Continuing with CDs?

btw chihuahuau thank you for all yr posts here, very educational

I want more A/Bs... lol

^^Sounds like a new thread idea...

I can’t figure out why CDs from the ‘90s, including old favorites, sounds so muddy to me now, in comparison to modern discs (when played in the same player). Are they mastered differently now?

Late to this, but yes, mastering is different, and I think it comes down to a matter of taste. I have the opposite experience where I think most pop music is now mastered with a grating top end and upper midrange. When I burned a compilation of "singles" from the 2010s (basically stuff from albums or even artists I don't like that much beyond the one song), I ended up re-EQing the top end and upper midrange the same way across the board, taking out several decibels in almost every case. I think this kind of boost was becoming more prevalent around the mid-'90s and it was especially bad during the end of the '90s through the mid-'00s. It also seemed to coincide with brickwall compression. All of those things aren't quite as bad anymore but it's still there on most music today. I don't like it because I think it's unnatural - to me, it blatantly sounds like someone spiking the treble and I find it irritating. As soon as I smooth out that top end, it's no longer grating and it typically brings out the vocals - voices sound more natural and I even have an easier time making out the song's lyrics.

I think there's a common notion that boosting the treble brings out "more detail," but it's pretty deceptive. Crank up the "sharpness" feature on your television - some people say that's more detail too, but the picture looks unnatural and terrible to me.

Part of me also wonders if the problem is compounded by iPods/phones and ear buds becoming so prevalent over the past 20 years - I hear this all the time from otolaryngologists and neurotologists, but it's stunning how hearing problems have become much more common with even teenagers having the kind of issues you'd expect from someone much, much older. When your hearing is damaged, the first thing that goes is the upper frequencies, and there's even a running joke of sorts among engineers that there's a "sweet spot" they can boost that older clients will approve because that's where they've lost their hearing after years of performing without ear protection.

Perfect example cited here, published just 5 months ago:

“Compared to 10 or 20 years ago, the biggest thing related to hearing is the amount of noise exposure in the world today,” said Yu-Tung Wong, MD, an otolaryngologist and neurotologist at Cedars-Sinai. “Everybody grows up with a set of earbuds in their ears.”

“Listening to loud music with earbuds or headphones can cause damage, because they’re in your ear canal or adjacent to your ear,” said Abhita Reddy, MD, a pediatric otolaryngologist at Cedars-Sinai. “And concerts expose patients to loud noises for long periods of time.”

An estimated 17% of teenagers and 19% of people in their 20s have signs of noise-induced hearing loss, according to research. And more than 1 billion young adults worldwide are at risk of permanent, avoidable hearing loss that’s caused by unsafe listening practices, according to the World Health Organization.

“Permanent hearing loss related to noise lasts a lifetime, and it sets you up for problems like tinnitus—ringing in the ears—and difficulty hearing when there’s background noise,” said Mia Miller, MD, an otolaryngologist and neurotologist at Cedars-Sinai. “Once you recognize a problem, do something about it.”

Another thing - I have a relative who now has major hearing loss, and he's been stubborn about getting hearing aids. It's been a huge pain in the ass getting him to just go to the doctor and get some made for him. The big point that's being made to him now is that if he continues to forgo a hearing aid, the risk of dementia becomes much higher. That's really troubling to me - I've always taken care of my hearing far more than others thanks to a jr. high classmate who was already partially deaf from hearing damage, but I think most people are very cavalier about potential hearing damage. I've had two relatives who had bad dementia, and if there's a strong connection to hearing loss, that's definitely not something I want to mess around with.

Yeah there certainly is a large relative risk increase for dementia, and hearing aids reduce that risk significantly. There’s debate about why they’re correlated, but the correlation is very clear.

But Fritz hit the off switch on the Krells. And Kurt delivered the words the two of them could never come back from.

“I need you to die slow, m-----f-----,” he told his father. “Die slow.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/interactive/2024/ken-fritz-greatest-stereo-auction-cost/?itid=lk_interstitial_manual_10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b2IOOhJmxw

I want more A/Bs... lol

― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Saturday, January 13, 2024 1:29 AM bookmarkflaglink

i can prepare others if you have any track suggestions and if i can torrentlegally source cd rips of the relevant masters somewhere

but in the spirit of "teaching someone to fish", it's easy to do loudness normalised A/B tests of arbitrary audio files with any ReplayGain compatible audio player, like foobar2000 for example.
it's a matter of enabling RG normalisation during playback in the player (using track gain as source), (re-)scanning both A and B and (re-)tagging them with the track gain value, and comparing

I’d be interested in hearing comparisons of the original Bob Dylan CDs with the remasters that came out in the 2000s… I think I bought a few of those and Did Not Like, sold them back; the sound was too “sweetened” and weird (in the case of Street-Legal, I think the album was also remixed… and yeesh, not for me).

