To Screen or Not to Screen: Birth of a Nation gets the boot

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point taken.

cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:34 (nineteen years ago) link

i have seen it also. it was on uk network tv about 10 years ago strangley enough.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:36 (nineteen years ago) link

I'd love to see Battleship Potemkin scored to the "Flashdance" OST.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:38 (nineteen years ago) link

LETS ALL GO WATCH INTOLERANCE YEAH YEAH

cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:39 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.cinemorgue.com/npoltavseva.jpg

At First, when there's nothing but a slow glowing dream
That your fear seems to hide deep inside your mind
All alone I have cried silent tears full of pride
In a world made of steel, made of stone

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 22:45 (nineteen years ago) link

gish actually looks like a certain ilxor: http://www.craigcamera.com/lgish.jpg

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:49 (nineteen years ago) link

whoa, that's actually not incorrect.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:49 (nineteen years ago) link

which one and does she have a boyfriend?

AaronHz (AaronHz), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:52 (nineteen years ago) link

geez, that picture scared me. it looks like it's from a horror movie, the way she's sitting and all.

Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:55 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.art-posters.net/posters/art/mbs3742.jpg

jack cole (jackcole), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:57 (nineteen years ago) link

wow, that poster has almost nothing to do with the movie

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 01:59 (nineteen years ago) link

It's so full of intolerance.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:01 (nineteen years ago) link

i presume that is the hand of one of those society busybodies griffith rails at for like 3 hours

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 02:44 (nineteen years ago) link

whoa, that's actually not incorrect.

Spot on! It's uncanny.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 03:00 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't see that where this is shown makes any difference: why should college students be deemed more 'responsible' than anyone else? it's censorship as plain as day, and opens a massive can of worms, since 'brith of a nation' is not exactly alone among hollywood movies in being racist: in its own way 'lost in translation' is just as bad, in that it can only portray the japanese as [comic] stereotypes. where would one stop?

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, which had protested the planned showing, said the movie “poisoned racial relationships in America for nearly a century.”

ultimately this is the same logic that tipper gore used againt rap in the '80s. and possibly the poisoning was done by eg segregation more than by a film?

ENRQ, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 08:05 (nineteen years ago) link

This sort of nonsense can only work if it's applied equally everywhere. Therefore if you're going to ban Birth Of A Nation you need to ban at least 75% of rap/R&B for the offence it causes to women and gays. Either turn Nazi completely and ban everything, or realise that all art is conditioned by the times in which it is created and deal with it.

Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 11 August 2004 08:10 (nineteen years ago) link

in its own way 'lost in translation' is just as bad

enrique have you seen birth of a nation? the racism here is hardly genteel. one scene has mae marsh leap from a cliff to her death to be spared the "fate worse than death"--being raped by a black man. the whole film is driven forward by a terrible fear of miscegnation. and its tied to a vision of history that is profoundly unsettling and perverse (although common enough back then).

to revisit my comments above, i agree that the NAACP is being foolish in trying to prohibit this film's screening publicly. but i guess that i also feel that given all the furor it inevitably causes when being shown in this manner, maybe people could program it more discreetly and less often (which they in point of fact do in general)--as noted above, the film is very easily seen on video.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:14 (nineteen years ago) link

actually enrique the LiT/BoaN comparison is one of the stupidest things i've read on this board.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:16 (nineteen years ago) link

it's a pretty silly comparsion, but easy on the hyperbole there, dude.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:29 (nineteen years ago) link

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/classic.jsrpages/classic/davis/WhalesOfAugust01.jpg

Yup, Lilian is one hott mama.

(I heart her btw)

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:33 (nineteen years ago) link

damn.

cutty (mcutt), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:34 (nineteen years ago) link

WHICH ILXOR LOOKS LIKE GISH? WE MUST KNOW!!!!

na (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:27 (nineteen years ago) link

WHICH ONE?

na (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 15:18 (nineteen years ago) link

It's me. On Fridays. At Cabaret Manhole, on 4th.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Also could seemingly everyone in the west under the age of 30 please look up the word "censorship" in a dictionary? The NAACP does not have anything like the jurisdiction to "go Nazi and ban everything." What the NAACP does have, generally speaking, is a legal team, some lobbying sway, and a rich, honorable, and totally helpful tradition of complaining about shit. There is a difference between (a) "censorship" and (b) people complaining about shit and other people going "oh, sorry then, nevermind" -- and even if you want to argue that the line between them is effectively blurry, simply eliding the language from the latter to the former doesn't cut it.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:42 (nineteen years ago) link

it's not censorship, but a boycott.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link

This is a good point. But why do they want to impoverish our knowledge of the past, however horrible, as opposed to augmenting it?

Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link

no idea. Without racism, or the history of it in America, the function of the NAACP wouldn't exist.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I dunno, Michael: I'm not defending their stance, though I can think of a lot of reasons they'd adopt it. Just pointing out, I suppose in Marcello's direction, that this standard is equally applied everywhere: what films are deemed socially acceptable for screening is decided, every day, in practice, by the grand old social tradition of who's likely to complain about it, and how vocally, and how much traction their complaints will have with the public. Blah blah blah. It's not a very useful endeavor to try and close down a screening -- as opposed to, sure, going in on that contextualizing information or debate -- and I'm sure the would-be screener feels the slightest bit bullied or cornered over the whole thing, but whatever: that's the normal interplay of people being offended and other people not wanting to seem offensive.

