Is there a name for that genre of turn-of-the-90s pop-rock with the positive vibes, huge guitar leads, and gated drums?

how did we miss this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZUz4C6kqk

"King of Wishful Thinking" barely has any guitar in it at all! The horns are claiming the headliner role here. Once again I recognize the stylistic adjacencies, but I worry we're at risk of drifting into a general "uncool turn-of-the-90s pop" thread.

Alannah Myles' first single, that would eventually be overshadowed by Black Velvet, would fit, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQOrMzBewG0

wow. never heard that before. yeah totally! the chorus is definitely like, the "steamy" version of this sound. the verses sound like a Microsoft Songsmith auto-generated track, or like the "untrained schmoe attempts to restore priceless painting" version of the Talking Heads. - what a weird mix/arrangement!

Lots of George Clanton's stuff mines this sound. The new song is maybe too breakbeat-y to properly qualify, but the vibe is right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLemAUhT3Yc

kinda struggling to hear it tbh. but definitely an interesting set of 90s things to revive!

Yeah I don't hear it in the George Clanton track at all.

The closest thing I could think of as being a modern example of this would be Paramore's Ain't It Fun, but that's like 8 years old and also pulling in some other sounds as well.

Vanilla Ice has a track like this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckFy3v4Fhr8

Road to riches? More like highway to hell!

okay that's amazing. like clearly they were going for a Rick Rubin thing with "Highway to Hell" but ended up on "Life is a Highway" instead. love it.

i guess closer to Jesus Jones with the busy, rave (?)-influenced beat... but the highway thing was just too compelling

This was a minor hit and a recurrent grocery store classic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pavmG-YKLM

I posted about how much I liked the album in the Soda Stereo thread, but Dynamo definitely has some tracks that fit this vibe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2miCyVySnI

What was the message of "Black or White"? I just looked up the lyrics and ... I'm confused.

huh, never heard of Jude Cole before, though i'd bet i probably heard that song as a child. sort of the midpoint between this genre and "roots rock" I guess? with an extra splash of VH1 crooner energy.

apparently Cole started out in Moon Martin's backing band --- limited Googling suggests he may have played on "Rolene," but not the original "Bad Case of Loving You." following his late-80s moment in the spotlight, he went on to start a record label with Kiefer Sutherland (should have named it Stubble Records), marry Michelle Pfeiffer's sister Lori, and become manager and songwriter for the band Lifehouse, although apparently he has nothing to do with their one big hit.

They had two big hits!

Jude Cole was involved with the second one, per wikipedia

Yep.

I might hear "Time For Letting Go" among Cole singles more often in grocery stores.

Cole also had this Soulboi move in the early'90s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2KPsBKvi8I

Is this too raw?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFcGRQROIt0

Dambuilders: "Shrine"

Joan As Policewoman is the violinist.

wow, i never registered that Lifehouse had a career post-"Hanging on a Moment." listening to "You and Me," it sounds just barely familiar, I must have heard it around somewhere along the way. Just wasn't plugged into this kind of stuff in 2005 I guess.

i'm digging "Shrine." too raw for this sound as-is, but seems like a great indie classic to me. there's definitely an alternate universe where they got signed and a producer seized on those big rhythm guitar blurts as the basis for a streamlined hit in this mode.

I can see Michael Penn's "No Myth" as a possible early example of this sound (from 1989). It's got the gated drum energy and big melodic guitar, though the tone is a bit more melancholic.

Another 1989 possible example: "So Alive" by Love and Rockets. Big gated drum groove.

"No Myth" feels like a good example of the "acoustic" version of this style, again towards the roots-rock end of thing. So weird and alien and overproduced once you start paying attention to the mix. One of nabisco's early comments continues to haunt me: "like a drum machine and a Very Corny Bassist playing out of a karaoke box while some guy played rhythm Strat as if there were actually a band around." Also feels like someone involved was going for a "Beatlesy" sound, or maybe a Cloud Nine sound. Bob Clearmountain does seem to have been involved.

