Magic: The Gathering C/D

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There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (12 years ago) Permalink

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (12 years ago) Permalink

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (12 years ago) Permalink

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (12 years ago) Permalink

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (12 years ago) Permalink

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (12 years ago) Permalink

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (12 years ago) Permalink

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (12 years ago) Permalink

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (12 years ago) Permalink

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (12 years ago) Permalink

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (12 years ago) Permalink

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (12 years ago) Permalink

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (12 years ago) Permalink

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (12 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (11 years ago) Permalink

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (11 years ago) Permalink

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (11 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (11 years ago) Permalink

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (11 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

ok these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

blue + black deck, my sengir vampires and royal assassins were so so gangster.

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

i had two revised royal assassins

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

maybe more, hell if i remember

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

at my 10th bday party i beat the rich kid in magic even tho i had no allowance, i had birthday money and was a HUSTLER with trades

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

i think sometimes i threw in some green too, but only if u could throw all mana down first turn and i would use it solely for my force of nature

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (8 years ago) Permalink


deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

i have a shivan dragon signed by the lady what painted it ;_;

Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've been out of it for a while, what's shooting up to crazy prices?

frogbs, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 12:53 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

don't know about paper but new jace is about 70 tix online now. i think i opened three during origins and prob sold for 70 total.

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 13:02 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

Delve is a degenerate mechanic and fetch lands are dumb as shit, this is what we get when they bring them back. Luckily with the new standard rotation scheme they'll be gone in 6 months rather than a year.

Also there's definitely other strategies that work, it's just easier to build the goodstuff midrange decks so if they're not worse than the other options then there's no incentive to test other stuff

ciderpress, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 13:13 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

Origins jace is strong but its power seems appropriately gated if fetches don't exist

ciderpress, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 13:18 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

ok so I haven't been following the BFZ stuff at all (we had a baby...)

I know they've reprinted all the fetches/shocks in some fashion, but does this mean they're all standard legal now? Because if so, that's really dumb - resulting in exactly the sort of enviroment that Moodles is describing, where everyone plays Modern Jund-type decks full of overpowered mythics.

frogbs, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 13:23 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

There are ally colored fetches and new ally colored duals that are worse than shocks but are fetch-able in standard currently, yes. Having only the ally ones leads to a weird situation where playing 4 colors is no harder than playing 3 colors so there's just a lot of 4 color midrange decks.

ciderpress, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 13:28 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

Right, the issue is the combination of fetches & battle lands makes mana bases too open-ended, plus you have all these ridiculous graveyard interactions with cards like Jace, Kolaghan's Command, Ojutai's Command, Den Protector, Deathmist Raptor, delve cards, allowing you to recur and re-use cards endlessly. It feels oppressive to me, but maybe I was just spoiled by the way things had been going over the past year.

some solid graveyard hate could possibly help the situation

too young for seapunk (Moodles), Tuesday, 27 October 2015 14:57 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

The PT was pretty silly, with deck names like Dark Jeskai and Blue Abzan. I remember reading something the developers said about how they wanted lands that would encourage two color decks. Don't know if they meant post fetches, but right now it's pretty dumb how every deck can play any card.

Vinnie, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 15:10 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

I do like BFZ limited now that I've played it a bit. There's a bit of variety of decks to make, and it feels like there's less bombs (though Rolling Thunder at uncommon increases the number). I still get confused what cards are allies and what cards have ingest though. I think they failed a bit on the theming.

Vinnie, Tuesday, 27 October 2015 15:34 (4 weeks ago) Permalink

Shadows Over Innistrad confirmed for April

too young for seapunk (Moodles), Sunday, 1 November 2015 02:55 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

i did a few bfz prerelease sealeds on mtgo when it came out even tho they are shitty value but i 4-0'd nearly all of them and had some good opens so i went into the format with like 40 packs and a bunch of tix. since then my limited rating has dropped exactly 150 points from 1856 to 1706 and the cupboard is bare. think i ought to take a break until April maybe.

