Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

FWIW, Yahoo News usually ends up picking up their articles in their entirety. There may be a lag, but wait at least a few days, it'll pop up. I don't know how that business model works - maybe Yahoo pays something to RS for every hit? - but it's a legitimate way of reading their articles without subscribing.

The RS piece is pretty pointless, tbh.

Still a lot of sad, angry fans, and having had some time to process, it's not getting any better. Thought this was a good essay:

sooner or later, it all comes down to money: https://t.co/bgZ2PpOuHB

— Caryn Rose (@carynrose) August 2, 2022

Concerts used to be church. They were the closest thing I had to understanding a communal experience with people I don’t know engaging in some kind of magic. I told friends that it felt like someone had died, because we had no warning that this was coming, and our understanding of the unspoken relationship was literally overturned in a second.

I mean, that sounds a tad overheated, but I get it.

yeah i def feel that sentiment for sure

Relevant talk in that piece about how hard it used to be finding out about shows and getting tickets.

Looking back at archived video blocks, that was an interesting facet of early MTV news: announcing tour itineraries and sale dates and even featuring commercials for tours.

As always using Tulsa as a frame of reference (because so goes Tulsa, so goes the world, right?) and there are literally hundreds and hundreds of seats to be had for as cheap as $60 (pre-fees), with the most expensive (in the pit) going for about $500. Even cheaper on Seat Geek (the one broker I just checked out). Prices scale up when I look at Milwaukee, and I assume may stay that way until closer to the show. Dynamic pricing more than anything else mostly seems to have fucked up the, well, dynamics of the ticket sale.

Man, I wanted to go to Tulsa just to see the Dylan and Guthrie museums. Adding Springsteen would be a nice bonus.

I came across a "new" copy of "Live in New York City" on DVD for $2. (Plastic wrap's gone but it's still sealed by the sticker on top.) I think this usually went for $20 back in the day? It's a nice consolation if I miss out on the current tour, but it also brought to mind the economics that may have inflated concert prices these days. DVD market's a bust, albums don't sell much, streaming is just peanuts - it was nicer when the revenue was all spread out a bit.

For sure, he should divvy up that half a billion dollars he got paid for his catalog, just a couple years after making $113 million on Broadway.

For real, though, I think you bring up a legitimate issue, but one probably more of concern to newer artists than to legacy acts.

Hah! True.

One thing I have to ask - big legacy acts essentially become corporations, where a lot of people are now depending on them for income. It's probably beyond my familiarity with how their operations are run, but I was thinking, with more people depending on the act's tour than other sources of revenue, wouldn't that influence concert prices as well (like if promoters or management had to propose the terms, etc.)? Especially when, say, a publishing sale doesn't to bank them a payday the way it did for Springsteen himself.

(To be clear, I'm not arguing for prices to stay up, not at all.)

Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack

they can't afford to see me without a Ticketmaster hack.

Resale there going for $450 to $2,050

they don't think that's nifty

Relevant talk in that piece about how hard it used to be finding out about shows and getting tickets.

Looking back at archived video blocks, that was an interesting facet of early MTV news: announcing tour itineraries and sale dates and even featuring commercials for tours.

― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, August 2, 2022 11:02 PM (one week ago)

As mentioned in the essay, even once you knew about a show happening you had to figure when & where the tickets were going on sale, which for bigger shows could be a whole deal. Ticketmaster tickets used to go on sale through a department store in Mpls so I would be standing in home goods or the clothing return section of Dayton's at 9 AM on a Saturday morning waiting for whatever tickets to go on sale and even that would be a tricky thing, I remember waiting hours one time for some show and finding out once the line started moving that the sale date got delayed.

But also I am still friends with people who I only know because I met them standing in a ticket line. I talked to one of them the other day.

My brother was just relating a story about running through a department store to get to where the ticket booth was, and the store later complaining about people knocking over clothes and such to get to that location in the store

even once you knew about a show happening you had to figure when & where the tickets were going on sale, which for bigger shows could be a whole deal.