The 2003 remasters? I think they've been mostly superseded by MFSL's SACD's, which for a while could be had for like $15 a pop (maybe even less if you were able to use Music Direct's coupons before they stopped applying them to those titles).

The old CD's were a really mixed bag - some were done from inferior tapes (especially Highway 61 Revisited, Nashville Skyline), some were digitally remixed (Bringing It All Back Home, Blonde on Blonde, John Wesley Harding)...the only old CD's I hung on to (for vinyl-era albums) were Street-Legal, Slow Train Coming, Shot of Love and Oh Mercy. Street-Legal I may dump if I ever get the remaster from the 2013 Complete Albums box set - that's also from the original mix and the newer mastering is an improvement. (The 2003 remaster used the 1999 remix.) The old Slow Train Coming CD was done by Joe Gastwirt back when he was mastering CD's for CBS and Shot of Love was done by Vic Anesini. Those albums are not exactly favorites, but the old CD's are dirt cheap and the mastering for Slow Train Coming has not been bettered on CD. With Shot of Love, the 2013 box set may be better, but I haven't checked. (The 2013 box set simply recycles the 2003 remaster which is a little grating in the upper midrange.) The original Oh Mercy CD is a straight transfer of the digital master. That album was digitally mixed down to a standard PCM master tape, so you can't go wrong with a CD that's essentially a clone.

*(The 2013 box set simply recycles the 2003 remaster for Slow Train Coming which is a little grating in the upper midrange.)

Thanks for the info… I’d like to hear that 2013 Street-Legal.

Planet Waves (my favorite) is another one where I bought the remaster, and couldn’t deal. I think I have Blonde on Blonde, or one of the other early ones. Honestly, I have BoB on several formats, I don’t think I really love any of them.

(I have a mono vinyl reissue, on Sundazed maybe?, that sounds like #%*)

y'know a lot of these problems can be solved by listening to the original LPs ;)

I mean a good copy of an original US stereo Planet Waves LP is probably $20 these days but I bet it sounds better than any of these CD options

that's disappointing about the Sundazed vinyl reissue though, I expect better from them. my mono reissue of the 13th Floor Elevators debut that they did totally rules.

sorry I know this is the CD thread, carry on (the only Dylan I have on CD is the complete Basement Tapes and an original US CD of "Love And Theft"

I am pretty happy with my OG Planet Waves CD (…I grew up w/the OG vinyl, tho!). I had bought the reissue just to see if it was “better”

Because so many songs and outtakes were left behind, one thing Dylan fans often debate or discuss is what an album SHOULD have included. Planet Waves is one of those for me, though the only thing I did was drop "You Angel You" and add "Nobody 'Cept You." So even though I bought the MFSL SACD (another $15 clearance item), I usually listen to the custom disc I made. (Also the MFSL SACD accidentally clipped off that quiet guitar opening on "Dirge" so I spliced that in from the 2003 SACD remaster with a small EQ tweak just to get it to match.)

dylan originals vs 00s:

https://mega.nz/folder/d65UkQqB#OSa1EeUGWcOLV--y3ijp4w
https://mega.nz/folder/8nwXhbxB#nWVtaqVqjLgu68grbAhweA
https://mega.nz/folder/czYyXQIQ#JQzyivel2FoeMddH7om14Q
https://mega.nz/folder/o7xnWLAK#JIjtqaqtXTLMjWtHMIHrcw

My mono Sundazed Blonde on Blonde sounds good, it’s not hotel California here

I also don’t need all my rock music to pop and snap like a chili peppers record or something

Thanks for the info… I’d like to hear that 2013 Street-Legal.

can't find the 2013 remaster, sorry

planet waves original vs 2003 vs mfsl
https://mega.nz/folder/s2pQ0CAI#fwIMYNgyfFssKVRYgognAg

Thanks for these!! I’ll review them when I’m back at the computer w/headphones

So the Yamaha CD player that I bought turned out to be too finicky. Certain CDs will skip slightly in certain passages. Now I have to try to figure it out if I can return it under warranty. Disappointing.

my onkyo did that, stabilized the legs a little more and seemed to clear it up

That might be worth a try. It's a maddening problem. If I could do something short of returning it that solves the issue, that would save a lot of hassle.

Stabilizing didn’t seem to help so in my desperation I decided to try to clean the lens, which seems to be the only possible DIY fix that’s worth a try, although the Yamaha website specifically tells you not to do it. It required a screwdriver and some fairly minor disassembly but I managed to get access to the lens and wipe it gently with some rubbing alcohol. Fingers crossed that it works.

My Oppo BDP-83 still chugs along 14 years from purchase, though the remote and panel buttons can be a little difficult. It's better able to handle discs that are scratched or have bronzing than other players.

