Magic: The Gathering C/D

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There was a pretty funny article in Salon a couple years ago about the early days at Wizards of the Coast, which apparently resembled a geek version of Fellini's Satiricon, before the company went and sold out to THE MAN.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 07:34 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

ok here goes.

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules. you needn't bother playing if there are no limits placed on the composition of the deck. wizards of the coast probably still publishes its "restricted/banned" card list as well. check it out.

when i was about 15 to 16 i played in magic tournaments EVERY sunday, and played recreationally with friends most evenings. yes, you could say that it was a very signifigant part of that time in my very sad teenaged life. at one point in the remote northern alberta town of 35,000 i grew up in there were three comic shops that all pushed magic quite heavily and at least a couple more places where the cards were available. some people took it VERY seriously.

i won't argue that magic is a tremendous cash sucker, and ultimately it taught me nothing about anything (there is little about the game that transfers to other pursuits) but there is a tremendous beauty to the inner workings of the game. it's not just about how much money you spend on it. in tournament settings, i was able to consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs (engineers, systems analysts) simply by spending a lot of time evaluating how the cards in my deck worked together. quite often the answer is not an "expensive" card but four cheap, nasty ones.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

oh and just for the record i don't play anymore and haven't touched a card in about four years.

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 18:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

if you're going to play magic, you MUST play by tournament rules.

Why? I mean, in a tournament of course you do, but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 23:52 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Tournament rules are for people who actually know all the instant-kill power card combinations. And tournament rules are constantly changing because people figure out new ones.

fletrejet, Thursday, 23 January 2003 00:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

but what about those of us who are, err, "casual players" as it were and just want a nice game to waste some time with as opposed to a weapon to "consistently trounce educated adult men with high-paying jobs"?

dude i was like fifteen ...

fields of salmon (fieldsofsalmon), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:29 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I sold all my cards to some dork for like $20.
I still sometime would like to play, but alas; it is too expensive.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 23 January 2003 05:51 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

dude i was like fifteen ...

Haha, maybe that was a bit too nasty on my part, but still- why not play any way you bloody please (or was that "You MUST..." comment just the way you saw it when you were 15?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 23 January 2003 11:32 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

If we judge a game by its players, and I judge this by the few people I've ever met or seen who play it, it's as dud as it comes. (This is not meant to comment on the people here, none of whom I have met.)

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 23 January 2003 18:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I used to play... PROFESSIONALLY. How sad is that? You can make good money at it to be honest. The saddest thing most times are people who play it. It's 90-95% male, they're all super homophobes too. I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition.. and to get pictures of me in em in Magic publications (yes, there are a few). I enjoyed the game and the rules, and I met some good people along the way. The best part about Magic players is that they are willing to play almost anything.. so once you get fed up with Magic (which everyone does), they will try any other activity or game (Set, Settlers of Cataan), and jump on it.

I'm going to be branded a geek now.. aren't I?

Christopher (Christopher), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

This is an internet message board Christopher = we are all geeks.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 3 February 2003 22:44 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

it's fun, if you have money to waste and friends that don't take it seriously.

webber (webber), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 00:07 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I used to wear t-shirts that implied I was gay just to mess with the competition..

Let's count the ways we could parse that sentence, hmm?

Chris P (Chris P), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 01:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Let's make that a little clearer... heh.

A lot of Magic players are homophobic (in my experience) and in order to throw them off of their game, I would wear a shirt that symbolized gay pride.

What's really scary is that I'm thinking about playing in a sealed deck PTQ in a couple of weeks just to see if I can still compete after not playing for years.

Christopher (Christopher), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
Who up in this bitch fancies a game of memory M:TG*? I'm bored.

* (the one where you start with no cards in your card, draw one of your choice per turn, and no card can be played twice? It's kinda fun...)

