Midnight Oil: Classic or G'dud!

I'll say this, when I saw them a couple of years ago they were as good as ever, so I blame the old man decision making behind the boring production/arrangements more than the capable old men themselves.

Their decisions stayed pretty consistently old-mannish boring in all those subsequent 30 years, right down to cogging for Insulationgate and being Rodriguez' backing band.

Disappointing political turns aside, I just saw the "1984" documentary and seems like a pretty good snapshot of the band that year. At the very least I learned that Peter Gifford occasionally played a Chapman stick in the band, underscoring their prog bona fides.

I also learned that they had to nail Rob Hirst's drum set to the stage.

Not surprised about Hirst; he was a monster, and at times he came across as a kind of proggy Grant Hart.

I was listening to their 1978 debut recently, and that last track ('Nothing Lost Nothing Gained') is totally prog.

Not surprised about Hirst; he was a monster, and at times he came across as a kind of proggy Grant Hart.

Good comparison. I got to see MO back in the late 80s and Hirst was easily the key person to their sound. Even on the slower songs, his veins wanted to explode out of his skin.

key person to their sound

And the main songwriter!

We’re grieving the loss of our brother Bones Hillman, who has passed away at his home in Milwaukee today after a cancer battle. He was the bassist with the beautiful voice, the band member with the wicked sense of humour, and our brilliant musical comrade.

Bones joined Midnight Oil way back in 1987 after stints in various Kiwi bands, most notably, The Swingers. He played and sang on every Midnight Oil recording since Blue Sky Mining and we did thousands of gigs together.

We will deeply miss our dear friend and companion and we send our sincerest sympathies to Denise, who has been a tower of strength for him.

Haere rā Bonesy from Jim, Martin, Peter & Rob.

Wow. He was a great bass player. I had no idea he lived in Milwaukee! All these surprising sidemen live or lived in Milwaukee. Bones, Clyde Stubblefield, Hal Blaine, Daryl Stuermer ...

oh thats v sad

RIP Bonesy

I had no idea he lived in Milwaukee!

That may have been quite recent - he was living and playing in Nashville for most of the 21st century, AIUI

That's what I thought, too. I guess it's not too far a flight.

I have strongly disliked "Beds are burning" and the song that goes "and that will naht be BROOHHH-Ken" from the instant I heard them. but from the the instant I heard "The Best of Both Worlds," in 1985 I thought it was an edge of mayhem, about to blow off of the deck into the eye of the hurricane-style recording common in 1982 to Alternative Tentacles or SST and not at all to major labels. And yet I never fucked with them until now.

I am listening to 10, 9, 8… and I am in particular impressed with "Scream In Blue," and I do think this is good balance between cool production and capturing a good performance… and… maybe I've missed out? What else do I need to listen to? And I don't have a really good handle as to where they were coming from…they were too old to be inspired by punk…I don't heard what the antecedents would be… the Who? Who else? And would the likes of Nick Cave look down on them?

10,9,8... and Red Sails in the Sunset, its successor, are my favorites, so those two. Best of Both Worlds is on RSitS, fwiw, as is Kosciusko, When the Generals Talk, Minutes to Midnight, etc - really, chock full of goodness.

If you don't like the tracks off Diesel and Dust, think you might not vibe with the run from DaD > Blue Sky Mining > Earth & Sun & Moon, but I like them. After that, they lessen the polish on Breathe > Redneck Wonderland > Capricornia. A sampling of tracks off those would tell you if you'd dig them.

The first three (Midnight Oil > Head Injuries > Place Without a Postcard) are rougher, with some gems, but more like a band finding the feet that it gets on 10,9,8... Somewhat like early 'mats vs later, or the first few Tragically Hip vs. their later albums.

I like The Makarrata Project (their latest, with guest vocalists), esp. the Alice Skye track.

"The rich get richer, the poor get the picture, the bombs never hit ya when you're down so low" is a lyric that's come to mind a lot during the last four years.

I can see some looking down on them for being corny, or being sell-outs, or meaningless stuff like that. But musically the band was pretty top-notch. There was a backhanded compliment that Christgau used that I've always liked:

Figures that a major-label, major-management band expressly obsessed with nuclear holocaust and man's inhumanity to man should smell slightly progressive, which I do not use in the lefty sense.

So I'd say after "10-1" I'd listen to "Red Sails in the Sunset" (if you haven't), but don't ignore "Diesel and Dust," which is a great album, imo. Xgau is even more snide and cynical in his review of that one, but this time he gives it a B+. "Beds are Burning" is the first track, so if you do hate it it's easy to skip, though it does throw off the impeccable sequencing.

