Magic: The Gathering C/D

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There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

three months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (nine years ago) Permalink

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (nine years ago) Permalink

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (nine years ago) Permalink

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (nine years ago) Permalink

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (nine years ago) Permalink

ok http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/ProjectEBAY/MagicCards.html these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (nine years ago) Permalink

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (nine years ago) Permalink

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (nine years ago) Permalink

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (nine years ago) Permalink

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (nine years ago) Permalink

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (nine years ago) Permalink

blue + black deck, my sengir vampires and royal assassins were so so gangster.

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

i had two revised royal assassins

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

maybe more, hell if i remember

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:11 (nine years ago) Permalink

at my 10th bday party i beat the rich kid in magic even tho i had no allowance, i had birthday money and was a HUSTLER with trades

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:12 (nine years ago) Permalink

i think sometimes i threw in some green too, but only if u could throw all mana down first turn and i would use it solely for my force of nature

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

8/8

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

i have a shivan dragon signed by the lady what painted it ;_;

Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

its harder to convince someone to put something in their cube deck that needs very specific support like winding constrictor

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:25 (one week ago) Permalink

how do you feel about the theros gods? they offer the level 1 payoff of animating them, which doesn't really demand anything extra in cube construction or the draft because cube type cards often lean more mana symbol heavy anyway, and a lot of them have a level 2 of an ability that can be built around.

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:45 (one week ago) Permalink

purphoros is great, the others i am not as keen on for various reasons

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:56 (one week ago) Permalink

thassa is a good card but most cubes don't really support a permanent-heavy blue deck. the other 3 and the multicolor ones are all kinda weak or boring or both

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 18:59 (one week ago) Permalink

I play base blue decks that always lose to purphoros

w/ this cube planeswalkers are just a little too good I think. in normal cube planeswalkers are haymakers but not the most powerful thing you can be doing, in this cube they're the top end. dragonlord silumgar feels like the defining card to me.

iatee, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 20:05 (one week ago) Permalink

that's disappointing - I don't really like how Cube matches turn into battles of planeswalkers. after losing a bunch I made an effort to just blindly draft more of them and I've been doing better ever since.

frogbs, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 20:14 (one week ago) Permalink

prioritizing planeswalkers already worked really well for me in legacy cube so it makes sense that it'd be even better here where you have (almost) all the same planeswalkers but fewer of the other powerful cards

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 22:22 (one week ago) Permalink

i think most small-medium cubes have about twice as many planeswalkers as they should. legacy cube is at least a 720 (i think?) so they're stretched more

ciderpress, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 22:23 (one week ago) Permalink

speaking of planeswalkers, I found this article interesting:

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-to-fix-standard/

I have never loved the card type

iatee, Wednesday, 15 March 2017 23:08 (one week ago) Permalink

it's my longstanding belief that planeswalkers below 5cmc should not be 'generalists'. Tezzeret the Schemer, Arlinn Kord, Kiora Master of the Depths, Narset Transcendent all feel much more close to the right power level and positioning to me. i like the card type when they're targetted more specifically like that, but they've just been overstepping the bounds that they had previously set ever since they rebooted the storyline as planeswalker superhero comics

ciderpress, Thursday, 16 March 2017 00:24 (one week ago) Permalink

another planeswalker thought re: chandra - it used to feel really bad to run out planeswalkers like this just to kill a creature and gain 2 life, but spells have fallen so far behind that these minus abilities are equivalent to 3 mana spells rather than 2 mana now, so you're only paying 1 extra mana for the ability to run away with the game on stable boards

ciderpress, Thursday, 16 March 2017 13:04 (one week ago) Permalink

this is why decks can just jam a bunch of chandras even though the card should be bad from behind and bad in multiples - the opportunity cost relative to non-pw spells that fill that role is so small right now

ciderpress, Thursday, 16 March 2017 13:13 (one week ago) Permalink

looks like we're back to people mysteriously finding card from the next set in their booster that happens to have a set mechanic on it http://imgur.com/DEtClqY

but this is very strange. seems like one of those mechanics that gets 5 cards and then is done forever

ciderpress, Saturday, 18 March 2017 02:29 (six days ago) Permalink

(the mechanic is that the bottom half can only be cast from the graveyard - so basically a cross between split cards and flashback)

ciderpress, Saturday, 18 March 2017 02:30 (six days ago) Permalink

that is one ugly-ass template. is it confirmed to be real?

Vinnie, Saturday, 18 March 2017 04:26 (six days ago) Permalink

no but photo of physical card + untraceable art essentially always means real

ciderpress, Saturday, 18 March 2017 04:44 (six days ago) Permalink

i suspect the frame design is so that you can put them sideways in your graveyard and the front half will get covered up but the back half will stick out to the right like a mini-card. very much function over form.

ciderpress, Saturday, 18 March 2017 04:49 (six days ago) Permalink

Thats cool but ugly as hell

frogbs, Saturday, 18 March 2017 12:40 (six days ago) Permalink

here's the mtgo uncommon run for modern masters 3: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8982924

hopefully no mistakes in there, i threw it together pretty quick this time

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 00:21 (yesterday) Permalink

superb, thanks man. i'd love to now how, if you are willing to disclose your trade secrets.

currently joint 8th on the trophy board with 1, next stop pro tour

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 23 March 2017 00:53 (yesterday) Permalink

that should be know how, obv

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 23 March 2017 00:54 (yesterday) Permalink

i just pull up a bunch of twitch streams and fastforward through the recorded vids recording all the uncommons and then piece it together in a spreadsheet. there were so many people streaming drafts this afternoon that it didnt take long

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 02:21 (yesterday) Permalink

that's smart. well, thanks again for sharing here.

