2008 Primaries Thread

Obama is wack.

Ambinder forwards this, about the vote whether or not to grant telecoms retroactive immunity for their their cooperation in making the end-run around FISA:

Sen. Obama voted to strip it (so, he voted for no immunity).
Sen. McCain voted not to strip the amendment (voted for immunity).
Sen. Clinton did not vote.

ZOMG hillz voted present!1?!! LOLL

Greenwald must be in a froth.

Obama is wack.

Not just wack: Wiggity wiggity wiggity whack.

He's wack sauce on a pita.

Obama is the Dane Cook of politics.

...

hahaha wtf plz to defend yr assertion

^^^^ This. I was being facetious. Colin doesn't seem to be.

I knew Gary Hart (not personally, of course) and Barack Obama is no Gary Hart. Obama can move crowds with the power of speech. Hart was pretty lackluster by comparison.

I mean, maybe on my own here, but he reminds me of Dane Cook or Oprah.

People who have good resumes or on the surface have everything going for them, and are LOVED by the masses, but you can tell after hearing them talk for five minutes, or looking at them that they are full of shit.

Dane Cook in a room of college students holding up the shocker=Obama in a room full of college students holding up signs that say "change".

this thread needed a david brooks

"holding up the shocker"?

you can tell after hearing them talk for five minutes, or looking at them that they are full of shit

I find it hard to tell that people are full of shit just by looking at them. Unless they're wearing an "I am full of shit" t-shirt or something. That's okay though. You probably have special powers.

All I have to go on is Obama's voting record, public speaking and published writing. The "full of shit" thing isn't so evident there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLVN3Trs5VQ

New Obama spot, which might be the sharpest political tv ad I've ever seen made.

lol

I don't know man...

I just don't like Obama. You don't have to go likening me to David Brooks.

I'd like to see Hillary somehow win but oh well...

"holding up the shocker"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shocker_(hand_gesture)

so basically your analogy is: they are both popular and you don't like either of them?

When I was nineteen I stole golf carts and watched reruns of Alf.

-- Colin_C., Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:11 PM

^^^ colin i think you ARE dane cook

I disagree, I think that you can tell a lot from someone's body language...

Including signs that they are full of it.

i think you're a dipshit troll who needs to stfu and gtfo

i can tell by what you are posting

Colin: HRC IS COMING ON STRONG JUST ASK HER SUPPORTERS ON THIS THREAD STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE GOV'T PLZ.

No, my analogy was they are people who know how to play to the masses, while not really being genuine.

Okay...

Can't we disagree without me being a troll?

Is the "C" for "controversial"?

Yes, we can, Colin, and we need more HRC/GOP supporters on this thread, I think (they enliven the conversation). Seriously, Obama's as deep on policy issues as HRC is. She's a bit wonkier in delivering her message, but he's no slouch in that regard, either. The fact that he is a hypnotic, powerful speaker shouldn't be held against him.

(See, e.g., last Democratic debate in California).

who is the jim gaffigan of politics?

ron paul is the doug stanhope of politics

I think that you can tell a lot from someone's body language...

http://www.softe4u.com/images/blm_cover.jpg

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/3317122.jpg

"Ask not, what your monkey business can do for you..."

shocker wikipedia entry is empty yo

The fact that he is a hypnotic, powerful speaker shouldn't be held against him.

Exactly. But, to be fair, he's so incredibly good it's kind of spooky. I don't know that I've ever heard such an intrinsically attractive, inspiring voice. I can see how it might be alarming to more paranoid types.

I don't know that I've ever heard such an intrinsically attractive, inspiring voice.

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Hitler11cx.jpg

HI BOYS HERE I AM

shocker wikipedia entry is empty yo

Add a closed parenthesis at the end.

Sure. I'm also nervous about "cults of personality," and in some respects, I can see that concern about Obama. But he isn't a screaming facist, or an intentionally dense partisan. He's cool and rationale and appeals to the same "high-minded reformist" that many before him have appealed to, without raising the slightest concerns.

(xp)

Colin is basically making a dumber-sounding version of the argument my mom was making to me the other day. She said that she was intersted in Obama, but was turned off watching one of his speeches, which she said felt empty (would have rather heard him talk policy than general change/hope/etc., I think). She's voting Hilary on experience + being a woman.

ok my non-troll-kill response is to quote matt yglesias one more goddam time:

One anti-Obama meme that I notice has gotten a lot of support even among people sympathetic to his cause is the notion that he's somehow shallow or insufficiently well-versed in policy matters. Obviously, I can't crawl into either candidate's brain and take a look around, but this idea doesn't seem to me to be especially well-supported by the evidence. Instead, it seems to draw support from a kind of implicit Law of Conservation of Virtues -- the pretty girl can't be smart, the not-so-good-looking guy must be really nice -- that has people notice that Clinton is well-versed in policy but isn't a charismatic figure, and Obama is charismatic so it "must" be that he's not well-versed in policy. He's cool and she's the nerd.

This suits the media's taste for parallels and lazy narratives into which events can be squeezed. But there's really not much basis for it.

For one thing, these takes tend to have a certain vague quality to them and often are offered by people who don't, themselves, have a particular aptitude for policy.

...

UPDATE: On the conservation of virtues point, note that everyone agrees that Bill Clinton is both very well-versed in policy (like his wife) and a charismatic figure. There's no fundamental tension here.

That youtube ad = "I Am Trying to CHANGE Your Heart"

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Hitler11cx.jpg

HI BOYS HERE I AM

-- Catsupppppppppppppp dude 茄蕃, Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:40 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

http://bestuff.com/images/images_of_stuff/210x600/godwins-law-9796.jpg
xpost

Three blue is ridiculous. One colorless.

Does Godwin's Law apply if you ACCUSE someone of calling someone a Nazi?

just to clarify: the Counterpunch column was about the history of the Dems thwarting the will of the voters for the nomination, not equating fucking Hart's oratory to fucking Obama's.

i guess not, you can't play the card for them xpost

Yglesias' take seems equally vague?

dude i broke godwin's on this thread like two weeks ago!! it's all alles sturmabteilung alles zeit in here now, fair game

xp the part under ellipsis there is several paragraphs about obama and policy experience/knowhow. i clipped it.

the history of the Dems thwarting the will of the voters for the nomination

A candidates reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a super delegate for?

Yglesias' take seems equally vague?

-- daria-g, Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:46 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

how so? its a critique of other ppl's take. or are you referring to his views outside that post? if so i also disagree