Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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oh, yeah, forgot about the league cup final.

jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 5 February 2003 22:14 (11 years ago) Permalink

Tom can you delete Gerard Houllier please.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:33 (11 years ago) Permalink

Quoi?

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:40 (11 years ago) Permalink

And the rest of the club too.

Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 6 February 2003 10:50 (11 years ago) Permalink

that heskey miss was sensational

zemko (bob), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I heard Gerard say recently that Liverpool have actually had more shots on target than any other team in the P-ship this season - I guess they just haven't been very good shots on target. And judging by last night's performance I can believe it. So does mean that Liverpool's problem isn't lack of width/creative players but rather that the front pairing isn't right? Should Baros be given an extended spell in the 1st team? Should we sell Owen while we could still get big bucks for him?

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:07 (11 years ago) Permalink

JtN's last sentance would have been sacrilegous 6 months or more ago, but it's looking more and more like good business sense, I've had two very in-depth discussions about him on the last week and the topic has come round to one thing. Owen relies on one shot, the curled shot past the keeper into the top right of the goal, you can see him do it every time. However, now his confidence is low, he seems to be scuffing a hella lot more than he connects with, leading to the current plight. Can we wait for the confidence? I don't know to be honest, but Baros has played well enough to give him a run out. Maybe resting Owen for more than just one game could be the answer, not to do with tiredness but to do with him realisisng that he needs to fight for his place.

Word is that Reebok are sponsoring Liverpool to the tune of 100 million and that iit's going to be spent on players (hmmm, and not the new Anfield), but if we ain't in the hampions league, we ain't gong to get the best.

chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 11:43 (11 years ago) Permalink

Word is that Reebok are sponsoring Liverpool to the tune of 100 million and that iit's going to be spent on players (hmmm, and not the new Anfield), but if we ain't in the hampions league, we ain't gong to get the best.

Maybe it depends who's choosing them. Houllier spent 43 million on the following outfield ten:

Heggem, Xavier, Traore, Vignal; Cheyrou, Diomede, Biscan, Smicer; Diouf, Heskey.

What a team, eh? To be fair, in a few cases, they helped win LFC those three cups. But a few more were intended to take LFC to the next level. Next level down, I guess. Houllier does seem to be becoming increasingly paranoid and delusional though (not necessarily about the shots-on-goal thing - they do waste a lot of chances, think of the 0-0 home draw with Sunderland).

Or is this a False Dusk?

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 6 February 2003 13:40 (11 years ago) Permalink

I hope it is Jonesy, I really do.

Out of those ten, I would keep Vignal (will be good in the future and was pretty cheap, he was flying before he got injured), Diouf (apparently had his best 45 minutes for Liverpool in the first half last night) and of course Heskey, who is a god to me (but I haven't seen *that* miss yet).

Smicer though? the sooner we're rid of him the better, he's rubbish. And I ain't too sure about Cheyrou either.

chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 13:52 (11 years ago) Permalink

if we'd scored even a third of the chances we got last night then we'd have been hailing a very good performance but then that's been the case all season, hasn't it? some strange noises coming out of anfield re. hamann yesterday also.

michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:03 (11 years ago) Permalink

What were these strange noises? Animal noises? Or some kind of spooky chanting?

Tim (Tim), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:06 (11 years ago) Permalink

when i say "that's been the case all season" i am not saying that's been the only reason we've had such a poor season, just that we've missed an impossible number of good goalscoring opportunities. they'd make a video in themselves.

michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:06 (11 years ago) Permalink

the noises were a cross between squeaky trainers and blowing raspberries.

michael wells (michael w.), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:07 (11 years ago) Permalink

and they were sounding as if they were saying "come to Bayern Didi"

chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 14:29 (11 years ago) Permalink

i'm not convinced by the lack of width problem, arsenal don't have flying wingers either tho they do have a tighter pitch (hem hem), tho pires n' ljungberg are masters of timing. murphy and cheyrou are good enough i think

diouf is sadly maligned but i don't think he'll ever be the ticket. squeezing a bit of value out of him by playing him on the wing won't fool anyone

i love cheyrou!! don't u think he looks really good in possession

zemko (bob), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:17 (11 years ago) Permalink

I think he looks really good full stop.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:24 (11 years ago) Permalink

I think he looks a bit panicked in posession, maybe he needs to get used to the premiership's pace (what a cliche!) or something, but the slagging he got last night on 606 would indicate something wrong with at least last night's performance.

chris (chris), Thursday, 6 February 2003 16:28 (11 years ago) Permalink

Maybe resting Owen for more than just one game could be the answer, not to do with tiredness but to do with him realisisng that he needs to fight for his place.

