yeah, yadier molina very much cannot take a walk either
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2021 21:10 (three years ago) link
It’s weird, right?
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 20 January 2021 21:11 (three years ago) link
it is, and it's excruciating to watch sometimes. but i wonder if that comes down to different styles of hitting. some players are "guess hitters", picking a certain kind of pitch or location, or walking up thinking "i'm going to swing full strength on the first pitch", or taking all the way. other guys are more about insanely fast judgments, pitch recognition, figuring it out in the moment.
yadi seems very much like the former, a guess hitter who is frequently betting on himself to swing first and figure it out
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2021 21:20 (three years ago) link
i think i remember yelich saying that he didn't "guess", and that it was all just quick reactions and pitch recognition for him
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 20 January 2021 21:21 (three years ago) link
I suppose when you’re catching, pitch recognition is meaningless when you know whats coming.
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 20 January 2021 22:25 (three years ago) link
New Rule for 2021: Catchers get to call their own pitches while at bat.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 20 January 2021 22:39 (three years ago) link
Obvious one, but Michael Brantley, having one of his best seasons ever at 34.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 15 June 2021 13:25 (two years ago) link
Might put José Ramírez first on the list. Relative to his accomplishments, you hear virtually nothing about him.
― clemenza, Sunday, 26 September 2021 13:12 (two years ago) link
good one. he’s also on an incredibly team-friendly contract
― mookieproof, Sunday, 26 September 2021 13:42 (two years ago) link
As points of comparison, think of how well publicized Kris Bryant and Anthony Rendon have been. A lot of that has to do with winning a WS title, and some, I'm sure, with Chicago/Washington/L.A. vs. Cleveland as media markets.
Ramirez (age-28 season): 34.2 bWAR/34.5 fWARBryant (29): 28.6/31.8Rendon (31): 32.2/36.1
Rendon is a couple of games ahead in fWAR with three extra years.
― clemenza, Sunday, 26 September 2021 15:05 (two years ago) link
Machado (age-28 season, 45.1/40.3) at another level in both performance and publicity, although much of his publicity has been bad.
― clemenza, Sunday, 26 September 2021 15:20 (two years ago) link
perhaps. bryant has won an mvp, tho.
and i don’t think rendon is actually well-publicized? he’s never even been the biggest star on his own teams
― mookieproof, Sunday, 26 September 2021 15:53 (two years ago) link
Forgot about the MVP. Rendon seemed to get a lot of (deserved) attention during Washington's WS run, and then a lot during his off-season free agency--or at least relative to Ramirez.
― clemenza, Sunday, 26 September 2021 15:57 (two years ago) link
hank greenberg.
only play 9 full seasons. lost most of 41-45 to ww2, bookended by a 7.7 fWAR 1940 and a 7.2 WAR 1946. career OBP of .412.
he has 61.1 career fWAR, which ranks only #115 in MLB history. but it was over only 1394 games. i think there is only one player in MLB history who has more fWAR over fewer games, and that's Mike Trout (1388 games and with 81.2 fWAR already)
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 13 September 2022 22:20 (one year ago) link
in terms of fewest games and greatest value, buster posey came close. 1371 games, 57.5 fWAR
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 13 September 2022 22:22 (one year ago) link
Jackie Robinson: 1382 games, 57.2 WARMookie Betts: 1093 games, 49.9 WAR
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 13 September 2022 22:23 (one year ago) link
I think this is the first Posnanski column in a while that's been sharable; hit 10 most underrated players ever.
https://open.substack.com/pub/joeposnanski/p/baseballs-most-underrated-players?r=1jtu0&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
― clemenza, Thursday, 5 January 2023 18:20 (one year ago) link
Haven't had a chance to wade through this yet; pretty exhaustive.
https://www.billjamesonline.com/the_most_underrated_players_of_all_time/
― clemenza, Thursday, 27 April 2023 22:26 (one year ago) link
Didn't realize that was the last of a three-part post. The numbers are explained in the first part, part II is the most overrated players. I think they're all free.
― clemenza, Thursday, 27 April 2023 22:32 (one year ago) link
brett butler was my favorite giant when I was like 6, very cool to see him on that list (I knew James was a fan)
― brimstead, Monday, 1 May 2023 18:32 (one year ago) link
BRENT
He was really good (it is Brett); just had the bad timing of playing in the shadow of the greatest leadoff hitter ever (Henderson) and maybe the second greatest (Raines).
― clemenza, Tuesday, 2 May 2023 12:59 (one year ago) link
Me being seduced by a middle infielder yet again...I think Marcus Semien may end the year at the margins of a HOF case. He's leading the AL in bWAR right now at 2.7, maybe headed for a 7.0 or 8.0 season, which at 33 would leave him with:
1) ~ 42 career WAR2) 200+ career HR3) the single-season HR record at 2B4) two top-3 MVP finishes, maybe a third this year
He'd have to keep playing somewhere between an All-Star- and MVP-level for another five years, but he could. As good as Chapman's been this year, hated losing him.
― clemenza, Thursday, 18 May 2023 19:33 (eleven months ago) link
he's a good player, but i would hesitate to call anyone on a $175m contract 'underrated'
several of these guys were good players toohttps://i.imgur.com/jgVZUmm.gif
― mookieproof, Friday, 19 May 2023 20:28 (eleven months ago) link
(xpost) When I think about underrated, I don't factor in salary, I think in terms of fans/writers/awards.
