Magic: The Gathering C/D

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There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (11 years ago) Permalink

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (11 years ago) Permalink

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (11 years ago) Permalink

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (11 years ago) Permalink

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (11 years ago) Permalink

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (11 years ago) Permalink

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (11 years ago) Permalink

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (11 years ago) Permalink

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (11 years ago) Permalink

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (11 years ago) Permalink

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (11 years ago) Permalink

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (11 years ago) Permalink

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (11 years ago) Permalink

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (11 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (6 years ago) Permalink

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (6 years ago) Permalink

ok http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/ProjectEBAY/MagicCards.html these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (6 years ago) Permalink

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (6 years ago) Permalink

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (6 years ago) Permalink

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (6 years ago) Permalink

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

blue + black deck, my sengir vampires and royal assassins were so so gangster.

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

i had two revised royal assassins

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

maybe more, hell if i remember

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

at my 10th bday party i beat the rich kid in magic even tho i had no allowance, i had birthday money and was a HUSTLER with trades

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

i think sometimes i threw in some green too, but only if u could throw all mana down first turn and i would use it solely for my force of nature

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

8/8

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (6 years ago) Permalink

i have a shivan dragon signed by the lady what painted it ;_;

Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

I feel like that + Master of the Feast + Notion Thief could make some kind of dinger

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Monday, 28 July 2014 20:35 (5 days ago) Permalink

master and notion don't actually work together

iatee, Monday, 28 July 2014 20:36 (5 days ago) Permalink

are you sure? that upkeep draw seems to fit the "except the first one he or she draws in each of his or her draw steps" clause

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Monday, 28 July 2014 20:38 (5 days ago) Permalink

no you're right, I was confusing it with spirit of labyrinth's effect

iatee, Monday, 28 July 2014 20:39 (5 days ago) Permalink

i am slowly coming to hate this draft format. i did a draft tonight at my lgs drafted a reasonable if not overpowered u/b deck and went 2/2. i lost to generator servant into scuttling doom engine and then to turn one profane memento into turn two ensoul artifact. which is just kinda bad beat crybabying but i feel like i keep losing to stuff like this, or generally not good decks, or just like weird my cards not matching-up at all games. i guess my point is that i rarely feel like i am in the games im losing and often the opposite seems to be true for games i am winning. and i know im not doing a good job drafting the format partly because i have 0 mtgo practice thanks to v4 but idk why i am having such a hard time getting the hang of a core set format or why this format feels just really unfun

dude (Lamp), Friday, 1 August 2014 03:24 (Yesterday) Permalink

I like it a lot but I have been winning a lot

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 03:28 (Yesterday) Permalink

ub seems like a bad time in this format

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 03:28 (Yesterday) Permalink

there's definitely more room for blowout draws / decks in m15 than there was in m14, if white tokens is open esp, there are just a lot of cards that I like playing with that just feel like well-designed limited cards that are fun to play with (forge devil, illusory angel, selfless cathar, inferno fist)

cone of flame is dumb tho, wish it weren't in the set

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 03:36 (Yesterday) Permalink

my overall record is 29-12 so i am not actually doing as badly as i had thought but i feel like i am rarely in the games i am losing, so losing is more irritating if that makes sense? i dont have hard evidence for this but i feel like this format is more draw dependent than is typical, like there are just a lot of reasonable cards that don't interact at all with other reasonable cards, so a higher % of games are non-interactive.

like i said, this is early impression still and could simply be some combination of variance, the way/type of decks i am drafting or some other factor i am missing but this format feels very low skill rn

dude (Lamp), Friday, 1 August 2014 03:45 (Yesterday) Permalink

i haven't drafted m15 much yet, will hit the 8-4s hard when i get back from my vacation next weekend, but my early impressions are that triplicate spirits is a stupid common and that the white and red 3-power 2-drops can get you a bunch of free tempo wins