(Possibly the NAACP were not big on the "contextualizing debate" idea because they knew it would be TOTALLY BORING.)

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:52 (nineteen years ago) link

it's boring b/c it's usually framed as a debate about "racist stuff: should we see it?" the actually manipulation of american history that makes the movie offensive and interesting isn't usually broached. when it is, it's often by griffith apologists who actually deem the film's version of events to be reasonably accurate (yes, i have heard many people suggest this).

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:55 (nineteen years ago) link

fuck. again, i always add an "-ly" when i mean to use an adjective, and leave it off when i mean to use an adverb. it's some obscure form of dyslexia, i'm convinced.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:56 (nineteen years ago) link

although i concede that a debate about the legacy of reconstruction would probably bore most people, alas.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

debates are supposed to be boring!

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

No, I really was thinking of that uber-boring gently-concerned debate about how right-thinking people are supposed to feel about classic racist works of art. It's like an endless PBS pledge-drive break except someone keeps saying "There are no easy answers."

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:02 (nineteen years ago) link

oh, i heard an endless example of just that regarding leni riefenstahl's films a few months ago on NPR.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, and by the way, I think there may be a generational thing going on here. I mean, the mentality and culture of the NAACP are fairly old-school; in an institutional sense, the kind of racism in Birth of a Nation isn't quite the archaic curiosity we're casting it as. And the leadership of the organization still comes mostly from a sixties Civil Rights mold, where I think there’s much more of a focus on combating these types of representations. When it comes to younger “black leaders,” and black people in general, I think you find more of an acceptance of or comfort with the history of racism in America, and even racism—of the more visible, marginalized, organized kind—in America today.

There’s also the issue that screening this is sort of an “academic” issue that doesn’t translate to the person on the street, which is possibly a consideration that those who object have in mind. It’s a consideration the organizer has in mind, too, clearly—hence the offer to make it explicitly academic, with discussion and such.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:32 (nineteen years ago) link

It's me that looks like Lillian Gish, isn't it? Now I know what all the popular girls have been saying about me behind my back.

na (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:48 (nineteen years ago) link

no you look like Greg Dulli.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Nick you know damn well who looks like Lillian Gish.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, if it's Sarah, that's what I thought, but then I couldn't tell if that's what other people were trying to say or if I was just um what's the word putting my ideas into other people's words.

na (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:52 (nineteen years ago) link

well, you were putting your something into someone else's something, at any rate.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:53 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't know what that means.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 18:53 (nineteen years ago) link

the legacy of reconstruction thing?

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:02 (nineteen years ago) link

There’s also the issue that screening this is sort of an “academic” issue that doesn’t translate to the person on the street, which is possibly a consideration that those who object have in mind. It’s a consideration the organizer has in mind, too, clearly—hence the offer to make it explicitly academic, with discussion and such.

-- nabisco (--...) (webmail), August 11th, 2004 2:32 PM. (nabisco) (later) (link)


that's why i suggested that this film can be quietly screened at a theater attached to a museum or school, and hackles are typically only raised when a commercial cinema (no matter how marginal) wants to show it to the public. few would be likely to think MoMA or the national archive were endorsing the film's worldview, but it gets potentially more ambiguous when it's a commercial cinema. of course this particular cinema did a fine job of trying to advertise the screening in such a way as to placate those concerns, but i guess it didn't work.

that's why i think that, in the real world, it's probably best that places like the silent movie theater not try to show this film. (another reason: there are a million silent films that never get screened publicly that are just as exciting and historical interesting.)

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:06 (nineteen years ago) link

which reminds me of another thing about live-organic-electro-improv soundtracks to silent movies, why are they ALWAYS ALWAYS nosferatu and metropolis

s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:08 (nineteen years ago) link

film is too important to be left to the museums and schools.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:10 (nineteen years ago) link

It needs to be left to Michael Bay.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:14 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, he's all about "purity of essence."

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:15 (nineteen years ago) link

hstencil: i agree, i was just talking about this particular case. i'm all for commercial cinemas showing silent films! that happened a lot more in paris than in the states, but in france those commercial cinemas often get CNC (public) funding to allow for that type of thing.

s1ocki: the chicago summer silent film festival tends to show the same things year after year after year. well, there are always one or two curveballs. but otherwise it's: one german expressionist classick (NOSFERATU/METROPOLIS/CALIGARI/GOLEM), one colleen moore-type flapper romance, one Fairbanks swashbuckler, one louise brooks films, one buster keaton, and one other slapstick (maybe harold lloyd).

i don't really blame them, because they need name-value films that will attract paying customers (they rent out a huge old theater so the operating costs must be high), but still it's a little disappointing to see the same thing--or more or less the same thing--year after year.

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I hate how most revival theatres, in general, show the same old "cult" and "classic" films, all the time. It gets really boring. But I guess it's a dependable revenue stream.

morris pavilion (samjeff), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 19:20 (nineteen years ago) link


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