Joni Mitchell: Classic or Dud

I sometimes have a daydream that 10 years out of law school I'm the guy in Free Man in Paris.

I guess it's sort of weird to fantasize about being unhappy in your future job, but that's the kind of guy I am.

I think post-Blue Joni Mitchell and Steely Dan have been my big -- "Oh, there really is great music that you don't appreciate until you're older" discoveries.

She's got so much stuff going on in each song, so good, like if Kate Bush was a creepy old lady who made you eat dusty circus peanuts when you visited her house as opposed to K8 who would, I don't know, let you paint her dog or something.

Do you mean Joni is the creepy old lady?

yeah I do

ok so vh1 classic is airing/just aired something called "BBC Crown Jewels" that is a just pre-blue live show w/joni mitchell and i am all aflutter and stunned. jesus christ, what an amazing mind-blowing singer/writer/performer.

In an interview, says she is ill and "fighting for her life."

==================================
Sun: Are you working on anything right now? You say you're probably canning the idea of a box set, but are you working on a new record right now?
Mitchell: I'm very ill, I'm fighting for my life.
Grand-Maitre: We're talking about a new ballet maybe, eh, Joni?
Mitchell: Yeah. We intend to do another one. But I've been very ill, so mainly I'm just trying to survive.
Sun: Oh really? I didn't know that, sorry. How are you doing?
Mitchell: Well, nobody knows.
Grand-Maitre: Let's stick to the ballet, John, ah?
Sun: Sorry about that. So what's the new ballet?
Mitchell: We don't know yet.
==================================

What a disheartening exchange. "Let's stick to the ballet, John, ah?"...sure, Joni's dying, but let's talk about this ballet!

Yeah, and then she comes back to the "I'm dying" bit several times but it's like she's in a whole different conversation. (She also identifies her ailment as Morgellons -- the Wikipedia entry on this is seriously o_O ...)

wikipedia page doesn't sound fatal...?

this is very upsetting news!

hang in there joni

Jesus. Joni is one of those litmus tests for me, if you don't like (some of) her stuff, then I think you probably don't have a very developed sense of music. Especially her period from Clouds to Mingus, though she's had some wonderful stuff later. I was listening to Summer Lawns last night and was reminded of just how fantastic a songwriter she is, musically adventurous and lyrically evocative. There's still about a third of that album I'm ambivalent about, but I appreciate what she's doing. My favorite song on the album would have to be "Harry's House/Centerpiece", which is a song with another song in it. I used to be bothered by the emergence of the cover of "Centerpiece" in the middle of such a fantastic song as Harry's House, but I appreciate it more now; she segues into it in a musical breakdown equivalent of a flashback on television to signify the earlier era in a relationship blah blah blah I'm sorry, did I ramble on there?

Anyway. Classic.

Like a dragonfly on a tomb - Those lyrics paint such a clear and strong -albiet imagined on my part- picture of the corporate 70s

http://www.tvsquad.com/2011/02/22/tina-fey-joni-mitchell-song-paints-and-brushes/

Travelogue is so damn good, but for some reason it's overwhelmingly plaintive and sad and it becomes really difficult to listen to more than a few songs at once.

Travelogue always seemed better in my mind that in reality - whenever I put it on, I remember how corny it often sounds

http://www.tvsquad.com/2011/02/22/tina-fey-joni-mitchell-song-paints-and-brushes/

lol I totally missed this. awesome. "Saskatchewwaaaaaaaaan"

I heard “Woodstock” the song again the other day. I found it very sad, both her plaintive voice over that tense, minor-key melody and the childlike optimism of her lyrics, which I imagine would be burned alive by audiences if they were written today. The bombers turning into butterflies image, a lot of listeners today would find laughably naive, and there’s something of that song’s bare hopefulness lost to today’s reflexive cynicism, my own included, that I find depressing.

She does some of her spookiest background vocals on that song. I love 'em.