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 04:56 (Yesterday) Permalink

this is my first core set as i was otherwise engaged during m14. it seems quite different - with THS and RTR blocks it was made kind of obvious what you were 'supposed' to be doing, whereas this feels more like "here's a bunch of cards, figure something out". maybe it is just more subtle and passing me by right now. i played a couple of prerelease sealed and half a dozen drafts since then. almost all of my decks have ended up being red based aggro or white based convoke. i don't know if it is just well supplied as an archetype or if people aren't interested but the good convoke payoff cards always seems to be available. one other difference is that bombs seem super bomby. i had a hell of a Rw deck for the first sealed i played, with as i posted at the time chandra (and a nissa i couldn't play), and i tore through the first 3 matches and in the final the other dude landed the red soul on time both games and that was it. the white soul and doom engine have been p disgusting against me as well. my 2nd sealed i opened a garruk and played a pretty marginal BG to 2-2, just for the chance to play the card, and of course even thru 4 rounds of sealed i never cast him once.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 1 August 2014 12:19 (Yesterday) Permalink

I've only done 3 events but thus far it seems like there are a lot more playable one-toughness creatures than normal, so stuff like Forge Devil and Crippling Blight are quite good. IMO it seems way more fun than M14, which way too often devolved into topdecking wars and was unbalanced colorwise. I agree that there is a lot more degenerate stuff available in this format (like Illusory Angel or Ensoul Artifact), not necessarily a bad thing, but it does feel like there's not enough decent removal to temper this stuff. I too have lost to the white Soul which is such an insanely opressive card, in fact it seems like there are a lot more bomb rares (and uncommons!) in this set than normal. It's way faster than M14 which is a plus but I can definitely see why it feels uninteractive to you (especially considering the high amount of evasion in the set)

Kinda considering maindecking Bronze Sable next time, it stops both the intimidate common dudes and gives the 2U 2/3 dude flying

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Friday, 1 August 2014 13:16 (Yesterday) Permalink

i haven't drafted m15 much yet, will hit the 8-4s hard when i get back from my vacation next weekend, but my early impressions are that triplicate spirits is a stupid common and that the white and red 3-power 2-drops can get you a bunch of free tempo wins

haha yes this is the story of me playing m15 so far

oppressive rays is really good in this format

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 13:21 (Yesterday) Permalink

and bronze sable is like a solid mid-pack pick

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 13:22 (Yesterday) Permalink

ime so far, with the way white decks shape up in particular, the all creatures +2/+1 white get first strike is a nutty bomb

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 1 August 2014 13:40 (Yesterday) Permalink

yep, either blowout combat trick or out of nowhere topdeck win

you can't really play around it very well either, if I don't block they'll do 12 damage, if I do I lose all my creatures

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 13:42 (Yesterday) Permalink

I wound up losing one in a real painful way due to Avarice Amulet - I misplayed hard, thinking Encrust was Claustrophobia, and didn't have enough mana to re-equip it to my Hexproof dude, so he winds up killing my guy and taking control of the Amulet, then putting it on the Razorfoot Griffin and killing me slowly with it. I look at the card again and it says "designed by Penny Arcade", great one more reason to hate those fuckin' guys

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Friday, 1 August 2014 14:06 (Yesterday) Permalink

I like how many can-be-good-in-right-deck artifacts/equipment there is in the set, feel like often they design those things to either be playable or totally unplayable, but the artifacts matter theme makes most of them okay in the right deck.

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 14:13 (Yesterday) Permalink

i got torn up by a guy with the red tap to do damage enchantment on a typhoid rats, with 2 forge devils in my library somewhere. that card seems very good in general.

also, i played against a guy with spectra ward and twice he put it on a 2/2 and ran it into my will-forged golem. the 2nd time i was sure he had a trick, because how could you do that twice, but i needed to block regardless. i like to imagine he put in a compensation claim before finally realizing what he had done.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 1 August 2014 14:23 (Yesterday) Permalink

ha

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 14:26 (Yesterday) Permalink

we were doing side drafts/teamdrafts at the GP and one of my friends just kept taking all the undergrowth scavengers and satyr wayfinders every draft and crushing people with 4-mana 6/6s

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 14:34 (Yesterday) Permalink

yeah that + the 3/1 black dude that mills you 3 feels like a decent strategy. nobody seems to take the Scavenger.

