2008 Primaries Thread

jergins speaks truth

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004171983_webobama08m.html

Officials closed the entrances to KeyArena at about 11 this morning, turning away thousands who had gathered to hear Barack Obama speak at noon.

Doors were locked after KeyArena reached its capacity of 20,000, officials said. Those who made it inside were not allowed to leave because police wanted to keep those outside from forcing themselves in. People outside were banging on doors and windows of the arena, as police were trying to maintain peace.

Seattle police sent officers outside into the crowd to physically push people away from the doors so that no one would get crushed or trampled.

William Spiritdancer, of Seattle's Central District, pulled his four children — ages 7 to 14 — out of school to see Obama speak. The teachers were cool about it, he said

lolz

hahahaha

I don't agree with the strain of allegedly sexist comments coming from MSNBC talking heads, but what does Clinton stand to gain by threatening not to debate on that network anymore? "The press hates Hillary" storyline has another chapter now, I guess.

Super-delegates were created after the insurgent outsider campaigns of McGovern and Carter...The idea was to return some power to party officials.

It really is true that democracy peaked in America in the '70s.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n246/dmchenry_2006/19978_BlackJesus_Pg23_WEB.jpg

thats_racist.gif

naw j/k

Here a possible angle:

Democratic Presidential candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton will meet in a televised debate in Cleveland on Feb. 26, after a day haggling over whether there would be any debate in Ohio at all before the state's March 4 primary.

The Obama campaign put out a news release shortly after 7 p.m. saying it had agreed to a debate sponsored by NBC and its affiliate in Cleveland, WKYC, that would be broadcast in all Ohio media markets, including Cincinnati.

That's from this morning.

I'm confused, what's the angle?

Hillary presses for weekly debates; Obama says he'll agree to two -- in Ohio and Texas, where she is favored, and probably would prefer not to debate. Hillary campaign seizes on dumb talking head comments to stop to negotiate a debate at a different location / different network.

I could just be spinning conspiracy theories, though. When you get immersed in so much chatter it gets confusing trying to connect up different bits of information.

I will seriously be much happier and less distracted once this shit is settled and I can regain relative sanity until at least October.

is no one going to call out my crackpot theory? ugh

Well, it appears that that is the debate that they are threatening to walk out on - so the theory's not looking that crackpot to me.

well, defending chelsea's honor, even if it is disingenuous, is a pretty ironclad reason -- i don't think anyone but internerds would float the idea that the clinton campaign is leveraging the remark against her daughter for political advantage

I agree with Shuster tho.

Rep. David Obey (D-WI) endorses Obama, btw

OBEY

I see two problems with your theory.

1. This was largely a complaint from the ground that snowballed into an issue that Senator Clinton was forced to address. I received three e-mail’s about it before the campaign officially commented on the remarks.

2. Senator Clinton needs to debate. Policy is her largest asset and we’ve only reached real policy discussion in the last two weeks.

3. Most importantly, wouldn’t you defend your daughter?

lol. three.

xxxxxpost : Charlie Crist totally weirds me out:

http://www.floridafaf.org/images/crist_color_sm.jpg

I know he's from Floria and everything but geesh.. he is sooo tan

No one in their right mind would think that Shuster meant "pimp" literally though - so the taking offense does seem a bit overdone - but it's not like the Clinton camp has much to lose by making it an issue. Either they get an apology from the network, which makes them look good and gets a favorable story for them (ie., the media has an anti-Clinton bias) in the cycle for a day, or else they get to skip a debate that tactically probably wouldn't help them much anyway.