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 4 November 2015 00:00 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

None of this is surprising to me, but it's interesting to see this spelled out in such detail:

I'm not super upset about the high prices, I've resigned myself to playing mediocre decks like R/G Landfall and Aristocrats. The frustrating thing for me is that local standard play has absolutely bottomed out in Austin, TX. During Khans block, my LGS would get between 20-30 people for FNM standard. Now, it's a struggle to get even 8 people, and this is the case across a bunch of stores. I'd be ok with my crappy decks if there was a consistent pool of players to compete with.

too young for seapunk (Moodles), Monday, 9 November 2015 15:49 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

the landfall deck is not mediocre, the become immense / temur battle rage combo is really brutal for standard. also the ramp decks are putting up results on MTGO now which is opening up the format a lot since there's now a predator for the midrange decks

the current high prices are mostly a product of the fetchlands which are going away in the next rotation. without them jace is a lot less powerful and manabases move back towards 2 colors as a default instead of 3-4.

ciderpress, Monday, 9 November 2015 16:09 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I guess what I'd say is that landfall is the best deck I have access to, but it still feels a bit underpowered. It manages to get by in part because many decks (except Jeskai black) don't pack enough removal to disrupt it. This could easily change if the deck gains at all.

I agree that this state of affairs will probably change at next rotation assuming we don't see enemy fetches come back or something crazy like that. It would also be helped if Oath contained a reasonable amount of premium removal and graveyard hate.

too young for seapunk (Moodles), Monday, 9 November 2015 16:15 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

this is the first standard in 3 years that I have had any interest in, cause jeskai black seems like the first cool modern-style tempo deck in years

not gonna actually build it though

iatee, Monday, 9 November 2015 16:39 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

this deck isn't nearly at the same power level, but it allows you to play a modern-style tempo game and is a more affordable option.

too young for seapunk (Moodles), Monday, 9 November 2015 16:50 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

jeskai black is more of a clunky midrange deck to me

after playing delver in standard, pretty much all new standard 'tempo' decks feel like crap in comparison. i've been ruined

ciderpress, Monday, 9 November 2015 17:25 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

yeah I don't think they ever want a delver equivalent or strong cheap countermagic in standard, which means that a true tempo deck is only gonna be happen again if they screw something up

iatee, Tuesday, 10 November 2015 04:44 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

considering all the incredibly shitty changes to mtgo since i started playing it in 2012 im not sure why but the change to mocs is the one that bothers me the most.

LEGIT (Lamp), Friday, 13 November 2015 19:53 (1 week ago) Permalink

what elements in particular? i like that it is easier to get into a mocs event now but all the events being standard and modern is lame imo.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 13 November 2015 20:16 (1 week ago) Permalink

anyone play the legendary cube yet? I played one last night and found it pretty fun. idk if it will be too hard to solve though. it's sooo slow, peoples' curves start at 4 and it mostly seems to be about choice removal vs choice bombs.

iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 00:20 (6 days ago) Permalink

on of my budz says he's still gonna be picking signets over everything as if this were a normal cube, but idk if that's actually even right because the format is slow enough that you can't really do anything broken within the first few turns anyway. the big mana rocks seem really strong though.

iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 00:24 (6 days ago) Permalink

ive watched some streams but it seems like the exact kind of magic that i find unfun so ill probably skip it

apparently gp pittsburg hit their cap earlier today which is interesting to me. validates my decision not to make the drive down i think

LEGIT (Lamp), Friday, 20 November 2015 00:43 (6 days ago) Permalink

yeah people really like modern. I have kinda burnt out on it but maybe I should just start playing a deck that doesn't always lose to burn and tron. I kinda think burn is probably just the best deck in modern. they really need to stop printing new burn cards.

iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 00:48 (6 days ago) Permalink

'burnt out on it'

iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 00:50 (6 days ago) Permalink

legendary cube doesn't seem like my thing if it's basically the cube parallel to EDH, which is what it looks like.

i think my mtgo burnout period is about over at this point, now i'm just waiting for a new limited/standard format i like before i dive back in. BFZ is ok but way too loud about its intentions strategy-wise, there's not really any discovery process, the decks are all just there in your face from the start. i never feel compelled to draft a ton in formats where that's the case

ciderpress, Friday, 20 November 2015 15:43 (6 days ago) Permalink

I think the edhness is overstated a little bit probably, but I have been drafting control decks w/ like 5 creatures

iatee, Friday, 20 November 2015 15:46 (6 days ago) Permalink

guy from my local store top 8ed the GP with commune with lava scapeshift, i've spent the last year or 2 throwing unusual cards in that deck but i feel like i've been outdone here

ciderpress, Monday, 23 November 2015 17:54 (3 days ago) Permalink

commune with lolva

cider did you play the gp?