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 18 April 2004 14:34 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I used to play a lot around 14-16 and did pretty good, but when I think
of all the money I spent on cards that just sit in boxes up in my closet
I get all teary-eyed. Those should be records sitting idle, not cards!

stephen morris (stephen morris), Sunday, 18 April 2004 16:35 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Dud as hell. When I was 12 or 13 or so I went with my friend (who was into Magic cards at the time) to a Magic the Gathering "tournament" being held at the local Barnes & Noble. While my friend was playing Magic with someone, I walked around watching the others in attendance. At one table this guy playing said something like "I'm playing the Wall of Flame card". This other guy at the table said, "I'm gonna play the Wall of Pubic Hair card, hehehehhehe" in this horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voice. That was when I realized that there were people far nerdier than I could ever be.

latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 18 April 2004 17:24 (twelve years ago) Permalink

three months pass...
The game itself = Classic: it will be around for years to come, probably our nerdier kids will be into it or some incarnation of it.

The "90-95% super homophobe" players mentioned above = DUD. If I was rich (xpost it's expensive xpost) I'd probably play Magic Online, and not have to see the fat guys with "horribly nasal and stereotypically nerdy voices" that unfortunately define the game.

Richard K (Richard K), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 03:55 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I can't believe I never posted to this thread. I probably spent twenty bucks on it total, maybe thirty. It was one summer, a fun thing, a moment in time, a nice little cultural artifact.

teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 3 August 2004 04:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

three years pass...

i've been having a lot of "fun" playing with the old cards I rescued from my mom's house. i refuse to spend another cent on the game, however.

ian, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

a couple years ago i went to a card & comix shop and built a decent blue-white deck for like $4.00, but all the newer card editions just had all these new retarded esoteric abilities that i had no idea about

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:16 (nine years ago) Permalink

also, the art was all these, like, cyber dragons and BULLSHIT

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:21 (nine years ago) Permalink

We should start an ILG thread where we play against each other using SCANNERS.

nickalicious, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

i only played magic for the first time a few weeks ago, how weird is that? i was intimidated by the kids who played it in high school, but it's not half as complicated as i thought.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:50 (nine years ago) Permalink

you should have been more intimidated by their allowances

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:56 (nine years ago) Permalink

and/or dedication to blowing every dollar earned at the drive-thru window sunday 5am-1:30pm on crazy junk instead of like cigarettes and cds

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

that is correct i am calling you bustas out

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 20:57 (nine years ago) Permalink

what are you talking about, i pinched a franklin from my dad's wallet to buy a mox jet

elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:01 (nine years ago) Permalink

haha, i think i was most intimidated by their cliquish aspie superiority complexes.

i think it's really fun now though.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:03 (nine years ago) Permalink

ok http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/ProjectEBAY/MagicCards.html these prices are so retarded omg

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

people should all be blown up

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:06 (nine years ago) Permalink

in my middle school the biggest fight i got into was between pog players and m:tg players

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

i was obviously a magic player

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:09 (nine years ago) Permalink

green & white deck, in case anyone is wondering

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

omg pog

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:12 (nine years ago) Permalink

if i remember those years correctly i was more worried about the shame my seminoles starter jacket would bring me after danny wuerrfle's gators pounced on them in the orange bowl than anything having to do with those fucking things

deeznuts, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:14 (nine years ago) Permalink

I used to play magic back in the mid-nineties, I still have a hundreds and hundreds of those cards in some box around here. I never paid much for them though, because I stole most of them from bookstores. I wonder if that stuff is worth something these days, the oldest cards I have are from Revised Edition or whatever it was called.

Tuomas, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:24 (nine years ago) Permalink

god, my nerd days were spent playing Avalon Hill wargames. and banging chicks of course

brownie, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:26 (nine years ago) Permalink

my best nerd days are ahead of me still.

bell_labs, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:27 (nine years ago) Permalink

mine did not look quite as good as this one but I got pretty good

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

i had a revised shivan dragon worth $50

max, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

and my color selections were more noise

El Tomboto, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 21:38 (nine years ago) Permalink

haha shivan dragon. back in 1995 my friend's proudest accomplishment was owning 4 shivan dragons. I wonder if those cards are worth anything today.

burt_stanton, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:04 (nine years ago) Permalink

blue + black deck, my sengir vampires and royal assassins were so so gangster.

