Depression and what it's really like

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yeah i totally get this desc

tehresa, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

i dont think call all destroyer doesnt "get" the description

fleetwood (max), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

shut up max

tehresa, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

no YOU

fleetwood (max), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

^^ this what depression is really like

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:22 (4 years ago) Permalink

reading these last few posts has been depressing

Mr. Que, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 01:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

Going on a pathetic archive.org binge, looking up friends webpages from high school, and somehow ended up at a photoagallery from a few weeks ago of a friend who just got married, one of my very best friends from back in the day. He looks so happy with his bf (I guess his husband now), I have so few real friends anymore. Anyway, sad lonely guy just thinking about things on the internet, but god, FUCK 2009 so far

OLIGARHY (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 06:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

waaah fergettit

OLIGARHY (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 06:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

everything must die!

Nhex, Sunday, 6 September 2009 09:45 (4 years ago) Permalink

Going on a pathetic archive.org binge, looking up friends webpages from high school, and somehow ended up at a photoagallery from a few weeks ago of a friend who just got married, one of my very best friends from back in the day. He looks so happy with his bf (I guess his husband now), I have so few real friends anymore. Anyway, sad lonely guy just thinking about things on the internet, but god, FUCK 2009 so far

I never think in quantity when it comes to friends, really? Then again that's probably cause I have very few friends. I simply don't need a ton of friends.

Of course she looks happy: she's supposed to. :-)

Nathalie (stevienixed), Sunday, 6 September 2009 13:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm simply some vague internet thing, but I still send you some hugs. :-)

Nathalie (stevienixed), Sunday, 6 September 2009 13:03 (4 years ago) Permalink

Discussions of depression almost always get muddled up by confusing clinical depression, which is a mental health problem, with just being unhappy, which is as common as spit.

The usual cure for unhappiness is to understand the cause of it and to decide you can change it. Since understanding the causes of your unhappiness and correctly identifying what to do to change it are both processes that are prone to error, ignorance and self-delusion, it can take quite a few iterations of this to tip the balance in your favor.

Clinically depressed people, otoh, are incapable of acting to change their situation. They need help.

Aimless, Sunday, 6 September 2009 18:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

Clinically depressed people, otoh, are incapable of acting to change their situation. They need help. - yes, the problem is that it is that the line b/c CD & the more situational variety is often so subtle, or the transition so smooth, that it is very difficult to distinguish one from the other, at least not until the CD reaches such ridiculous extremes that it reveals itself for what it is. It is a slippery slope, this depression stuff. Best just to consult a professional from the outset & let them help you sort out what needs to be done.

Pullman/Paxton Revolving Bills (Pillbox), Sunday, 6 September 2009 18:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

This - incapable of acting to change their situation is the crux of the matter.

The sense of hopelessness leads to a sense of helplessness. That learned helplessness, like animals in labs.

That even when you have identified the cause - or at least the principle aggravator - of your depression, you still feel utterly helpless and unable to do anything about it. The feeling of "it does not matter if I move or I don't move, I will be administered an electric shock either way." Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 19:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I just came out of a major CD funk last year & you really do feel helpless & trapped inside an existential catch-22. I hate to think where it would have led to if not for the guidance of those close to me. I came out of it (thank god), but I wish I'd been more hip to what was going on earlier b/c I simply would like all that time back! I'm so scared of heading down that path again that, these days, if I wake up with a normal case of the blues I contemplate calling my doctor.

Pullman/Paxton Revolving Bills (Pillbox), Sunday, 6 September 2009 19:55 (4 years ago) Permalink

Hell of a lot of times it's been peeps like my awesome husband who basically pack me in a suitcase and drop me off at the therapist when I'm far gone in the depressio camp as I'm obviously too one with my bed & blankets to be functional. OTOH the idea that I'm "incapable of acting to change [my] situation" is one I know is DAMN dangerous. "Change" meaning maybe being able to take a shower, put on real clothes, things I know will put me in a slightly more functional frame.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:15 (4 years ago) Permalink

On the OTHER other hand there's sometimes the idea that there IS a way to change the situation by a gun to the head. Fuck that. What I'm saying is I realize w/me there's a lot of ideas that are bad that try to settle like birds on my head and I have to shake them before they lay eggs.
I heard this metaphor when I was 16 and it has resulted in this habit of literally shaking my head like a wet dog to connote kicking the damn thing out. Just what I need, another weird tic, right? But it works for me on some level I guess.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

If you are capable of finding the will to get up, take a shower and put on real clothes, all by yourself, then you haven't yet reached the last stage of incapacity, thankfully. But if that is consistently about all you can accomplish before you exhaust your ability to act, then I'd say you should still be considered clinically depressed - which isn't shameful, just important to know and for others around you to recognize, so you can get to the therapist and get more help.

