The Cure: Classic or Dud?

I love the Smiths but I really can't agree that they were equally diverse in terms of output with respect to the Cure. The Cure just covered a lot more musical ground (helps to have existed for 3-4 times as long as the Smiths but still).

I think if you rate The Smiths *at all*, then it's uncontroversial to say that they are one of the great B-sides bands of their era, or ever -- because there is virtually no distinction between their B-sides and their A-side or LP-track output: as concretely demonstrated by the fact that HATFUL OF HOLLOW contains 45s and B-sides and is many people's 'favourite Smiths LP', and THE WORLD WON'T LISTEN is arguably in the same class (and ditto, to an extent, by default, LOUDER THAN BOMBS).

In other words, for most of their career the Smiths didn't write and record B-sides as a separate, inferior category of songs.

Having said that: there are a few live track B-sides (eg on the 'that joke' 12-inch) which are a different kind of item, and then there is the late period when they start recording things like 'work is a four-letter word' which does seem a step down in quality. Having said that, maybe that track and 'golden lights' (which was recorded when still at their peak, really) are actually unusual - it's not as if there is a blitz of tacky covers in 1987.

The Cure: I love many of the B-sides but they were clearly recorded as a separate category, and released in the separate form of the compilation on the back of the STANDING ON A BEACH tape ('another journey by train' etc etc_), which many of us love, and then JOIN THE DOTS.

I was going to say I was unsure whether the *later* Cure B-sides held up, but then remembered the 'letter to Elise' CD single and how good it all was.

I have concluded from this thread that I need to dive back into the Cure, whom I've largely ignored since the early 90s.

y'know, as cynical as i am about nucure, i will definitely defend their b-sides from any era (wish possibly my favorite of them all). even the ones from 4.13 dream were at least pleasant throwbacks to a classic period:

"ny trip" (2008)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPJ0EiGFCPM

also not sure if this counts, as it was a us-only b-side, but i thought "fake" (2004) was a legitimately great throwback and one of my favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeHEllIB03Y

I loved all of the extra songs from 2004 (Truth, Goodness, and Beauty, Fake, This Morning, Going Nowhere) and I don’t think the self-titled album is complete without them

oh that's a good one for the "bonus tracks make the album better" thread

I thought ‘Going Nowhere’ definitely made that album better

oh that's a good one for the "bonus tracks make the album better" thread

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Wednesday, January 19, 2022 1:38 PM

otm

"going nowhere" also quite good.

there was also the two very late-released b-sides from the self-titled album, "why can't i be me?" and "your god is fear" which were much gloomier than they had sounded in years. i was on a (now defunct) fan forum around the time and the generally accepted theory there was that both tracks feature the uncredited return of pearl (f/k/a porl) thompson.

"why can't i be me?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3yxllOaOqo

"your god is fear"
youtube.com/watch?v=7tJHHQWqAXo

(vocals still *way* too loud for me on this more recent stuff; at least the tunes are decent)

sorry, goofed the url there—
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tJHHQWqAXo

seems like 'join the dots' isn't on spotify? at least in my territory.

i feel a really well-chosen 2lp compilation of Cure b-sides would be quite revelatory to many - the head on the door-era b-sides are a real peak of weirdo pop (and also went a long way to inventing ariel pink?)

it is a pretty orthodox opinion but you could make an incredible LP out of Disintegration & Wish b-sides (esp if including Never Enough & Lost Wishes material)

re lack of detailed study on the Cure - this is a huge absence for sure - for a massive & influential band they are incredibly under-examined IMO - in terms of serious critical engagement i can think of a couple of pages in Michael Bracewell's England is Mine (which is quite sniffy and dismissive if i remember right) - what else is there? there's plenty to talk about!

can we just admit this rocks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd5obDWCZy4

I remember getting the Standing on a Beach cassette pretty early in my Cure fandom (which became pretty intense 1986-1990) and feeling literally threatened by how weird that song was, along with "A Man Inside My Mouth". Of course there was no turning back from there.

"happy the man" also one of the rare instances of a b-side that got played live fairly regularly.

that cassette finishing with 'new day' was so brilliant

one of the great things about attending this show was getting overwhelming 'standing on a beach cassette' flashback feelings from the encores

1983-1985 probably their greatest bsides period, where each song was a whole different musical path. If push comes to shove, the Join the Dots disc covering that era would probably be my one Cure desert island disc. Happy the Man and New Day still give me chills to this day.
After that, I feel the quality of the bsides were inversely proportional to the quality of the album. The KM3 and Disintegration ones were pretty minor, while the Wish, Wild Mood Swings one and self titled were pretty great. I have no memory whatsoever of the 4:13 ones.

Saw them in 85 on the Head on the Door tour and they were dull as dishwater (compared to New Order the same year, who were brilliant).

I first saw them in May 1984 when I thought they were brilliant. One of the first concerts I ever went to and I was blown away at the magical effect of musicians physically present in front of me creating great music.

Saw them intermittently after that, last time in 2018, and it was never quite the same. I always had the feeling that they were more polished, the songs post- The Top were less interesting, and they lost a little of the magic because of it. A bit like when a stage musical finds its sound and sticks with it and what it gains in ‘professionalism’ it can lose in surprise and spontaneity.

Having said that, I did like the 2018 show in Hyde Park a lot.

My feeling on hearing the B-sides tape was, and remains:

The wonderful thing here is how every B-side sounds like its A-side; cut from the same cloth.

'I'm cold' is like 'train', 'another journey by train' is like 'a forest', 'the exploding boy' is like 'inbetween days', etc.

Single favourite track from that tape has to be 'a few hours after this'. That really moved and impressed me. Better than most people's A-sides.

