Star Trek: Classic or Dud?

yes it's underappreciated and it has a style and feel that is completely unique in all of trekdom. the 2001 influence is extremely strong and I enjoy that about it. It really makes the enterprise, space, everything feel huge for the first time, in fact, I'm not sure Trek ever felt that huge again.

_i actually think i've never seen the film before, it is even more boring than 2001 a space odyssey_

Felt like this was what they were going for, so I ended up embracing it.

I really liked this essay, interested in other's thoughts?

https://www.tor.com/2023/04/26/a-critical-division-of-starfleet-intelligence-section-31-and-the-normalization-of-the-security-state/comment-page-1/

“A Critical Division of Starfleet Intelligence”: Section 31 and the Normalization of the Security State

otm

william sadler was fantastic in his DS9 role and those were good episodes, but the whole idea really fucked up the overall premise of star trek

obviously michelle yeoh is amazing too, and i want to watch her do star trek shit, but it's gonna be hard to fit an explicitly evil mirror giorgiou (no doubt that will be hand-waved away, but still) involved with a 'section' that is directly opposed to everything the federation is supposed to stand for, into anything we recognize as star trek

at least we can count on it being poorly lit

also it really shunted responsibility aside from the federation. oh, someone tried to genocide all the founders/do other underhanded shit? we would never! that was section 31, who are definitely not us

Unless they address it head-on at some point. Like, the utopia was only possible on the backs of other's suffering done in secret by the federation. Something the show's touched on before anyway, but also classic scifi has too (le Guin etc).

But yeah that just undoes the whole point of Trek's hopeful future.

the utopia was only possible on the backs of other's suffering

this has been the rationale for a *lot* of things, which, oddly enough, never quite worked out that way

idk I feel like the main point of a lot of trek is pointing out that the post-scarcity social utopia of the federation is an attractive veneer

there are a lot of valid criticisms of voyager dropping most references to the fact that part of the crew were maquis terrorists. they really were just willing to do what it would take to extend the liberties and ethos of the federation to oppressed people on the edge of the federation! so, being in the delta quadrant, they’re all more maquis-like as they grapple with maintaining their values

section 31 is kind of the reverse side of the coin

"pon farr" always makes me think of the kinds of thing nigel bruce says in sherlock holmes: "pon my soul" or "pon my word" or "pon my binkie" or whatever

he probably never said pon my binkie tbh

"the birds and the bees are NOT vulcans, captain"

sky such an amazing red

(skies = my favourite og ST thing i think)

so when apollo re-appears with lt.carolyn palamas in a pink frock after a time elsewhere are we to assume they have been boning?

boning like the gods

Shopping.

"The original teleplay, and James Blish's adaptation, contained an additional event that did not make the filmed episode: at the end of the story, Carolyn Palamas is revealed to be pregnant with Apollo's child."

So that would be a yes.

Apollo celebrated his 94th birthday earlier this month btw.

i completely forgot that she was pregnant! (from the blish books) - wonder if any of the star trek books followed up on that

still remember Apollo's call to his fellow gods at the end to take him home which as a huge greek mythology buff upset me that the last of the gods was gone

back to Motion picture the term kohlinar flashed into my head as the ceremony/rites Spock was undergoing to purge his emotions - googling showed me was actually Kolinahr - not sur whether to be proud of my memory or not

so they had hot god-level sex and then she said "so mich for that, time to return to my work = archeology and myths"

no wonder he was so upset

seriously the backgrounds & matte paintings in TOS are my favorite, so fantastic

wasn't scotty crushing on her? he didn't have much luck romantically did he (well only remember one other potential interest)

so went looking and of course there is a site with transcripts of all the episodes,
Zeus, Hermes, Hera, Aphrodite. You were right. Athena, you were right. The time has passed. There is no room for gods. Forgive me, my old friends. Take me. Take me.

so mark, still watching in sequence? I see Mirror, Mirror is up in 2 eps

Crushing on her? He was acting like he'd lost his mind, no wonder he never had any luck with the ladies. In fact, iirc, there's an episode where he slips off with a lucky lady for a spot of hochmagandy and she ends up dead and Scotty is accused of stabbing her!

that was the one i was thinking of

the backgrounds & matte paintings in TOS are my favorite, so fantastic

I love the background art in TAS for the same reason. For a cheapy animated show, it has some lush looking space and planet vistas.

When they spruced up TOS digitally, to what extent did they alter that stuff, and to what extend was it just like the Olivetti Corporation cleaning up the Sistine Ceiling?

i am still watching in sequence yes, so mirror mirror is all cued up :) >:)-

I wish I read that Section 31 essay before unloading in the Picard thread.

so delved into the burning question of Apollo and Carolyn's baby - according to Memory Alpha

In Peter David's Star Trek: New Frontier, Mark McHenry is a descendant of the child of Apollo and Carolyn Palamas (revealed to have been impregnated during the events of this episode), and has at least some of Apollo's powers.In 2376, he left the USS Excalibur in non-corporeal form to guard against his evil, divine relatives.

Apparently he was a friend of Worf's at Star Fleet Academy.

Producers originally wanted Jon Voight for Apollo but due to another project Michael Forest was cast as Apollo. Forest and Nimoy had previously acted together in a stage production of Genet's Deathwatch and starred in the film version (didn't even know it existed!) also starring Paul Mazursky, Gavin Macleod and directed by Vic Morrow !!!

no wonder scotty was in such a palaver

fun fact: mirror mirror (assuming that's the evil spock one) aired the day i was born

Did you come out with a goatee?

Heh

Search for Spock on film 4. he's dead, he's dead, she's dead, she's dead 8(

(st4 on tomorrow. not that i recommend it)

I am not dead/evil Spock!

^title of posthumous Nimoy memoir

i like that mirror kirk hasn't yet spotted than non-mirror spock has no beard

life aboard the alt-enterprise: not dull

the great whale caper is just abt to begin on my TV

lol this one really nips thru its plot

everyone on the bridge except uhura is wearing some kind of dressing gown

re the courtcase at the end: the judge shd have said "nevetheless rules are rules" and banged the lot of them in pokey

the saturated greens in "the apple" (s2 e5) feel lke colours that didn't even exist in the 60s (on TV or off)

Not even in The Prisoner?

dull lawn greens only, the village was no poisoned eden

Happy Star Wars Day, y’all! pic.twitter.com/TkwTRe9Aua

— LeVar Burton (@levarburton) May 4, 2023

spock's mom complaing that he doesn't smile enough and also he never visits 👍🏽 🖖🏼

kirk now flirting w/spock's mom lol

i love spock’s mom in that episode

i was thinking maybe i never saw this ep before but then the pale blue lad's antenna fell off and i do remember that

i guess spock's dad on the brink of death did not impress me as a teen (his mom reminds me a bit of mine tbh)