Magic: The Gathering C/D

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There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

three months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (eight years ago) Permalink

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (eight years ago) Permalink

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (eight years ago) Permalink

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (eight years ago) Permalink

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (eight years ago) Permalink

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (eight years ago) Permalink

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (eight years ago) Permalink

ok these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (eight years ago) Permalink

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (eight years ago) Permalink

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (eight years ago) Permalink

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (eight years ago) Permalink

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (eight years ago) Permalink

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (eight years ago) Permalink

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (eight years ago) Permalink

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (eight years ago) Permalink

blue + black deck, my sengir vampires and royal assassins were so so gangster.

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

i had two revised royal assassins

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (eight years ago) Permalink

maybe more, hell if i remember

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:11 (eight years ago) Permalink

at my 10th bday party i beat the rich kid in magic even tho i had no allowance, i had birthday money and was a HUSTLER with trades

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:12 (eight years ago) Permalink

i think sometimes i threw in some green too, but only if u could throw all mana down first turn and i would use it solely for my force of nature

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (eight years ago) Permalink


deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (eight years ago) Permalink

i have a shivan dragon signed by the lady what painted it ;_;

Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:25 (eight years ago) Permalink

It's super sad to me that Cuneo doesn't stream a lot anymore because it was always such a delight to watch him, but him stopping seemed to coincide exactly with him getting good again, so ~

Gravel Puzzleworth, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 15:00 (one week ago) Permalink

I love cuneo too, one of my t5 fav players

iatee, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 15:03 (one week ago) Permalink

apparently close to 100 ppl at the pro tour decided that the turbo aetherworks marvel decks were consistent enough, this is pretty weird to have such an all-in combo deck be a major part of standard after they've been suppressing them for so long

ciderpress, Saturday, 15 October 2016 02:41 (one week ago) Permalink

so I was riding pretty high tonight after 4-0ing FNM with my spirits deck, didn't really think things could get much better. Then I opened Mana Crypt.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 15 October 2016 05:05 (one week ago) Permalink

not bad!

Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 15 October 2016 11:51 (one week ago) Permalink

nice work Moodles

So far I am not digging the Aetherworks deck at the PT. Keep uninteractive decks out of Standard please, we already have Modern for that. I do find it amusing though that Contingency Plan made it into a Constructed deck, a card I absolutely never would have guessed

Vinnie, Saturday, 15 October 2016 12:19 (one week ago) Permalink

I mean to say that I am not digging WATCHING it, I'm sure it's a good enough deck to compete if that many pros are on it

Vinnie, Saturday, 15 October 2016 12:20 (one week ago) Permalink

do we know which if any of the big teams are playing it? it could be a high risk high reward choice by worse teams trying to spike the event.

iatee, Saturday, 15 October 2016 12:42 (one week ago) Permalink

This was the deck I faced in the finals last night. It turns out Aetherworks Marvel doesn't match up well against Spell Queller, and if you can't cast Aetherworks Marvel, the whole plan kind of falls apart. My biggest challenge was managing the Cranes because they are such good blockers against most of my deck.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 15 October 2016 14:54 (one week ago) Permalink

yeah spell queller just shits on the marvel deck

ciderpress, Saturday, 15 October 2016 15:07 (one week ago) Permalink

Not sure which teams specifically, but they've had a couple pros on camera playing Aetherworks. Owen Turtenwald is on it, which is usually a sign that the deck is good

Vinnie, Saturday, 15 October 2016 15:08 (one week ago) Permalink

no doubt it is good, it can pretty reliably crank out a turn 4 monster, but like so many combo decks in Standard, it is a bit fragile.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 15 October 2016 15:10 (one week ago) Permalink

yeah it seems unplayable if people are ready for it since there is so little you can do to protect your combo, finding it is already hard enough

iatee, Saturday, 15 October 2016 15:44 (one week ago) Permalink

shota having multiple main deck ceremonious rejections was p lol yesterday

( ^_^) (Lamp), Saturday, 15 October 2016 17:30 (one week ago) Permalink

It's a good card!

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 15 October 2016 17:34 (one week ago) Permalink

PT top 8 #5 for Lee Shi Tian?? I don't feel like anyone ever talks about electing him to the hall of fame, maybe because he's not even eligible for a couple more years, but I feel like this has got to cement him.

