Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (4470 of them)
Even so, I'll give him a "Get Out Of Dud Free" card for this, which I think is pretty goddamn cool.

but he loses that card for this, the final page of the aforementioned document, in which mr. springsteen proves he can't spell "asbury park."

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 23 November 2003 16:48 (twenty years ago) link

ballboy's cover of 'born in the usa' is an eye-opener, who knew the lyrics were so touching and mournful i always had the image of his bulging veins in my head but ballboy's tender version reveals the beauty of the song.

keith m (keithmcl), Sunday, 23 November 2003 16:53 (twenty years ago) link

Why do people who otherwise dislike Springsteen give "Nebraska" a pass?

i otherwise kinda like springsteen, so perhaps i'm not the best to answer this, but i'd say his career mathematically boils down to this:

1. great singer
2. damn good songwriter (despite a huge drop-off in the '90s)
3. fair-to-average, overrated bar-band backing (playing mostly hackneyed arrangements)
4. poor production (i like "born to run" just fine, but after that it's just so completely lacking in punch and warmth i can't believe he's ever been lauded for it)

"nebraska" discards with (3) and (4), leaving him playing entirely to his strengths. and as it happens his songwriting hit a peak at the same time. i'd say it's far and away his best.

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 23 November 2003 17:16 (twenty years ago) link

who knew the lyrics were so touching and mournful

i'd have to guess anyone owns the record knew, what with him screaming those lyrics out for the entire length of the song, not to mention the fact that he included a lyric sheet. that'd be 15 or 20 million people right there.

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 23 November 2003 17:19 (twenty years ago) link

i never could get past the drama of his singing to actually pay attention to the words, sorry.

keith m (keithmcl), Sunday, 23 November 2003 17:30 (twenty years ago) link

well if you're now curious, you should by all means explore (though keeping above caveats in mind). because he's been writing touching and mournful lyrics almost from the start, but especially starting with "darkness on the edge of town" (1978). that's what he does, and he's quite good at it, and he doesn't always sing with such drama. he can be quiet when he wants to. examples: "racing in the street," "the river," "the wreck on the highway," almost all of "nebraska," "brilliant disguise," "streets of philadelphia."

fact checking cuz, Sunday, 23 November 2003 17:57 (twenty years ago) link

"brilliant disguise" is his best moment imo

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 23 November 2003 18:05 (twenty years ago) link

this thread only serves to prove that ned raggett is __________.

Wonderful and glorious. No, no need to thank me.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 23 November 2003 19:35 (twenty years ago) link

seven months pass...
oh maaaaaan

amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 16 July 2004 13:57 (nineteen years ago) link

"Dancing in the Dark" is amazing. I don't really think anyone has really captured anything essential about this song in print.

the 2nd verse of "41 shots" is heartbreaking, astonishing. the rest of the song doesn't quite live up to it.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 04:52 (nineteen years ago) link

all of springsteen's big singles have something really askew in their POV, something that defies the unthinking characterization of him as "heartland rock" or whatever.

also the man can sing. i don't like the way he pronounces "somewhere" (mumbled: "some-wahr") BUT: "lit-tle-world-fal-lin-apart"!!!

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 04:56 (nineteen years ago) link

music like grey meat and boiled potatoes cold on soggy paper plate

jack cole (jackcole), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 04:58 (nineteen years ago) link

yawn

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 04:59 (nineteen years ago) link

anyway, you're talking to the wrong man: i even like human touch

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 05:00 (nineteen years ago) link

ClaSSIC no doubt. Obviously has weaker records and stronger records just like every hero you have who didn't die or implode before they could make shitty rekkids. But fuck it, I like everything and part of it is bcuz of the romantic aspect of it, the mythos. The reason he's connected with so many people is because he has no hip art credentials nor does he pretend to and for all his earnestness (which is usually annoying) his characters NEVER MAKE IT! as someone said above. And calling born in the u.s.a. synth-pop is actually quite OTM. "Born To Run" is one of my favorite songs ever, Nebraska and E-Street Shuffle and Born in the U.S.A. being pretty awesome records - "Dancing in the Dark," the title track and "I'm on Fire" being amazing comeback moments. Even Streets of Philadelphia is pretty awesome, fuck even 41 Shots.

