show etiquette

Lol yea I heard that last show

Pleasant fellow

What the message actually says is "if you like Pink Floyd but not Roger Waters' politics then you can fuck off to the bar." Which I think is something well worth saying.

Long show review whose structuring “hook” is the band berating the crowd for a lack of enthusiasm: https://racketmn.com/this-is-the-last-sleater-kinney-show-ill-ever-review

Oh yeah, saw that review by a former ilxor. Not a good look from Brownstein imho, although it might have been more gentle than "berating"

I’d never been called “tepid” quite so gently in all my life. Granted, Carrie Brownstein hadn’t directed her comment at me specifically; you might even say that I (notebook, pen, working, etc.) had something of an excuse for not exactly kickin’ up my heels, more so than the many paying customers nodding in subdued approbation for Sleater-Kinney at St. Paul's Palace Theatre on Saturday night.

Not that any of them—any of us—had some obligation to go crazy out there, as the singer/guitarist acknowledged even as she noted what she more euphemistically called our “shyness.” When she thanked us “for bringing whatever version of yourself here that you could tonight,” it came off as a genuine (if a tinge Portlandic) attempt to meet a reserved Minnesota audience where they stood.

although it might have been more gentle than "berating"

Yeah maybe I should’ve said “chiding”

It’s funny bc when we saw the Breeders recently, the crowd was very tepid. I just chalked it up to “tired Gen Xers,” but the crowd for Liz Phair at the same venue was much more lit.

My wife saw Madonna recently (much larger venue), and she said the crowd’s energy collapsed as soon as Madonna came onstage, in a weird way…

I was at the S-K show, "chiding" would still be far too strong

My thesaurus is coming up empty for synonyms of criticism milder than chiding, perhaps Sleater-Kinney are admitting that they themselves are the problem?

it's just a different vibe with MN audiences

I’ve seen plenty of shows in NYC where the crowd is just standing still. Esp for these older bands, are they expecting moshing?

xpost I just saw Unwound in Jersey City on Sunday and was in maybe the most violent mosh pit I've ever seen first hand. I think part of what made it terrifying was that so much of Unwound's whole thing is that many of their songs go from thrashing to more mellow passages very suddenly and then during the mellow parts I would forget that I was still in the pit and then I'd get my bones crunched as the more serious fans were ready to pounce the moment the band went back to thrashing. Super fun show and they played lights out.

On the note of show etiquette, there was an older couple that moved near the pit about halfway through the set (there was at least one older couple in the pit and they were having a blast) and the husband was being really standoffish towards the younger punks who were just having fun. The band played For Your Entertainment to close out the set and the pit opened up for the start of the song. The husband stood defiantly in the middle, refusing to clear out and kind of looked around daring everyone else to do something about it. Then he tried to fight one of the younger punks when the pit closed, but people pulled them away from each other and the old dude left.

I get not wanting to be in a mosh pit, but he very literally walked right into it.

Maybe Sleater-Kinney did expect moshing!

Standing on the edge of a mosh pit and getting pushed in classic or dud

We used to call that area on the edge of the pit the loony line, as you'd have to be a lunatic to stand there. Further forward of course you'd get the stagedivers landing on your head and giving you neck compressions. These days I prefer a nice comfy seat tbh.

how loony do you have to be to want to see a show without getting groped or kicked or injured?
mosh pits are a gigantic dud and always have been imo. same for crowd surfing or anything that puts bodies and hands into contact with each other.

unless it is a hi 5, that is ok

lech otm.

discussion here+on the sleater kinney topic reminded me when i intervened between two drunken souls the time we saw the sea+cake...

drunken soul #1 was being annoying since the opener. i won't run down all of their bullshit, but my patience was being tested. i was not the only one.

drunken soul #2 had reached their breaking point. unfortunately, they did a silly thing and flipped ds1's ballcap off their head. ds1 said some very violent things in a very violent way. nothing physical, but it was escalting. i was about 5 feet away+decided to speak up.

"GENTLEMAN. the happiest band in the world, who both of you paid money to see, is right there (points at stage)."

moment of clarity? idk, but ds2 walked away (with assistance from their friends).

big sigh. it was during "crossing line."

no, there was no "pit" at this show. it was the sea+cake ffs.

only time I was in a mosh pit was during Andrew WK, the people were super nice and picked up everyone who got knocked over. I imagine most mosh pits aren't like that

every mosh pit I've ever been in has been like that.

that's the mosh pit etiquette. Unless its a big metal band with teenagers at their first gigs who dont know the rules.