Definitely. Ticketron used to be the big ticket dealer in the Chicago area until around the early '90s or so, and they sold tickets through Sears, for some reason (and finding out which Sears was a job -- not all of them had Ticketron outlets). I slept overnight in a Sears parking lot for Who tickets in 1989 and was 20th in line out of several hundred, confident that I'd at least get pavilion seats (the only area shows were at an awful shed in Wisconsin). Only the first person in line got pavilion seats, and I was one of the last people in line to get any tickets at all (lawn, unfortunately). It came out later that Ticketron was insanely and brazenly corrupt, holding tickets back, giving them away to the well-connected, and shows being "sold out" before tickets even went on sale. Ticketron was so awful that when Ticketmaster finally took over in Chicago, it was a relief (though, to be fair, Ticketmaster wasn't yet doing the insane service-charges thing).

i know this is dumb, but that's my speciality -- i really wish a prominent pop star would decide that they had enough money, and to only do shows in small venues. like, 500 or less. 1000 or less. whatever. just not big horrible places. with zero middlemen taking a cut at every possible intervention point during the way. just small shows, at clubs with good sound, where you can actually see them play and you can see what they're doing on stage. it would mean fewer of the star's billions of fans getting to see them (at some really shitty outdoor arena, with a ticket that seemed like a good idea but was only available because it's directly behind a gigantic column full of lights, speakers, and the sound guy). and it would mean less money for the artist, as well as for the thousands of people they surround themselves with who also make money off of them in some way.

every once in a while it happens, like the rolling stones / cockroaches show at el mocambo. so, i know it' s possible. but i would like to see someone PERMANENTLY do that. no more big shows. only small shows. i hereby challenge a wealthy global pop star to do it

i can see why a band like U2 wouldn't do it. they need that big audience energy. they need to see thousands of fans doing the "U2 clap", which is when everyone has their arms straight up over their heads, with the hands clapping way up there. if bono doesn't see the masses doing the U2 clap, he gets very angry. so they get a pass.

if bono doesn't see the masses doing the U2 clap, he gets very angry.

― Bruce Stingbean (Karl Malone), Tuesday, August 9, 2022 9:46 AM

probably words that have also come out of bono's mouth, verbatim.

Honestly, the closest might have been Springsteen on Broadway.

don't make him angry!! just clap!!

and larry mullen, you do the U2 beat right now, or bono is going to fucking lose his shit. you know the one -- driving 16th notes on the hi-hat...hell yeah

I do know that (for example) Madonna and Janet Jackson (relatively) recently did theatre tours. And Olivia Rodrigo played a place a lot smaller than she could fill. Lil Nas X is doing the same thing on his upcoming tour. But in these two cases they're likely trial runs for the Enormodome. I suspect the problem (as such) is that superstars would no longer able to reach their fans in large enough numbers and thus risk alienating/angering them, not least because the ticket prices would go up even higher than they are already. Any pop star is already a limited commodity compared to demand; there's only one of them that can only play one place at a time. Constrict that accessibility further without lessening demand and you've got a recipe for disaster.

see, i call that "always leave them wanting more", haha

Depending on the hugeness of the star and the smallness of the venue, a huge star at a small venue could be a crowd management nightmare. I mean, ffs, when the Grateful Dead were doing multiple dates at Giants Stadium in the '90s there were still 20,000-30,000 ticketless fans outside trying to get in.

Yeah but where are the deadheads going to go, they have nowhere else to stay

Josh OTM. Ppl would be frustrated/pissed; tickets would be resold for thousands of dollars, etc. It would end up having more of an "elitist" vibe (unless I guess they played 130 club shows in a row or something).

(at the same city/venue)
(and limit of one (1) show per customer - as if that could be enforced)

Residencies are probably the most realistic way of pulling it off. Like Dylan can fill an arena in NYC - first one I saw was at Barclays - but he seems to be much happier doing a week of shows at the Beacon because he's stuck with that format ever since.

But with someone like Springsteen or McCartney, who typically do several shows at any given arena, moving that to a theater would probably mean close to a month of shows. I think McCartney prefers stadiums because he can do less shows, and he likes the enormous crowd. He does do tiny shows, but they're usually pop-ups and one-off surprise shows, probably for the press or to get ready for a bigger show the next night, etc.

FWIW, Beacon sits less than 3000, Barclays can do as much as 19,000 for concerts.