Posnanski last week: "José Ramírez just keeps on being José Ramírez (.286/.358/.500, 13 homers, 9 steals, good defense). Without him, these Guardians might not have scored a single run in the first half. I think Ramírez might just be the most underrated baseball player of this century, but I also think he’s going to end up in the Hall of Fame, so that will end his underratedness."
― clemenza, Wednesday, 12 July 2023 18:03 (nine months ago) link
When Ramirez does come up for the HOF many years down the road, I could see where the COVID season factors into a close call (like the strike of '94 may have hurt Cone and Key, and hurt McGriff with the writers). He finished second in MVP voting that year and was headed for his greatest season (pro-rated): 46 HR, 124 RBI, .292/.386/.607. (At least till this year, the winner that year, José Abreu, would have been my other most-underrated-of-the-century.)
― clemenza, Wednesday, 12 July 2023 18:14 (nine months ago) link
Came across Chris Bosio's name in connection to Immaculate Grid today--had forgotten about him. While I wouldn't say he was egregiously underrated, he did accumulate ~25 WAR for his career (with a couple of 5.0+ seasons), retiring at 34, without getting a single Cy Young vote. He may have been overshadowed by another underrated pitcher on his own team, Teddy Higuera, which sounds weird, I know.
― clemenza, Friday, 29 March 2024 18:45 (one month ago) link
I'd like to see a list of the most career WAR for pitchers who never got a Cy vote (and whose careers started no earlier than 1967, when they went to two awards).
― clemenza, Friday, 29 March 2024 18:48 (one month ago) link
Started for the Giants the year they went to the WS with Bonds https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hernali01.shtmlNever heard of him myself
― Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Friday, 29 March 2024 19:00 (one month ago) link
going down the list i'm seeing Tom Candiotti, Danny Darwin, Charlie Hough as the top 3. between the three of them they also had a sole All-Star game appearance (Hough, in 1986.)
scanning the list, there are a lot of guys who placed on the Cy ballots once but never again. Kevin Appier, for example, who had back-to-back seasons w/bWARs of 8.0(!) and 9.3(!!)
― omar little, Friday, 29 March 2024 19:00 (one month ago) link
I guess it'd be pretty easy to visually scan a WAR list and eliminate all the pitchers you 100% know got Cy votes. Livan was electric when the Mariners won in '97...two knuckleballers, not surprising--often underrated.
― clemenza, Friday, 29 March 2024 21:05 (one month ago) link
Marlins, that should read, not Mariners.
― clemenza, Friday, 29 March 2024 21:06 (one month ago) link
I just gave the Mariners their first-ever WS, then took it back eight seconds later.
― clemenza, Friday, 29 March 2024 21:07 (one month ago) link
Unfair when they’ve never even been 🥲
― Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Friday, 29 March 2024 21:16 (one month ago) link
Never heard of him myself― Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Friday, March 29, 2024 12:00 PM (two hours ago)
― Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Friday, March 29, 2024 12:00 PM (two hours ago)
many, many mentions of him on this board, including his own thread title:
iLIVAN!, John, and pray for a drenched lawn (the 2006 Nats thread)
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Friday, 29 March 2024 21:21 (one month ago) link
somebody needs to study their World Series MVPs
― felicity, Friday, 29 March 2024 21:28 (one month ago) link
Definitely 🫣
― Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Friday, 29 March 2024 22:01 (one month ago) link
Too soon for Steven Kwan? He got some attention early on but haven't heard much since. GGs and 9.0+ WAR in his first two seasons, solid on-base guy, high SB percentage, doubles and triples, leading the league in hitting and runs right now for the 9-3 Guardians.
― clemenza, Saturday, 13 April 2024 15:17 (three weeks ago) link
An outfielder who does a lot things well but doesn't hit HR is almost always going to be underrated.
― clemenza, Saturday, 13 April 2024 15:18 (three weeks ago) link
He played prep locally to me and I'd say he's underrated even by bay area folks.
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Saturday, 13 April 2024 15:47 (three weeks ago) link
Off to a heck of a start. Already two home runs (just 5 last year)
― FRAUDULENT STEAKS (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 13 April 2024 16:23 (three weeks ago) link
I think there's enough evidence now to mention Danny Jansen (by me too). He's injury-prone, but across six seasons and a bit, his pro-rated stats are good. Per 162 games:
26 HR, 77 RBI, walks and strikeouts average, .225/.310/.440, 3.4 WAR
His pre-season ranking in our fantasy league was #1,113. I don't know how he'd fare if he ever had a season where he played 140 games--he might just be effective as a part-time player.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 May 2024 18:04 (three days ago) link
Baseball savant backs you uphttps://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/danny-jansen-643376
― Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Friday, 3 May 2024 18:38 (three days ago) link
Holy cow--I need serious CliffsNotes there.
― clemenza, Friday, 3 May 2024 18:41 (three days ago) link
Watching the Dodgers series I definitely had the thought “whotf is this guy and why is he the best guy on the team?”
Then I googled Eric Soggard to check if they actually looked like each other or if they both just wore glasses. Turns out it was the second option
― H.P, Saturday, 4 May 2024 02:58 (two days ago) link