2008 USP(G)ET pt. II: counting the days to 2012 primary thread 1

Hannity couldn't even hold himself against two Ron Paul fans! (Remember that incident?)

no...? Limbaugh handles the public on a daily basis, Hannity may as well be a cardboard cut-out tho, he does not actually deal with people.

and you know I do feel empathy for people on occasion.

I was cryptic with my point. Yes, Limbaugh deals with the public daily, sure, but now he's the defacto go-to guy for the "Kill Him!" crowd... many poisons have hatched out amongst Republican supporters, and I'm not so sure Limbaugh wants inherit this much of that crowd, if that makes sense. It will jeopardize his career and hence his influence.

Hannity was tackled outside by two Ron Paul fans in the snow earlier this year on camera.

Hannity is just a more ESPN looking Tucker Carlson, basically. His cut-out ness is more obvious than ever. His embracing Palin is going to hurt him eventually.

mccain is a smart guy and i'm sure he's bummed that the type of people he'd actually like on a personal level are heading in droves to obamaworld; it's like some high-school popularity contest where he's trying to make up for his lack in numbers by assembling on his side all the big-toothed morons that he doesn't even like. and trying to pretend he doesn't care that hottie mcsmarts is on the other guy's side because, look here, i've got the exchange student who crapped himself once and also the kid who's allergic to his desk.

palin is indefensible. people claiming that she's in over her head & being manipulated & etc are falling into the same sexist trope that she sometimes rationally claims is being leveraged against her. i don't think any one would have the same amount of sympathy for a weak male candidate.

xp - And O'Reilly wins big time for interviewing Obama. You can hate O'Reilly and Murdoch, but they knew what they were doing.

You can analyze or politicize motives all day, but it's just plain decent of McCain to draw back from crazy-hateful rhetoric coming from his crowds. I respect that, and in his case I believe it's fundamentally genuine, especially after his experience in 2000. (I think a lot of his relationship with negative attacks in this campaign makes more sense given his experience in 2000 -- i.e., he strikes me as someone who doesn't care for them but came away from that primary with the lesson that maybe that's just what it takes to win.)

I also think any smart person whose soul hasn't completely evaporated would find it really painful and frustrating to be losing a race and trying to make sensible arguments and have supporters coming at you with nutso statements that in no way help your cause -- not least because you'd start to get the feeling that even your own supporters aren't really listening to the substance of what you're saying, and have been lured there by other whistles entirely

a good old fashioned nabisco OTM xpost

and trying to pretend he doesn't care that hottie mcsmarts is on the other guy's side because, look here, i've got the exchange student who crapped himself once and also the kid who's allergic to his desk.

lolz post o the day

not least because you'd start to get the feeling that even your own supporters aren't really listening to the substance of what you're saying, and have been lured there by other whistles entirely

this is a guy who considers being a POW a qualification for being President

how many fucking people in Iraq are dead because of this jackass

yeah i figure mccain could have easily continued just issuing press releases condemning the vitriol but this rather direct "stfu everyone" to that crowd was a good move and i think shows that he's likely the most decent person in the core group of his campaign. not saying much imo, but still...

This is a lot of fun to read:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2102683/posts

no it is not

well, i've been enjoying it

oh wait yes it is! sry i just shutdown seeing a freepr link

are we allowed to link 2 fr33p3rs?

nutso statements that in no way help your cause

i really think that if it was politically expedient he would continue encouraging the crowds to hate-vent. but it makes no sense on any front to let that continue, so he shut it down. i agree that he's probably personally uncomfortable with it on some level, but i don't think that that's the driving force here.

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r332/mccainlist/amigo-illegals.jpg wau

Palin/Jindhal!

Palin/Nugent!!!

BossLady/Pissant!!! LOL! ;)

do u fr33p

"If Hussein wins all of us who post on Free Republic will, by 2012, be living in a gulag somewhere in upstate North Dakota."

1) nabisco otm, seems more genuine than even his own attacks somehow (but this is from An European, so I know him less & have seen & heard less at length plus ads etc obv).

2) anyway, now having chuckles with mental images of McCain going into booth, looking around furtively and pulling Obama lever.