When in doubt you can't go wrong with the Oils on Water concert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dV6vbb1YqI

The band was super talented and ridiculously tight, with Rob Hirst a near peerless percussionist whose drums had to be nailed down to the stage.

Like, there are only the faintest of similarities, but this performance reminds of me Fugazi, of all things.

I can see that comparison, actually!

I love this band

I did happen to watch this vid last night, and I immediately thought if that was shot even two or three years later, the crowd wouldn't be passively taking it in, a head nod or two, as they are here… it would be BEDLAM… watching Garrett here and elsewhere puts me in the mind of Jello…

What else do I need to listen to? And I don't have a really good handle as to where they were coming from…they were too old to be inspired by punk…

Saints first single came out over a year before the Oils recorded their first album tbf, but they probably got loud and fast mainly through a) being young and b) trying to grab the attention of drinkers.

10 to 1 is their second-best and second-most interesting album; as everyone else says, Red Sails is the best and most. After that, the Species Deceases EP is the same type of super-tight songwriting and incredibly clean production, but solely on fast rock songs.

(Weirdly for this switch to a more straight-ahead record, it was produced with François Kevorkian - Nick Launay did the previous two albums.)

Rob Hirst a near peerless percussionist

NB to vm: they're one of those bands where everyone writes at least a bit, sometimes with other members, but Hirst is one of the two main songwriters (vying with the lead guitarist; Garrett is in a distant third, sometimes contributing to the others' songs).

OK, then: so if Garrett ia distant third in the band as a songwriter, is he the leftist of the band, and the rest of the guys are kinda "we're okay that shit, but he's the one that goes to the mat"; like one of the times I interviewed Tom Morello, I asked him "you and Zach have these beliefs, and they are the raison detre of the band; do the mopes in yr rhythm section care about leftist principles?" He answered noncommitaly that they did, but he clearly didn't like the question and wanted to move onto something else…

I don't heard what the antecedents would be… the Who?

I'm with the consensus on 10, 9, 8 ... and Red Sails, both terrific and unpredictable records. I like Diesel and Dust and Blue Sky Mining fine, but those earlier two are the ones I listen to when I want to hear them. (Which is not that often, but I'm always happy when I do.) I have never gone back to the pre-10,9,8 albums.

Plenty of leftist lyrics in Hirst's not-Garrett-cowritten songs, and he even sings lead on When The Generals Talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNL3xhxGpK8

I felt that after 10-1 and Red Sails, they kind of fell off a cliff

SPE. CIES. DE. CEA. SES.

(Diesel & Dust totally goes, but Blue Sky Mining was "what if Diesel & Dust but boring?" so tainted it retroactively.)

I know, I keep forgetting about Species Deceases. Also Bird Noises.

I never gave this band a good listen until now. I don't even think I listened to any Australian bands the last time I checked them out, and that feels relevant given how topical their best music can be. For example, one of my favorite Paul Kelly songs, "From Little Things Big Things Grow," doubles as a history lesson on the Gurindji strike - an extraordinary story that became my gateway into the history of Aboriginal Australians. It won't change whether or not you like Midnight Oil, but I'm sure some of their songs won't feel as sharp if the context is completely lost.

Anyway, I just went through 10,9,8,7... and Diesel and Dust. 10,9,8,7... isn't bad but it didn't really do anything for me musically speaking. However I liked Diesel and Dust quite a bit, including "Beds Are Burning" (which I never hear played anywhere, even though it's supposed to be the "hit"). It's stunning how much of the album deals with Aboriginal land rights, and it does so without feeling limited or monotonous - just the opposite.

Both albums sound very different though, and there's something about the latter that feels like it's more accessible to anyone with a taste for mainstream American rock while the former sounds a bit more daring - I'd normally favor that, but on a basic level the songwriting on Diesel and Dust feels more engaging.

Looks like I gave my opinion on this thread back in '03 and it still holds. If anything, I enjoy Diesel and Dust more now (not a track I don't like). The next two albums are weaker versions of it with some moments that work. I've had 18 years to listen to their pre-Diesel albums and still haven't done it - time to remedy that!

Yeah, I think "Diesel and Dust" is start-to-finish great, and definitely more accessible. Aside from the singing it's even sometimes hard to believe it's the same band, and in that regard it reminds me of (in concept) "Laid" by James, a concerted but successful decision to strip things down and back and focus even more strictly on songs. The previous Midnight Oil albums are so full of ideas, not least because the prog-like approach and context didn't force them to discard any of them. Usually for the best, since those albums are rad, but I think there was no good next step further in that direction. Downshifting was inevitable, and D&D was a great example of a band doing so at its peak, not when it ran out of ideas or steam or suffered some setback or failure.