Joe fuckin' Klein, accusing Obama of "messianic" tendencies:

Rather than focusing on any specific issue or cause — other than an amorphous desire for change — the message is becoming dangerously self-referential. The Obama campaign all too often is about how wonderful the Obama campaign is...There is an odd, anachronistic formality to Obama's stump speech: it is always the same. It sets his audiences afire, but it does not reach very far beyond them. It is no accident that Obama is nearly invincible in caucus states, where the ability to mobilize a hard core of activists is key — but not so strong in primaries, where more diverse masses of people are involved. He should be very worried that this nomination is likely to be decided in the big working-class primary states of Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania.

he wasn't attacking Chelsea though. I mean, maybe his choice of words was misguided, but he didn't say anything that was egregiously wrong

I know he's from Floria and everything but geesh.. he is sooo tan

There's rumors that the sunshine's not the only thing he likes about Florida.

There is an odd, anachronistic formality to Obama's stump speech: it is always the same.

aren't stump speeches always the same? (genuinely asking)

(i mean, yea i know stump speeches are tweaked for particular audiences, and obama does that anyways, but in general, we refer to a candidate's stump speech, singular, not one's stump speeches)

obama-haters are seriously reaching.

He should be very worried that this nomination is likely to be decided in the big working-class primary states of Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania.

this is probably true, though, and it worries me.

press calling obama cult-leader have maybe forgotten about lyndon larouche?

meanwhile:

obama up by 20 points in virginia

i dunno about my aforementioned crackpot theory, but after the self-loan and the "staff going without pay! oops not really lol", the clinton campaign seems to be gaming the media for as much free fundraising publicity as it can get this week

they're just making up stories out of non-issues in order to combat the obama momentum

"staff going without pay! oops not really lol"

lolz

math question: if (1)obama wins most of february's contests decisively, and (2)hillary wins ohio/texas/pennsylvania, but not decisively enough to get a lot of delegates, can he take the lead in delegates (not including super-d's, yet)?

yeah we spoke about that yesterday.

i worry -- the obama campaign claims confidence against the clinton attack machine, but i think hillary's a different type of candidate altogether when she's trailing in polls. has she ever been on the losing side of an election?

well considering she's only run for one office, i would say no.

The "we are the change" Obama line is creepily reminiscent of Nashville's Hal Philip Walker. (and nowhere as funny as Rodham's "dreams and practicality")

xxxpost - sorry i must have missed it. when i look at the numbers i'm not sure, since ohio/texas/penn are so delegate rich

what can they use against obama, though? the only thing i can think of that may really hurt him is that church he belongs to which allegedy has ties to Farrakhan...

xxxpost she was neck and neck with rudy, but when he dropped out she pretty much had it in the bag against lazio

xpost

I think according to the Obama campaign's math, the answer is yes. He should still hold a slight lead in pledged delegates even if he loses in all three of those states, as long as they're not very distant losses.

morbs, "we are the ones we've been waiting for" is apparently a hopi proverb? something like that?

well, I bet it sounds better in the original.

obama camp memo, lays it all out pretty well why obama is the best match against mccain (re: independent voters):

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/obama_campaign_memo_hes_the_gu.php#more

i should send all this stuff to my mom.

I will seriously be much happier and less distracted once this shit is settled and I can regain relative sanity until at least October.

seriously. i haven't gotten anything done at work in the past two weeks. more of my time is taken up by reading political sites, blogs, news, etc. than by anything else. i also think i've made like 2 posts to the rest of ILX in the past month.

timesaver for Mark and elmo:

"Laugh about it, shout about it when you've got to choose
Every way you look at it you lose."

Crowd for Obama getting turned away today:

http://i29.tinypic.com/2le3zgk.jpg

NBC NEWS STATEMENT REGARDING CHELSEA CLINTON COMMENT:

On Thursday's "Tucker" on MSNBC, David Shuster, who was serving as guest-host of the program, made a comment about Chelsea Clinton and the Clinton campaign that was irresponsible and inappropriate. Shuster, who apologized this morning on MSNBC and will again this evening, has been suspended from appearing on all NBC News broadcasts, other than to make his apology. He has also extended an apology to the Clinton family. NBC News takes these matters seriously, and offers our sincere regrets to the Clintons for the remarks.