If it's good enough for Dudek, then it should be good enough for Golden Boy.

Venga, Friday, 7 February 2003 11:36 (11 years ago) Permalink

resting dudek my arse! if kirkland hadn't got himself then dudek would never have played again, such is houllier's 'master plan'

zemko (bob), Friday, 7 February 2003 11:43 (11 years ago) Permalink

got himself injured rather

zemko (bob), Friday, 7 February 2003 11:44 (11 years ago) Permalink

Zemko, I meant that if under-performances (esp that Man U game) cost Dudek his place in the team, then his missing five sitters every game should be worthy of little Mikey being passed over for a few weeks.

Stick him in the reserves, let him net a few and get his confidence back. This is a good plan, just ask Milan Baros. Although, I still have a sinking feeling that Houllier will insist on picking MO against Boro tomorrow. Bah.

Venga, Friday, 7 February 2003 11:58 (11 years ago) Permalink

Last night I saw Everton get thrashed 6-0 by Newcastle, and then beaten 1-2 at Goodison by a Southampton team who came back from a goal down.

I think the manager needs to stop the slide pronto, or he could be in for a rough ride.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 14:28 (11 years ago) Permalink

B-but I've signed Winston Bogarde, Ali Benarbia and Soren Krogh, we're 8th and I have the full backing of the board!

(Nipping this in the bud... any potential Championship Manager 2001/02 talk perhaps deserves its own thread. Or contempt.)

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:50 (11 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
Revive!

It's the Goodison derby in five days' time and to my pleasant surprise (and, no doubt, to the Rednoses' astonishment) Everton remain a sliver ahead of Liverpool in the table going into it. Reading my cautious blabberings above I think I expected us to be about 11th by Easter weekend.

So, what do we reckon? EFC still grinding out narrow victories, LFC vacillating between brilliant and dismal. I suspect a lot rests on Radzinski's fitness and Hyppia's suspension status.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 14 April 2003 11:20 (11 years ago) Permalink

It's just impossible to tell with Liverpool these days, without being vindictive I really hope Houllier leaves this summer but it doesn't look likely.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 14 April 2003 12:26 (11 years ago) Permalink

If Liverpool are at their best they can win it, but who knows how good they'll be on the day? Anyone's guess. I hope Everton win, I hope Houllier goes - they are so dull to watch!

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 14 April 2003 16:44 (11 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...
dr c dodged my ranieri question!

what are you thinking re: chelsea now dr.c?

gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 11:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

I woz wrong - CR is a good manager. We fight, we play good football and we win, so overall I'm happy.

At the moment I am extremely worried that we will end up fifth - the Villa loss was a dreadful result. I think West Ham might be a tough game as they need the points and they've beaten us once already this season. For next season we need a stronger/larger squad, espec. for Europe - we've been quite lucky with injuries this year, but may not get away with it again. Big problem - no money Priorities - a) a ballwinner to replace Petit and release Lampard b) an international striker - JimmyFloyd's era may be up, Zola needs handling carefully at 37 and Cole is not yet ready. I'd love to get Beattie, but they can't afford him. c) an attacking/wide or central midfielder to give more cover there. I think DeLucas will come good eventually, but Gronkjaer wavers and Stanic is dreadful.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 12:11 (10 years ago) Permalink

Oh, well, someone had to revive this. After Easter weekend I didn't have the heart.

Everton really running out of steam now - bringing Big Dunc on for the last half hour and pitching balls up for him smacks of the bad old days (but nice when they rebound to Wayne's left foot). Very little going on in midfield, a true creative drought in the derby and simply outpassed by Chelsea (again). Radzinski can't come back quickly enough.

