Guns n Roses: Critical Rehab

also i really REALLY want to fuck axl (the body not the person: i am not insane thank you)

Yes

"Wasn't Appetite for Destruction a mediocre Sunset Strip-metal album at best (filler/hit ratio laughably tilting toward the former term)"

No. It's a big, dumb, seedy, cartoonish, sleazy, hedonistic beast of an album. Great tunes lift it to a higher plateau. Admittedly some stand out more than the others, but it's filler-free. Who could fail to be moved by "Think About You"? Who could fail to be thrilled by Mr.Brownstone? I'm not awaiting their return with great interest, but the reason for their critical rehab is contained within this record. Don't see the need for revision, myself, it's always been good

1) Slayer was on the radio?
2) Slayer was tough?

I dunno though: I think context may have had something to do with Axl's appearance going over the way it seems to have done. My Weezer-fan coworker saw GnR at Summershine and though she doesn't like them said they were completely great. And I heard bootleg recordings of their New Year's shows from a year or two ago that were pretty great, even for a band I consider mainly a "this is great because these are mediocre times" band.

Which is to say: Slash's understanding of what made Johnny Thunders interesting is like Johnny Thunders minus Johnny Thunders: ditto his reading of late-seventies/early-eighties punk, ditto Axl's super-forced Manson "interest"/heroin dalliances/"controversial" lyrics.

All of which together makes for a fascinating popular figure though

The two Illusions were, of course, absolutely rubbish, but thankfully so completely and utterly bone-headedly preposterous and grandiose that history will always smile favourably on them. Twin double-albums, The Terminator, grand pianos, Bond themes, Get in the ring motherflipper: They'll always look great on paper however vile they might sound on the stereo.

What you said.

Regarding this "revisionist" thing: I didn't read a lot of rockcrit in the late '80s, aside from metal magazines, but the metal magazines (RIP, Circus) had immense respect for GNR -- much more so than for any other then-popular band (except maybe Metallica).

Now, see, I thought ILM was supposed to be against this kinda loaded-with-assumption, I-think-they-suck-therefore-they-suck-and-everybody-else-must-think-they-suck-too shit. You're getting into Amy Phillips/Pitchfork territory here. (Sorry for all the hyphens.)

sorry I get all evangelical abt. LP

Yeah, blame Patrin for that one.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to piss anyone off/lead folk on a G'n'R suck crusade. What I think I was trying to say was that I thought the two Illusions were rubbish, but so grand in scope that they were unforgettable. (I'll drop that 'of course' bit in future)

I am totally the kind of tart who thought ew, Guns n Roses, how awful when they first hit and now likes them. But then I had some kind of taste when they first hit and now I like anything. By about 1990 I thought "Sweet Child O'Mine" was brilliant and Appetite followed hotly on its heels.

count me out

But I like L.A. Guns better anyway, because they really are more of the druggie-degenerates I usta fear.

Mark I really really hope you only mean Axl c. '89, because otherwise this is about as "err?" as saying you wanna fuck Liz Taylor.

[silence]

that's what I thought

My response was going to be something like "?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?" but I think I'll just stick with what you said: I don't hear it, but if you do, more power to you. (I guess.)

(More PUNK in POISON????)

Axl's junkie-for-the-camera schtick sucks all the fun right out of the junkie-rock-star pose -- all that's less is dull romanticization of a figure that's only romantic in the hands of a really capable actor like Reed, or Thunders, or whoever else. Whereas Skid Row had all their ducks lined up. "Youth Gone Wild" sounds better now than most anything outta the GnR catalogue, and Sebastian Bach is a way funnier stage name than "Axl Rose." To say nothing of "W. Axl Rose," yeesh.

PS what does this "method not implemented" screen that comes up every so often when trying to post?

"Youth Gone Wild" is OK. It's the Steve Forbert of that sorta thing. It doesn't really do much musically; it's loud but kinda flaccid.