My mom loved his music, and I think it has something of a sentimental value for me for that reason. But I think it's deserved. Perhaps this is a cheap shot (bcuz I know there are poor ppl who don't like him) but I think most people who have ever been on the underside of reaganomix will agree that he spoke for people who needed someone like him. I don't care how un-hip it is to say that I like his music because it speaks to me from a place that few kinds of music do - certainly moreso than Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

djdee2005, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 05:17 (nineteen years ago) link

(which is usually annoying) is actually supposed to read (which is usually annoying with other artists)

djdee2005, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 05:21 (nineteen years ago) link

I wonder what it means to "get" Springsteen. I certainly do, but damned if I can put my finger on what part of my sensibility he touches. It's not quite the "heartland" thing, though I did grow up around rampant Springsteen fandom in the heartland, around people who felt patriotic about "Born in the USA." A good deal of my pop music sensibility has been shaped as a backlash to those people and their values, but Springsteen sticks even in spite of that. In spite of that? That doesn't sound right. I think I may have been listening to a different Springsteen all along.

Favorite work of his: side two of Tunnel of Love. A perfect piece.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 05:42 (nineteen years ago) link

I think the thing is that the "heartland thing" is a lot more complex than many of us (or "them") are willing to admit. Despite the "we're simple people" ethos no one is really that simple and Springsteen's a pretty avowed leftist/populist. His appeal to "the heartland" goes far beyond flag waving.

djdee2005, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 05:47 (nineteen years ago) link

I actually once said to someone on my college newspaper, "If you don't like Bruce Springsteen, you don't like rock'n'roll!" And then this other guy who I didn't know turned around and said, "Right on!" And no, neither of us was Nick Hornby.

That embarrasment aside, I do still like Bruce, though. For one thing, I like that (apart from Nebraska), his most depressing songs are also his most clappy-singalong songs. "Hungry Heart," "Born in the USA," "Cadillac Ranch", etc.

spittle (spittle), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 05:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I think the thing is that the "heartland thing" is a lot more complex than many of us (or "them") are willing to admit.

The "heartleand" thing" is more complicated than people who live there are willing to admit -- that's the problem. They ought to be populist (if not leftist), but they're not. They have a habit of ignoring their own reality in favor of something that someone told them was "simple." They buy "simple" like it was bread, and swallow it whole, and don't even realize they're choking on it.

But anyway... you're right, Springsteen does not fit into that mold, not by a mile.

Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 05:58 (nineteen years ago) link

The "heartleand" thing" is more complicated than people who live there are willing to admit -- that's the problem. They ought to be populist (if not leftist), but they're not

"Ought to be?" Nothing more amusing than someone who isn't part of a group dictating to them what their preferences and priorities should be, as if they're too stupid to figure it out for themselves.

Anyway, "Downbound Train" > "Dancing In The Dark" > "Born in the USA", as far as that album goes.

phil dennison, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 13:13 (nineteen years ago) link

"Now I work down at the car wash/ Where all it ever does is rain..."

Yeah, I like that one.

spittle (spittle), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 13:30 (nineteen years ago) link

i don't really care about "getting rock n roll." the "kids flash guitars just like switchblades" part of the self-conscious springsteen cosmology is the least interesting part to me, thankfully he largely abandoned it after born to run. i don't really presume that there is any one key to "getting" springsteen, or that he embodies america or rock n roll or any such thing. though undoubtedly he has expressed with unusual eloquence and breadth the ambivalence that many people feel about this country in its many manifestations.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link

"downbound train" is a bad song, worse than most of the stuff on human touch i think.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 15:31 (nineteen years ago) link

also at its best his music can be extremely supple and gripping, but you knew that. the synth line in "dancing in the dark" is amazing.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 15:33 (nineteen years ago) link

"Dancing in the Dark" is amazing. I don't really think anyone has really captured anything essential about this song in print.

i agree. love for this song suddenly sprung upon me within the last four or five years. i was pretty indifferent to it, and then one day i was driving (naturally) and it came on the radio (of course) and that was it. i saw bruce last summer at meadowlands, and i cried twice (you want to hear atlantic city in a stadium in the dark with tens of thousands of people around you absolutely silent).

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 15:46 (nineteen years ago) link

what a funny subject for a song: i'm bored, i'm stir crazy, wanna come over and fuck?

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 15:58 (nineteen years ago) link

i likewise only more recently began to appreciate the leering, vaguely menacing "i'm on fire." my friend found a cassingle copy in a church thrift store and made us listen to it over and over again as we drove vaguely (and stupidly) drunkenly around rural ohio.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:03 (nineteen years ago) link

it's only like 2 minutes long, too.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:06 (nineteen years ago) link

bruce got pretty randy there for a while, didn't he.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:07 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah there's a sort of offhandedness to his lust in those songs that make them more authentically sexy than the earlier stuff where the lust is mixed in with poetic conceits ("I go driving deep into the light in Candy's eyes" etc.).

