So like, just to try to find any ray of hope at all, if this money hasn't actually taken effect yet and its failure is only psychological, is there a chance that once the money does take effect it will slow the crisis a bit?
― Everything is Highlighted (Hurting 2), Friday, 10 October 2008 02:53 (fifteen years ago) link
I remain to be convinced that getting the debt markets moving again is a viable solution to a problem of excessive debt
― Kondratieff, Friday, 10 October 2008 02:55 (fifteen years ago) link
btw i am really enjoying the term and concept shadow banking system
― joseph sixpack (ice crӕm), Friday, 10 October 2008 02:57 (fifteen years ago) link
― Kondratieff, Thursday, October 9, 2008 10:55 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
theyre just trying to keep the economy from totally collapsing at this point - nothing so ambitious as eliminating excessive debt
― joseph sixpack (ice crӕm), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:00 (fifteen years ago) link
yeah kondratieff liquidity vs. solvency but at the same time if not later, when? you know? i still remained unconvinced that inaction is preferable to action, i guess.
― ******* (Lamp), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:04 (fifteen years ago) link
ilxors needin convincin
― stet, Friday, 10 October 2008 03:05 (fifteen years ago) link
I do kind of cringe every time I hear someone say that home prices need to stabilize for all this to work. Home prices are still too fucking high and a lot of the homes in these nuCali and nuFlorida type developments aren't worth much at all. Big ugly homes in the middle of nowhere with shit construction and inadequate demand.
― Everything is Highlighted (Hurting 2), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:07 (fifteen years ago) link
Like sorry guys, but the starbucks around the corner closed and folks don't have the money to pay for their 50 mile commute, let alone play golf at the new course.
― Everything is Highlighted (Hurting 2), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:08 (fifteen years ago) link
yah housing still def overpriced but its not like all of it is that new exurb type stuff
― joseph sixpack (ice crӕm), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:09 (fifteen years ago) link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1837
― velko, Friday, 10 October 2008 03:10 (fifteen years ago) link
lol local news doing man on the wall street interviews - lots head shaking confusion
― joseph sixpack (ice crӕm), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:12 (fifteen years ago) link
now bush is speaking - its like hes not even president anymore
― joseph sixpack (ice crӕm), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:13 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm feeling that if this solves the liquidity issue it doesn't really address the solvency issue or the debt problem. If this works - how long for? All the things that are wrong would remain wrong, what is to prevent it happening again in 5 years? 2 years? 6 weeks? Sooner or later *somebody* is going to have to start paying it all back. Its been put off for years, maybe decades.
But at the moment looks like no one is buying it anyway - so if this is to try and manage an orderly climbdown, then I can see the logic --- but its a hell of a long way down from here
I think Hurting 2 is correct about asset prices stabilizing. If they stabilize at these high prices surely its just postponing it all. I think prices need to drop a lot further than this
― Kondratieff, Friday, 10 October 2008 03:19 (fifteen years ago) link
basic solution is for the fed/treasury to tie cash to write-downs. i'm too lazy to link to 1933 wikipedia but that's the idea, no?
― ******* (Lamp), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:23 (fifteen years ago) link
yah and obv a soft landing is best - so i dont think we really need to totally sort everything out overnight
― joseph sixpack (ice crӕm), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:31 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUKTRE4988VI20081010
Presume this is going to Iceland but sounds like others in pipeline too. Ireland, UK & Spain the most obvious contenders I guess. France/Italy? rumblings about South Korea...
― Kondratieff, Friday, 10 October 2008 03:54 (fifteen years ago) link
National Debt Clock runs out of digits http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4910883.ece
― joseph sixpack (ice crӕm), Friday, 10 October 2008 03:58 (fifteen years ago) link
Money just done disappeared is hard to mitigate.
― Eazy, Friday, 10 October 2008 04:36 (fifteen years ago) link
http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/5y/_/_n225
― Eazy, Friday, 10 October 2008 04:54 (fifteen years ago) link
Whee!
― Everything is Highlighted (Hurting 2), Friday, 10 October 2008 04:54 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.cphelps.id.au/images/ElToro.jpg
― joe 40oz (deej), Friday, 10 October 2008 05:15 (fifteen years ago) link
lol at my 401(k) website. they dropped the graph that usually pops up showing the trajectory of the account. "no, trust us, you really don't want to see that."
― tipsy mothra, Friday, 10 October 2008 05:16 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.choggy.co.uk/gallery/oblivion.gif
― velko, Friday, 10 October 2008 05:16 (fifteen years ago) link
yah but doesnt the one i posted look so fucking ridiculous?