It's not like I am saying you or other depressed people are, by definition, incapable and therefore beyond change, but more of a functional definition, based on current observable behavior, requiring outside intervention and assistance.

btw, I like the shaking your head thing. Sounds effective.

Aimless, Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:27 (4 years ago) Permalink

I'm more than familiar w/clinical depression, Aimless!

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:28 (4 years ago) Permalink

Some of this lady's stuff has helped me – DEFS not saying it's a global solution or that it will work for everyone. She has this thing where you set up sort of a living will-type document to tell others (and yourself) how you want to be treated when yr too far gone.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

Ugh, sorry for my stupid revive last night. I understand the distinction between being really bummed out over certain events or circumstances, and the more persistent CD. I wasn't trying to pretend like I'm really depressed, I just wanted to vent and drunkenly went for this one to revive. My post looks pretty stupid sitting up against the legitimate problems that a lot of people were/are discussing in this thread. That said, thanks stevienixed.

OLIGARHY (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:42 (4 years ago) Permalink

ZS don't feel bad. fwiw (not saying you did the wrong thing, don't feel embarrassed) this is the thread I post to when I've got that vibe: I'm sad home of Abbott the sad revivalist.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

that's the one. I'd seen it before, I just couldn't remember the name. I need to create a bookmarks folder called "click here when you're in the midst of a downward drunken spiral"

OLIGARHY (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 20:49 (4 years ago) Permalink

The world really is your oyster, ZS. You are the best.

bamcquern, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:02 (4 years ago) Permalink

Jeez, that's a really nice thing to say, thanks!

Internet! (Z S), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Birds laying eggs in an interesting metaphor, Abbot. I always had the metaphor of "thoughtworms" from that Weather Prophets song. "I've got a worm in my brain, it brings me to my knees, it comes on like a thought, and stays just like a disease."

You think it's a thought, so you think it, but it doesn't go anywhere, it just goes round and round in circles and eats your brain, eats your actual thoughts, sucks the life and soul and happiness and joy right out of your head. It's kind of like a computer virus, but for a sentient brain.

The thoughtworms have been getting cleverer lately - they come on like thoughts about things I genuinely believe, they hide themselves inside philosophy and ideals. But they're still thoughtworms. It's taken some readjustment recently to try and understand that a lot of the things I have been thinking about Feminism are, actually, thoughtworms piggybacking on genuine beliefs to get into my head and destroy shit.

The thing that really gets to me, is how isolated I am. That my family live SO FAR away from me. I realised yesterday that I hadn't talked to my mum in two weeks, and that was part of why I was getting so far down. The thought that there was no one on "my side" at all. Living alone is bad for shit like that.

I used to have the "where does it come from" thread bookmarked for cases of emergency, but that's kind of been ruined now. :-(

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink

If you are capable of finding the will to get up, take a shower and put on real clothes, all by yourself, then you haven't yet reached the last stage of incapacity, thankfully.

i recommend crawling to the hospital in filthy clothes if this is the case. saved my life once or twice. (not literally crawling, obviously. that would hurt.)

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:12 (4 years ago) Permalink

(i do recommend researching the hospitals first. though obviously if you've reached a certain point its time to cling to the first passing plank.)

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:16 (4 years ago) Permalink

When I was an adolescent, my family used to dump me in the Crisis Centre of the nearest Mental Hospital when my behaviour got more than they could handle.

I think this has created a long-lasting fear of ever going to a hospital or calling a help line or anything like that. The fear that I will be taken away and dumped somewhere.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:17 (4 years ago) Permalink

;_;

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:18 (4 years ago) Permalink

it's a big fear to overcome. it took a LOT of stamina the first time. in a weird way, though, that was a pretty good indicator of will-to-go-on etc. even in hindsight.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:20 (4 years ago) Permalink

for real!

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:21 (4 years ago) Permalink

my dad's mom was mentally ill - probably now she'd be considered bipolar, but this was the 60s - and after both my dad and his sister were off at college, she really lost it, and my grandfather just couldn't deal with it anymore and sent her to a mental institution and divorced her. I think that's probably my greatest fear - that something like that will happen to me, even though my problems aren't nearly as severe as hers.

