these sentiments for more than a week — suddenly and repeatedly tried to restrain and even admonish today’s lynch mob in Minnesota (h/t Andrew Sullivan). But look at what the crowd is saying in their questions to McCain as a result of what the McCain/Palin campaign has done (“I’m scared of Barack Obama… he’s an Arab terrorist…”). McCain repeatedly interrupted questions like this to say that Obama is a “decent family man” and to insist that disagreements with Obama be “respectful,” and Cox — an unrepentant, tire-swinging McCain lover if ever there was one — generously says: “I think (McCain) means it.

Right. He spent the last seven days whipping up the Right in this country into an unprecedentedly ugly frenzy, and just as polls show that he is falling further behind and the tactics are backfiring (and as the former GOP Michigan Governor and long-time McCain supporter condemns McCain for these tactics and William F. Buckley’s Republican son endorses Obama, citing his radically changed behavior and his choice of Palin), McCain abruptly and flamboyantly condemns such sentiments. Whatever else that is, genuine isn’t it.

“Puck you Palin!”

Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to have Sarah Palin drop the puck at a Philadelphia Flyers game? (Of course, there’s also the question of why she’s spending so much time in Philadelphia, but that’s an issue for another day.)

Philadelphia sports fans are legendary, and not in a good way. They booed — and threw snowballs at — Santa Claus, for God’s sake. Santa Claus. They celebrated when Dallas Cowboys star Michael Irvin was injured. Their own mascot couldn’t escape fans’ wrath when he dropped a foul ball recently.

So it seemed sort of inevitable that something would happen to make this photo op less than perfect. And now one Web site, PuckYouPalin.com, has stepped in to try to make sure that happens — they’re encouraging fans to chant the name of the site when she gets on the ice.

She just better hope fans don’t remember that she almost jogged around their city recently while wearing New York Rangers gear.

I expect not very good things from Lakeville, MN. HSNGS? What say y'all?

I really hope the Freepers are right and Palin becomes the nominee in 2012. That will transform this year from a simple Democratic victory to a total salting of the Republican earth. If Palin becomes the face of the party because of this election, I can't see them recovering for a long while.

P.S. I'd just like to reaffirm the core sentiment I started here with: You can analyze or politicize motives all day, but it's just plain decent of McCain to draw back from crazy-hateful rhetoric coming from his crowds. (I.e., motives do not alter the decency to me.)

eh mccain is a weak candidate in an election where the fundamentals are way in the other guys favor - his whole maverick brand was a fabrication that he had no problem dropping for a longshot chance at winning

im sure hed rather be sitting in a nice cushy chair while everyone feeds him grapes - but wouldnt we all

the wingnut notion that Palin "energized" the McCain campaign doesn't really seem to square with the polls, does it?

This McCain town hall is so amusing. His supporters insisting Obama is a "terrorist" and an "A-rab", and McCain getting booed when he says Obama is not.

the wingnut notion that Palin "energized" the McCain campaign doesn't really seem to square with the polls, does it?

Not even the polls, the ground campaigns! 538's stories lately just completely bury the idea that there's any comparison between the two campaigns on that front. There's no energy there.

genie out of bottle, etc

I really hope the Freepers are right and Palin becomes the nominee in 2012. That will transform this year from a simple Democratic victory to a total salting of the Republican earth. If Palin becomes the face of the party because of this election, I can't see them recovering for a long while.

― Mordy, Friday, October 10, 2008 7:17 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont agree. the republican grassroots is where the energy is, ie the ppl who actually get other ppl to show up at the polls. i think it will be a closer race w/ a christian-y candidate, not a bigger landslide. she can easily moderate a bunch of her positions. dont count out the next nixon, politics is full of epitaphs that came out too soon

that said i still think the GOP is pretty fucked for more than 4 years, assuming the dems dont manage to fuck things up too terribly

i think huckabee has a better chance than palin though

I don't think either has a chance in hell.

I think the problem with Palin is not her positions at this point, but it's actually her. I don't think the stain of this campaign is going to wash away easily.

If Palin does somehow become the face of the GOP, you're about to see the quickest split and subsequent formation of a serious third party in all of American political history.

haha but Alex you live in the blue-est 7x7 square on the map. Ralph Nader is our Mike Huckabee.

XP ^^ This was what I was thinking. I think Palin as the head of the Republican party would be unpalatable for a number of Republicans. And Christian Evangelicals aren't a large enough voting block alone to establish a political majority. They require the people who Palin who chase off.

DAMN PALIN GUILTY Y'ALL!

If Palin does somehow become the face of the GOP, you're about to see the quickest split and subsequent formation of a serious third party in all of American political history.

― Johnny Fever, Friday, October 10, 2008 7:27 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

^^^^^^^^^

Download Branchflower report here:

http://media.adn.com/smedia/2008/10/10/16/Branchflowerreport.source.prod_affiliate.7.pdf

dl'ing ned you rule

breaking: palin abused authority

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Palin-Troopergate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Telling detail in the ADN story:

An investigation has concluded that Gov. Sarah Palin abused her power, according to a report just now unanimously released by the legislative council.

'Unanimously'? Try and spin 'partisan' on that!

omg

http://frontpage.americandaughter.com/images/maypole.jpg

NOW CAN WE HAVE A NEW ELECTION THRED?

What's the over-under on Palin dropping off the ticket because of this?

This completely, COMPLETELY backfired on Palin. I am honestly amazed.

This is shaping up to the most fun election in history. Can I get an amen?

http://www.objectmerch.com/ProductImages/amen-0005lg.gif

Seriously, when I first heard after she was named to be the candidate that initial blocks and stalls were happening, I was figuring they'd find a way to stretch it out. What they ended up doing was forcing everything front and center and rapidly undermining her political capital at home.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45097000/jpg/_45097116_32bd81d8-db05-4332-8416-4c2160bedb72.jpg
^abused by palin

this is why mccain should have chosen one of our lovely female republican senators from maine !

"Nailin' Palin 2: Abuse Of Authority"

Check this ADN blog for more on how it all went down today, details coming out, plus audio.

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/132527

in the unintentional irony dept, a fr33pr on o:

He’s a decent man that just happens to hang around the worst kind of radicals.

oh see i thought that was a link to the next election thread, JIMMY MOD

It's just a bummer this is happening at 9pm on a Friday night.

Mudflats bound to have more shortly:

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/

Andrew Halcro's already got some prime snark up earlier today:

http://www.andrewhalcro.com/the_blogger_on_the_grassy_knoll

It's just a bummer this is happening at 9pm on a Friday night.

Can't be helped. But how much is this plus the McCain climbdown *plus* the economy going to dominate Sunday talk show stuff? Should be amusing.

big ups to the Alaskan legislative crew

To Branchflower as well! Sounds like the dude went at it like the prosecutor he once was.