Liverpool now finishing as strongly as they did in 2000-01 (didn't they win 6-0 at Ipswich in the closing stages of that season?); we need a Fowler special at the Anfield Road end next Saturday.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 12:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

what do the liverpool fans think of baros now?

gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 12:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

still think he's ok, he doesn't get a long enough run to be truly sure. You can't judge him on last weekend's performance, I reckon I'd have got a couple against the baggies the way they were playing.

chris (chris), Tuesday, 29 April 2003 12:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think Wayne Rooney could decide the title.

Many people have been talking as though United will win all their remaining games. If they had Sunderland after Charlton I'd agree. But Everton, at Goodison, on the final day? I can't see United winning that. In which case, if Arsenal beat Leeds, Soton and Sunderland, the title is likely theirs - possibly on goal difference. No?

(If Arsenal *don't* win the title, Rooney will have played his part by inflicting their first defeat.)

the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2003 10:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

I'd be surprised if United don't beat Everton, extremely surprised, the way they're playing now.

I think Liverpool should be able to overcome their hoodoo with Chelsea, Baros still missed loads of chances against West Brom.

Though none were as bad as Lampard's glorious miss against Fulham.

Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 2 May 2003 11:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

I agree about Liverpool vs Chelsea. I think Man U will draw at Goodison. Nil-nil.

Nordicskillz (Nordicskillz), Friday, 2 May 2003 11:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

i think 'pool will sneak a champions' league spot, too. as for man u, i'd put my money on them to beat charlton and everton, but i'm not as certain of it as some seem to be. i wouldn't be surprised if rooney foiled us, either. maybe arsenal will slip up before the everton game (i don't think there's even a slight possibility of them dropping anything to sunderland on the last day). i'll go with man u to win the title, but i'm only about 55% sure.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 2 May 2003 11:15 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think the likeliest scenario is still the one in which United win the title this coming Sunday afternoon, *but* if it does go the distance then I think it's Arsenal's on GD.

Man Utd's Goodison victories have become depressingly routine in recent years - I think the opening day of 99-00 with Jaap Stam's hilarious own goal was the only time in the last seven or eight seasons we've got anything off them. However, we matched them for 86 minutes at Old Trafford and I refuse to contemplate a season like this one ending with the anticlimax of a home defeat to anyone...
so 1-1.

I think Liverpool will lose out on a Champions' League place on the ol' GD an' all. (Ideal scenario: they lose to both Man City and Chelsea, Everton pick up six points and the Blue Dream is realised).

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 2 May 2003 13:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

Mike, I liked your use of "Ferguson" and "smack" in the same sentence. I'm only sad you forgot to include "cunt".

I was at a meeting this morning pitching to run Liverpool and Arsenal's online chatroom/community services. That'd be quite fun, I think. Apparently a previous tech employee was fired, but left himself a back door in, and then informed all the LFC users that the moderating team were all from Manchester. With sexy results!

Mark C (Mark C), Friday, 2 May 2003 13:29 (10 years ago) Permalink

'Fun'?

He didn't use 'Ferguson'.

Language!

the pinefox, Friday, 2 May 2003 13:40 (10 years ago) Permalink

haha, the Pinefox arguing that Arsenal will win the title!

I think one factor on the final day will be if Everton have anything to play for. If they need a result for a place in the UEFA cup, not an implausible scenario from memory (I've not checked tables), Man U will have it a lot tougher than if they have nothing to gain.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Friday, 2 May 2003 17:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think one factor on the final day will be if Everton have anything to play for. If they need a result for a place in the UEFA cup, not an implausible scenario from memory (I've not checked tables), Man U will have it a lot tougher than if they have nothing to gain.

I'd like to think a Moyes team would make it tough for anybody regardless of the circumstances but the capitulation at Loftus Road this afternoon suggests we're in meltdown now. Pah, I get my fantasy result at Anfield and we go and score two own-goals. Blackburn breathing down our necks now for that last UEFA Cup spot, so I guess I have to hope for an Arsenal-Leeds draw and Fergie sending out the youth team at Goodison for a kickabout.