In the UK what we generally call moshing is actually pogoing anyway.

hey old school heads, here's a thing:
the first time i saw sonic youth (2006), there was no pit.

One thing with smoking being taken out of the clubs is you don’t have the lit cig in the mouth to deal with unruly people moshing outside the designated lunatic fringe. ‘oh did my lit cig hit yer face…ooops sorry, things going crazy you know…’

i feel like theres a middle way with this stuff, i love a good mosh pit but imo its also pretty easy not to hit or touch someone who clearly doesnt want to be hit or touched

like obv once in a great while you get people like the guy in Ubiquitor's story and thats a different thing, but moshing into ppl on the fringe who clearly dont want to be involved and being like "its a rock show what did you expect nerd" is disgusting savagery

When I saw Fucked Up, the pit was insane, just 10 sweaty bony dudes flinging their elbows everywhere. The whole floor cleared, all the women and smaller dudes and anyone who wasn’t in it to be beaten to shit pressed up against the walls. I was super disappointed the band didn’t say or do anything, in fact they seemed to enjoy it. Weird given what I know of their politics.

This is probably excessive in terms of thinking, but for me it’s just thinking ahead - “what kind of band is this?” “What is likely going to happen in the crowd in reaction to the music?” And then situating myself accordingly. I don’t see a lot of shows these days where pits are likely to erupt. The last one was Lightning Bolt, in 2018 and 2019, and I guessed accurately where the danger zone was and stayed far enough away from it to avoid getting sucked into the void.

Nothing wrong with the void as long as those within it have enough self-awareness to contain theirnon-violent mayhem to said void.

(2018 *or* 2019, I meant. And agreed, H.P.!)

re: moshing

Moshing can be incredibly fun at the right shows, as a bonding experience amongst super-excited fans. Moshing can also get you hurt, like my friend John, who broke his leg doing it.

Moshing is supposed to only include the willing. However, thanks to the laws of physics, even the most well-meaning people can take a tumble into innocent bystanders. And...there are lots of not-well meaning people in the pits.

I've made plenty of friends in pits. I've also been punched in the stomach (twice) by assholes taking cheap shots, and once kicked in the chest by someone who inexplicably took a flying leap at me.

so I have mixed feelings on it. which is to say I think it's perfectly fine whenever everybody abides by the accepted rules, and confines it to a localized area and nobody is there to hurt anybody or so intoxicated that they go crashing into other people just trying to watch the show.

but when even one or two people decide to act like assholes, it can easily ruin it.

also crowdkilling, the practice of deliberately harming people who aren't even in the pit, is fucking psychotic and everyone who does it should be arrested for assault. these dorks at deathcore shows that try to legitimize it by saying "why go to a show if you're just going to stand there" are pricks who have probably never suffered long-term debilitating injuries. but deathcore sucks so it doesn't surprise me that few of those dorks are there to actually listen to the music.

I was never a true pit warrior, but when I was going to shows with truly wild pits (Fishbone, Revolting Cocks, Circle Jerks, Ramones/GBH/Warzone, Suicidal Tendencies/Exodus/Pantera) in the late 80s and early 90s, there was absolutely a much better sense of etiquette — bands telling people from the stage to pick up anyone who fell over, etc. I definitely remember a palpable shift in atmosphere between 1989 and 1990, which took place for me at two different Red Hot Chili Peppers shows. The first one was a free outdoor gig in 1989; they were opening for Killing Joke, who I didn't stick around for because my friends had to leave, but the crowd was all punks and freaks bouncing off each other and having fun. The second gig was a headlining show at the Ritz (the "new Ritz" that used to be Studio 54) in NYC, and the crowd was full of shirtless dudes in backwards Duke hats punching people in the neck, and it sucked.

i always laugh at dorks who go to House of Blues shows in Orlando and think they'll get away with whatever they want. like...they have 2 active duty cops that hang by the door, and the security is pretty much zero tolerance, there are no warnings. normally not a fan of this level of enforcement presence obv because ACAB and I've seen security outright manhandle people at shows and festivals at other venues, but the people employed at the Orlando HOB aren't that type. maybe it's being on Disney property idk.

still the most amusing thing I saw was at a Bad Religion show, twenty seconds into their opener ("Suffer"), this guy was absolutely terrorizing people on the floor and he was ejected immediately. he didn't even make it halfway through their first song and his night was over. watching his face turn from that of a hellion to a whimpering dog in three seconds, I wish I had a screencap.

