Continuing with CDs?

markup is def related to cost aiui xp

so few pressing facilities iirc. niche demand is high and wait times are silly.

does anybody have any knowledge of what it was like to press vinyl 20 years ago vs. today?

(not trying to make this a "and that's why my old school generation was better" thing, genuinely curious about how it compares)

it's much harder to get analog lacquers now (as opposed to DMM/direct metal mastering)

https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/vinyl-industry-apollo-masters-fire-951903/

20 years ago I doubt there was even a waitlist for a big pressing plant like Rainbo, now the Garth Brooks box sets and pointless movie soundtrack reissues are clogging everything up

The majors may not realize it but if Byron abandons vinyl the format is over https://t.co/V2MAJHttKA

— Damon K (@dada_drummer) January 9, 2022

that's what i was mainly wondering about: vinyl being the go-to for smaller operations 20 years ago was an issue of cost-efficiency? i mean i'm sure there was always some purists wanting their music to be on vinyl regardless of how it was done, but i always understood it as "this is the cheapest way for us to get our recordings out there." again, i have no idea i was just a consumer at the time. maybe that's my romanticized interpretation?

In the 90s short-run CDs were massively cheaper than vinyl formats, at least in Australia.

I'm guessing vinyl might've easier to do 20 years ago due to low demand and the majors taking up all the time and resources at CD pressing plants. 20 years ago, you have major albums shipping well over a MILLION copies the first week in the U.S. alone vs. a vinyl release that was likely shipping nowhere close to a thousand (and a thousand copies might be the entire run). Some of the audiophile labels at the time had similar press runs of vinyl that would take forever to clear out of storage.

Easier for a small label to get out, that is.

I feel compelled to note that I can buy new/sealed grey-area Euro LP represses of e.g. Magma and Sun Ra and Brazilian stuff etc for $12 at my local store, but I realize that may be an exception

I do think the vinyl format is largely dead/problematic but exceptions still exist (the An'Archives label)

i was mainly asking because i have been theorizing for a while that vinyl runs back then were probably as "limited" as they are now, it just wasn't part of any marketing scam because the format didn't have the same prestige.

something tells me pop punk and hc bands in the early-to-mid 90s were not as concerned about the supremacy of the format as the nerds on the Hoffman forums are today. I think it was just the cheapest and / or most practical option at the time, plus it didn't have the corporate stink of the CD. Not much to it more than that, I don't think. I mean, anyone who ever bought a punk or hc 7" in the nineties can attest that they pretty much all sounded like shit

True, maybe, but my 90s CD of Spiderland has a stern note that it’s intended to be listened to on vinyl, and Autechre had the notation “incomplete without surface noise” on an early release around the same time.

Vinyl was never the easiest or cheapest option. At least not in my lifetime.

The privilege afforded the format is 99% consumer demand. The “unsellability” of CDs noted above is very real: you can hardly give them away right now. This will change.

I can't remember the point at which new LPs became more expensive than their CD equivalents, but I'm guessing it wasn't something that happened gradually while both formats were widely available in chainstores, but something that happened in one blow, after a period in which LPs had almost vanished. Mid-'80s to late-'90s, IIRC, CDs were 25-40% more expensive than vinyl. Then vinyl mostly ceases to be on the shelves in mainstream shops (and perhaps rising to CD-level price-wise in independent shops?) and, when it reappears in that context (mid-late '00s?), it's 50-100% more expensive than CD.

That's very accurate, Mike.

War Mice: "This will change". Why?

I've read in a couple of places that MDC in Japan stepped up lacquer production significantly -

We can source enough lacquers from MDC to keep our cutting operation running. And we cut more then ever. They must have expanded their production bigtime.
I don't think lacquer is the bottleneck - there is just not enough pressing plants for the demand right now.

https://www.lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9268&p=59037&hilit=mdc#p59037

The price of polyvinyl chloride meanwhile has gone up something like 70% -

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-technology-business-health-hurricanes-46bce9cc36dab2b330309dae0354cf53

20 years ago IIRC the lead times for vinyl from GZ were something like three weeks including delivery to the UK.

Yeah, I definitely remember times in mid-90s when I was record shopping that I'd be looking at the vinyl prices and thinking, "man, I wish I had a record player to save some money", but didn't bother since I was still in a dorm and lack of space was a serious consideration.

from a consumer standpoint, that's why i got into vinyl in the late 90s: it was significantly cheaper.

also why i'm mostly in for cds these days (that is, if i'm even compelled to purchase something)

^^ yep

I still buy vinyl now and then, especially if it's the only physical option for something I really want, but otherwise I'm 95% CDs.

I've curtailed my physical media purchases because I don't have any space left to keep them in.

rang in the new year by ordering a short vinyl pressing, looking forward to finally seeing it sometime in 2023 after the bottom has completely fallen out

I wish CD sales would pick up enough where it makes sense to bring back BMG Music Club. I was a member during its final years, but early enough to take advantage of the 12 for 1 deals they had going (which usually became 15 for 1 if you held out for a few months on buying "the one" full-price CD as an obligation). After taxes and shipping, not to mention the inflated cost of the full-priced disc, it still came out to less than $4 per disc in '00s dollars. And you could even do multiple memberships for the same address - like I went into college and came out of it with a pretty impressive library from BMG memberships alone. Pretty sure those days are long gone, but at least I got to take advantage of it.

And you could even do multiple memberships for the same address

god did we take advantage of this at my house. even our pets had memberships.

even our pets had memberships

LMAO

I roped in relatives for their addresses and built up a pretty solid Classical Music 101 collection.