^^^^ I have imagined (2) happening before

"If Hussein wins all of us who post on Free Republic will, by 2012, be living in a gulag somewhere in upstate North Dakota."

One more reason to vote for Obama!

KEYWORDS: loser; mccain; mcqueeg; mcrino

which fr33pr u blap

now now, mental retards need support and professional care, not incarceration

x-post

i really think that if it was politically expedient he would continue encouraging the crowds to hate-vent

I think we may be talking about one of these areas where political expedience and basic decency intersect. These are on-mic comments at his events: there is no plus to a candidate nodding attentively while people say extreme or objectionable things about his opponent. Yes, part of this is that it would alienate swing voters by associating the candidate with an angry, rabid fringe and making him/her look of them. But -- and this is particularly important given McCain's reputation -- it makes the candidate look opportunistic, unsavory, unfair, divisive, slick, and just plain lacking in basic decency and reasonableness, way beyond the level where candidates can get away with those things. Those are qualities McCain has been explicitly selling about himself.

I mean, the most expedient turn-out for McCain would obviously be if he could encourage people to hate-vent in a way that never slipped over into people saying anything so objectionable that he needed to step back from it. I almost feel bad for him that he can't get that, because it's what's afforded to every presidential candidate who's not running against, say, a xenophobe's nightmare.

also think any smart person whose soul hasn't completely evaporated would find it really painful and frustrating to be losing a race and trying to make sensible arguments and have supporters coming at you with nutso statements that in no way help your cause -- not least because you'd start to get the feeling that even your own supporters aren't really listening to the substance of what you're saying, and have been lured there by other whistles entirely

― nabisco, Friday, October 10, 2008 7:36 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

have u been following the campaign at all - mccain hasnt made any attempt at sensible arguments in a long time - he has in fact been cultivating the exact sentiment his supporters have been expressing - harping that obama hangs out w/terrorists that we dont know him that hes dangerous

he been facing crowds like this for a while now and only stood up to them once the media started calling him on it

more like broseph six pack

Yeah I don't think nabisco your argument is born out by the reality of McCain's campaigning.

I do.

To: word_warrior_bob
Poor, poor vanity, pissant. piss-poor. I’m surprised at you. It’s the candidate’s job to take the high road, he does it often enough to tick us off granted, but this kind of vanity is just ridiculous.

McCain attacked the crowd, and protected Oboma. A smart man would have attacked the RHETERIC, rather than the Republicans McCain ASSUMED were doing it.
The "angry crowd" could have just as easily been democrat activists attempting to make the Republican crowd look "racist."
Think about it. What Republican in his right mind would scream "Kill him! Hang him" in front of a dozen TV cameras?
129 posted on Fri Oct 10 19:33:40 2008 by concerned about politics ("Get thee behind me, Liberal")

The Democrats have been planting people in the crowds to yell out "terrorist" and "muslim!"

multixp:

Holy shit this is the first time I've ever clicked on a freerepublic link, and, uh, I cannot honestly say "wtf" because things from there have been quoted on here, but still wtf wtf?

Argument for Palin 2012, as opposed to some other person 2012: "But people have actually heard of Palin.". Had people really heard of her in, uh say July 2008? What of 2012 then? I do not get it haha.

Btw when does the "shit not to get jindal elected in 2012" thread start?

he performs exorcisms

Take a moment to consider that Obama’s thugs are now resorting to fake Republican agitators to disrupt McCain’s rallys with cries of “Arab”, etc. Don’t fall for it; McCain isn’t.

80 posted on 10/10/2008 4:23:40 PM PDT by sarasota
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I'm not sure you guys are entirely reading me. "Cultivating the exact sentiment his supporters have been expressing" = precisely what I'm saying seems to have been his takeaway from the 2000 primary; I'm also saying that most presidential candidates get to have their smears kept on the level of insinuation by people at their events, whereas he has the current problem that those supporters will take those smears a step farther than is allowable in polite political conversation.

Also I don't think it's a stretch to say that (a) even McCain's weaving, hyper-negative approach lately is a far cry from the sorts of statements he's been forced to step away from here, and (b) his personality seems (to me, anyway) to be that of someone who would much rather be winning on "statesmanship" and "substance" and not flinging smears from a losing position. (I think that's anyone's personality, yes?)