i sort of imagine springsteen has a randy old man album in him, but he'll have to get all the faith/hope/redemption metaphors out of his system first.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Hmmm . . . I've never heard all of Human Touch, but I'm curious as to what you think makes "Downbound Train" a bad song? (You must really hate "Bobbie Jean.")

phil dennison, Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:25 (nineteen years ago) link

downbound train is grebt

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:51 (nineteen years ago) link

i still really like "growin' up" even with those goofy lyrics.

gygax! (gygax!), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:53 (nineteen years ago) link

It was funny the other week I saw my friend's band play with a kinda Touch & Go-ey, post Shellacy Fugazi type band from Austria called Valina (who were quite good, actually)....anyway their last song started off taking part of a verse from "No Surrender" by the Boss....the "we learned more from a three-minute record than we ever learned at school"...at first I was blown away because I thought it was a wierd reworked cover, but after the show I talked to the lead singer and he said it was a little tribute thrown into their song because he always liked that line alot....

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:56 (nineteen years ago) link

talk abt 'nebraska', 'the river', 'darkness...' these are the ones I own!

cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link

the river has hungry heart, which is yet another track that i was slow to appreciate but now adore. nebraska and darkness both are pretty perfect, i think. the two songs that brought me to boohoohoohooing during the concert are from those records - atlantic city and badlands. though i did get a bit choked up during rosalita, which is from the wild, the innocent, and the e street shuffle.
anyway, there are many possible things to talk about. where do you want to start?

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 17:12 (nineteen years ago) link

we cd start with you giving me a decent recipe fr lemon sole and then maybe go on to talk more about why you & amst think bruce is so great.

cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 17:15 (nineteen years ago) link

darkness has some weak stuff on it ("adam raised a cain" has an interesting topic but is a cheesy song with a bad vocal, "something in the night" is just boring, "streets of fire" is pretty bad) and some incredible stuff.

the river: i'm partial to "the ties that bind," "stolen car," "ramroad," "the price you pay" (not sure why i like this one so much). "wreck on the highway" is a really amazingly clear expression of a very simple and powerful idea, though i'm starting to like it a bit less than before. "hungry heart" i like, but i think i need to listen to it harder. (??)

i love "bobbie jean."

a lot of the now-officially-released-formerly-unreleased stuff is unspeakably bad. maybe 15% of it is good.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 17:34 (nineteen years ago) link

ah, ok. the sole: you need a grill basket for this, and a grill. brush the grill basket with oil and place inside (skin side down) a whole, deboned sole that you have doused with lemon, salt, and pepper. place the basket over the coals and while the fish is cooking make a sauce vierge: chop up several of the most gorgeous ripe tomatoes that you can find and add finely shredded fresh basil, olive oil, pepper, salt, to taste. when the fish flakes with gentle pressure from a fork, it's ready to come off the grill. serve it on a platter with lemon slices and sauce to accompany, and a bottle of sancerre.
now, springsteen...

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 17:36 (nineteen years ago) link

nebraska: nothing i can say that hasn't been said, but my favorites are "atlantic city," "mansion on the hill" (because my mom told me a similar story about her and her dad), "state trooper." "used cars" sort of looks forward to the general dullness of the music on the ghost of tom joad, though the lyric has some nice touches.

that makes (at least) two springsteen songs inspired by badlands, btw.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link

the main reason for my bruce love is in the lyrics which, be they of the overwrought impassioned variety (ie thunder road, badlands, born to run, rosalita) or the quieter, simpler desperate sort (ie atlantic city, the river, hungry heart), never strike me as false. i guess it's that damn earnestness thing, but when he says "i want to die with you wendy on the streets tonight in an everlasting kiss" or "there were ghosts in the eyes of all the boys you sent away/they haunt this dusty beach road in the skeleton frames of burned out chevrolets," i not only believe him but i don't think that it's corny. no mean feat. and this emotional lyrical resonance is paired with the simplest of music in most cases, either the big rousing anthem or ghostly quiet lament. i used to see that as a weak point - the sameyness, the way the choruses repeat until they almost spin out - but i don't anymore. he's figured out how to make the music do what it needs to, and stuck to that.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 17:53 (nineteen years ago) link

i sort of admire the lyrics pre-darkness more than i feel them. the conceits get rather too thick for me at times. i prefer stuff like "state trooper" or "dancing in the dark."

bruce actually has written some amazing lyrics post-1987, but in general he can't seem to get the balance of abstraction and the particular as right as he once had.

and something has gone off about his music, too. critics tend to be glib about this, but i think it's fairly complicated. his gift for melody has withered a bit. i would say his gift for instrumental texture too, but even something like "lucky town" has a nice feel for the basic rock setup.

his "simplicity" definitely has the feel of an *earned* simplicity, a paring down... which is exactly what it is, since his first records had fairly sprawling melodies and arrangements.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

also it is fun to make up make lyrics to "10th avenue freeze-out"

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 20 July 2004 22:53 (nineteen years ago) link

talk abt 'nebraska', 'the river', 'darkness...' these are the ones I own!