Makes me think of how huge acts sometimes play that smallish venue in Frome ahead of Glastonbury, eg. Paul McCartney this year. But that's a one-off thing like birdistheword says.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jun/24/sir-paul-mccartney-plays-surprise-pre-glastonbury-gig-in-frome

FWIW, here's a rundown of small shows done by the Stones in Chicago, all "secret" shows:

https://www.audacy.com/wxrt/rolling-stones-secret-show-chicago

One of my big regrets is missing out on the Aragon show in 2002 which was NOT a secret show, just part of the three-show theater/arena/stadium format of that tour. I totally wanted to go but alas it was before I really went to shows on a regular basis and the idea of going to a show was still considered a huge luxury. I'm not sure how easy it would've been to land a ticket though.

I saw Prince at that series of shows he did at the Forum (and elsewhere in L.A.), in 2011... that's a great example of a huge artist doing a long stand at manageably-sized venues in a single city.

This ultimately didn't happen because he died, but Tom Petty had talked about following up his 40th Anniversary tour by going out once or twice each year and just doing 1-2 week theatre residences in different cities, something akin to the Fillmore runs he'd done in San Francisco.

Yeah, he played a three night stand at a smallish theatre here once. But he also tended to avoid arenas, and I honestly have no idea if he could have filled arenas at the end. Probably? I mean, his final show here was at Wrigley.

I think one thing about acts like Prince or the Stones or whomever is that their small shows typically arrived as a surprise, without much fanfare. Whether it was club shows from Metallica or Green Day here a few weeks ago, or surprise smaller shows from Pearl Jam or or Prince or whatever, it feels like tickets are often announced and sold barely 24 hours in advance, not usually for high princes and typically a line-up-and-buy, first come first served sort of deal. Also, sometimes some sort of bracelet to prove you're the one that bought the ticket. Other acts have made sure the ticket holder had a credit card that matched the one that purchased the ticket, but iirc that kind of stuff has backfired a few times.

I'm sure Spotify getting into the action will sort this mess right out: https://techcrunch.com/2022/08/10/spotify-starts-selling-live-music-tickets-to-fans-directly/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P81_4B5yNk

Love the part when they isolate the keyboard part right at the point where there's a pretty prominent sour note, also Bruce's thrashy, out-of-tune guitar track is pretty amazing.

Oh wow. Definitely gonna watch that. And I used to think his name was a pseudonym, because "Clearmountain" is what his mixes sound like.

Wild to hear the drums without all the bells and whistles on top.

The raw, unprocessed mix was cool to hear, too. And like Clearmountain said, “These guys mix themselves.”

Heard "Thunder Road" on the radio the other day and amused myself pretending it's about a love triangle between Mary, a man, and his anthropomorphized talking car. It's the car that's waiting outside, making her this wistful, romantic pitch. Then the guy comes along all carefree and over-confident, and his counter-offer is all, hey girl, I can play guitar, and my car's out back, why don't you hop in, the door's open but the ride it ain't free? And the car seizes the moment and talks shit about all the boys in the town, all the boys she's (rightly) sent away, and the car is, like, see? These guys suck and they're going nowhere. It's a town full of love 'em and leave 'em losers, but I'm pulling out of here to win. Ka-chow.

Also, just putting this here:

In case you still refuse to feel old - Bruce Springsteen now looks like Woody Allen. pic.twitter.com/zDt6lHv9Dj

— Mike Rosenkrantz (@MikeRos59) August 31, 2022

Ha, had that discussion elsewhere

Speaking of surprising photos, no, this is not James Murphy, this is Southside Johnny:
http://backstreets.com/Assets/Images/2022/SSJ090422/SSJ_mkrajnak_090422_0V2A1078.jpg

"Little Steven Is Playing At My House"

lol

The Vinyl Me Please "Essentials" title for October is Nebraska! Seems like a crazy high-profile title for them.

Interesting, that was a notoriously difficult title to cut on vinyl, but I imagine they're working off the remastered digital file processed by Plangent, which probably took care of those problems from way back when.

(IIRC, the only way to get around it on the original vinyl was to master it at a very low volume, surface noise be damned.)