FWIW, I like "Earth and Sun and Moon" better than "Blue Sky Mining." The latter is so sterile and over-considered, the former is a bit looser and more organically band-in-a-room. Both albums have some great songs on it, but "Earth" delivers them better, imo.

I also prefer the more organic sound of E&S&M to the one on BSM, but I don't recall liking one album much more than the other. it's been years since I listened to either though

I haven't listened to Blue Sky Mining in ages, either. I remember liking it well enough, and I do like the title track (the only thing that sticks in my head at the moment). But all the dismissals of it itt make me wonder how it would hold up if I listen again. My sense of liking it is also related to having seen them play on the BSM tour, and they were really good.

I really liked Midnight Oil in like 7th-9th gr. I had Diesel & Dust + bought Blue Sky Mining the day it came out! I loved everything about both of those albums and revisited both recently. I hadn't listened to either in aaaaaages and it was a fun time capsule. My memories of being a little righteous crusader all came back. I never really got into the band beyond those albums.

This thread title always literally makes me lol bc I picture someone posting simply "G'dud"and that's funny.

I can't remember now if I became aware of them circa Diesel & Dust or if I had Red Sails in the Sunset first, but I definitely liked Red Sails more.

i definitely only became aware once they had a big single. they probably became uncool because kids like me liked them lol

A friend of mine grew up in Perth and told me that Midnight Oil was so huge in Australia in the '80s that you could literally stop a random person on the street and sing, "US forces give the nod" and they'd immediately respond, "it's a setback for your country." I have no idea how true that is, but I've always wanted to go to Australia to test it out and/or make a fool of myself.

Playing Diesel & Dust, I'd forgotten that I bought a bullroarer because of this album. Will have to search that out, if I still have it.

they were really smart to go pop because I've been listening to their cool early stuff and they were a mediocre post punk band

XXP: That's probably not too far off the mark, Tarfumes. I'd not be surprised if tracks from the first half of the 80s ("Armistice Day", "US Forces", "Short Memory", "When the Generals Talk", "Power and the Passion", etc) are *still* prominent rock radio fixtures in Aus. Possibly more so than later stuff?!? They certainly were when I was last force-fed daytime commercial radio in the workplace.

growing up in Oz, the Oils were pretty ubiquitous. it wasnt really a question of liking them or not, everyone sort of accepted them as decent? some ppl prob found them annoying maybe idk.

the question was more if you were INTO them.
i know in high school the ppl who were super into the Oils were mostly dorky farm boys

i don’t think i fully got their impact until i was at university and the relevance of their message became much more clear - but i still dont know if i fully appreciated them musically etc wholly until my 20’s

when a band is THAT ubiquitous it takes a long time to critically assess them on their own merits imo

How popular were Paul Kelly and the Go-Betweens back in the day? In the U.S. they remain more or less critical favorites with a small but devoted cult following. I always wondered if they did that well in Australia - it wouldn't seem logical for a local artist struggling for a hit in Australia to get major label distribution in America, but I could be wrong.

Paul Kelly had the same ubiquity — was very well known & most everbody knew his music just from radio etc

again - the question was *how* into his music you were, not whether you were into him at all

GoBetweens for me was a bit different - i knew Cattle and Cane but not much else until i started hanging out w cool ppl at university
they didnt the same kind of broad radio play where i grew up (country town, limited to commercial radio for a long time until the broadcast strenth of indie radio improved in early-mid 90’s

and to guard against sicbot corrections
talking abt personal experience in rural victoria, i am not speaking for country as a whole

when a band is THAT ubiquitous it takes a long time to critically assess them on their own merits imo

That all sounds like growing up with the ubiquity of Springsteen in the US in the ‘80s. At a certain point — years, or maybe decades later — those who generally accepted him, but weren’t necessarily fans, stopped and said, “wait, WHY is he so beloved? I should look into that.” And I think the Spin piece in 1985 called the Oils the Australian equivalent of Springsteen.

The Midnight Oil 1984 documentary was tremendously illuminating in terms of their politics/convictions. But that’s where the Springsteen comparison falls apart: Reagan mentioning Bruce in an ‘84 campaign speech was strange: a president is using a rock star to woo voters?! The idea of Springsteen running for office, as Garrett did, at any level would’ve been utterly bizarre and unthinkable.

yeah Springsteen comparison re Oils’ ubiquity in Australia is a really good example.

i think with Garret at some point we all just assumed he’d run for political office eventually, it was mors just a question of when lol

*more

if we can just play "ask vg how popular bands were in australia", how about Little River Band

VERY