For some reason, discs in huge classical sets like the George Szell Columbia Albums collection can be impossible for some players to read, even though they're clean and not especially long. I don't know if it has something to do with the "grooves" printed on the label side or if the discs are manufactured poorly, even though they look fine. But the Oppo can always play them.

Before the Yamaha I had a 90s vintage Sony 5-disc changer that was built like a tank and could play just about anything without skipping, only problem is that sound quality has improved a bit since then, which was nagging at the back of my mind.

I picked up a NAD C 451i from a local record store back at the end of 2015, just before I started on a hi-fi upgrade odyssey, to replace an old listening post CD player that I got for free and never really worked reliably. I got a new NAD amp recently with only one line in so I've switched to using the 541i as a transport via the coax. It sounds good. Don't think I'll be able to replace it for the £40 I paid when it goes - it's got to be over 20 years old now.

if you don't want to spend a lot, it might be cheaper to just get anything that spins a disc (dvd player or whatever) off craigslist for $20 - as long as it has an optical out - and buy an affordable outboard DAC like a Schitt Modi

but the jitter

With these older players the output of the laser drifts down over time to the point where read errors occur. There are usually pots inside the mechanism which allow you to adjust the output power and the gain of the reading circuit - obviously requires measuring equipment to adjust correctly but if you have a dead player it can be worth finding the service manual and cautiously adjusting them.
Many players from niche brands also use quite standard optical reader mechanisms for which replacements can be bought on eBay. More fuss than finding a used player but if you have one that’s special, it can bring it back.
The number one failure culprit is heat: it kills laser diodes. So if you have a stack of components, put the cd player underneath anything which generates warmth such as amplifiers.

I'm replacing my car CD player tomorrow and probably getting the Nakamichi, which is dumb, it's just an imprint and has nothing to do with the legendary Nakamichi Dragon tape deck -- the company has changed ownership at least once since those days -- but, you know, imprimatur & whatnot, evidently the Nakamichi sucks for car phone calls but I will literally never use the car stereo system to take a call so w/e

I bought an 80s Nak CD deck used, to replace a CD changer in an Alfa I bought, and it was an absolute gem soundwise. Probably wouldn't work with current car control bus systems tho.
https://cdn.snsimg.carview.co.jp/carlife/images/UserCarPat/1693781/p1.jpg
Damn, I need to retrieve that player I realise now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGSzvl_F9ag-

A lot came with mp3 decoders, but did any dvd/blu-ray players play FLACs (though I guess at that point they should also accept USB and the game is up)?

I think they play all that stuff now

The USB audio interface in my Prius plays mp3s and good old WMAs

Oppo BDP-103 definitely plays FLAC's. I think the 93 does too. It may not be the most user-friendly interface to do so though.

If I had some painless way to convert all my CDs to FLAC, I would probably go that route. Someone should make a CD player that looks and acts like a regular CD player but in the background it rips every CD you play in it to FLAC, tags it, and stores it in an internal HD. Over time your collection gets digitized and then you can just play from the internal storage using some phone app or something.

that's what I did (ripped them all), it's easy to keep up now

went to Half-Price this past weekend and someone unloaded their entire REM CD collection so I filled in all my gaps (Reckoning, Monster, New Adventures in Hi-Fi)

If I had some painless way to convert all my CDs to FLAC, I would probably go that route.

Can you tell me what's good about FLACs relative to other formats? I download them when there's nothing else available, but I immediately convert them to my preferred everyday-listening format, which is 256 AACs. (Sonically indistinguishable from 320 MP3s.) FLACs are so inconvenient (iTunes won't play them) that I can't understand them being anyone's format of choice, but obviously they are.

what mac are you using that you're still on itunes?

unperson you can use ALAC which is interconvertible with FLAC and also lossless. I just kept a Mac sitting on a side table set to rip-and-eject each time a CD was inserted, I would swap the CD each time I walked past and one had ejected. Took a couple of months for ~2000 discs but that was it, now I just add Bandcamp purchases and rip new discs as they come in.

what mac are you using that you're still on itunes?

I refer to Music as iTunes the same way I refer to X as Twitter.

Many xp's to UMS - my simple back up plan is a cheap DVD player with a coax out. I saw one for £20 in the supermarket before Christmas and was tempted to buy it so the back up was there.

There's a kind of archival/psychological comfort with FLACs that nothing's been lost and you can reconstruct a bit-for-bit perfect copy of the original .wavs ripped from the CD or even better if it came from a higher resolution transfer rather than a CD, but for my ears, yeah I can't tell the difference.

It would be cool to have a hybrid listening format (I think FLACs do support more multitracks) for stems though -- could selectively listen to just the bass track on and justice for all...

I am team FLAC for life, yes I can still hear the difference even though I am an old punk with tinnitus, and you can always convert back to WAV if you wanna burn a CDR for the car or a friend or something

I use Vox as my music player these days, so I just rip every new CD to FLAC and play through that