Conservative Music / Conservative Politics

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(I wasn't being disingenous, I just misread the original post)

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:35 (seventeen years ago) link

chris martin's lyrics are the best of the three! they're not, like, good or anything, but i don't see anything particularly wrong in vague, generalist, not especially profound clichés which allow the listener to map their own experiences on to the song - you can see exactly how people might find a coldplay song personally resonant. i don't but there are parallels with how i listen to, i dunno, someone like alicia keys, whose lyrics follow much the same form (but she does it much much better).

gallagher/okereke lyrics are really ghastly, one for trying too hard, the other for not trying at all. nevertheless okereke is right here.

― lex pretend, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:36 (seventeen years ago) link

i think pushing kele o as some kind of innovator or even "arty" is pushing it but for all his faults the reason bloc party do seem to connect strongly with a lot of people is teh emos. i.e. they are the band that'll save your life for some kids, but then so are coldplay. nick sure you can hate on coldplay but denying that boneheaded platitudes can't be taken to the heart seems wrong. coldplay are a band seemingly designed for the listener to write their own meanings upon. bloc party are just slightly more targeted. i think in a political sense thou chris martin is bad thou, he seems to do that "i'll back who ever 'll get the job done" geldof style "pragmatism" which i feel will lead us, as it seeps into the wider culture, into a cameron government.

― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

Cute little brit indie bands might be conservative musically but do you really consider them conservative politically? Are they not classic late-capitalism liberals to a tee?

― frankie driscoll, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:44 (seventeen years ago) link

i think in a political sense thou chris martin is bad thou, he seems to do that "i'll back who ever 'll get the job done" geldof style "pragmatism" which i feel will lead us, as it seeps into the wider culture, into a cameron government.

-- acrobat, Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:39 PM (6 minutes ago)

bit of a leap from one thing to another! also blair's catchphrase is "what works" in re pfi etc. so martin could go either way.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

i mean your perceived sense of martin's politics will somehow seep into the voting choices of the people out there -- really? i doubt even a lennon could have that effect.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

And why is conservatism in music so bad? Anti-conservatism is the preserve of the individual..and the fragmentation of society

Conservatism in music can be a good thing..without conservatism you would have no genres, no continuity, no shared culture, no framework, no community, no belonging

― frankie driscoll, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:49 (seventeen years ago) link

in britain conservatism means destroying communities in favour of the atomized individual. most conservatives are too stupidd to realize this.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:51 (seventeen years ago) link

The difference between Martin and Okereke is that Martin has no pretention (in his music) of being intelligent or educated; for someone with a degree he writes embarassingly imbecilic and platitudinous lyrics. He has precious little concept of innovation in music.

But, Nick, how do you judge intentions? For all we know Chris Martin thinks he's writing The Waste Land.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:51 (seventeen years ago) link

i think the lex is right re. martin. he does what he does and as a non-fan of all three bands, coldplay's lyrics are less grating -- simply because they're barely there at all -- than bloc party's or oasis's.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 16:56 (seventeen years ago) link

If he does, Alfred, then he's a complete and utter moron.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:26 (seventeen years ago) link

I'd posit that Martin's enunciation makes his vocals and thus his lyrics too prominant for me to ignore. Okereke's on the new BP album, too. With Liam (and Noel) these days I am so astonished that either of them bothers to sing at all when they each honk like a throat-cancer victim with asthma that I don't notice the lyrics. Also I just don't fucking listen to their turgid unmusical shite anymore.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:30 (seventeen years ago) link

"Whatever", that was a good song.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 17:32 (seventeen years ago) link

heh enrique i'm not saying chris martin himself is influencing vast swathes of people but summat like live 8 and all that apolitical vaguely self-agrandizing humanism must have some meaning, some effect. whether it'll go all the way to the ballot box who knows. maybe it's a positon beyond mere voting. that's a bit kpunk innit.

― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 18:51 (seventeen years ago) link

it already happened when labour decided to ditch being labour in the mid-nineties and natural tories voted for them because they were embarrassed to follow their true calling.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:05 (seventeen years ago) link

It would be interesting to see Kele Okereke explain exactly why recycling The Beatles is worse than recycling Gang Of Four.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:09 (seventeen years ago) link

(Other than Kele Okereke's own personal taste probably suggests Gang Of Four is a better band)

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

in britain conservatism means destroying communities in favour of the atomized individual.

In politics, yes. This has absolutely zero to do with conservatism in music though.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

Did anyone see Stelfox's "Epiphanies" piece on the back page of the Wire this month?
"Real music listened to by Real people" - laughable.

― bidfurd, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

no. please tell more.

― acrobat, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 20:56 (seventeen years ago) link

"In politics, yes. This has absolutely zero to do with conservatism in music though.

-- Geir Hongro, Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:10 PM (Yesterday)"

yeah i know. i don't think political conservatism is that easily tracked to musical conservatism. both terms are woolly anyway, and music's relationship with technology (which isn't necessarily un-conservative) makes it even more complicated.

― That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:02 (seventeen years ago) link

Cultural conservatism mightn't be directly trackable to political conservatism. But they sure do wear similar shoes.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link

"Cultural conservatism" seems like a very, very wooly term to me.