LEGIT (Lamp), Monday, 23 November 2015 17:59 (3 days ago) Permalink

no i didn't make it

would have played scapeshift or infect, that's all i've got atm

ciderpress, Monday, 23 November 2015 18:13 (3 days ago) Permalink

anyone got some draft advice for BFZ? played a monogreen deck with lots of Eldrazi and got crushed - didn't get a whole lot of accel and my big dudes kept getting bounced. hadn't seen a single card from the set before the draft which means I was probably hopeless going in, now I know a little more but still have no clue what's good/not

frogbs, Monday, 23 November 2015 19:47 (3 days ago) Permalink

A lot of pros seem to think you should stay away from green altogether

too young for seapunk (Moodles), Monday, 23 November 2015 19:52 (3 days ago) Permalink

ppl avoiding green is at en extreme right now but even so you have to have a really good reason to be there. for any green deck (landfall, ramp, converge/allies, bg sac) you have to have a strong start with the other half of the deck before it is worth looking at most green cards, in particular the weak commons. e.g. you can pick up a bunch of good aggressive red cards early pack 1 that could be the start of a few different decks but you want to be getting something rare or uncommon like grove rumblers tabling before you go green.

ramp really has to be land ramp to work, with the scions being 1/1s they are often too valuable to sac and risk getting your fatty bounced or killed. e.g. the 2/3 plus scion 4 drop is a decent card especially for the modal value of the 1/1 but if you lose that for nothing the 4 drop 2/3 is a bit gross.

the allies deck can be v strong but it only fires if you have a bunch of the strong uncommons, especially the rw double strike dude, the menace guy and the tapper. i would take one of those speculatively early and see if a few arrive in a row before being happy about going that direction.

but unless you get a good steer early in another direction, some combo of the grixis devoid colours is the safest route to a decent deck.

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:02 (3 days ago) Permalink

uw fliers is solid, just be careful of overextending on awaken and getting short on mana. it is a mana intensive format for sure.

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:04 (3 days ago) Permalink

is this like Black in Avacyn Restored, or even worse? hard to believe R&D would nerf a color so hard in this modern era

both decks I lost to were 3-color - is this strange or are 3 color decks common? also is it proper to play 18 land here?

frogbs, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:44 (3 days ago) Permalink

yes 18, i might've played 19 as often as 17. 3+ colours is fine but the fixing is scarce so you have to have a good reason and then prioritize evolving wilds etc. i think part of the reason green is so poor is that they have kind of sacrificed it as the foundation of multicoloured decks instead of adding more broad fixing. the 3 drop guy who taps for any colour might be the nest green common, and this set's variation of the common land grab spell is very playable.

Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:56 (3 days ago) Permalink

evolving wilds is almost first pickable, I have def 2nd picked it a few times now.

19 is def okay if you are using one or two utility lands too.

awaken cards are all better than they seem. just pretend that they're creatures. roil spout is better than most rares.

iatee, Monday, 23 November 2015 20:58 (3 days ago) Permalink

is this like Black in Avacyn Restored, or even worse? hard to believe R&D would nerf a color so hard in this modern era

its more that green is like 100% roleplayer cards and archetype filler so theres no premium commons to draw you into it and no real payoff for being The Green Drafter, the cards are all too deck specific

ciderpress, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 02:57 (2 days ago) Permalink

If green is open there's a good chance of getting lots of so-so green cards and no payoff cards

too young for seapunk (Moodles), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 03:03 (2 days ago) Permalink

that said, some of the green archetypes are solid - RG landfall and the '5-color' green deck (usually GWU) come to mind - but the green cards for those decks are generally available mid-late, you're early picking the red burn spells or the UW awaken spells, and those cards let you get into other powerful decks in the event that green isn't wide open to support them

i think the only non-rare green card i've pack 1 pick 1'd in this format is Brood Monitor

ciderpress, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 03:25 (2 days ago) Permalink

i 'like' u/g a fair bit in this format at least rn in mtgo 8-4s. this is the fourth pick greenwarden of murasa meta admittedly. you also often end up splashing either white or black in these decks for rares.

LEGIT (Lamp), Tuesday, 24 November 2015 06:45 (2 days ago) Permalink

my big problem was getting Conduit of Ruin out and having it killed right away. those Awaken/bounce spells are nasty. I knew this card was a trap!!

frogbs, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 14:02 (2 days ago) Permalink

haha that is a sad sequence for sure. conduit still a v good card despite the risk

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 24 November 2015 14:30 (2 days ago) Permalink

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