Hilary Duff: Joy for pre-teens, not just Humbert Humbert

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except that lillix joint and come clean

― and what, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:15 (sixteen years ago) link

Sometimes people just need to be stirred or cajoled or shoved into discussion in the right ways.

Ugh, this pedanticism bugs me.

― Tim Ellison, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:15 (sixteen years ago) link

Ethan, somewhere way upthread Chuck expressed some unhappiness with the snap thread.

― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:18 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, I don't think it was pedantic at all, having been stirred and cajoled into the discussion myself.

― dabug, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:22 (sixteen years ago) link

Non-high impact doesn't = not emotionally resonant, though. See: Cassie, Paris Hilton, uh...Carole King?

-- dabug, Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:57 PM (30 minutes ago)

that's you saying paris hilton = emotionally resonant, isn't it? yikes.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:29 (sixteen years ago) link

And Frank needs to be stirred and cajoled into conversation, too! And the people on threads who think the music is being insufficiently analyzed or discussed have it in their power to change the way they talk about it, or evangelize/market it even.

― dabug, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:29 (sixteen years ago) link

Frank has gone on to great lengths about this need for people to be PUSHED and CAJOLED and MADE TO THINK and how he's the guy to do it!

― Tim Ellison, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:35 (sixteen years ago) link

He's right! Other posters not interested in teenpop are saying as much, I'm responding to them fairly directly, not just making broad generalizations.

― dabug, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:37 (sixteen years ago) link

And my point isn't that he's the guy to do it (though around here he often is), just that it needs to get done.

― dabug, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:38 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, maybe you can join him in preaching to people about how they need to broaden their intellectual scope, then. (x-post)

― Tim Ellison, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:39 (sixteen years ago) link

REPENT, TIM!

― dabug, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:45 (sixteen years ago) link

frank can spark discussion REALLY easily on ilm. check any one of a hundred threads. same with mark s. same with other people. threads that were lame or dying brought back to life by a deft nabisco paragraph or four.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 17:46 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah that Frank quote is pretty good, no Ashlee-Dylan crazy juice in that post and I give him credit for dealing with the fact that "Hilary doesn't have a high-impact voice" and that some songs use it better than others, which is the kind of fairly obvious truth that sometimes folks like The Lex seem very stubborn not to acknowledge.

it's not "stubborn not to acknowledge" because it's not actually a fact - it's "active disagreement". i don't doubt there are songs on which hilary's voice doesn't work*, but it works really well on most of what i have heard. it's a lot like rachel stevens' or kylie minogue's voice in that she hits all the notes fine but it's kind of blank and cipherish on first listen; it doesn't go out of its way to stamp its personality on the song, but this is good because this a) allows the song to breathe and b) allows the listener to make the song theirs, it's a really good way into the song.

but then - like stevens and minogue - you start imagining other (better, stronger, more charismatic) singers singing those songs, and it just plain wouldn't work.

i will pay no heed to nrq's snarks here; for one, as far as i can tell he finds close to nothing emotionally resonant in any case; and for two he likes the STONE ROSES so really should quit talking shit about paris's voice which, yes, i find emotionally resonant.

I think it's great that it explores authorship - just the kind of thing an evangelical teenpop thread ought to be doing, and a way into some fascinating analysis.

this is a v interesting point - rationally i agree with tom, authorship should be irrelevant to teenpop; i mean there's evidence of this every day, when a previously-shit teenpop vehicle suddenly becomes awesome with some magical producer/songwriter beans (eg omarion). trying to unpack why performers like hilary duff, paris hilton and so on appeal as performers rather than vehicles is one of the things i find most fascinating about the genre, because what they bring isn't so immediately apparent, but in terms of how i find myself responding to their work, it's undeniable that they do bring it.

i'm surprised alex is disappointed by the r&b thread, i think it's the perfect midpoint between the involved denseness and hard work of teenpop and the kind of dull laziness of snap (no offence like) and the endless lists of minimal.

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 18:16 (sixteen years ago) link

no, not disappointed by the r&b thread at all, it's pretty consistently good, i was just saying that I'd be happier if it was as consistenly active as the teenpop thread.

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 18:19 (sixteen years ago) link

its periods of dormancy allow me to keep my job though

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 18:22 (sixteen years ago) link

one of the reasons i dont post to rolling snap as much lately is cuz i only post at work where i cant usually listen to rap

― and what, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 18:55 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah same here, posting from work most of the time for the past 6 months has definitely changed the way i post.

