funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

look, if this was about you not liking 'in the morning' on a general one track radio pop chart basis then i wouldn't have got my cloak out the drycleaners - for better or worse that's fair game, and while i think it's still a great tune with its own palpable merits anyway, i do actually agree with you in the sense that it surely is freighted with more meaning and implicit possibility and such for some than for others.

but that's not all you were saying though- and imo it's improper to bring ambition into it (to impress whom, in what context? the international retard standard of wonky noises, europop, and timbaland knockoffs? stevem music? 'in the morning' and fuzzy logik in general IS pretty daring in scope wrt funky as it goes!) and again, something like the nomenclature (the understatement/familiarity/ nationalism that's naff for you is psychologically massively important to the scene - it thrives on not being a new thing just as much as it does, among other things.)(a lesser point really, just my pet wheeze at the mo.)

the rest of the slander is based on more general zzz ilx sediment over the years and probably reuqires group counselling that the world is best not bored by. but i will say it's all kinda sadly ironic cos if ever there was a music with carefee boundaries you could theoretically prosper in it's most likely funky.

btw for all the top crump card compilers out there some jams immediately springing to mind that i like more than 'in the morning' (and are in the same popularity ballpark) are perempay n dee's TIME TO LET GO (i go bit mad when the drop bounds in every time)(and also have the strongest soulful house weakness round these parts i wager), teedra rerub, and even somehow attica pessante's 'make it funky for me' which is less impressive in every way to 'in the morning' but just lovably corny like an old friend.

track i hate... roska, 'whats in your handbag'. that was appalling.

haha "top crump". off to sell that patent to the daily sport now.

yeah that roska tune was shit. but hes not been that impressive since his first 12 IMO. that untold remix he did at least had a bit more groove than untolds version but i prefer when his stuff leaps out at you a bit more.

i came to realise over time that roska's coldest ever tune imo is the never-rated 'do you believe in love'.

that recent 'laavvvly day' geezer tune/remix of his that tim keeps giving the side-eye to i think is okay. well no, objectively it is clearly balls but in context it's doing its thing, honest.

ambition (and/or imagination) is pivotal to my criticism here tho and it's done on a reasonably (but probably rockist) musical basis. this should not be confused with 'where's the innovation' kpunk style moaning (obv it is still moaning tho yes). mainly i brought up ambition because it really sounds to me like they wrote a tune with ringtones in mind more than . it's actually a v similar argument to the one i made about the la roux production (but they're worse because they're actually trying to do something 'arty' and more sophisticated, but failing imo).

argh unfinished sentence there but hopefully you get the point even if you don't agree with it

The problem with the "it's just a ringtone" argument is that it overlooks the big bleeding singer right dead centre in the middle of the track.

Really want an 'Inflation' ringtone now.

steve this is the exact same argument you came with re: taylor swift.

sometimes you have to meet the song halfway to discover its merits, not just wait for it to tick predetermined boxes. and then you'd discover that 'in the morning' is very much an ambitious and imaginative song, (tho) that's not all there is to it. in funky sets it's this massive ray of sunshine which is usually substantially lighter and looser than what surrounds it, often it'll be one of the peaks that a dj builds a set around. and on pop radio, it literally sounds like nothing else - as much as it's reminiscent of 2-step, even that's more in spirit than in the nuts & bolts of the sound. um and it's also quite ambitious to make a tune like that which still sounds as familiar, as if it's always existed, as 'in the morning'.

that doesn't refute the argument at all tho given it's based pretty much entirely on the track's music (having a singer on top is largely irrelevant here altho it's not like it's big or powerful vocal performance anyway?) xpost

um what it is ALL ABOUT egypt's vocal

lex you're praising the track based on it's context and position among other things whereas i'm attacking it as a standalone thing. i get how the former can be important but i don't think this (nor the sense of it being 'timeless') demonstrates ambition on the author's part. it's not like it's been made specifically as a dj tool.

'In The Morning' is intended to provide the answer to world peace, the cure for cancer and will make the problem of erectile dysfunction a thing of the past for men everywhere.