I mean, hell, no matter how much it's your own fault for dredging it up, there is no candidate in the universe who wants to have people at his events say things so far beyond the realms of substance that he actually has to step back and defend his opponent for the sake of seeming halfway decent and non-evil! It is hard to imagine more annoying positions to be put in by your own supporters.

haha this is nuts, none of these people are ever responsible for anything...

To: pissant

I can’t believe that you would post such useless drivel here.

What do you expect McCain to say that he is a dangerous person and no one should trust himor let people decide for themselves?

Also it is being reported that the O is putting ringers at the Repub rallys yelling hang him, off with his head, and other such comments.

Please increase your meds.

102 posted on 10/10/2008 4:29:28 PM PDT by stockpirate (US Congress just created the right to own slaves, problem is, we are the slaves.)
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so yr saying mccain would rather being winning than hanging out w/angry weirdos xp

Nabisco, I think you're just giving McCain too much credit. He's still running the ads that inspired this level of discourse among his constituents. Were his ads as flagrant as some of the comments being shouted at rallies? No. But they were akin and a clear antecedent. Now, maybe he's horrified about what he has wrought, but he clearly wrought it. The problem isn't about whether he's a good person at heart - it's that he's failing to take responsibility for his own actions. IMHO.

but (b) happens to intersect with (c) his only hope of winning anyway, and i think the latter is motivating this cease-and-desist. from your first post i thought you were suggesting he was doing this primarily because he's a decent guy, which i don't agree is his motivation, even if he is.

Umm that all makes sense but I don't see what possible connection it has to what I said or how much credit I'm giving him?

xp - And in case I'm not being clear enough about 2000, what I'm saying is that I think he went through the primary then with a sense that extreme negativity was (a) distasteful to him as a victim of it, and (b) not something that fit his brand as a statesmanlike, bipartisan, maverick, straight-talker, etc. ... and I think he came out of the primary possibly thinking fuck it, that is what works and how things get done.

problem is, we are the slaves :(

Glenn Greenwald on this very subject.

UPDATE II: The McCain campaign is obviously reading the same polls and reaching the same conclusions. Read Ana Marie Cox’s amazing account of how McCain — after stoking these sentiments for more than a week — suddenly and repeatedly tried to restrain and even admonish today’s lynch mob in Minnesota (h/t Andrew Sullivan). But look at what the crowd is saying in their questions to McCain as a result of what the McCain/Palin campaign has done (“I’m scared of Barack Obama… he’s an Arab terrorist…”). McCain repeatedly interrupted questions like this to say that Obama is a “decent family man” and to insist that disagreements with Obama be “respectful,” and Cox — an unrepentant, tire-swinging McCain lover if ever there was one — generously says: “I think (McCain) means it.

Right. He spent the last seven days whipping up the Right in this country into an unprecedentedly ugly frenzy, and just as polls show that he is falling further behind and the tactics are backfiring (and as the former GOP Michigan Governor and long-time McCain supporter condemns McCain for these tactics and William F. Buckley’s Republican son endorses Obama, citing his radically changed behavior and his choice of Palin), McCain abruptly and flamboyantly condemns such sentiments. Whatever else that is, genuine isn’t it.

“Puck you Palin!”

Seriously, who thought it was a good idea to have Sarah Palin drop the puck at a Philadelphia Flyers game? (Of course, there’s also the question of why she’s spending so much time in Philadelphia, but that’s an issue for another day.)

Philadelphia sports fans are legendary, and not in a good way. They booed — and threw snowballs at — Santa Claus, for God’s sake. Santa Claus. They celebrated when Dallas Cowboys star Michael Irvin was injured. Their own mascot couldn’t escape fans’ wrath when he dropped a foul ball recently.

So it seemed sort of inevitable that something would happen to make this photo op less than perfect. And now one Web site, PuckYouPalin.com, has stepped in to try to make sure that happens — they’re encouraging fans to chant the name of the site when she gets on the ice.

She just better hope fans don’t remember that she almost jogged around their city recently while wearing New York Rangers gear.