She tapes her regrets / To the microphone stand

oh man oh man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KyBdPeKHg

looool

oh look it's let's-revive-seventies-songwriters-threads day

it is? i was just listening to for the roses and was struck (again) by that line.

the song kills me btw

1. The completely unique sound she gets out of an acoustic guitar on "Blue". 'A Case Of You' = classic.

--That's because it's a dulcimer overdubbed over acoustic guitar.

i have been reluctant to listen beyond the 70s albums, but night ride home is great.

P4k's review of the new boxset. Pretty good piece, I think.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/17269-the-studio-albums-1968-1979/

Man, are we going to have to wait for her to peg-out before they can release the big 70's box set with all the juicy demos and unreleased songs that *must* be locked away? I've only ever heard the Blue era track 'Hunter' and the Demo's Of Summer Lawns bootleg and they are both ace.

I would assume she's been careful to destroy as much of the stuff she doesn't want released as she can, and good for her.

^^^ every artist shd torch everything they don't want some archive-grubber dragging out when they're dead

...bbbut the Summer Lawns demos are great.

Are you assuming she cares about such things, what's so henious about putting out unreleased material?

i get the urge to listen, i just have weird issues about people's wishes being posthumously ignored - where that's the case, not necessarily here

we've been over my very harsh take on this before. in the absence of explicit permission from the author/artist I don't think unpublished/unreleased stuff should be printed/released. I don't care how many great works the world would have to live without as a consequence, exhume Max Brod and piss on his bones, etc.

(And I'm a huge Joni Mitchell fan, probably no artist alive more important to me, but there's no way I'm listening to demos she didn't consent to having released, or engaging in idle speculation about whether she cares they're out there or not - she's tightly involved in her catalogue, if she wanted me to hear the demos they'd be on the box set. It doesn't matter how good they are, my pleasure isn't actually the most important thing in the universe.)

Yea that is harsh.

lol the part about how I think Max Brod can go hell is harsh. The part about "it's easy, don't listen to stuff a living artist didn't release through the channels readily available to her" is pretty easy. If she'd wanted to make it available, she could - when you grab stuff like that, you're essentially saying "as long as I myself am not the guy who a) stole it or b) broke trust with the artist, it's cool" - 100% not down with that, I've been on the other side of it, it sucks.

I guess I had a wishy-washy comeback about how she is a now a Legacy artist *ugh*, pretty much retired etc: Why not make the big sign-off-on-yr-past box set like Neil Young, but I know it really doesn't hold water.

I like bootlegs, live/studio whatever, always have done. I don't like that ugly, entitled attitude that many collectors share, but I do get the tingles when I know some artist I love is putting out a bunch of unreleased material. My other half works in the back catalogue dept of EMI and she deals with Bowie, who has a good attitude towards his archive, basically 'It wasn't good enough them, why would it be good enough to release now?', which I think the answer to which would be *cause I (the artist) have a massive tax bill/divorce settlement or am sitting here on my broke arse*

think it was borges who noted the ambiguity re: the kafka/brod situation - ie what was stopping kafka from destroying the manuscripts himself?

cos he thought he might want the stuff up to the point at which he was dead?

it is very hard to destroy your own stuff. you want to put it somewhere where nobody will ever see it, or have somebody else destroy it. or imagine magic scenarios where you did it & learned what you learned from it but then it's gone. but just speaking as a guy who now destroys his own stuff if I have even a second of "you know, I don't think I want people to hear this": it's just hard to destroy your own stuff. when you do it, it means that you, too, will not be able to hear/read it again; if you wanted to salvage a line or a phrase or a change from it, better have a good memory, because destroyed means destroyed. if you intend to keep working up to your last day, it's nicer to have anything you might still use lying around. ergo I don't find any ambiguity in the kafka situation. he asked a friend to do something he couldn't do himself, his friend betrayed him, the world sucks and people are awful, smoke weed every day

obv. I have ~~feelings~~ about this issue lol ok

i agree with you, a lot of writing etc. is junk writing that precedes true writing and people shouldn't have to show their working out if they don't want to.

xp aero, surely you could keep private copies for yourself?

record everything in code

In Moscow they canoodle on Leningradsky Prospekt, that sort of thing

xxp and make sure that any friends who could be your max brod die before you do.

Make real sure.

we live in a world of Max Brods now. destroy everything