LET YOUR LOVE COME IN
LET YOUR LOVE COME IN

lex you're praising the track based on it's context and position among other things whereas i'm attacking it as a standalone thing

as rtc has already pointed out, the qualities you're citing require some sort of context to make sense - ambition and imagination - by what/whose scale are you measuring this?

xpost i thought this song was about morning glory

IN THE MORNING, YOU KNOW IT'S GONNA BE ALRIGHT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InKYrgNVLXs

steve this is the exact same argument you came with re:taylor swift.life

I actually think I might like some of this stuff but have never made any effort to listen to it. A car was pulled up outside my flat recently playing some v us garagey tracks which I felt had the hallmarks of this sound as opposed to being old house records or whatever, kinda made me think I should actually make an effort. there's so much music though it's hard to find the time.

by what/whose scale are you measuring this?

MY OWN, LIKE ALL CRITICS OF ALL ART EVER HAVE DONE!

the thing about in the morning is that it sounds very unlike any other funky tracks out there so its really like an i luv u type thing where it doesnt need to be judged by the context of the rest of The Scene but if you did want to look at it from that POV then it actually becomes even better as it sounds nothing like anything else in it (if you prize that sort of thing above everything else that is) - so if that doesnt - ambition, then i dunno what would really.

i meant, 'if that doesnt = ambition'

*sigh*

The thing about criticising a track for a lack of "ambition" is that you're almost certainly disconnected or refusing to connect with what it's trying to achieve in the first place. Like when L0u1s J4gg3r used to criticise every guitar record for not being a ten minute psychedelic rock epic with an extra four minutes of noise on the end.

yes but WHAT ARE YOUR YARDSTICKS OF AMBITION steve - ambition and imagination don't exist in a vacuum! i talked about two difft possible contexts for 'in the morning' - the funky scene and mainstream pop radio. neither suited you. so - what and who are you measuring it against? by comparison to what and whom is 'in the morning' unambitious and unimaginative?

plus y'know the context of other songs like this over the years of which there have been many and which have a richer sound, more depth and detail musically and technically - the kind of thing which tends to boost the evocation intended greatly if that kind of thing is the main reason you love music at all

xposts

So yes, exactly like Louis then.

99 per cent of the time someone's desperate wrangling and "I just don't get this???" is completely stupid, no offence Steve, we all do it. just take a deep breath, put the kettle on, make some tea, and then think "why did I even bother?"

no not really like louis at all, come on. dissing a track because you hear it and can instantly think of ways it could be just as populist and as much if not more fun but also richer and more sophisticated from a musical and technical pov, even taking into account it's context and target audience. pretentious (ok that aspect of it is like louis but so what) but reasonable objection. i wouldn't normally push it this much but i really thought the track just sounded shit and not just because it was on youtube.

That Young Nate/Ill Blu remix jacks the guitar from "Closer", yeah?

Yes I think so.

"that recent 'laavvvly day' geezer tune/remix of his that tim keeps giving the side-eye to i think is okay. well no, objectively it is clearly balls but in context it's doing its thing, honest."

Yeah this is how I feel about it, it annoys me and I want to hate it but the arrangement is top-notch, love all the bits where Roska loops snatches of the vocal "ya-ey, ya-ey" etc.

Roska's past 6 months have been odd, he reminds me a lot of Wookie - amazing initial tunes and then afterwards everything gets better and better produced but the tracks themselves seem overthought and simultaneously hollow - certainly less affecting. Only with Roska it's all these primitive house or broken beat references rather than soul etc. Though primitive house would be a great idea for a reference point in most instances.

Or maybe it's just that they have similar sounding basslines.

"Hey Cutie", the track he gave away on the Rinse site, is good. Also the track on the Fantastic 4 ep is good too. My favourite thing he's done this year though is he remix of Darkus Beat Company's "Promises", which probably wins because the source material was so strong in the first place.