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

i had two revised royal assassins

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:10 (nine years ago) Permalink

maybe more, hell if i remember

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:11 (nine years ago) Permalink

at my 10th bday party i beat the rich kid in magic even tho i had no allowance, i had birthday money and was a HUSTLER with trades

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:12 (nine years ago) Permalink

i think sometimes i threw in some green too, but only if u could throw all mana down first turn and i would use it solely for my force of nature

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

8/8

deej, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:18 (nine years ago) Permalink

i have a shivan dragon signed by the lady what painted it ;_;

Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 22:25 (nine years ago) Permalink

oh lol. i knew something didn't add up. that would be ridiculous.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 6 January 2017 17:53 (two weeks ago) Permalink

red and black look like the best colors to me on first pass. the red common 2-drop is insane and could end up being a higher pick than the (quite good) removal spells since it's the only one and thus an important bottleneck.

ciderpress, Friday, 6 January 2017 17:57 (two weeks ago) Permalink

omg @ saheeli rai + felidar guardian

standard splinter twin is back baby

ciderpress, Friday, 6 January 2017 18:08 (two weeks ago) Permalink

lol amazing

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 6 January 2017 18:11 (two weeks ago) Permalink

that is a legitimately good combo for standard, theres tutors for both halves and she even helps find the felidar

ciderpress, Friday, 6 January 2017 18:18 (two weeks ago) Permalink

haha i got as far as felidar guardian in the card image gallery and was like ....

( ^_^) (Lamp), Friday, 6 January 2017 18:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

its also on-color with reflector mage which gets re-triggered by both halves of the combo to buy you forever time

ciderpress, Friday, 6 January 2017 18:25 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i like how it's doable in limited this time too

ciderpress, Friday, 6 January 2017 18:31 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yeah. will probably work on this for standard & see if i can make it competitive. surprised by the # of strong non-creature effects in aether revolt. was already obv excited to test for prague/dublin but am really hopefully this limited/std ends up being interesting

( ^_^) (Lamp), Friday, 6 January 2017 18:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

looks like some strong cards for green aggro in constructed. no idea how easy it will be to get revolt early in standard, presumably not that trivial?

was confused at first by the junky looking do-nothing uncommon artifact that brings along a servo for 2 generic but i guess it's there for turbo improvise. still, essentially strictly worse than the white puzzleknot. improvise makes servo expedition seem less lame too i guess.

a few ways to make vehicles creatures outside of crewing. most pretty ropey admittedly but might force reevaluation of some of the huge garbage vehicles out of KLD.

Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 6 January 2017 18:38 (two weeks ago) Permalink

you can make the 1 mana 7/11 vehicle into a 10/11 first strike on turn 3 with the red aura. seems pretty janky outside of limited though

ciderpress, Friday, 6 January 2017 18:52 (two weeks ago) Permalink

revolt seems kinda tricky to turn on in standard, like that G deathtouch guy is pretty strictly a plant for modern zoo type decks

ciderpress, Friday, 6 January 2017 18:58 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Greenwheel Liberator seems like it could see Modern play too. it's better than Goyf in the early turns

I thought I'd spec on Saheeli but I'm too late. it's already up to around 8 tix

Vinnie, Saturday, 7 January 2017 09:36 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yeah way too late, it's spiked pretty hard. i'm trying to identify other new interactions that could be good in standard but there's nothing anywhere near as in-your-face as that one

ciderpress, Saturday, 7 January 2017 17:30 (two weeks ago) Permalink

So...

Announcement Date: January 9, 2017

Effective Date: January 20, 2017

Magic Online Effective Date: January 11, 2017

Standard:

Emrakul, the Promised End is banned.

Smuggler's Copter is banned.

Reflector Mage is banned.

Modern:

Gitaxian Probe is banned.

Golgari Grave-Troll is banned.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 9 January 2017 19:30 (one week ago) Permalink

Definitely have mixed feelings about these. Emrakul was a pain to play against, and I'm glad I sold every copy I opened. Still think Marvel would have made more sense to ban instead. I'm bummed about Copter as I've played a bunch of different decks since Kaladesh and all of them had Copter. Of course, that's probably exactly why it got banned. Don't really know why they banned Mage, except there may be some new combo that they are preemptively stopping. Not really sure that banning Gitaxian Probe will make a huge difference. I get Golgari Grave-Troll, Dredge is pretty ridiculous right now.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 9 January 2017 19:35 (one week ago) Permalink

ok so I have like 6 Copters on MTGO and don't play constructed...should I sell ASAP while they're still legal for a bit or are they worth somehow holding on to? sucks that the one money rare (non-mythic) got nerfed.