Vinnie, Sunday, 16 October 2016 11:08 (six days ago) Permalink

was hoping there was a dynavolt tower deck, that's my favorite energy card in kaladesh

ciderpress, Sunday, 16 October 2016 14:49 (six days ago) Permalink

pierre dagen has a ur spells deck w/ 4 towers

Roberto Spiralli, Sunday, 16 October 2016 14:52 (six days ago) Permalink

oh wait, misunderstood

Roberto Spiralli, Sunday, 16 October 2016 14:52 (six days ago) Permalink

after flying high at FNM, I decided on a whim to take my deck to a PPTQ yesterday, which was my first competitive REL event in over a year. Ended up 4-2, 15th out of 48. I would have loved to sneak into the top 8, but I'm pretty happy with the experience overall. I took down 3 different energy decks: one Aetherworks, one Dynavolt Tower control, and one that was trying to make infinite servos. I got absolutely demolished by Grixis emerge, not really sure what I can do to stop that deck's graveyard shenanigans.

Now I'm getting ready for Game Day. I like a bunch of the U/W decks that popped up at the Pro Tour, so I may do something similar. I've also been gathering up cards for R/B aggro and R/W vehicles. Don't know which is the best direction. Spirits feels like it's not quite tier 1, but it has the element of surprise, not a lot of people are preparing for it, plus it is really good against all these combo decks that are popping up. It is pretty weak to delirium and emerge, and maybe 50/50 against the aggro decks.

R/B and R/W seem much more powerful, but are such known quantities at this point that they seem less attractive. Which way should I go?

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 17 October 2016 14:44 (five days ago) Permalink

i like the spirits deck (both the full tribal version and the UW midrange one from the PT) so if you've got a lot of practice with that i'd just keep running it

i'm working on metalwork colossus ramp myself but i haven't gotten it to a state where i'm completely happy with it yet - i'll be playing either that or spirits at the grand prix next weekend

ciderpress, Monday, 17 October 2016 15:22 (five days ago) Permalink

do you have a particular spirits build you like or is that TBD?

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 17 October 2016 16:00 (five days ago) Permalink

this is from memory since i don't have access to mtgo at the moment

4 mausoleum wanderer
4 selfless spirit
4 rattlechains
4 spell queller
3 nebelgast herald
2 bygone bishop
2 archangel avacyn

2 essence flux
2 anticipate
2 revolutionary rebuff
2 unsubstantiate
3 stasis snare
2 gideon, ally of zendikar

8 plains
8 island
4 port town
4 prairie stream

sideboard is up in the air but currently something like
1 jace, whatever his subtitle is now
1 linvala the preserver
2 ceremonious rejection
2 negate
1 summary dismissal
1 stasis snare
1 bygone bishop
2 elder deep fiend
1 quarantine field
3 blessed alliance

i think it is very possible that just replacing the anticipates+rebuffs with smugglers copters improves the deck, but i havent tried it yet. niblis of frost is also an interesting direction to go but requires changing a bunch of cards to make work and isn't good vs control which just won the pro tour

ciderpress, Monday, 17 October 2016 16:52 (five days ago) Permalink

This is very close to what I ran yesterday. I agree with swapping in copter. A couple changes I'm seeing in the PT lists is swapping Wanderer with Thraben Inspector and Nebelgast with Reflector Mage. I'm on board with swapping in Inspector, but I don't really like Mage over Nebelgast because you lose a lot of flash and spirit synergies, and a lot of the creatures you might bounce with Mage have strong ETB effects.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 17 October 2016 17:09 (five days ago) Permalink

the pt deck is very much just a UW midrange deck, not a spirits deck. that's fine as well, you just need to be comfortable with playing grindier games rather than aggroing people out

ciderpress, Monday, 17 October 2016 17:10 (five days ago) Permalink

I'm going to try keeping in Nebelgast, I don't feel like I'd get much from Reflector Mage. I'm happy with the deck's ability to shift gears towards control as is.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 17 October 2016 17:37 (five days ago) Permalink

nebelgast is definitely better in the tribal version

ciderpress, Monday, 17 October 2016 17:39 (five days ago) Permalink

okay so I just got matched up against the same dude twice in a row during a Sealed league, which sucks because even though I won the first match (thanks to him getting colorscrewed in game 3), his deck was absolutely nuts and I got obliterated the second match. didn't know that was possible!!!

