Magic: The Gathering C/D

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There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (13 years ago) Permalink

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (13 years ago) Permalink

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (13 years ago) Permalink

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (13 years ago) Permalink

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (13 years ago) Permalink

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (13 years ago) Permalink

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (13 years ago) Permalink

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (13 years ago) Permalink

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (13 years ago) Permalink

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (13 years ago) Permalink

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (13 years ago) Permalink

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (13 years ago) Permalink

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (13 years ago) Permalink

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (13 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (12 years ago) Permalink

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (12 years ago) Permalink

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (12 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (11 years ago) Permalink

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (11 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

ok http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/ProjectEBAY/MagicCards.html these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

blue + black deck, my sengir vampires and royal assassins were so so gangster.

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

i had two revised royal assassins

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

maybe more, hell if i remember

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

at my 10th bday party i beat the rich kid in magic even tho i had no allowance, i had birthday money and was a HUSTLER with trades

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

i think sometimes i threw in some green too, but only if u could throw all mana down first turn and i would use it solely for my force of nature

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

8/8

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

i have a shivan dragon signed by the lady what painted it ;_;

Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

I thought the doc did a good job giving an overview of the PT, and I thought it was dramatic enough. Though you're probably right, Scott, that if outsiders had made it we'd get a different perspective. I agree that the personal parts were the most interesting, the only parts that were new for me

Vinnie, Thursday, 5 May 2016 23:25 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

I realize this ain't the brag thread but I just 9-0'd one of those new leagues with a R/W deck. Had "only" 2 rares, Bygone Bishop and Burn From Within. MVP card was the 2x Expose Evil - what a workhorse that was.

frogbs, Friday, 6 May 2016 01:41 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

Not that we have a brag thread. but hey. made me feel good.

frogbs, Friday, 6 May 2016 01:41 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

forgot to mention. only 1 loss in all 9 matches. I did pull a shit ton of games out of my ass though

frogbs, Friday, 6 May 2016 01:43 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

i just would have liked more info and facts. they spent very little time on the origin of the game. the inspiration behind it. and were just vague in general about how it got so big. an outside doc might have delved into the money aspect of it more too. how huge of a company it is. how much the pro players make. as rufus said: it didn't really tell him anything that he didn't already know. there is one scene where "The Innovator" is discussing strategy to a crowd and they cut him off after about five seconds. i would have actually liked to hear more from him. it was interesting and i don't even play.

similar actually to the pro video game doc i watched on netflix. those games that tombot likes to watch. they did the same kinda inspirational/generic sports profile thing with the top players but didn't go very deep.

x-post

scott seward, Friday, 6 May 2016 01:51 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

yeah the doc isn't well designed for an outsider while not really giving much to the insiders, so it felt kinda pointless. I don't think the guys who made it wanted to make an advertisement but their hands were tied and any interesting storyline probably woulda been 'negative' on some level. pro players don't make a lot of money and live pretty bleak lives. there is an interesting story there but not one that the wizards pr department is gonna fund.

iatee, Friday, 6 May 2016 02:14 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

I think they could have easily improved on it just by making it maybe 30 minutes longer. But then I'm perfectly content to watch endless hours of mtg videos day in and out, so perhaps I'm not the best judge.

Check Yr Scrobbles (Moodles), Friday, 6 May 2016 02:32 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

I just watched this and whilst I didn't think it was a great documentary, I still kind of loved watching it. I'm pretty much an outsider (though I've played enough in the past to know the basics) and feel compelled to start playing again immediately, but I am pretty impressionable so it's not a big statement. I really wish more of the actual gameplay had been foregrounded because you really didn't get a strong sense of the tension they were all talking about. And I'm a bit sad that the only woman in it got poached!

Where can I like, go and watch more games right now? And am I going to understand them?

It certainly is punk of the Church of England to think that way (tangenttangent), Sunday, 15 May 2016 15:35 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

https://www.twitch.tv/scglive runs and broadcasts large tournaments most weekends. you're likely not going to understand whats going on though other than at a high level of e.g. who's currently winning. this is the main issue that faces competitive MTG as a spectator 'sport'; there's no way for the commentators to describe everything on the board so you have to assume the viewers can identify a lot of the cards without assistance and know what they do.

a friend of mine was working on some software to identify cards on these broadcasts and provide a popup window with the full card image, which is the sort of thing that would help a ton if someone got it working well.

ciderpress, Sunday, 15 May 2016 15:57 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

also of course https://www.twitch.tv/magic broadcasts the official WotC-run tournaments but those are a bit less frequent

ciderpress, Sunday, 15 May 2016 15:59 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

the latter is going to have the events you would have seen in the documentary though (pro tour and grand prix)

ciderpress, Sunday, 15 May 2016 16:00 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Thank you! Does anyone here ever compete in the pro tour? I tried having a look at those streams, but yeah...I just have no idea what those cards are. A card ID popup would be so useful - hope your friend gets that working. There are some matches for beginners on YouTube that I think can satisfy my curiosity for now.