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Friday, 1 August 2014 14:39 (Yesterday) Permalink

have thought about that deck, and having a primadox or the 3/3 that makes you return to hand to 'refresh' an early scavenger if needed.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 1 August 2014 14:43 (Yesterday) Permalink

i dont like primadox as much in this set without elvish visionary, recurring a 4-drop is a lot more of a cost for drawing cards than recurring a 2-drop

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 15:05 (Yesterday) Permalink

there are other targets too, the +1/+1 counter dude, the frost cat, forge devil etc

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 15:08 (Yesterday) Permalink

I just realized that Underground Scavenger is basically just a dumb Lhurgoyf

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Friday, 1 August 2014 15:32 (Yesterday) Permalink

by the way, I'm still incredibly peeved by the new client, it seems like every time I play it I discover a new, major design flaw; nothing showstopping (though having to play through a pop-up window of my previous opponent's "revealed hand" was pretty bad), but a lot to make you wonder just how little the client was beta tested

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Friday, 1 August 2014 16:28 (Yesterday) Permalink

the client was beta tested plenty, i've been a beta tester for the past 2 years

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 18:12 (Yesterday) Permalink

still refuses to download on my computer, through googling I've found others w/ the same problem

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 18:19 (Yesterday) Permalink

and as bad as this is, the new wizards website is just...

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 18:20 (Yesterday) Permalink

likely surely they've seen the traffic just crater

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 18:21 (Yesterday) Permalink

i think the new website actually looks fine aesthetically, its just buggy and not actually intuitive to use or find anything

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 18:56 (Yesterday) Permalink

like its clearly an out-of-the-box CMS that hasn't been tailored to their content or use cases at all

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 18:57 (Yesterday) Permalink

who cares how it looks if people will actually completely stop visiting because it's too hard to find anything

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 18:58 (Yesterday) Permalink

like this kinda thing should result in people fired

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 19:00 (Yesterday) Permalink

it seems like they tried so hard to keep it simple that they accidentally made it really really complicated

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 1 August 2014 19:03 (Yesterday) Permalink

someone high up heard that mobile was the future and said "our site needs to look good on an ipad, do whatever it takes!"

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 19:05 (Yesterday) Permalink

wotc has never been very good at software but as of late they seem to be falling even further behind the curve, in addition to a sudden strange insistence at doing everything in-house with their underpaid devs - it seems pretty clear to me at this point that they either don't have money or someone at the top doesn't think any of this stuff is important

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 19:11 (Yesterday) Permalink

even duels, their one remaining successful software venture, seems to have crashed and burned this year, i haven't played it but saw bad reviews and negative feedback across the board

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 19:13 (Yesterday) Permalink

its troubling that a game that's claimed to have huge sales growth for the past 4 years is unable to reinvest any of those profits into the game but that seems to be what's going on

ciderpress, Friday, 1 August 2014 19:15 (Yesterday) Permalink

i impulse bought the new dotp the day it came out and it is super thin. i wondered if maybe they are going to add in some of the missing features and modes as dlc. but tbf, i did get something like the going rate for the amount of mtg entertainment 15 bucks buys!

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 1 August 2014 19:17 (Yesterday) Permalink

I realize how tough it is to write a client for such a complex game - those who gripe about MTGO by pointing out that Hearthstone or SolForge have much better interfaces seem to be missing just how wide a lattitude of things have to be given in Magic (especially considering that it has to support like 10 years worth of cards that weren't designed with the rules being like they are now) - but what bothers me is just the easy design stuff, like how there's so much blankspace on the battlefield now and yet the colorless mana symbols are basically unreadable on a 19" monitor, or how hopeless it is to get the chat or preview panes to stay anywhere, like it's the kind of stuff you'd think would get immediately pointed out during testing. At least the life total isn't a Font Size 7 number off in the corner anymore.

Maggie killed Quagmire (collest baby ever) (frogbs), Friday, 1 August 2014 19:22 (Yesterday) Permalink

the website has no similar excuses - a basic site where you can find and read articles w/ text and photos shouldn't take a company w/ the best programmers in seattle or w/e, it should be something any competent company can get done in 2014

iatee, Friday, 1 August 2014 19:30 (Yesterday) Permalink


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