frogbs, Monday, 9 January 2017 19:49 (one week ago) Permalink

They're already pretty much worthless since it goes into effect in 2 days on mtgo, take your ticket each or whatever if you can get it

ciderpress, Monday, 9 January 2017 21:25 (one week ago) Permalink

Probably a lot of ink spilled over this already, all I'll say is that historically standard bannings only happen when there's a significant downturn in tournament attendance at the local level. It's not just about power level of cards, it's about optics and getting people reinterested in a format they didn't want to play

ciderpress, Monday, 9 January 2017 21:36 (one week ago) Permalink

it seems like they've really been clutching at straws regarding Standard FNM attendance. First the change to rotation, then Saturday Showdown, and now this. Hopefully it's working. Standard attendance in Austin has improved over the Origins - Oath period, but it still could be better. I'm seeing Modern pull in more people than Standard at some shops, and now a bunch of Frontier events are popping up.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 9 January 2017 21:46 (one week ago) Permalink

i still think a good standard season and/or good modern season might just kill all momentum that frontier has, it feels like such a reactionary format

ciderpress, Monday, 9 January 2017 21:48 (one week ago) Permalink

also i suspect if it ever became official they'd start it at origins rather than m15 since having yet another format's accessibility bottlenecked by fetchlands is not ideal

ciderpress, Monday, 9 January 2017 21:52 (one week ago) Permalink

it's true that it may not last or that wizards may support something similar but slightly different. For now though, I'm sleeving up a frontier deck to run on Wednesday night and it has Smuggler's Copter and Reflector Mage!

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 9 January 2017 22:10 (one week ago) Permalink

I like the Probe ban, it's similar to the Mental Misstep ban. It's a card that gets chucked into too many decks, and a small reason why Modern can feel repetitive. It's not busted but I think overall Modern will be more fun without it

Vinnie, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 01:02 (one week ago) Permalink

I'm pretty shocked at the Standard bans though. Like y'all said, attendance must have been way down - this is practically a brand new Standard format now

Vinnie, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 01:04 (one week ago) Permalink

Wonder if this means the 3/5 crew 1 dude with occasional lifelink is gonna get played. Seems nearly as good!

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 14:28 (one week ago) Permalink

it's pretty different, more of a midrange card, but should get played

ciderpress, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 14:31 (one week ago) Permalink

renegade rallier is interesting in modern zoo with the cheap landfall guys

ciderpress, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 14:58 (one week ago) Permalink

t1 steppe lynx / t2 fetch, geopede / t3 fetch, rallier is lethal. you even have an extra mana on t3 to path or bolt a blocker

ciderpress, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 15:01 (one week ago) Permalink

starting to think printing fetches was not exactly a great decision

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 15:04 (one week ago) Permalink

got a favorable impression of this set from the prerelease, though my pool was absolute garbage and i only won matches because i was playing vs new players. feels almost oldschool to have actual good removal at common at this point.

ciderpress, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 20:21 (five days ago) Permalink

black and/or red felt like the strongest colors to me, blue is bad but in a more fun way than usual

ciderpress, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 20:26 (five days ago) Permalink

some idle comments on colors

white - dawnfeather eagle is an unusually good finisher for a common, feels like it got a lot of white's power budget which is awkward since you can't play many
blue - blue only has 1 decent on-curve creature at common (the drake) and a ton of nonsense. you're relying a lot on cheap artifact dudes and will probably have to play off-color automatons in blue decks. good blue decks are going to look like total piles just like the bad ones and it'll take some nuance to figure out which is which.
black - we've had a bunch of crummy -x/-x commons lately but i think cruel finality does enough here to elevate it to a higher pick than things like die young or throttle were
red - red commons are just all really good for the format. shock is better here than 4 mana 4 damage which is better than aether chaser and sweatworks brawler, but all 4 of those look better than any blue common and also probably any white common that isn't the pacifism
green - none of the beaters are efficient enough to be higher picks than the mana guy, and they're interchangeable enough that prey upon probably comes in 2nd as well. peema outrider and thriving rhino outsize AER creatures really hard so green drafters get rewarded nicely in pack 3
artifacts - renegade map is the card that makes revolt a strong mechanic rather than a marginal one, while also working well with improvise. this kind of makes it the equivalent of both prophetic prism and renegade freighter at the same time in this set and i wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a consensus high pick common