Magnitude of today's Man U victory makes the GD situation kinda interesting; United could win the title with a draw at Everton if Arsenal's three victories are only by a single-goal margin; if the Arse manage a 2-0 somewhere along the way the Gunners will win it on goals scored, as they did in (look away, Pinefox) 1989.

West Ham-Chelsea sounded like a blinder on the radio. They're still going down, of course.

All this rather irrelevant compared to events in Swansea and Exeter. What a day to get married.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 3 May 2003 17:46 (10 years ago) Permalink

What happened at Southampton?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 3 May 2003 18:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

leeds - arsenal tomorrow is going to be a great game - there's a hell of a lot to play for. wouldn't be surprised if leeds sneak a point. chelsea - liverpool should be interesting, if the 'pool hadn't conceded that late goal all they'd need was a point. anelka gets revenge on his old club, y'know.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Saturday, 3 May 2003 19:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

It could be a fantastic last day. Everton with a UEFA place versus Man U still needing a win for the title, with Blackburn and Arsenal fighting for wins behind them. Chelsea-Liverpool for the last Champions' League place. West Ham, Bolton and Leeds all fighting to avoid the last relegation slot. There could be a hell of a lot still to settle, and few meaningless games.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 3 May 2003 20:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

ok, pool and everton both miss out on their european targets - a sad day on merseyside. moyes' excellence remains undoubted, but do 'pool fans wish to see the back of houllier? i think the worthington cup win (combined with a rather good record up to this season) will save him for now, but do you feel he's unable to take the next step?

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

he's getting another year anyway it seems, almost impossible to see pool winning the league under him. It's sad actually, I feel sorry for him, especially the manner in which he is criticised sometimes, "old man houllier" or "madman" or whatever, it's a bit sickening sometimes.

There's a part of me that fears next year could be total meltdown.

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think he's pretty short on ideas and distrusts the kind of creativity that seems necessary to get right to the top.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:19 (10 years ago) Permalink

i felt a bit sorry for him when the itv pundit started quizzing him about how he felt about anelka scoring two goals against 'pool, after he let him go. he just did this long, weary sigh, and then said something like "Your question is out of line, best decision for the club at the time, yadda yadda yadda." I can't see them making much progress under houllier, but i can't see him going either, cos he had quite a good thing going for a while.

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:32 (10 years ago) Permalink

not a total loss, people say its the worthless cup and maybe it is, but it still was a nice day, it's still winning something, i had a big smile on my face, faith reaffirmed afterwards anyway.

Ronan (Ronan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 21:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

As the Pinefox said to me this afternoon, it's foolish to rely on Spurs for anything. I haven't seen the van Nistelrooy penalty incident, but it didn't matter in the end so easily did Blackburn coast to victory.

Ultimately no better than 95-96 (a false dawn before Royle found the carpet whipped from beneath him); remains to be seen whether Everton's satisfying and surprising season-long upswing will be a precursor to disintegration a la Sunderland and Ipswich (Champs Lge contenders in 99-00 and 00-01 respectively) or whether we're about to rejoin the Big Boys' Club like Newcastle and Chelsea have.

Thing that worries me the most: lack of goals. 48 in 38 Premiership games is not very good, and the only time we hit three all season was in a 4-3 defeat at Tottenham. Seven times we came from behind to win, six of them at home with three of those earned with injury-time wonder-strikes. I can only think of three league wins that could be described as comfortable (Fulham & Leeds home, Bolton away). It's all a bit precarious.

As for Liverpool, their failure to meet their own targets is some consolation for this Bitter Blue. I suppose now that the pre-Xmas slump is an annual treat for all Anfieldphobes, it'll be panic stations next season if Liverpool aren't clear at the top by the end of October. Failure in the Cups and out of touch with the leaders and Houllier might go next January. There's an awful lot of talent there, it doesn't seem to be being marshalled terribly well. The Reds need a Moyes. Or an Allardyce!

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 11 May 2003 21:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

people say its the worthless cup and maybe it is, but it still was a nice day, it's still winning something

Has winning a trophy ever rung so hollow? Or losing one mattered so little?

James Ball (James Ball), Monday, 12 May 2003 08:02 (10 years ago) Permalink


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