Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

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Trying to find that No Secrets song and I accidentally stumbled upon the new companion video to the last Sugar Shock column.

― dabug, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Order I rank the five American Idol Latin Night performances I looked at on YouTube (I skipped Phil and Haley and bailed on Chris):

Sanjaya, Melinda, Jordin, Blake, Lakisha.

Seriously, Sanjaya was the only one who connected to what he was singing - which is astonishing. Melinda and Jordin got the notes and the rhythm but couldn't find a feeling, Blake seemed like a walk-through, Lakisha like an alien - which is what I'd normally say about Sanjaya, but I just YouTubed his audition segment and saw him comfortable and compelling doing Stevie Wonder. Simon generally OTM except he was inexplicably kind to Blake. Greg said over on the AI thread: "From a performance standpoint that was possibly the worst AI episode I've ever seen (up there with 00's night from season 5). Fairly entertaining though."

J-Lo was very appealing; yet as a coach she obviously couldn't motivate the performers.

Overall I'd say that it's between Melinda and Jordin, who's got a shot at an upset, but Sanjaya being the wildcard, he could take enough votes from her to keep her out of the final. Maybe I'm underestimating people's love for the big voice, but I don't think Lakisha has a shot at winning. Could sneak into second, though. I think Melinda wins but in the long run Jordin sells more records.

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 19:54 (seventeen years ago) link

I think Melinda wins but in the long run Jordin sells more records.

I'm not sure about Melinda winning - as she seems to be doing Lakisha, but less so. So maybe people will find her more physically appealing, but I don't know why she'd win and Lakisha wouldn't. I'm hoping for a Jordin upset, but the people I've been watching AI with me agree with you about Jordin's post-AI career. She clearly has enough fans that she'll sell records. Actually, I think Blake will have a sustainable post-AI career too. His voice hasn't proven to be tremendous, but he's suave and sexy - and he reminds me of a beatboxing Justin Timberlake. I don't understand why Chris, Phil, or Sanjaya are still in. I guess I understand Sanjaya's physical appeal - but his voice is gross.

― Mordechai Shinefield, Thursday, 12 April 2007 20:05 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost

Frank, I entirely agree with that ranking of the 5 performances.

1) Sanjaya, 2) Melinda, 3) Jordin, 4) Blake, 5) Phil, 6) LaKisha, 7) Haley, 8) Chris. Chris and Haley were godawful, though Chris was inexplicably praised. Even Sanjaya was just OK. Agreed with Simon a lot more than usual last week, other than his love of Blake and Chris. I suspect LaKisha is in for a "shocking" early elimination, a la Jennifer Hudson.

Next week is Country Music week, which is always interesting, as Simon hates country music, and there are no country singers this year. Martina McBride the celebrity vocal coach. Jordin seems likely to adapt well and Chris's nasaliness shouldn't hurt him here, as he can find plenty of touchpoints for nasaliness in country. I suspect Melinda will do a technically flawless but boring rendition of some old country tune, Jordin will do Faith Hill or Shania, Chris will do Rascal Flatts, Blake will do some alt tune or Gary Allan.

― Greg Fanoe, Thursday, 12 April 2007 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link

The reason I think Jordin has a shot to upset here is that she seems to have the most adaptable voice. She seems like she could do a credible job at almost any genre and at music from almost any time period, whereas Melinda and LaKisha (and everybody else to some extent) seem much more beholden to one particular singing style.

The reason I think Melinda will go farther than LaKisha is that, IMO, she is a better singer and more skilled interpreter.

― Greg Fanoe, Thursday, 12 April 2007 20:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Simon doesn't necessarily hate or love any kind of music, he notoriously predicted Carrie Underwood's success. He just loves $$$$$ and country music is a good way to get that cash baby.

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 12 April 2007 20:33 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think Melinda is always boring; she takes risks with tempo and sometimes she'll put her phrasing against the expected rhythm. So she could do something with country, which has material that veers towards soul.