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 23 March 2017 13:26 (yesterday) Permalink

i'm probably going to shoot an email to the magic online folks suggesting that they complexify it for future sets, i think it slightly cheapens the draft experience once you know about it and i'd rather have a better draft experience than a small edge

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 13:38 (yesterday) Permalink

100% agree with that in principle i.e. i am still going to use your list in the meantime. even if they are committed to the idea of replicating print runs, there has to be more than one.

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 23 March 2017 13:45 (yesterday) Permalink

yeah this is way simpler than the paper print runs, which if they work how i think they do can never be narrowed down to fewer than 8 possible cards for a missing uncommon

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 15:30 (yesterday) Permalink

the only evidence i have supporting my paper print run theory though is that i opened an upside down renegade wheelsmith once

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 15:32 (yesterday) Permalink

For this format, is multi-colored good stuff generally the way to go? What would put you in just 2 colors?

My one draft so far was straight RB. I had a consistent unearth deck, but it still felt like I was doing it wrong.

Moodles, Thursday, 23 March 2017 16:02 (yesterday) Permalink

i think a strict 2 colour deck needs the pair to be really open. if you get the nut in RB, UW or GW those all look like they could be solid. i'm not convinced by GR and while i think UB could stand alone, since that deck is going to be more controlling i'm not sure why you wouldn't have 1 or more other colours with it. i actualy think RB is the one color pair that lends itself the most to 2 colour as it is the most dependent on synergy, i.e. a lot of the cards just suck if it doesn't come together.

i suspect the way to approach this draft format is to take whatever powerful cards 1-3 and then take lands and follow the lands you get to figure out the open colours.

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 23 March 2017 16:13 (yesterday) Permalink

it seems like there's a spectrum from 2-color aggro or linear deck to 2.5 color midrange to 3-5 color control. i think even the enemy-color pairs despite not being as supported are fine if your deck is focused because the card quality is so high across the board

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 17:04 (yesterday) Permalink

i would approach this format like cube, as with all the modern masters sets - you're going to get 30 playables regardless of what you do so spend the first several picks figuring out what you want your deck's plan to be and then just draft with that endpoint in mind

i use this approach for every format but it becomes more correct the better the card quality

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 17:09 (yesterday) Permalink

ive been drafting 3 color control decks simply because theyre easy to fall into - you draft a bomb, some removal, some fixing and then you cant really pivot into one of the leaner synergy-based decks w.o giving up too many picks. but i think the two color decks w/lots of synergy are the strongest decks you can draft, theyre what i keep losing finals too (although in leagues i know theres no guarantee theyre also 2-0)

but yeah ive just been trying to stay open and make sure i have a powerful enough topend to compete w/ w/e rares my opponents will have. counterspells have been really good for me, better than removal generally

( ^_^) (Lamp), Thursday, 23 March 2017 18:35 (yesterday) Permalink

wizards claimed draft league matching would be same record only. have they definitely deviated from that?

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 23 March 2017 18:40 (yesterday) Permalink

it generally is but i play at weird hours and have had non-matching records before. the MM3 league was busy enough last night i doubt that happened though

( ^_^) (Lamp), Thursday, 23 March 2017 18:42 (yesterday) Permalink

it looks for same record for a few minutes and then loosens more and more as it fails to find matches

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 18:43 (yesterday) Permalink

i doubt you'll get mismatches in the intermediate draft leagues

ciderpress, Thursday, 23 March 2017 18:44 (yesterday) Permalink

ok makes sense

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 23 March 2017 18:45 (yesterday) Permalink

yeah it basically only happens when the draft league is slow which ime is like 4-6AM EST, later into a format. also a couple of times when ive played out an 0-2 draft ive gotten pair up presumably due to the lack of ppl playing out their 0-2. it happens more frequently in standard constructed leagues

( ^_^) (Lamp), Thursday, 23 March 2017 19:41 (yesterday) Permalink

it's really difficult to go any worse than 4-5 in the Friendly Sealed leagues because of that...if you start out 1-3 or something you WILL get to face a gauntlet of 48-card decks that splash two colors

frogbs, Thursday, 23 March 2017 19:44 (yesterday) Permalink

Lamp have you had any luck with GW yet? its best common should be call of the conclave but i'm worried that card is not actually playable because of the vast amounts of mist ravens and dinrova horrors i'm running into

ciderpress, Friday, 24 March 2017 02:09 (five hours ago) Permalink

i've drafted core GW twice for combined 5-1. call and slime molding can easily outsize what a lot of decks are doing, especially if you throw in one of the anthems, and i suspect the advantage you can get is worth the danger of facing that one deck that will just murder your tokens. my one loss was to that deck of course, vanish into memory is a brutal beating, but even so it was close with the way the deck can curve out and flood the board. multiple token makers are good - a couple eyes in the skies recommended, fists of ironwood preferably on a moa, and lingering souls most of all of course.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 24 March 2017 02:31 (five hours ago) Permalink

the 4-drop slot is really juiced in this set, as if signets weren't already good enough

ciderpress, Friday, 24 March 2017 04:29 (three hours ago) Permalink

it's so hard to end up with enough 2s and 3s and also so hard to not end up with too many 4s

ciderpress, Friday, 24 March 2017 04:30 (three hours ago) Permalink


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