"Pop Punk"

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That was directed toward Nitsuh, sorra.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 20 June 2003 15:58 (twenty years ago) link

Nabs, I agree with you on the difficult-to-make-it-work part. I'm always amazed at Yo La Tengo's ability to make a three-chord progression soar. My whole point was really just that my sometime affinity for pop-punk is maybe more in those peculiar details I mentioned than in the basics. That is, if I play pop-punk on the keyboard intuitively, it's because I also play those Philip Glass-ish elements intuitively -- I don't inherently dig the simplicity of a C-F-G progression. (Of course I like plenty of songs that use it.)

(Or maybe I'm just being defensive. Jaymc: I'm a genius because I can play pop-punk! Nabisco: It's really just three chords. Jaymc: It's more than that! *cries*)

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:19 (twenty years ago) link

Hahaha. I guess I was just stressing the interchangability of it because when I write three-chord songs they could go either way: when I was younger I'd write one that was more pop-punky, then go "actually, I think I'll record this as an acoustic B&S-type song," then later try it the other way again. . . . In the indie-pop world there seems to be a lot of this interchange, bands that alternately jangle and click and always sound like they're happy enough to go either way.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:25 (twenty years ago) link

Out of curiosity what specific acts make the songwriting on "I'm the One" so very much better than the songwriting on "Sk8er Boi?"

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:27 (twenty years ago) link

(it's funny/sad that when people think "descendents" they think "i'm the one")

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:40 (twenty years ago) link

In the "pointing out to Descendents fans that they have no good reason to hate 'Sk8er Boi'" game, I don't think the emergence of "I'm the One" should be particularly surprising.

― nabisco (nabisco), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:42 (twenty years ago) link

But Milo *is* THE ONE.

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:44 (twenty years ago) link

okay, why not "good good things" or "silly girl" though?

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:50 (twenty years ago) link

Bikeage / Cameage / Myage = amazing

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:52 (twenty years ago) link

and here's the thing about the descendents: bill could write all the "avril fan-ready" nifty three chord pop songs, but milo and whomever was playing guitar or bass on that particular album were more than capable of making bitter/complicated art-punk-metal that transcended the saccharine of the previous track.

too much sugar rots your teeth, balance is the key.

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 20 June 2003 16:57 (twenty years ago) link

The main gimmick to defending superficial chart pop in thoughtful writing, as far as I can tell, is the contrast between the subject and the commentary. Pop punk, by affecting even a shred of rebellion, exhibits some kind of thought, and is thus less "daring" to write thoughtfully about.

― ara, Friday, 20 June 2003 17:13 (twenty years ago) link

The reason the Descendents are among the greatest bands ever:

http://www.dragcity.com/catalog/records/dc30.jpg

― Jon Williams (ex machina), Friday, 20 June 2003 17:15 (twenty years ago) link

my vote:

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drc500/c503/c503697u32b.jpg

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 20 June 2003 17:17 (twenty years ago) link

What is the Descendents' connection to Nig-Heist?

― Sam J. (samjeff), Friday, 20 June 2003 17:33 (twenty years ago) link

i think bill drummed for them in the black flag years when the descendents were on hiatus

― gygax! (gygax!), Friday, 20 June 2003 17:47 (twenty years ago) link

Revis are great.

Also, Travis Barker will end up being the most-aped drummer of our era.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Friday, 20 June 2003 17:53 (twenty years ago) link

Avril and Milo are both pretty good at self-aggrandizing, delusional psychoanalyses of "tragic" females. Is "Bikeage" the one that goes, "Who's gonna pick you up / and take you home with them tonight? / Not meeeeee"? Neither seems afraid of coming across as truly repulsive human beings in their songs. Good for them, I say. However, "Sk8er Boi" is quite a musical anomaly on the album; the rest is really boring. The Descendents had those cool, fussy basslines and more manic energy.

I'd like to hear a DJ Sammy treatment of "Hope". Maybe Avril can sing it.

― Kris (aqueduct), Friday, 20 June 2003 18:37 (twenty years ago) link

My favorite Descendents song is pre-Milo, "Ride The Wild." I think it's the drum sound, it always reminded me of early Violent Femmes (though listening to it now, I'm not hearing that connection).

I like a lot of pop-punk, older stuff. I don't find the new stuff offensive in the least, but why would I buy any of it when I still have a binder full of Descendents, Mess/Darlington, Green Day and so on? I still pull out some of those albums, but less than I used to. Rancid's [i]Life Won't Wait[/i] holds up pretty well, I like the One Man Army CD I picked up the last time I went to a Warped Tour show, of course the Descendents and the Buzzcocks.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 20 June 2003 19:03 (twenty years ago) link

Another reason I'm not drawn to the Sum 41s and New Found Glories of the world is that I never liked the bands that inspired them (NOFX, Lagwagon, etc.).

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Friday, 20 June 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

I don't know how to respond to this because I love All-American Rejects and Good Charlotte, but I hate New Found Glory and Dashboard Confessional and don't care about Sum 41. I don't think these bands are all one and the same. Dashboard Confessional is a fuckin' Lisa Loeb who won't stop talking about high school. New Found Glory suck so bad they only get SLOWER as the song goes on (they are phyiscally incapable of speeding up). Sum 41 are just kinda really boring (like Weird Al, who would sound like Sum 41 if he was a young punk kid, they do make great videos though). All-American Rejects use grandiose production to make their generic heartbreak yarns massive (god bless 'em!) and Good Charlotte simply made the best pop/rock album since the Replacement's "Let It Be." I can't tell if they're a baby Clash or not since they haven't been around that long. But they made an album a baby Clash would be proud to have in their catalogue.