If Blake has sense he'll do "King Of The Road."

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:08 (seventeen years ago) link

LAX Gurls (formerly LAX (I think), who are like the good Cheetah Girls but haven't been pushed on Radio Disney yet despite their incubator feature)

From their look they're more aiming to be the Pussycat Dolls; 'cept musically on "Forget You" - the song they're pushing on MySpace and radio - they're a band of JoJos, and though none of them has JoJo's rhythm or feeling, the song comes closer than I'd expect to pulling it off: not as good as "Too Little Too Late" but up there with Katharine McPhee's "Over It." Does shimmering high-pitched pain very well.

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:30 (seventeen years ago) link

New McFly single: Bubblegoth. Well, more like bubbleQueen, actually.

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 12:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Wow, hadn't actually listened to the new LAX single until now, wasn't at all like what they had in the incubaTor feature (also very good!). Now I can't find their old audio sample at the Diznee site...hm.

Also love the McFly single and the video is GREAT, especially if it's supposed to be completely out of sync for the concept (can't tell on Youtube)...question: is this Queen via MCR? I'd love if some of the pomp-emo stuff got (further) bubblegummed up and sold to, oh I dunno, Disney. Fall Out Boy came closest with their fun cover of "This Is Halloween" which I think was narrowly picked in the Mailbag but never made it into rotation.

― dabug, Friday, 13 April 2007 13:21 (seventeen years ago) link

*that's "also, the new single is very good, much better than I remember their other one being."

― dabug, Friday, 13 April 2007 13:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Sorry, it was "What's This?", which also has some Queenish harmonies.

― dabug, Friday, 13 April 2007 13:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I heard MCR too, but crossed with Europop. I love that song, it hops a ridiculous amount of genres without falling apart.

I haven't been watching AI, so maybe this is a "duh" thing, but when I went to the website I noticed they're also having a songwriter competition, with the winning song to be played at the finale. Could be interesting.

― Eppy, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:49 (seventeen years ago) link

The LAX Gurlz are offering a free download of "Forget You".

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:59 (seventeen years ago) link

I haven't been watching AI, so maybe this is a "duh" thing, but when I went to the website I noticed they're also having a songwriter competition, with the winning song to be played at the finale. Could be interesting.

Couldn't produce worse results than whatever method they use to write winning songs now. ("Inside Yr Heaven" was OK).

― Greg Fanoe, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, the real version of "Never Again" is posted to Kelly's myspace (
http://myspace.com/kellyclarkson). Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet owing to being at work, but I'm going out of my mind in anticipation here.

― Greg Fanoe, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Here, this link works: http://www.myspace.com/kellyclarkson

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:20 (seventeen years ago) link

I have learned my lesson to not put links inside parentheses

― Greg Fanoe, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:38 (seventeen years ago) link

I have learned my lesson: I like this song very much.

― Dimension 5ive, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:44 (seventeen years ago) link

"Never Again" is not a surprise to me as it's in the basic dark tenor of "Low" and "Addicted" and "Hear Me" but revved up like the second half of "Maybe". But it will surprise a lot of people, I think, that it's so loud in its anguish and anger. Don't know how Top 40 and AC radio will handle this, though Evanescence should have cleared the way for it. And I assume that the rock stations, as usual, will shun it. The dumbasses. (I think "Maybe" is even better, and I'm afraid that this being a single will mean that "Maybe" can't be, given that RCA wouldn't let her release "Addicted" as the followup to "Because Of You," their claim being that the tone was too similar.)

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:46 (seventeen years ago) link

It's not really doing it for me right now--that chorus sounds a little too much like recent dour hard rock stuff. Maybe I need to hear it on headphones. I love the bridge though.

― Eppy, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I think "Maybe" is a very different song from this, though.

― Eppy, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:54 (seventeen years ago) link

In the time it took me to play "Never Again" once, MySpace registered another 400 plays.