In "Talk Dirty To Me" alone, if nothing else. Unless you buy into punk being about a spirit instead of a sound or something like that. And even then, why G'n'R instead of Poison? [OT: What is this spirit that punk is always supposed to be about? Any time I hear it explained it always just sounds like basic principles of self-assertiveness that institutional authority figures prescribe to you when you're 10. Or else petty childish selfishness. Or some hybrid of the two. It's more interesting if it's a specific approach to sound.]

I don't think the Bon Jovi/country, Loverboy/disco, or Hysteria/experimentation connections really need explanation beyond a quick listen to side 2 of New Jersey, "Turn Me Loose", or "Rocket". Most of these bands weren't necessarily worth all that much (I don't intend to sit through a whole Poison album anytime soon) but neither was G'n'R AFAIC.

Welllllllllllllllllllllllllllll, it sorta sounds like it could be a Dictators song, albeit not a very good one. Most of the music historically defined as "punk" was not that sexist, though, unless we're talking about crap like Hatebreed.

"You know I call you, I call you on the telephone
I'm only hopin' that you're home
So I can hear you
When you say those words to me
And whisper so softly
I've gotta hear you
Cause baby we'll be..."

that's the real shit!

"You never act the way you should" -- Bret Michaels likes his girls slutty, but he knows that it's not the way they should act.

If some guy told me I wasn't acting the way I should, I'd fucking smack him. But it's entirely possible I'm not attuned enough.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I consider fag-bashing a sexist act -- against men not acting the way they should.

Ah, but he doesn't say that!

(I meant no sarcasm with "It's entirely possible I'm not attuned enough" BTW.)

So how come the critical makeover stateside?

I always remember them being somewhat critically acclaimed back in the late-80's, early 90's (positive comparisions to the Stones and Dolls, Slash as a highly praised guitarist, considered to have made a "credible" power ballad, etc.), so I don't see this critical "makeover" yr talking aboot. The only reason they lost their critical backing after UYI was because Nevermind came out the next week. If anything, I think they've fallen out of favour with critics over the last 12 years because of Axl's Hughes-like disappearence for years, and Shields-like inability to create a follow-up album.

What I mean is that even if you can argue for more blatant examples like the Crue's "Girls Girls Girls" as not having explicitly sexist content within the lyrics themselves, mentally it's hard to separate the song from the images of going-to-seed Vince Neil ogling chicks doused in water.

But charges of sexism may be disingenuous coming from a man, so I'll say no more on the subject. Just throwing the idea out there.

More importantly, whatever your feelings about GnR's style/songs/media profile, the problem with comparing them to Bon Jovi, Loverboy and Poison is that those bands didn't/couldn't rock, and Guns 'N' Roses, at least on Appetite, did.

I remember GnR having a near universal appeal in 1988: Jane's Addiction fans, pop heads, Nietzsche-reading hipsters all loved them. As a highschool senior, I remember seeing a GnR tee shirt (on a metal girl in Madison, Wisconsin) that made me shudder: an illustration of a woman who's just been gang-raped (wasn't this the original cover art for Appetite?). But by the time I was a college freshman in D.C. the same year, I was having long drunk argumenents with new friends about which was better: Appetite or It Takes a Nation of Millions. Both were consensus picks in dorm rooms across the country.

14 years, huh. this song could actually be about the making of Chinese Democracy.

― charlie h, Tuesday, November 27, 2012 12:16 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it is pretty funny: a song izzy wrote about 14 years of friendship when they were 28, and there were 14 years between GNR's last official release and Chinese Democracy. And the lyrics are pretty apt.

we need to get word to izzy to stage a coup, oust axl and all those plastic-faced weirdos and bring back slash and duff

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, November 27, 2012 12:19 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Axl-Izzy sideproject would be the best imo

yeah that's true

songwriting-wise, definitely

they recorded one Izzy song for CD, probably the unreleased song I most want to hear

really? i didn't know that

I'm glad he's still on ok terms with axl - I dunno why but it gives me hope, lol

Izzy's early exit is prob why he's the only member of the classic lineup who seems to be cool w/ everyone -- he saw where things were headed and got out peacefully before it got ugly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW7Z20fJH6I

i posted that on the "welcome to the jungle" thread a few days ago.