I have a ton of cards, but they're mostly quite old. Is it important for me to have new cards in my deck?

It certainly is punk of the Church of England to think that way (tangenttangent), Sunday, 15 May 2016 16:16 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

if you're just playing casually then use whatever cards you've got

for competitive play there's several different formats with different deck construction rules, the high-level breakdown is:
Standard - uses only cards from the past ~18 months worth of sets
Modern - uses only cards printed since 8th edition (essentially 2003 to present year) with a small ban list of cards that have proven too strong
Legacy - uses all cards, but with a small ban list of the most powerful cards
Vintage - uses all cards with no ban list but a 1-per-deck restriction on a few really powerful cards

ciderpress, Sunday, 15 May 2016 16:30 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

not sure if anyone here has played in the pro tour, it's not easy to qualify and you have to be really good to stay on the tour indefinitely like the folks in the documentary. i have a few friends who have played in 1 or 2 but didn't do well enough to continue

ciderpress, Sunday, 15 May 2016 16:35 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Thanks. Casually for now, but the prospect of tournaments is very appealing for some point in the future. I just need to find people to play against now... imago is refusing to play.

It certainly is punk of the Church of England to think that way (tangenttangent), Sunday, 15 May 2016 17:32 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

you can go here to get a sense of the popular competitive decks that are currently played in various formats:
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/

probably a good resource if you want details on the decks you see on mtg broadcasts

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Sunday, 15 May 2016 18:03 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I've played in two Pro Tours, but I'm not very good at Constructed formats and for the PT you need to be skilled at both. Testing a new format without a team or at least a regular playgroup is also quite difficult. Both times I didn't make it past day 1 because of my terrible Constructed deck. I agree that a newcomer would have a hard time learning from the stream. Probably best to play some with friends first to get a hang of the basics.

Vinnie, Monday, 16 May 2016 07:07 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

both Constructed and draft*

Vinnie, Monday, 16 May 2016 07:09 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I did watch a LoadingReadyRun stream where they had an excellent card ID popup thing. Whenever a player played a card, they put it in the middle of the table and it would get scanned and pop-up on stream. I hope they can introduce that on the PT. It didn't seem to slow the game too much.

Vinnie, Monday, 16 May 2016 07:11 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

pretty entertaining article on the history of Limited here:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/oral-history-limited-2016-05-09

frogbs, Monday, 16 May 2016 17:54 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Steve: My second Top 8 was also Rochester—the win in Los Angeles. My semifinal match with Terry Lau might be one of the only Top 8 matches to ever go to six games. I don't think anyone had ever drawn a game in the Top 8 before. That was the Mono-Black Befoul/Corrupt deck in the Top 8. It's probably the only time in Magic I've ever been threatened to be punched in the face. I was playing against Mike Long. I went first and played a Swamp. He played Pouncing Jaguar. I went Swamp, Dark Ritual, Befoul his Forest so he couldn't pay the echo and would lose the Jaguar too. He tried to put his Pouncing Jaguar in the graveyard and not his Forest. "Nope," I said and pointed to his Forest. Later he ripped a Forest and played his Acridian. I played my fourth Swamp and Befouled the only green source he had to pay the echo with.

This I've had happen to me and yeah it is probably the most frustrating thing that can happen in Limited

Saga was so poorly designed, in retrospect

frogbs, Monday, 16 May 2016 18:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

yeah it took them a while to go from 'we're now thinking about limited play when making sets' (mirage) to 'this is actually fun to play limited with' (invasion) and then it's not for another several years after that that you get the first limited format that resembles their current design approach (champions of kamigawa)

ciderpress, Monday, 16 May 2016 20:55 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Did y'all watch the talk Mark Rosewater gave at GDC? Pretty great talk about the lessons R&D has learned designing Magic, though maybe not much new if you've been reading his column over the years. I think Echo is a more interesting mechanic than a fun one (it's kind of a pain, really), and he talks about how mechanics should be fun rather than interesting. His example was how in Odyssey it was advantageous to dump your hand for Threshold, which I agree was not very fun