"Maybe" has more dynamics - and more of a tune - but the same guitar crunch. (It's at least as close to "Never Again" as "Addicted" was to "Because Of You," the latter being a ballad and "Addicted" being a rocker.)

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:58 (seventeen years ago) link

It is very much like recent dour hard stuff. And that's fine with me, 'cause I love the way her high pitch still sounds full and emotionally deep. The lyrics seem to hitting standard targets - breaking up by letter, trophy wife, etc. "I hope that when you're in bed with her you think of me." (Nothing as idiosyncratic as "Maybe"'s "I don't need to be found - I'm not lost"). So this doesn't have the analytic twists I'm hoping from Ashlee. (I mean, a more interesting lyric would have someone saying to Kelly what she's saying to the guy in this one. But then I'd be asking to turn into Jagger or Lou Reed, which isn't likely.) And maybe you're right that there's a musical promise in the verse that the chorus doesn't live up to. I don't think I can explain why musically. But this is very powerful.

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:14 (seventeen years ago) link

seems to BE hitting standard targets
But then I'd be asking HER to turn into Jagger or Lou Reed (I turned into them long ago).

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

So this doesn't have the analytic twists I'm hoping from AN Ashlee.

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Does anyone know the writing credits on "Never Again"? Wikipedia lists the producer as David Kahne. He seems to have done many and varied pop things (Wikipedia lists Bangles, Sublime, McCartney, Sugar Ray, among others).

Speaking of Wikipedia, that's the source of my saying that RCA scotched "Addicted" as the fifth single from Breakaway; but there's no citation by the statement. ("Initially, 'Addicted' had been planned for release as a fifth single, but was cancelled when RCA deemed its dark tone and message too similar to that of her previous two singles.") Kelly must like the song, since she used it as the name of her 2006 concert tour.

― Frank Kogan, Friday, 13 April 2007 20:45 (seventeen years ago) link

Frank, I spent way too long that I should have spent working this afternoon trying to figure out the songwriting credits, with no luck. On the plus side, I did determine that "One Minute" is Kelly Clarkson, Kara Dioguardi, and Raine Maida.

― Greg Fanoe, Friday, 13 April 2007 22:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Lex interviews Ciara. (Among other things, the piece is very witty.)

― Frank Kogan, Saturday, 14 April 2007 00:00 (seventeen years ago) link

Never Again (Dave Aude Remix) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Never Again.

― MRZBW, Saturday, 14 April 2007 01:08 (seventeen years ago) link

From country thread:

This bubblecountry's gal's self-released CD is sounding excellent so far. (Frank really needs to check this album out, I think.) Favorite track so far is the title track, "What U See," absolute Miranda Lambert hard rock with a "Smells Like Teen Spirit" riff; after that so far "Colours" (where she's looking for something in red gray pink yellow orange and bright green chartreuse) and "Butterfly Tattoo" (where dad's gonna kill her if mom doesn't first and nothing says she's 17 like breaking loose -- though actually she's just 14, apparently)--both songs sound really pretty too.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/brandieframpton

[i]-- xhuxk, Friday, April 13, 2007 7:10 AM (Yesterday)
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Heard first track on the Brandie Frampton and thought Xhuxk was deluded. Next two turned me around. Don't have time to listen to the rest tonight.
-- Frank Kogan, Friday, April 13, 2007 10:12 PM (Yesterday)
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"What U See," absolute Miranda Lambert hard rock

Okay, well, she doesn't have Miranda's voice. Which makes a difference, obviously, but then again almost no one has Miranda's voice, and no way am I deluded about this track's rockingness. I don't think. Frank will probably suggest Brandie try "auto-tune," but when people need to be auto-tuned is not something I ever notice (didn't notice it with Mary Weiss or Leanne Kingwell either), and my inclination is to believe that, just like Frank is one of the only people on earth to underrate Funkadelic, he is also one of the only people to overrate autotuneness. Not that I would know, really. (Also not sure which Miranda track Frank's referring to as containing pseudo-Celtic bullshit. I do agree, though, that Celtic bullshit is often fun.) (Especially on punk and metal records, maybe.)