Oh. Should be posted in every thread prolly.

believe me, i've thought about doing that

It seems not to be an april fools and actually fucking happening:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-guns-n-roses-at-the-troubadour-tonight-20160401-story.html

http://www.trbimg.com/img-569e96b1/turbine/la-et-ms-guns-n-roses-las-vegas-coachella-2016-001/750/750x422

I like how Axl's outfit *almost* makes it look like a tiny lingerie model is wearing a giant Axl Rose costume

I don't know how Axl is going to stand it, maybe he's forgotten. The dressing room at the Troub is one of the most unpleasant places to sit for hours waiting to play and the specs of the building mean you can't just stay in your hotel/bus and come in at stage time - you can't get into the club from the front without going through the audience, and you can't get up to the dressing room from the back without crossing the stage

Nice Fedora. And what the fuck is that around his mid-section?

Duff looking like Robert Plant

Key tar player really needs to hide

Want to see big tubby Slash

Oh that photo is from two years ago.

It's always something:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/see-axl-roses-doctor-explain-singers-foot-fracture-20160408

Jesus, Οὖτις, that picture! Axl looks like the cover model from Trout Mask Replica.

He should borrow Dave Grohl's throne.

I actually think "Critical Rehab" would be a great title for a G'n'R album.

Mickey Rourke should do something like The Wrestler except where he's Axl.

Would watch

what are the odds that's it's a real injury? Or is this just axl being axl?

He apparently did borrow the throne. This is some grade A comedy

Axl looks like Mark Hamill now

Pretty appealing show review:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/11/arts/music/review-guns-n-roses-partly-reunited-in-its-first-arena-performance.html?_r=0

One advantage of the throne is that Axl can't storm off. Those purported costume changes make me wonder, though. Last time I saw Axl's GNR, at a club, he pretty much left the stage between every song, I assumed for a hit from the O2 tank.

I wonder if playing Double Talkin' Jive is out there as Izzy bait? I know he and Axl are still on good terms, but this would feel better with him in the mix. Or basically anyone that undercuts Axl's parallel crew of session chop ringers with a good dose of sloppy personality.

If Izzy is on good terms with A, and assuming he gets along with Saul, maybe he is just ashamed of his own appearance?

Compared to Axel's appearance?

Izzy played with Axl's GnR off-and-on between 2006 and whenever, but only when he felt like it. Most likely his reasons for not doing this tour are that he hates touring.

Remarkably, Izzy has released 11 solo albums, plus a live album.

It's fairly obvious that Izzy is a guy who does pretty much exactly what he wants, and only exactly when he wants to.

Cue thread for people who have figured out how to live.

http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/video/izzy-stradlin-reunites-with-guns-n-roses-in-las-vegas-20121126/izzy-306x306-1353965308.jpg

Healthiest-looking gnr veteran.

Wow. Good for you, Izzy. Figured out how to live, indeed.

Looks like a slimmer Ronnie O'Sullivan.

has he recorded anything since the juju hounds album? i love that so much

lord help me but I might go to this reunion tour

xpost I wasn't kidding, he's released 11 solo albums!

I'd go to a JuJu Hounds reunion.

I wish Izzy had joined the G N' R reunion - maybe then folks would finally admit the Ju Ju Hounds album is no better than any random Ron Wood solo disc.

Ju Ju Hounds album has at least two really excellent tracks and a handful of pretty good ones. If I could count on that from a Ron Wood solo disc I'd be delighted.

Izzy's 117 Degrees, which was his last album on Geffen, is even better than the JuJu Hounds record. There was a time (GN'R pun intented) you could find it for a dollar at any FYE in America.

Not many people bought Izzy's albums, but everyone who did formed a band that sounded a little like the Faces.