Vinnie, Tuesday, 17 May 2016 03:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

nyc people: are there any good places to FNM in manhattan these days?

ciderpress, Thursday, 19 May 2016 14:02 (1 week ago) Permalink

montasy comics is okay. are you in town?

iatee, Friday, 20 May 2016 16:05 (1 week ago) Permalink

no, was asking for a friend who just moved down there and is trying to find the spot with the most competent players

ciderpress, Friday, 20 May 2016 16:10 (1 week ago) Permalink

okay here's the scene:

montasy (midtown) - decent standard/draft fnm, nice people, competitiveness depends on who you end up playing but your average fnm draft pod and standard fnm is about 50% casuals 50% srs players. also has legacy/modern nights which are roughly the same casual/srs ratios. the playerbase is generally pretty friendly but the store is poorly run and just coasts off being the only real option in midtown.

uncommons (village) - also has fnm and some other stuff, generally runs more casual than montasy

geekery (queens) - my favorite store, I'm friends w/ the people who run it and has pretty competitive modern/legacy scene, decent drafts at fnm. doesn't have a standard scene.

20s (brooklyn) - still runs some magic stuff but it's spotty. I know the run fnms at least, I don't know who shows up. it was more competitive in general than the other stores when they were more magic focused.

king's games (brooklyn) - I have never actually been here, it is very far in brooklyn and everyone hates it

nebulous (LES) - kinda out of the way and not a reliable choice for events, but they have the occasional gpt etc.

I run a google group w/ a lot of fairly competitive friends and we have lots of social+magic get togethers if he's interested in meeting people

iatee, Friday, 20 May 2016 16:53 (1 week ago) Permalink

thanks, appreciate it

ciderpress, Friday, 20 May 2016 16:56 (1 week ago) Permalink

art on the EMA animate dead is a real treat. actually some real nice new art in general in what's been spoiled so far

Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 24 May 2016 17:06 (1 week ago) Permalink

Too bad they can't update the ugliness of how the card works as well

Vinnie, Tuesday, 24 May 2016 17:08 (1 week ago) Permalink

I mean, it works intuitively, but it's such a shame that the card is still so wordy and hard to parse after all these years

Vinnie, Tuesday, 24 May 2016 17:12 (1 week ago) Permalink

yeah "enchant dead creature" is just something that doesn't work within the rules. and yes it sucks because I really like that effect - it's powerful but there's an extra way of killing it. Makeshift Mannequin I liked because it played around in that space.

frogbs, Tuesday, 24 May 2016 17:45 (1 week ago) Permalink

nice set

ciderpress, Friday, 27 May 2016 16:49 (5 days ago) Permalink

i am very disappointed that they commissioned new art for Roots though, the original is a masterpiece

ciderpress, Friday, 27 May 2016 16:49 (5 days ago) Permalink

boooo @ the new Mother of Runes art. everything's gotta be sexy these days

serious lol at Prodigal Sorcerer though

frogbs, Friday, 27 May 2016 16:51 (5 days ago) Permalink

pauper gains elite vanguard and desperate ravings, also nimble mongoose though idk if that will be relevant

ciderpress, Friday, 27 May 2016 16:54 (5 days ago) Permalink

thank god they made Impervious Perfect a rare, I got flashbacks of losing to that repeatedly

frogbs, Friday, 27 May 2016 16:55 (5 days ago) Permalink

vma is probably my favorite draft format of all time so im v excited for this, although i doubt ill play any of it irl

( ^_^) (Lamp), Friday, 27 May 2016 19:04 (5 days ago) Permalink

This set looks so great - I love the cube feel, like I read the spoiler and it's hard to construct a pack where I wouldn't excited about like a 5th pick common.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Friday, 27 May 2016 19:25 (5 days ago) Permalink

Red looks like an intimidatingly effective Fun Police though, hope that's not the case to an extent where self-indulgence and winning end up strongly polarised.

Gravel Puzzleworth, Friday, 27 May 2016 19:30 (5 days ago) Permalink

also can we talk abt how sick it is that strange fbook dudes keep using magic card art for their macros?

https://twitter.com/dasharez0ne/status/735663199941361664

( ^_^) (Lamp), Friday, 27 May 2016 19:48 (5 days ago) Permalink

lol im a fan of that account

ciderpress, Friday, 27 May 2016 19:51 (5 days ago) Permalink


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