frogbs, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 03:34 (three days ago) Permalink

yeah its not supposed to happen i dont think? but its definitely happened to me in constructed leagues where theres fewer players in the pool

ciderpress, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 03:45 (three days ago) Permalink

here's where i'm currently at with colossus

it really feels like its missing some major piece but it'd have to be a noncreature artifact and i've scoured all of standard and haven't found it yet - have tested everything up to and including aetherflux reservoir

ciderpress, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 04:22 (three days ago) Permalink

Panharmonicon isn't playable, is it? Doubles up Crane, Prism, Puzzleknot, Trap, Skysovereign, but I doubt even that is enough to earn its place

Seer's Lantern seems like it could be ok though. Maybe Terrarion?

Vinnie, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 04:33 (three days ago) Permalink

ive tried those. panharmonicon is crappy, the others are okay but dont really improve things especially in the bad matchups. i think more keys + kozilek's return might be worth pursuing

ciderpress, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 04:51 (three days ago) Permalink

what's the Woodweaver's Puzzleknot for?

frogbs, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 16:14 (three days ago) Permalink

artifacts for colossus and helping stay alive, presumably

Roberto Spiralli, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 16:25 (three days ago) Permalink

I'm excited for 24 months of turn 4 Aetherworks Marvel cheating a massive win condition onto the board!

Remember when it felt like Collective Company was Standard-legal forever?

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 16:30 (three days ago) Permalink

But seriously, I generally take wotc's endless and capricious tweaks to their model in stride, but this new change has me irritated. Was the new set rotation really just an unmitigated disaster?

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 17:13 (three days ago) Permalink

yeah this completely blindsided me and everyone else i know, so a lot of negative feedback must have been coming from newer/less competitive players. i'm fine with it though it sucks that the set that benefits most from it is oath of the gatewatch which has a lot of overbearing midrange cards and not a lot of fun synergy stuff

ciderpress, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 18:15 (three days ago) Permalink

People seem pretty positive about the change, so I guess the shorter rotation was pretty unpopular. I was personally happy to see baby Jace, Collective Company, and Dromoka's Command go away, and I wasn't particularly saddened to bid farewell to Siege Rhino or fetchlands before that. It seems like every Standard format has a handful of obnoxious cards that overstay their welcome.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Wednesday, 19 October 2016 18:20 (three days ago) Permalink

xp green puzzleknot is just for staying alive while progressing towards colossus. in a perfect world you'd get to play black puzzleknot in that slot but we need to make concessions to aggro, and vs control it still ends up representing half of a colossus redraw at some point which isn't the worst

ciderpress, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 18:31 (three days ago) Permalink

jace and collected company would have had the same run under either rotation scheme since they were from spring/summer sets. siege rhino and the fetchlands did get cut short though.

the losers here are obviously the spring/summer blocks, i wonder if they'll make a conscious effort going forward to put what they think is the better constructed set of each pair of blocks in the fall slot. kaladesh seems like a nice one to have for the max length but if there's something particularly sweet in HOUR OF DEVASTATION it still only gets 15 months.

ciderpress, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 18:32 (three days ago) Permalink

Yeah I too had no idea it was an unpopular change, but most of the Magic players I hear opinions from are pretty deep into competitive play. As someone who basically never plays Standard but enjoys watching it, I like the format changing often, but obv my opinion doesn't count for much

Vinnie, Thursday, 20 October 2016 00:23 (two days ago) Permalink

it's pretty unusual for standard to have a card go coast to coast as the best card, even collected company wasn't oppressive until reflector mage which came out halfway through its window

ciderpress, Thursday, 20 October 2016 01:12 (two days ago) Permalink

While you mention Collected Company, sometimes I wonder how much the current state of things affects players' opinions. For example, I bet it was a lot easier for players to swallow the change to all Standard PTs after the Modern PT this year. Collected Company was kind of an exception to Standard, I think pretty clearly the best card in Standard this year when there isn't always a best card, and I wonder if some of the players who don't like the change to a slower rotation have that card's oppressiveness in mind (I certainly do)

Vinnie, Thursday, 20 October 2016 01:45 (two days ago) Permalink

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