Those are my 3 faves, although on a song-by-song basis both Born in the USA and Tunnel of Love beat Darkness, which (as has been noted) has its dodgy moments. But the stuff that's good on Darkness is good in some really interesting ways. I think he came into his own there, figured out more what worked for him and what didn't. He kept the big anthems, but he also finally figured out the quiet end -- it's the first album that anticipates Nebraska, especially the title track. And even the anthems got more pointed and pared down. Like, "poor man wanna be rich/ rich man wanna be king/ and a king ain't satisfied until he rules everything/ I wanna go out tonight, I wanna find out what I got" -- I mean, that's a great fucking lyric, especially joined to the jumping-out-of-his-skin throb of the song. It combines dawning political consciousness with adolescent will to power, and suggests without even meaning to the roots of fascism. And it locates all that in small-town Midwestern we-gotta-get-out-of-this-place cockiness, just barely covering up for a growing certainty that he ain't going nowhwere. (Which is kind of the theme of the whole album, I think, even more than "Born to Run" -- on Born to Run there still seemed to be some kind of idea that all that mythic shit would add up to something, but "Darkness" kind of put an end to that.)

Also, for all its cheesiness, I love "Candy's Room" just for the pure horny build and release of it. ("Prove It All Night," on the other hand, never really gets going -- he makes it sound way too much like work.)

Then The River...the blue-collar record. It's all working men and docks and factories and families. They date, they fall in love, they get married. They have fun on a Friday night (I admit to being a sucker for "Out in the Street," which is like the best beer-commercial song ever). But things go wrong, times get hard (on account o' the economy), men wander go out for a ride and they never come back. And even if nothing really bad happens, there's always some dead kid on a dark road to remind you where it's all headed. Favorites: "Hungry Heart," of course, because the narrator from the beginning seems aware of the weakness of his excuse (hey babe, I got a hungry heart, what can I say?), but also because there's something not bullshit about "everybody got a hungry heart" and "ain't nobody like to be alone." "Cadillac Ranch," which is basically a rewrite of "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" with James Dean and Junior Johnson in supporting roles -- the most rollicking Grim Reaper song ever (long and dark, shiny and black, pulled up to the house today, and it took my little girl away).
The title track, which is metaphorically overladen but to me makes up for it with the last verse (I just act like I don't remember/ Mary acts like she don't care/ but I rememember us riding in my brother's car, etc.), which just fucking hearts it's so good. Also, the fact that the song's preceded by a brace of exactly the kind of cocky teenage come-ons that got Mary pregnant in the first place ("Crush on You", "You Can Look (but You Better Not Touch)", "I Wanna Marry You") is some kind of brilliant sequencing.

And I love love love "Sherry Darling," which is maybe his funniest song, but still also a little desperate (he can't get this fucking noisy, nosy prospective mother-in-law out of his car or his life). And it has a hook like a shipyard crane.

Nebraska I wouldn't even know where to start talking and I've said enough, so I'll confine myself to "Reason to Believe," which -- like a lot of his stuff -- tends to get misread. The set-up is simple: every verse, something shitty happens, and at the end of every hard-earned day people find some reason to believe. There's nothing hopeful about it (especially not coming at the end of that album). The most he can bring himself to say is that it strikes him kind of funny. Take that as you will.

spittle (spittle), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 03:22 (nineteen years ago) link

which just fucking hearts it's so good

I meant hurts. I think. Whichever.

spittle (spittle), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 03:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I fell in like, not love, with Bruce about the time of Tenth Avenue Freze Out and have kept it up for nearly all the intervening years.

jim wentworth (wench), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 03:42 (nineteen years ago) link

oh yeah, that's the one that goes "talkin bout the talmud! talkin bout the talmud!"

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 04:05 (nineteen years ago) link

"ramrod" is so overdriven it threatens to break down more than a few times, like an old car you're trying to push past 80 (i figure car metaphors are fair game here)--way past pitch control, in any case. it's great.

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 04:08 (nineteen years ago) link

also can we have a moratorium on the word "cheesy" as applied to mr. springsteen, whether to be affirmed or dismissed? something about it really bugs me. maybe because even in spittle's post above, it sort of sits there as a reminder that in many quarters an affection for BS still needs to be defended in some vaguely apologetic way.

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 21 July 2004 04:10 (nineteen years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.