One thing I wanted to note about how "In The Morning" works "in the mix" is that the beat is really jarring and unexpected feeling, instantly recognisable when it starts to come in even relative to funky generally, where the likelihood of recognising a tune by its drum programming alone is very high anyway. And then you get these little shouts and sighs from Egypt to confirm "yes, it's that tune!" before the synths start percolating in the background. I think the intro is edited out of the radio version though.

"(the understatement/familiarity/ nationalism that's naff for you is psychologically massively important to the scene - it thrives on not being a new thing just as much as it does, among other things.)(a lesser point really, just my pet wheeze at the mo.)"

I think this is really important - not just in the sense of being important to how funky works, but in the sense that I think, if you don't get it and appreciate how it works in funky then funky will never totally be "for you".

It's also the part of funky that I find hardest to write about in a way that both pinpoints it and captures its "significance".

what shows/mixes is everyone listening to at the mo btw?

i'm really enjoying the greenmoney ones archived here - http://www.brooklynradio.net/brooklynradio/greenmoney/

as someone who has completely missed this whole scene - where should i begin? any particular mix?

just get disc 2 of the crazi cousins album. pretty much all you need for a starter pack.

Caught the Hessle Audio crew (Ramadanman, Ben UFO and Pangaea) doing a b2b 3 hour set at the Freerotation festival on the weekend. Awesome cross-genre skills, playing loads of funky but mixed superbly with deep house, dubstep and loads of glassic UK garage from Vincent J Alvis 'Body Killin' to 24Hour Experience 'Together'. Awesome stuff.

And they managed to get the usually fairly quiet Room 2 absolutely rammed!

Hessle Audio totally on top of things right now.

I don't think the Crazi Cousinz 2nd disc is that amazing actually. But then I'd probably big up my favourite radio sets over any of the commercially available mixes I've heard.

some of the best funky mixes for me have been the ones that faze has posted on this thread. the trouble with the CC one is that it's a very obvious primer way past the point when any of us (on this thread) need a primer - i'm guessing it'd be an excellent entry point, though no more or less so than the geeneus bonus disc or the MoS comp (actually that last one is probably what i'd go for).

oh yeah and the 'in the morning' thread on the popjustice forum (i know i know, should never go there) will make you want to stab people.

this i gotta see...

I like the MoS comp best if only because the Footloose mix in particular really starts to get at what makes UK funky so distinctive, esp. all those ravey carnivalesque tracks.

I don't think the Crazi Cousinz 2nd disc is that amazing actually. But then I'd probably big up my favourite radio sets over any of the commercially available mixes I've heard.

Any particular suggestions, Tim?

1) Marcus Nasty Deja Vu FM sets from March - May last year, my favourites being the ones with Shantie & Quincy, and with Shantie & Rankin
2) Hard House Banton & Dubplate Wonder on Deja Vu FM 04.11.2008
3) Hard House Banton & Dubplate Wonder on Deja Vu FM 25.11.2008
4) Marcus Nasty and various MCs on Rinse FM 26.11.2008
5) Marcus Nasty on Rinse FM 15.01.2009
6) Mak 10 with Shantie on Deja Vu 26.03.2009
7) Mak 10 with Shantie on Rinse 22.04.2009
8) Fantastic 4 on Rinse FM 30.05.2009

Toby - I think lengthy Rinse FM sets without tracklistings are all well and good but not the best starting point. I can't vouch for the mixing on that Ministry of Sound comp but there are A LOT of the big tunes on there and as a result it's probably the best place to start. If you don't like anything on there it's pretty much safe to say you won't like funky.

(If I get time this weekend I can send you some kind of Rough Guide yousendit MP3 primer type thing as well, along the lines of the one Lex sent round last year).

i dont think i can ID that lfo sampling mr roach track everyone keeps talking about. i swear ive heard it on sets and on ads (theres some funky ads on rinse at the mo which have some great tracks as the beds but i dont know what they are) but i cant find it on the net to check its the one i think it is.

Don't worry, it's not much cop. People only talk about it because it samples a tune they already know and, y'know, history and such.

Meanwhile, WAD is finally on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juzk7MqnrBM

Love this tune so so so much. And feel vaguely pleased by all the puzzled comments from dubstep fans.