― joe 40oz (deej), Friday, 10 October 2008 05:17 (fifteen years ago) link
it looks like they were trynna sell subprime condos on the side of it
― joe 40oz (deej), Friday, 10 October 2008 05:18 (fifteen years ago) link
maybe i can find some way to paste that into my 401(k) site.
― tipsy mothra, Friday, 10 October 2008 05:19 (fifteen years ago) link
http://z.about.com/d/cleveland/1/0/3/8/-/-/cliff.jpg
― Eazy, Friday, 10 October 2008 05:24 (fifteen years ago) link
is that the prudential rock
― joe 40oz (deej), Friday, 10 October 2008 05:25 (fifteen years ago) link
That's Jan. 2007 - Jan. 2009
― Eazy, Friday, 10 October 2008 05:31 (fifteen years ago) link
ftse just below 4000
― stet, Friday, 10 October 2008 08:13 (fifteen years ago) link
Guardian reporting today that the UK government can't actually enforce what the banks do with their £50bn at all. Big surprise.
― Matt DC, Friday, 10 October 2008 08:31 (fifteen years ago) link
They may not be able to enforce in the strictest sense of the word, but they can threaten them with the prospect of withdrawing the money or not giving it to them in the first place.
I would rather see Kondratieff's point in terms of money supply. We have had a massive and unsustainable balloon in the money supply followed by a massive contraction that probably get's us out of too much inflation. whilst we shouldn't go back to those conditions we have to do something to mitigate the short to medium term effects of that correction, i.e. increase the money supply, quickly and bring it down gently. The pain has to be mitigated now then we think about fixing. Think of this as the shot of morphine for the ride in the ambulance, the amputation comes later.
― Christopher Blix Hammer (Ed), Friday, 10 October 2008 10:38 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/
― Christopher Blix Hammer (Ed), Friday, 10 October 2008 10:52 (fifteen years ago) link
specifically:
damnit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2008/10/day_of_reckoning.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/10/08/chicago.evictions/index.html?iref=mpstoryview
man, this sheriff just makes me go all cuddlestein mountain. i immediately thought of david strathairn's sheriff in matewan
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 10 October 2008 10:53 (fifteen years ago) link
xpAnd that's 3 in a row. We have a winner!
― Any cook should be able to run the country. (Ned Trifle II), Friday, 10 October 2008 10:54 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm a lot hung over
http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2008/db081009.gif
― Christopher Blix Hammer (Ed), Friday, 10 October 2008 11:06 (fifteen years ago) link
nvestors looked to extend the frenetic selling on Wall Street Friday, adding to yet another global sell-off on concerns that even low interest rates won't help end the worsening credit crisis. Dow Jones industrials futures plunged 250 points ahead of the opening bell in New York.
― Every Day Jimmy Mod Is Hustlin' (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Friday, 10 October 2008 12:20 (fifteen years ago) link
The guardian's economics coverage continues to be good through this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/10/gordonbrown-labour
― Christopher Blix Hammer (Ed), Friday, 10 October 2008 12:22 (fifteen years ago) link
other than larry elliot on occasion guardian hasnt been that great on this. On the other hand the Times has been ludicrous and abysmal. Telegraph has been better than the Guardian though. In the real world Eoubini and Faber have been good reads. Al-Jazeerav English has been good too (and http://www.maxkeiser.com/). and Peter Schiff on Fox News(!) has been on at this for about 7 years and is a good watch
― Kondratieff, Friday, 10 October 2008 12:36 (fifteen years ago) link
Roubini that should say
FT has been kicking ass as well.
― stet, Friday, 10 October 2008 12:38 (fifteen years ago) link
Michael Rowbotham has some interesting stuff relating to the credit bubble. Though was mainly written in mid 1990s before this went into complete lunacy
― Kondratieff, Friday, 10 October 2008 12:48 (fifteen years ago) link
DEEP BREATH HERE WE GO
― rent, Friday, 10 October 2008 13:27 (fifteen years ago) link
Dow down 900 to start.
I'll be your ticker, reflect what you are.
― brownie, Friday, 10 October 2008 13:33 (fifteen years ago) link
er I meant 300 but there's still time
― brownie, Friday, 10 October 2008 13:35 (fifteen years ago) link
holy fuck
― rent, Friday, 10 October 2008 13:37 (fifteen years ago) link
lol market tampering
― joseph sixpack (ice crӕm), Friday, 10 October 2008 13:37 (fifteen years ago) link
Below 8000 now.
― Billy Dods, Friday, 10 October 2008 13:37 (fifteen years ago) link