-- xhuxk, Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:27 AM (4 hours ago)
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"Dreams" also real good on that Brandie Frampton record. (Interesting cascading melody to that one; recalls some non-country pop oldie I can't place.) ("The Way It Is" by Bruce Hornsby maybe?? Hmmm...)
(Favorite tracks on Hilary Duff album so far, fwiw, since I brought it up: "Dignity," "Danger," "Gypsy Woman," "Never Stop," "No Work All Play," "Between You And Me," "Dreamer"...which is, um, half of the album. The rest might even be better, time'll tell. Disco pop with trouble lurking in the background.)

-- xhuxk, Saturday, April 14, 2007 2:47 PM (39 minutes ago)

― xhuxk, Saturday, 14 April 2007 20:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Fwiw, in context calling Miranda's track pseudo-Celtic bullshit was a compliment. (Track is "Down," my favorite on the album.)

― Frank Kogan, Saturday, 14 April 2007 23:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Discussion over on Poptimist about whom the Kelly Clarkson single reminds people of. The day before, during the League Of Pop's playing of PJ Harvey's "Down By The Water" I said that the release of "Never Again" would make "Down By The Water" moot. Tom heard a PJ similarity too. Others mentioned were Alanis, Throwing Muses, Wedding Present, Good Charlotte, Sleater-Kinney, Fleetwood Mac, Evanescence, Lindsey Buckingham, My Vitriol. I was the one who said Evanescence, which is maybe a kinda standard comparison to make, but it's true. Don't think "Never Again" is quite up to the two Moody-Hodges-Clarkson songs - "Because Of You" and "Addicted" - on Breakaway. (Moody and Hodges had both been in Evanescence.) But it'll take a while to decide what I think of "Never Again."

― Frank Kogan, Saturday, 14 April 2007 23:39 (seventeen years ago) link

new punk-pop band on Victory called 1997 has a great record with a title from a famous haiku, plus adorable harmonies and occasional banjos

― Dimension 5ive, Sunday, 15 April 2007 00:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Checked the 1997 MySpace page but couldn't find a track called "Haikunym."

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 April 2007 00:48 (seventeen years ago) link

not a famous haiku MAN ya silly.

actually it's kind of awesome, I had the same thing written on an index card on my wall all through high school (actual album title in italics):

sincy my house burned down
I now own a better view
of the rising moon

― Dimension 5ive, Sunday, 15 April 2007 01:00 (seventeen years ago) link

"Never Again" is about Hodges, Frank. There are apparently a lot of references that I'm not enough of a fan to understand--she burned one of his letters onstage, he said it sucks to see her face everywhere, etc.

I totally hear Lindsey Buckingham on that guitar now that someone's said something. But mostly "Never Again" reminds me of Shakira's "Don't Bother." "I would never wish bad things, but I don't wish you well" always gets "She went to private school, she speaks perfect French" stuck in my head, and it bugs me every time that they turn out to be different melodies.

― Nia, Sunday, 15 April 2007 04:14 (seventeen years ago) link

First Impression: Wow. "Never Again" is amazing. Angry Kelly Clarkson rock. Who knew?

― Mordechai Shinefield, Sunday, 15 April 2007 07:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I knew.

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 April 2007 18:59 (seventeen years ago) link

From the rolling country thread:

A Taylor Swift outtake (or demo), "Come In With The Rain," is downloadable from this site (scroll down the page). The rip is low quality, but the singing and song are good, gentle sadness, which she does oh so well. "I leave my window open/'Cause I'm too tired tonight to call your name/Just know I'm right here hopin'/That you'll come in with the rain." (I like the phrase "in with the rain" for not quite being a metaphor, just accompanying the sorrow that's there, whether the guy shows or not.)

Here it is on YouTube.

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 April 2007 19:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't imagine whomever Hodges married being more of a trophy wife than Kelly would be.