I can't remember the point at which new LPs became more expensive than their CD equivalents, but I'm guessing it wasn't something that happened gradually while both formats were widely available in chainstores, but something that happened in one blow, after a period in which LPs had almost vanished. Mid-'80s to late-'90s, IIRC, CDs were 25-40% more expensive than vinyl. Then vinyl mostly ceases to be on the shelves in mainstream shops (and perhaps rising to CD-level price-wise in independent shops?) and, when it reappears in that context (mid-late '00s?), it's 50-100% more expensive than CD.

― Michael Jones, Monday, January 10, 2022 5:07 AM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

CDs being more expensive than vinyl was always artificial, having to nothing to do with how expensive it was. CDs have always been much cheaper and easier to produce. Even as a local band doing $1000 CD with 1 fold color booklet, we were paying $4 per unit and could sell them for $10 at shows. So I can't even imagine what the big record companies were doing on cost per unit.

yep, this Negativland piece goes into great detail re: lower costs:

https://urbigenous.net/library/negativland_shiny.html

(xpost 1000 CDs not $1000 CDs haha)

upper m@rissa sh@kedown

loooooool just need to sell 5 copies

Pinefox - evidently I was unable to finish a damn thought the other night.

I see a gradual thawing of the habitual anti-CD stance from former hardcore vinyl enthusiasts/purists. As records get ever more expensive & the production timelines ever more extended, buying new vinyl records is firmly a rich person’s hobby. On the used side, there’s hardly a bargain bin left on the planet that has anything worthwhile in it anymore; all those $1 records of yore are now $20-30, while the CD bins are where the thrill of the hunt lies now.

Vinyl is becoming increasingly “normie-fied”. (Case study 1: This Christmas two family members requested and received record players — these were people who didn’t even have a stereo in the house before, the most boring normal people in the world.) (Case study 2: I can’t keep Billy Joel records in stock at $15 ea; I should be pricing them at a premium, it seems.) I predict this will soon cause the bloom to go off the rose for the terminally hip.

I just smell the tide beginning to turn for CDs. Sure, there’ll always be bins full of Now That’s What I Call Music, same as there’s still a mountain of Melissa Manchester records nobody wants, but I bet your $1 copy of even Achtung Baby is worth $20 in 10 years.

Sure, there’ll always be bins full of Now That’s What I Call Music

https://www.discogs.com/release/4639424-Various-Now-Thats-What-I-Call-Music-4

lol/wow

hd otm

lol/wow otm

Reading through some comments, it appears that was allegedly the first ever Now! issued on CD and at only 500 copies.

I see a gradual thawing of the habitual anti-CD stance from former hardcore vinyl enthusiasts/purists.

a producer/engineer i've worked with (who runs an all analog studio) said to me a long time ago "it was like the moment they'd finally figured out how to make CDs sound great, everyone abandoned them for MP3"

not everyone but yeah, that sounds right

totally on board for CD comeback, maybe SACD will be the next true hipster purist format

that last comment somewhat driven by discomfort re my own tendency to rebuy music with the ostensible pretext of chasing sound quality - someone is selling half a dozen PIL SACDs on a local audiophile classifieds for about $50 a pop (Australian dollars) and if i had the funds available i would be seriously considering it

I've done the same with quality/well-reviewed vinyl remasters/reissues, I'm certainly guilty as well

that being said a lot of 2000s-era CD reissues can be horrifically brick walled, like my pet peeve of the disastrous Virgin Prunes CD reissues on Mute

brick walling was a definite problem, I think his thing as an analog guy he was finally hearing well done CDs that were (to him) on par with vinyl

I agree w/ that, as per bird's fascinating posts upthread abt technological developments

Now I get to play the game of do I get rid of the majority of my record collection while it’s still worth a decent amount of money or do I hold onto it and risk it becoming virtually worthless one day a la the CD collection I painstakingly amassed between the ages of 10 and 20.

definitely happy to shed some less essential records while there’s still a market - some LPs are definitely keepers though either from a sound quality or general ~~vibes~~ point of view

idk, I probably beat this drum a lot on here but I like CDs for some things and vinyl for other things and tapes for other things and Qobuz for some other things and it’s like… we don’t have to choose one or the other, it’s great

Pretty much. I'd just hold on to what you'd want to listen to. I rarely have more than one single copy of an album, and if it's an album I really like with no other physical alternative, I'll hold on to it even it's valuable.

The toughest thing to part with would be 78's - nothing beats hearing a 78 from the original record, much more so than a LP vs CD of an album that had a tape master. But they can be expensive and tough to find, especially in the best condition. A great CD, like the ones John R. T. Davies used to master, makes it a lot easier because 1) he does an incredible job, often from 78's in great shape and 2) it's nice hearing all the records in one 60-80 minute sitting rather than spread out over twenty records that only have three minutes before you need to lift the needle.

I am planning on semi-retiring in about 15 years, selling all my shit and house, and driving a Winnebago around the country as a traveling poker dealer until I drop dead or cannot do it anymore.

I hope that my CD collection is worth something when I do.

War Mice: thanks for your explanation.

"I just smell the tide beginning to turn for CDs" - I hope you're right!

Today at a charity shop I bought 3 CDs for £1. My excuse is that this is to test my CD player. One of the CDs was the best of A Flock of Seagulls. It's good!

oh hey look

https://www.spin.com/2022/01/cd-sales-increased-in-2021/