"So Alive" also def in the general wheelhouse, closer to the INXS end of things. Just needs somebody to come in and paste a big slab of Rockman guitar strumming over it... you could almost just mix in the "3 Strange Days" part and get away with it.

"No Myth" and "Praying for Time" invented Sugar Ray and Sheryl Crow.

I think this fits in -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDWCWeOomKc

That's a great one.

King's X also big on the sunny/crunchy guitar-driven stomp vibe, e.g. this minor 1990 hit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzEPkbPgdn0

en vogue "free your mind" belongs in this category imo

Haha I loved that King's X song at the time.

omg is "Planes" one of these?

Haha I loved that King's X song at the time.

Still like it tbh

This also popped into my head -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVXjBMK3EkI

omg is "Planes" one of these?

Planes?

sensual aircraft

en vogue "free your mind" belongs in this category imo

― Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Thursday, October 14, 2021 7:25 AM (thirty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

not that i totally understand the parameters of this thread but this song strikes me way more as “r&b + hair metal hangover a la ‘black cat’ by janet” or “featuring slash (even though the song doesn’t feature slash)”

tho if “black or white” counts then maybe i’m wrong

R.E.M.'s "Stand" shares a bit of this DNA.

Collective Soul were briefly mentioned upthread but they sort of inherited the mantle of this sound moving further into the 90s, no?

No! (xp re "Stand")

Yeah I think "Precious Declaration" at least seems to carry this in its sound. Not as sure about their other stuff.

i was just about to mention Collective Soul, and Tonic, in response to hearing King's X's guitar breaks. very direct line of succession IMO.

King's X is a bit different from what I thought this thread was about tbh but if that fits, how about solo Robert Plant like "Tie Dye on the Highway"? "Tall Cool One" might even fit by the narrower definition?

I think I'm coming around to thinking of this unnamed genre as having a pretty small, exclusive "core" of perfect fits, surrounded by various hybrids which are individually more numerous (roots-rock version, clubby/dancey versions) and brushing up against the New Jack Swing solar system also.

To my ears, "Tie Dye on the Highway" lacks too many of the common threads and late 80s production tropes to qualify, but "Tall Cool One" with its booming empty space, makes sense for one of the satellite categories. who is that inventing Marilyn Manson's vocal delivery in the spoken-word section at 1:45?

speaking totally as a layperson when it comes to production, it's hard for me to be too precise about this, but i feel like one of the unifying threads could be producers going ALL in on gating sounds, maybe also something to do with the switch to digital equipment...? the tightest-fitting examples are very very "clean" - sounds decay really quickly and don't overlap and wash together; the sound does not feel like a live band. so for example, even on something as comparatively artificial as "Tall Cool One," Plant knows he's trying to hearken back to Johnny Burnette's "Honey Hush" (right??) and instinctively wants to sound like a bar band that's really cooking, really boogie-ing, perhaps even choogling. the desire for an updated radio-ready sound is cutting across that, to make something that is unmistakably of its time and very weird. but it's still - again, to my ears - distinct from Roxette on "Joyride," where they seem really actively excited about crafting a fresh modern pop-rock sound for the 90s, and every piece of it sounds like it's proud to be pasted in from a different recording session.

"This and That", Michael Penn's follow-up single to "No Myth", has more vigorous rhythm guitar, and less of the vintage keyboard retro elements.

I'd say that the more jangly the rhythm guitar (R.E.M., Cranberries), the further you get from this sound. Appropriately, "Pop Song 89" is probably as close as R.E.M. came to this.

agreed on jangle and "Pop Song 89." would be fascinating to get the isolated tracks of that one and try to remix it with Berry's drums massively overclocked and punching through the mix. "This and That" is pretty close to the mark for an acoustic variant!

Semisonic > Mister Mr. > The Call

(Though Semisonic is late 90s so is more of a piece with the Goos etc.)

Your comments make sense, Dr. Casino.

After checking the video and a couple of live clips from around that time, I'm pretty sure the deep spoken part on "Tall Cool One" was the keyboardist and co-writer Phil Johnstone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey14j7c9Phw

(1:45)

How about Semisonic antecedents Trip Shakespeare?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkOepnPJS3o