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 April 2007 19:06 (seventeen years ago) link

My wife finds the Clarkson lyrics completely ridiculous. Something along the lines of: "Never again will I love you! Never!" Thou Dost Protest Too Much. But I think it adds another dimension to the song. She's really angry, but most of that anger is because she did love him and was betrayed. It's not just a kiss-off song. It's a heart-broken kiss-off song. (Comparable to "Go Your Own Way" maybe? "Loving you / Isn't the right thing to do / How can I ever change things / That I feel.")

― Mordechai Shinefield, Sunday, 15 April 2007 19:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Charlotte's right that such an intensity of anger indicates an ongoing emotional involvement; the lyrics demonstrate a complicity that they don't acknowledge, and I think they'd be smarter and more interesting if they did acknowledge the complicity. But I agree that the involvement adds dimensions not ridiculousness to the song (or the ridiculous overinvolvement adds dimensions to the song).

Of course, the phrase "Never Again" is a loaded term for people like me and you, and Kelly knows nothing about it. (Think of what the Ramones would have made out of a song by that title.)

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 April 2007 20:05 (seventeen years ago) link

The loaded meaning of "Never Again" actually occurred to me before listening to the song, and the only reason I didn't bring it up was because the lyrics seemed to have nothing to do with the title. Obv. The Ramones would've taken that title and played against type (like with Blitzkrieg Bop - turn an ugly title into a bouncy song). The fact that Clarkson takes it completely seriously without acknowledging the context of the expression almost violates the original context - you can listen to the song and forget what the title means. (Obviously not forget, but in the moment it seems less significant.) But doesn't she have producers/agents/people who could tell her that calling a kiss-off song "Never Again" is probably an iffy move?

(It immediately reminded me of the Remedy song "Never Again" that he did for Wu-Tang, actually.)

― Mordechai Shinefield, Sunday, 15 April 2007 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Or here's a question: "Never Again" is an expression that we identify with certain cultural/social ideas (never again will there be a holocaust, etc). The expression "Never Again" doesn't literally mean that idea, but it's come to be shorthand for it on fliers and in speeches and writing. Is Clarkson actually doing an overt injustice to those themes by reappropriating that expression to mean something far less loaded? Or does it not matter, because the theme is, ultimately, disconnected from the idea that it represents?

― Mordechai Shinefield, Sunday, 15 April 2007 20:14 (seventeen years ago) link

But doesn't she have producers/agents/people who could tell her that calling a kiss-off song "Never Again" is probably an iffy move?

Nope. And no one told Hilary that gypsies are people now.

― dabug, Sunday, 15 April 2007 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Think the new Björk song, "Earth Intruders," is a lot more fun and less irritating than she usually is. Or it's just as irritating but "irritating ha-ha" rather than "irritating-irritating." Good rhythm, which helps get anything over. (Timbaland the producer.)

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 April 2007 20:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Kelly's not doing an injustice to the themes, since she has nothing to do with them. But since I know the themes, for a couple of seconds they served to (unfairly) make Kelly seem overwrought and ridiculous in her little problems. And it's not right to use the Holocaust to make our actual none world-important problems trivial in comparison, but it's an automatic reaction I had at first. Didn't get in the way of the song for me, just caused a moment's hesitation. I didn't think the Ramones wasn't were playing against type so much as they were conflating normal human impulses (e.g. to dominate in love relationships, "Today Your Love, Tomorrow The World") with murderous impulses, for comic effect but also to suggest that the difference was in degree (and the opportunity to act on the impulses) not in kind. They were finding a comic-hyperbolic-expressionist way to talk about boy-girl stuff and social maladjustment.

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 April 2007 20:39 (seventeen years ago) link

"I didn't think the Ramones wasn't were playing against type" = "I didn't think the Ramones were playing against type"

― Frank Kogan, Sunday, 15 April 2007 20:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Kelly is so not a trophy wife.

― Matt Armstrong, Sunday, 15 April 2007 21:30 (seventeen years ago) link

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