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 18:57 (sixteen years ago) link

the trade-off is that you get me reviving unkle threads

― and what, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 18:59 (sixteen years ago) link

i can listen to anything but it has to be real, real quiet

― deej, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link

muzak-rap

― deej, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link

can't say i get that much out of the rnb thread - it's okay but only the best one on ilm by default. certainly an old ppls home compared to the old dancehall and grime rollaz, dudes were hungry then.

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah there's a definite sense that the hunger is gone in some current threads, kind of what i was getting at when i said that some people started putting more work into blogging and freelancing at the expense of their ILM contributions.

― Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:06 (sixteen years ago) link

whats finney's thing now anyway, i only ever see him on retro threads, housey threads, stuff pitchfork sent him threads and dialectical conundrums to exercise himself on threads? not being bad or nothing but he was kinda the kogan-brand glue of his day.

mitch as well, what happened there

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:09 (sixteen years ago) link

mitch posts as jermainetwo

― and what, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:09 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah i know but... what happened there

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:11 (sixteen years ago) link

maybe we all cynicalized him out of listening to stuff with lyrics

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:13 (sixteen years ago) link

dialectical conundrums to exercise himself on threads

haha

― deej, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:15 (sixteen years ago) link

the tori amos thread rtc

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:15 (sixteen years ago) link

unless van helden's on the remix again i'll pass

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:19 (sixteen years ago) link

erm btw did everyone know there's a rmx of duff's single with slim thug and play&skillz?

kinda hott too!

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:33 (sixteen years ago) link

good song, but its just r&b!

― deej, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:35 (sixteen years ago) link

brace yrself deej

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:39 (sixteen years ago) link

unless... the teenpoppers were to agree with you?

that wd be interesting

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:48 (sixteen years ago) link

haha! i like

― lex pretend, Wednesday, 16 May 2007 19:55 (sixteen years ago) link

Are some folks over at dissensus instead? I think Stelfox posts over there about dancehall and Finney is there a bit.

― curmudgeon, Thursday, 17 May 2007 03:17 (sixteen years ago) link

i heard qoolout and hillis 3000 were posting on dissensus now too

― and what, Thursday, 17 May 2007 14:32 (sixteen years ago) link

Are they still posting battle raps?

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 17 May 2007 14:32 (sixteen years ago) link

did people used to 'keystyle' on ilm?

other than chromski a.k. gattlington i mean

― deej, Thursday, 17 May 2007 14:34 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah, it was awesome. They even did the "punctuation so you can see where I'd be empathising these words IRL" thing.

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 17 May 2007 14:35 (sixteen years ago) link

blount was right

― and what, Thursday, 17 May 2007 14:40 (sixteen years ago) link

RIP

― Dom Passantino, Thursday, 17 May 2007 14:45 (sixteen years ago) link

seven months pass...

http://bp2.blogger.com/_2DoVgQdBtOw/RpIXkQ-RdwI/AAAAAAAAAZ0/Ass6-sl2yj4/s1600-h/Studio+33+Pres.+Best+of+2007+Massive+Megamix+Vol.3.jpg

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 28 December 2007 14:47 (sixteen years ago) link

This thread has my favorite Tim F responses.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Friday, 28 December 2007 14:51 (sixteen years ago) link

And I seem to recall a Cure for Bedbugs blog post about the new Arcade Fire album, which amounted to not much more than "Ick! Dull, dull, dull!" -- which I guess is partially an attempt to distance himself from his own 9.7 Pitchfork review of the first one.

-- jaymc, Tuesday, 15 May 2007 16:47 (7 months ago) Bookmark Link

Heart of truth at centre of thread.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 28 December 2007 14:58 (sixteen years ago) link

Rosebud...

― dabug, Friday, 28 December 2007 15:41 (sixteen years ago) link

being all curmudgeonly . . . just makes you look old (ie irrelevant)
-- lex pretend

Old = Irrelevant. LOL.

― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 28 December 2007 15:43 (sixteen years ago) link

welcome to lexworld, man.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:48 (sixteen years ago) link

it's all part of his hilarious ideology and you should subscribe to his newsletter.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 28 December 2007 16:49 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah. Like I said on another thread, he seems smart, just dogmatic. And since I'm old(-ish) (39), his comment struck me as funny and perhaps revealing about his enthusiasm for teenpop (my invisible psych degree sits framed on my wall next to my invisible music degree).

― Daniel, Esq., Friday, 28 December 2007 16:57 (sixteen years ago) link

and perhaps revealing about his enthusiasm for teenpop

and perhaps his own youth as well.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 28 December 2007 17:13 (sixteen years ago) link

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