― Scik Mouthy, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Okay, longhand during boozy inaccuracy. Fear of "complicated" ideas feels reactionary to me.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 22:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Cultural conservatism mightn't be directly trackable to political conservatism. But they sure do wear similar shoes.

But then, recent political conservatism is considerably more about economical liberalism and capitalism than it is about cultural conservatism.

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Not on ILX.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 17 April 2007 23:56 (seventeen years ago) link

ILX (or at least ILM) is about music, not politics.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 00:36 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/jmurphy/JPT3500file/JPT3500.imagefile.4/Artfile.14th/Portrait.ikkyu.jpg

― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 00:44 (seventeen years ago) link

[img][Removed Illegal Link]

― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 00:44 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.bruteprop.com/v1/brutemag/stories/twat/twat_03.jpg

― Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 00:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Did anyone see Stelfox's "Epiphanies" piece on the back page of the Wire this month?
"Real music listened to by Real people" - laughable.

I saw that -- I usually really like Dave's stuff, but there were a couple of things in that piece that bothered me too.

― byebyepride, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 03:36 (seventeen years ago) link

"Fear of "complicated" ideas feels reactionary to me"

Reactionary doesn't necessarily means conservative. And "complicated" doesn't necessarily rhyme with "modern" - very often modernity is just reductionism.
But maybe its just the conservative in me. :)

― Marco Damiani, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 05:36 (seventeen years ago) link

It would be interesting to see Kele Okereke explain exactly why recycling The Beatles is worse than recycling Gang Of Four.

Geir, did you actually read the quote from Okereke?

― Billy Dods, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir sees a black person mentioning The Beatles and assumes it was a derogatory comment.

― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:26 (seventeen years ago) link

He mentions Oasis, from what I can see, and it looks like the typical critique of Oasis for revisiting the past.

Personally I like both Oasis and Bloc Party, for the exact same reasons that fans of "modern" music styles don't.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:33 (seventeen years ago) link

So my point is Okereke should rather defend Oasis rather than attack them, because he is doing exactly the same thing himself. Except I suppose he is one of those Beatles haters.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:34 (seventeen years ago) link

Shut the fuck up you fucking idiot.

― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Geir's very presence on this thread is akin to him painting himself luminous orange and dancing about on top of 30ft illuminated letters reading 'HI MARCELLO, CALL ME A NAZI PLEASE!'

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:38 (seventeen years ago) link

So, do we think that Geir's trolling adds to the gaiety of the ILx nation or do we regard it as a tiresome encumbrance to otherwise interesting discussion which needs to be dealt with formally?

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:41 (seventeen years ago) link

In a world we have Montgomery Gentry can Oasis really be called politically conservative?

― frankie driscoll, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:44 (seventeen years ago) link

I can't deal with Geir at all anymore. He reduces me to incoherant profanity. His ridiculous nonsense is completely intolerable to me now. It's not funny anymore and it doens't stimulate debate. Can I kill him, please?

― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Political conservativism and political liberalism aren't relevent in Britain anymore. There's what encourages capitalism and what doesn't; the Tories tried it with small government in the 80s, and Labour are doing it with big government now, the end result is the same. A rich, amoral country teetering on a tipping point.

― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Just don't reply to him.

I want to know more about the Stelfox Wire piece!

― Groke, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:50 (seventeen years ago) link

That reminds me, I must go and find the university's copy now.

― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:54 (seventeen years ago) link

Both conservatism and liberalism encourage capitalism. The only difference being that liberalism encourages it more

― frankie driscoll, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 08:57 (seventeen years ago) link

It's all very well saying "just don't reply to him" but it's inconvenient and rather depressing for him repeatedly to hijack otherwise good threads with his one post, rephrased in forty thousand different ways. There's been an epidemic of it this week for whatever reason, and I'm not the only one getting fed up with his constant butting in.

Although he is admittedly responsible for a few good and interesting views when he chooses to stick to his field, I'm bored with his continuous crashing in. We know he likes the Beatles and white guitar music. We know he's not keen on hip hop. We don't need to be told five million fucking times per day.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, I feel very much at home here, because I am a cultural conservative belonging very much on the political left. Which is not at all hard to combine considering the political right has absolutely nothing to do with cultural conservatism.

― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:23 (seventeen years ago) link

nick you don't think some socially liberal / conservative things still play a role? i mean the daily mail is still in business. not all the identity battles have been won...

― acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:24 (seventeen years ago) link

That's kind of my point - the identity battles haven't been won or lost, they've been superceeded and thus ignored. The guffaw over William getting dumped at the weekend is evidence enough of that.

I think... a certain type of person who might have once been politically active possibly is not now, because politics has evolved (or devolved) into being almost entirely about economics.

― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 09:56 (seventeen years ago) link

i went to an anti-bnp rally fairly recently. the thing that struck me was that the hardcore (Nf types / trade union types on the other) on both sides were two sides of the same coin. both totally disenfranchised.

― acrobat, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 10:01 (seventeen years ago) link

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