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:24 (4 years ago) Permalink

the laws for involuntary commitment are a LOT different now. kind of a weird thing to use as a panacea but whatever gets you through the day.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink

iirc once you're over 18 your family can't do anything to direct or control your mental health choices

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:29 (4 years ago) Permalink

If you say that you are having thoughts about killing yourself, they can keep you as long as they like - I mean, until they can prove that you are no longer a danger to yourself.

It;s like this catch 22. I think about suicide all the time. This is normal for me, but usually it's only once or twice a day. When it becomes *constant* when it becomes thinking through methods (even if only to discount the ones I could never ever do because it would be too painful) - i *know* that that is the point at which I *know* I should get some help.

But if I tell anyone in the mental health profession that I'm having serious thoughts of suicide, they are obliged to report that and get me sectioned. Fuck that shit, I'm not going back there. Mental hospitals *make* you crazier than you ever went in.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:34 (4 years ago) Permalink

maybe u.k./u.s. difference here, but i really don't believe that. different stokes, obvs, regardless of geography.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:36 (4 years ago) Permalink

(by which i mean i don't want to discount anyone's opinions based on my own experiences, etc.)

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:39 (4 years ago) Permalink

xp - I don't know whether it was involuntary or not ... my parents and my dad's sister were all outside of the country when it happened. I don't know whether she died there (she died shortly before I was born), or whether she was only there for a little while.

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:41 (4 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, because of that, it's really important to me to have close friends outside of family/romantic relationships, so that I don't feel alone or dependent on ties to only a few people. My grandmother was the typical post-war housewife, and outside of her family, she had nothing - no real relationships with others, no means of supporting herself, etc.

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:48 (4 years ago) Permalink

What can a hospital do for you if you are in that kind of state?

I'm not asking rhetorically or cynically (though I am probably suspicious due to experiences) but genuinely want to know - I don't know. In the hopes it might be helpful?

I suppose I could just call my doctor and go and say "I'm depressed as fuck - this is a bad one" but what's he gonna do but fuck with my medication, and I don't have the sick time left if it goes wrong. I read that page Abbott recommended, and I suppose I need to follow some of the suggestions there - things I know do work, but I forget when I'm in the thick of it.

-get some more light, leave the house/basement office, stand in the sunshine even if I hate it

-do some light exercise, even if it's just getting on the machine for five minutes, it's better than nothing

I'll do that for a week, and if it hasn't started to lift, I'll go to the doctor.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

I think as far as hospitalization goes - it's something if you can't take care of yourself (eat, clean, go to work, etc.) or as was mentioned upthread, if you're likely to try to take your own life.

what happened? i am confused. (sarahel), Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

well for me "going into the hospital" has always been the sort of thing where it's gone beyond "having the sick time." it's a point where work and everything else seems...not even secondary or tertiary. just not even on the game board anymore. i'm not recommending it as a first step at all.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 21:59 (4 years ago) Permalink

That's what I like abt that site is she has you think abt what works for you when you're doing ok & then you have this checklist of things you know you need to do when you're so thick in it you can't think or see.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:00 (4 years ago) Permalink

I suppose it's a good sign that I can still drag myself to work, even if I have been spending a good proportion of the day weeping in the loo. I haven't been that down as Strongo describes since I started this job. I was there in the last job, though. Got through that with booze, I'm sorry to say.

yeah, Abbott - I know all of those things on that list, there's nothing there I don't know. But it's stuff that I *forget* that it is there, or that it works. Or think "no, I'm too far gone for that" but then I remember it really is those little things that get you back from too far gone to hanging in there again.

Evren Kader (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

I always fantasize abt getting hit by a car to have some 'sick time.' If I went to the hospital here w/a (mental/emotional) problem they'd cuff me to the bed, shove me full of atavan (sp?), charge me $500+ and kick me out. That's just here in Las Cruces, tho, YMMV obviously. No one can get on your case about getting hit by a car.

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:05 (4 years ago) Permalink

Got through that with booze, I'm sorry to say.

this.

strongohulkingtonsghost, Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:06 (4 years ago) Permalink

I've been using way more alcohol than normal ;_;

god bless this -ation (Abbott), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

Kate, I can't remember from previous posts, but how do you feel about counselling/talk therapy/etc? The westminster pastoral foundation - http://www.wpf.org.uk/ - has a network of places that focus on affordable counselling, both short and long term, which might not be immediately useful if you're at the worst of a slump but could be useful in making it manageable.

elephants of style (c sharp major), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:07 (4 years ago) Permalink

overuse of 'useful' there, marvellous.

elephants of style (c sharp major), Sunday, 6 September 2009 22:10 (4 years ago) Permalink


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