ciderpress, Tuesday, 17 January 2017 20:56 (five days ago) Permalink

so frontier seems to be really picking up in Austin, TX. A bunch of stores are running events, some doing 2 a week. I took down the Wednesday night frontier event at my LGS two weeks in a row with a pretty sweet Jeskai Spirits deck. The crowd that's showing up on Wednesday nights is bigger than they've been getting for FNM, although maybe that will slow down once Aether Revolt is released. Everyone seems very enthusiastic, in part because the general quality of decks and level of play seems to be higher than with standard. Another local store is running a frontier 1K in a couple weeks, should be fun.

My only concern is going to be deciding how I split up my time going forward. I would like to continue with frontier and standard and maybe draft here and there. Also working on building Naya Burn for Modern. Don't know how I'm going to find the time to play all these formats though.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Thursday, 19 January 2017 14:43 (three days ago) Permalink

Frontier reminds me of when Modern was first announced and they threw it up on MTGO before any major events and people were playing all sorts of wild & diverse decks, and then once PTs and GPs started up it turned out most of those decks weren't actually good. I think if Frontier ever comes under any scrutiny as a competitive format they'll have to ban Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time since I'm certain those cards are still overpowered even in a smaller/newer format than Modern. Possibly Collected Company as well.

ciderpress, Thursday, 19 January 2017 15:30 (three days ago) Permalink

the format is nowhere near solved and throwing in Aether Revolt will bring some pretty big changes. I can see wizards supporting a similar format with some tweaks as you mentioned. I can say that Torrential Gearhulk into Dig is pretty disgusting. The Ensoul Artifact deck is pretty popular right now and will get more powerful with the new set. That all said, no one seems to have a credible plan against the deck I've been running, but I'm sure that will change eventually.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Thursday, 19 January 2017 15:35 (three days ago) Permalink

yeah i'm just saying i find it funny that people are touting the diversity of the format as a draw when it hasn't been stress tested by the best players/deckbuilders yet. i was excited about the Rage Forger deck that was doing decently in MTGO events when Modern first started, and then it turned out the format was more about hardcasting Emrakul on turn 4

ciderpress, Thursday, 19 January 2017 15:39 (three days ago) Permalink

in the near term, the format is going to see some consolidation as people figure out what's good and what isn't. In the longer term, it will certainly get more diverse as more cards enter the pool.

Right now I think people are overvaluing the Khans block cards and strategies and not using enough powerful cards from more recent sets. A deck like Abzan just feels painfully slow to me.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Thursday, 19 January 2017 17:47 (three days ago) Permalink

http://i.imgur.com/OuhiIVs.jpg

Finally got to live the dream before KLD draft season is over

Hadn't considered before what having all three modules out did but it is pretty lol when you get it going

frogbs, Friday, 20 January 2017 03:03 (two days ago) Permalink

it's basically just 1 mana for a 2/2 and an energy right?

ciderpress, Friday, 20 January 2017 04:14 (two days ago) Permalink

so how likely is it that Saheeli or Guardian will be banned following the PT? Are we now living in a world in which every new set will bring about an overpowered deck that dominates for a few weeks and then faces a ban? I'm looking forward to wild swings between playing in an un-fun environment and seeing massive destruction of card value. Surely that will bring more people to Standard!

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 21 January 2017 17:18 (yesterday) Permalink

no one knows yet. week 1 events are not indicative of where the format will end up. standard bans are very rare and i don't expect them to happen more often going forward just because they're increasing the cadence of the announcement. historically they've happened about once every 5 years.

ciderpress, Saturday, 21 January 2017 17:47 (yesterday) Permalink

that is all true, but I still need to keep the possibility of a banning in the back of my mind as I move forward. The Saheeli combo fits neatly into the U/W decks that I've been playing. Despite Saheeli's elevated cost, I wouldn't normally consider it completely unreasonable to go in that direction. But faced with the prospect of losing $100+ in card value in the near future, it becomes much less attractive.

Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 21 January 2017 18:22 (yesterday) Permalink


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