I notice Good Charlotte gets a little more love each time they release another single. That rocks.

Descendents are ok (my fave is probably "Jean Is Dead"), but yeah, anybody who likes them but hates ALL the pop-punk out there now is probably doing it based on some ass-backwards principle.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 20 June 2003 19:17 (twenty years ago) link

Not really. The production is enough for me not to.
But, uh...I do like Good Charlotte. Don't tell!

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:02 (twenty years ago) link

And I'm pretty sure I'm not biased and alone when I say the lyrics to most Avril Lavigne's songs don't do anything for me AT ALL, even when getting in touch with my inner pre-pubescent femininity.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:14 (twenty years ago) link

Try Kelly Osbourne. She's WAY better than Avril on all counts (ok, Avril's bellowing on "I'm With You" is out of Kelly's range).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:17 (twenty years ago) link

You know what's really sad? Sony have done a really awful job of marketing her album. Even with the show's hype she hardly gets a favorable push. It's sold poorly which is a shame. I've only heard the singles, but they're NAHZ.

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:24 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, anybody who likes them but hates ALL the pop-punk out there now is probably doing it based on some ass-backwards principle.

I haven't heard all the pop-punk out there now and to be frank based on what I HAVE heard, I'm not in the mood to hear more.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:24 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, but Ned, you don't like anything now! You don't count. I'm talking about the I'd-like-Sum-41's-single-if-the-copyright-was-1982.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:25 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, but Ned, you don't like anything now!

I think the more people wrongly simplify my stance the more I'll be amused. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:28 (twenty years ago) link

For me, I suppose it all stems from my soft spot for NOFX. :B

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:34 (twenty years ago) link

:B --->buckteeth, not a split tongue

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Friday, 20 June 2003 20:59 (twenty years ago) link

I like Blink-182 - what i've heard is fun and catchy. Dont underatnd whythey're bing accused of/seen as a sign of decline of wetsern civ.

― H (Heruy), Friday, 20 June 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link

It's worth noting at this point -- I don't think anyone made this distinction earlier -- that Avril Lavigne did not write "Sk8er Boi," or "Complicated."
and Jess/Dubplate... I stand by this:
>> not much of a historical reference point for the "sound" of the Backstreet Boys <<
explain the "?!?!?!?!?!!!???????."

― Ben Boyer, Friday, 20 June 2003 22:22 (twenty years ago) link

Sum 41 is fantastic. "Still Waiting" might be pop-punk's shining moment - of the last five years, at least.

― Samuel Bloch, Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:22 (twenty years ago) link

search: sum 41, offspring, alien ant farm, good charlotte, blur's crazy beat, mel c's falling down.

― lid, Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:20 (twenty years ago) link

you know i used to think avril looked like a racoon, but now i fancy the pants off of her. she just looks like she needs a hug.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:24 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, anybody who likes them but hates ALL the pop-punk out there now is probably doing it based on some ass-backwards principle.

what if you're like me, and you have a token pop-punk band that you like? wouldn't that be seen as dodgy here? (not that i give a fuck, but like ned, most of it just plain annoys me) for the record, my token pop-punk band is blink 182, they can craft some pretty good melodies out of about 3 notes, plus they're fun and danceable.

― di smith (lucylurex), Monday, 23 June 2003 00:02 (twenty years ago) link

eh, that's cool, though I wouldn't be me if I didn't say you shouldn't check out Good Charlotte's, Kelly Osbourne's and the All-American Rejects' latests.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 23 June 2003 00:15 (twenty years ago) link

it's the people who only like pop-punk if it happened within the correct timespan that bug me.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 23 June 2003 00:15 (twenty years ago) link

woah. I triple negatived. You SHOULD check those albums.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 23 June 2003 00:37 (twenty years ago) link

five years pass...

I think the Hard-Ons are pop punk and everyone else can gtfo

― wilter, Wednesday, 15 October 2008 09:39 (fifteen years ago) link

ten months pass...

^^dont remember posting that.

recently remembered 'pop and disorderly' by Limp which came out in 97. I just downloaded it, It's pretty good!

― wilter, Tuesday, 1 September 2009 09:09 (fourteen years ago) link

five years pass...

This Sdekicks album is p enjoyable

― calstars, Saturday, 24 January 2015 03:02 (nine years ago) link

it's all right. last few songs are very good

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 January 2015 04:48 (nine years ago) link

amazing thread

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 January 2015 04:49 (nine years ago) link

(mostly the sidekicks record just made me really want to listen to the cymbals eat guitars album from last year, not that they necessarily sound alike, though maybe there's a case to be made for the former being pop-punk/indie and the latter being indie/emo)

― emo canon in twee major (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 January 2015 04:50 (nine years ago) link

eight years pass...

Wondering how any serious journalist or pundit tricked into promoting the Iraq War lives with the knowledge they were less skeptical of an international conflict than the tracklist for Rock Against Bush pic.twitter.com/fWtxKtZVps
— Gillian Branstetter (@GBBranstetter) March 20, 2023

You wrote for The New York Times and were further behind the curve than Sum 41
— Gillian Branstetter (@GBBranstetter) March 20, 2023

― an icon of a worried-looking, long-haired, bespectacled man (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 20 March 2023 23:32 (one year ago) link

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