Co-sign the etiquette. The worst beating I ever took in a pit, and this was after years of death and thrash shows in the early 90s, was at Rev Horton Heat.

one of the longest controversial and still unresolved show etiquette debates came to a head last night in the most passive aggressive 'fight' I've ever seen at a show.

I still don't 100% know what started it, but the Madonna show being an arena show, and the show starting with mostly dance numbers, most people were standing.

in front of us, there was a lady with her friends who were standing, and this group of people two rows behind didn't like that, as they wanted to sit and couldn't see with them standing. I don't know if words were exchanged prior or what, but the people in back began shining their phone flashlight on the standers, and the standers in front started mouthing back and flipping them off every time they did it. It became obvious that they then were not going to sit again for the remainder of the show, out of pass-agg revenge. even during the ballads, the one instigator wouldn't sit.

this passive aggressive battle continued for about a half hour. it always looked like it was going to build to an actual fight but....never did because each side would then hear a song start that they liked and forget only to remember they hated each other two minutes later and restart it.

Security showed up after the 'skirmish' had long dissipated and one of the participants had actually left, when there was only 5 minutes left in the show.

but like...what IS really the accepted show etiquette for standing in an arena? mom and I sat often but the people in front of us didn't, but we didn't really get mad about it or say anything because I didn't feel like it was fair to harsh their vibe since we were taking a breather. but when I would stand I kept looking behind me to see if anybody was sitting because I'm a people pleaser who's always afraid of upsetting people.

i feel like it's kinda accepted that people are going to be standing at arena concerts, but is there an expectation that during certain songs, a la ballads, everyone sits to kinda give everyone a break? were the light shining dicks being children too?

idk....I never know what people's thoughts are on that. I usually go to shows in dingy clubs where it's not a thing.

Side issue, but imo the light shining dicks were being dicks because they lights probably distracted other attendees more than the standers themselves.

well distracted me enough that I kept paying attention to their little fight, yeah.

Seats are for sitting. It’s not a dancehall

counterpoint, it's a concert playing dance music.

(fwiw I would lean sitting myself, but I personally would find it hard to fault people for dancing to dance songs)

“Live to tell” is not dance music

tbh shit like this is why I never go to concerts that are seated

Is general admission usually cheaper than seats at arena shows? Sucks for older people who can't be on their feet for extended periods of time and are basically forced to look at people's backs the whole time.

xp - Yep, I'm sure that was the only song she performed all evening.

She probably also did “used to be my playground”

Is general admission usually cheaper than seats at arena shows? Sucks for older people who can't be on their feet for extended periods of time and are basically forced to look at people's backs the whole time.

― beard papa, Friday, April 5, 2024 4:15 PM bookmarkflaglink

at this particular one, there were no GA seats, as the floor was fully seated as well (and almost four figure ticket cost). even the nosebleeds though were expensive. yay concert economy in the 21st century

She probably also did “used to be my playground”

― calstars, Friday, April 5, 2024 4:16 PM bookmarkflaglink

sadly, no. the ballads were ....."Live to Tell", 30 seconds of "Crazy For You", 45 seconds of "Don't Cry for Me Argentina", "Take a Bow", and...if you count "Bad Girl". out of a 2 hour show.

so most of the songs were dancey, but not all.

I feel like if most ppl are standing (in your section or the show in general), that sets the tone, and you just have to roll with standers in front of you. Nothing wrong, I guess, with very politely asking someone to sit during a ballad, but they may not be cool about it (...you know how ppl can be); and I don't think they're in the wrong for choosing to stand. Obv this sucks for someone with limited mobility or who's unable to stand... not sure if there are seats with accommodations for that (but I doubt it?)

It would be weird for someone to be, like, the only one in their section standing – but not everyone would be self-conscious enough to even that (as you and I would be), and I guess then it's between them and the folks behind them.

*even avoid that

I almost saw a fight at a Crowded House show this past year. One guy stayed standing during a couple of newer songs, when of course most other people were sitting down (which is standard old people concert behavior). A few people behind him started grousing, with increased anger. The guy turned around and basically said, hey, this is my favorite band, I want to stand! The people behind him got even angrier, so the guy turned around entirely and started to approach his critics. Security intervened, calmed him down, and he finally sat. And like 2 seconds later the band started one of their hit songs and everybody stood up again.

I'm with calstars on this. If it's a seated venue sit the fuck down and don't obstruct the view of others sitting behind you. It's just basic good manners.

Yes. otherwise don’t be surprised to see yourself in the horrible savages thread