I definitely preferred the back of Standing on a Beach to the front after a while. Weird cure beats poppy cure for me though both tulpas of the split personality are crucial. My pick was either Throw Your Foot or Exploding Boy, and love all the others especially Cold, Happy, Pink Eye and especially especially Splintered - so epic and what I was always disappointed not to find in bands like Killing Joke and Ministry.

Might be interesting to poll the 12 b-sides from Standing on a Beach. For comparison here are the b-sides' placements in the 2012 artist poll (parens denotes not on the cassette) - a surprising order I think:

(5 10:15 Saturday Night)
(33 Upstairs Room)
(38 Lament)
#50 Man Inside My Mouth
#53 Few Hours After This
#54 Exploding Boy
#64 Throw Your Foot
(65 Harold and Joe)
#73 New Day
(74 2 Late)
(75 Just One Kiss)
(78 Twilight Garden)
#89 Mr Pink Eye
#93 Stop Dead
#94 Splintered In Her Head
(98 Breathe)
(107 Plastic Passion)
(113 Chain of Flowers)
(115 Speak My Language)
(126 The Big Hand)
#133 I'm Cold
#137 Another Journey By Train
#144 Happy The Man
(145 Fear of Ghosts)
(149 Japanese Dream)
#151 Descent
(152 Babble)
(155 Foolish Arrangement)
(157 Snow In Summer)
(163 The Dream)

Not a great showing in some ways - probably the lowest average score if you compare it to the first 15 years of albums - but all 12 tracks placed, more consistent than The Top (which missed out Empty World), Kiss Me (missing Fight), and Wish (missing Trust! and Wendy Time)

co-sign re: "throw your foot" that song rules.

I also had that cassette in the late 80s and loved side B

yeah side b as the distorted funhouse mirror version of side a was such a great listening experience

other favourite parts of that comp - the way the tension on side a grows increasingly thick and evil until the hanging garden - then the pure pop relief of LGTB was always a moment - no other cure comp conveys this change so well

and finishing on close to me was crucial - always hated how the cd version ended with a night like this

Album with the best b-sides is Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me

The Wish b-sides are also stellar

Anyone who had the Staring at the Sea VHS should remember this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKOdo_hD9k8

Oh yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQp3oWdS7cw

^^^^ exactly

wish also had the best extended mixes they ever did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JAlbcDerHQ

I remember being annoyed I had to get that CD single as an import when they did domestic for "High" and "Friday I'm In Love."

Album with the best b-sides is Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me

― Jaime Pressly and America (f. hazel), Thursday, January 20, 2022 3:03 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

otm, "chain of flowers" being my favorite

brad otm again, "chain of flowers" is alltime. always been one of their very best songs to me. pretty sure it ranked top ten on my ballot when we polled them some years back.

"Snow in Summer"!

"to the sky" also a personal favorite and quite good — though not necessarily a proper b-side. came from the kiss me sessions.

I remember taping that off the radio and searching for a physical version of it for ages... lost interest in the Cure before I did.

I was at the height of my Cure fandom in high school when “to the sky” started getting play on the local radio. I pulled my hair out trying to find a physical copy. Definitely had a radio dub on cassette to get me through.

this has been amazing to hear about the Cure's B-sides and hearing how people heard some of them over the radio. i grew up on KROQ and they didn't play "To the Sky" on the radio they did play "A Man Inside My Mouth" all the time. one time Richard Blade and Lisa May were on the air trying to figure out what the song was about, they had no clue and went down a rabbit hole they should have never gone down.

I thought I had posted this on the Cure thread already, but this is kinda interesting, I was sure that A Man Inside My Mouth was included in the film Flight of the Navigator but it was a very close parody, maybe The band refused to give them the rights?

"When MAX and David stop behind the car to ask for directions, the song heard in the car is a fragment of "Trapped In My Mind", an obvious parody of The Cure's "A Man Inside My Mouth" composed by David Kitay and Guy Moon, and performed by Kitay himself specifically for the movie. A full version of the song does not exist."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCdLKYUIeno

Don't know why, but To the Sky got a TON of airplay on one of the Houston radio stations upon release.

I’m from Houston too f.hazel, and the local Q station really payed that song. I guess lullaby and lovesong really were big hits locally.

hahaha, along with I Beg Your Pardon by Kon Kan!

The Wish b-sides are also stellar

Yes, but I would say that, "Halo" was our first dance song at our wedding.

Maresn3st, that's hilarious. i love that movie.

semi-related, but i seem to have vague memories of hearing "the big hand" on college radio in the pacific northwest. can't say for sure. i only recorded the hiphop shows back then, so who knows i could be confusing it with a different wish track (probably "letter to elise" in that case).

x-post

Kon Kan! hadn’t thought about that one in a while

The recent posts inspired me to listen thru the first chunk of Join The Dots the other morning. I was hearing almost every one of these for the first time, and without much warning I was immediately affected by "Man Inside My Mouth." Makes sense that it would place #50 on The Cure poll and that it received some heavy KROQ spins.

For context, this is from their top 106.7 of 1986:
61. Bananarama - Venus
62. The Smithereens - Behind the Wall of Sleep
63. Eurythmics - Missionary Man
64. The Psychedelic Furs - Pretty in Pink
65. Wang Chung - Everybody Have Fun Tonight
66. The Cure - A Man Inside My Mouth

Lol still in his stone-face phase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5IJkf-msCE

Lol airdrumming, lol

Lol is not on board

Lol is not on board bored.

There's a passage in Ten Imaginary Years where someone (could have been Robert, don't accurately remember right now) says that they look bored in all of their old promos and TV performances because, well, they were.

I have the close-up of Simon's big exaggerated sigh from the "Forest" video permanently burned into my memory. Very classic.