Dave Matthews Band : Name Your Reasons Why They Are So Bad & Hated.

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see one problem with dmb for me, is unlike alot of their peers who had at least one element I could buy into wholeheartedly no matter what I thought of the whole (Spin Doctors' drummer, Darius Rucker's voice - I'm a sucker for baritones, same weakness with Pearl Jam), dmb don't have any one particular guy about whom I can say 'damn, this song might suck but that one muhfuh can ______!' < /rayburn>. I'm generally looking for cheap thrills, and if I can manage selective hearing well enough to enjoy !!! despite the vocals I could probably figure out a way to enjoy dmb, if there was something for my ear to latch onto.

James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 14 June 2003 01:53 (twenty years ago) link

alison, essentially you did the exact thing against Linkin Park as was done against DMB, ie, you said 'I don't care for X and Y and linkin park does X and Y'. It seems as if an arguement is only 'rational' to you if you agree with it.

oops (Oops), Saturday, 14 June 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link

She said the reasons and explained why she didn't like them because of those reasons. That was her point if you weren't paying attention. Everyone else's reasons were "they're boring, dont like dave's voice, or they dont have enthuisiasm on stage."
Their bass player does have solos and parts in songs where he gets "ill". They do take risks, just not as much music wise as it is timing and tempo. There is always a HUGE possibility of someone majorly screwing up since they play different sets, and often different versions of a song every concert...but they don't. There's just another example of someone talking about what what they dont know.

paige, Saturday, 14 June 2003 10:25 (twenty years ago) link

''Everyone else's reasons were "they're boring, dont like dave's voice, or they dont have enthuisiasm on stage."''

have you actually read dan's post?

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 14 June 2003 11:29 (twenty years ago) link

Their bass player does have solos and parts in songs where he gets "ill".

Point me at a song.

They do take risks, just not as much music wise as it is timing and tempo.

Point me at a song.

Clearly I'm not going to take your word for anything because I heard their first two albums and was not impressed enough to pursue them any further, largely because of the reasons I listed.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 14 June 2003 12:18 (twenty years ago) link

- I've never heard them let their bass player get seriously ill. Given how great I think their bass player might be, this is criminal

Dan, no lie, that's a beautiful piece of criticism right there.

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 14 June 2003 13:19 (twenty years ago) link

Their bass player does have solos and parts in songs where he gets "ill".
By the way, I suspect he doesn't mean getting "violently" ill. (Y'know, like the listeners.)

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 14 June 2003 17:11 (twenty years ago) link

oh come on now that's just silly

dave q, Saturday, 14 June 2003 17:34 (twenty years ago) link

If you can acquire any live show that wasn't recorded for a DVD or CD and commercially sold, even if you scuttle haphazardly through songs, I'm confident that you will detect songs that demonstrate these qualities.  I'll get back to you on specific songs since I don't have my recordings at hand.
You do understand that, fundamentlly, you are saying violins don't merge well with woodwinds?  And you realize that there are about 102 million composers that wouldn't be in accord with that statement?  Just warning you...in case you get mugged by an individual clenching a baton, that may be their rationale.
I still can't grasp that people are so critical of such an eminent style music that they have no perception or knowledge of beyond that of a few CD's, singles, or unfounded information from unreliable sources.

allison, Saturday, 14 June 2003 19:58 (twenty years ago) link

like your Linkin Park review?

James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 14 June 2003 20:01 (twenty years ago) link

I still can't grasp that people are so critical of such an eminent style music that they have no perception or knowledge of beyond that of a few CD's, singles, or unfounded information from unreliable sources.

Should it require more than a few CDs and singles to form an opinion of this band? If their readily available material (presumably the music the band felt most satisfied with to represent them) fails to create a favorable impression, why do you have such a seemingly damn hard time fathoming how -- for even a nanosecond -- that you may actually indeed be mistaken in your assertion that the DMB's music is anything other than bog-fucking-standard?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 14 June 2003 20:07 (twenty years ago) link

cuz, unlike other bands (eg. linkin park), dmb require a thourough, constant, and complete familiarity with their music before you can begin to question their greatness (with the catch 22 being if you question dmb's greatness you haven't listened to 'enough' dmb).

James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 14 June 2003 20:20 (twenty years ago) link

Allison hurrah for you for fighting for the band you love! I mean that and am not being sarcastic. I do think, though, that James and Alex have a point: how much DMB does a person need to have heard before it's fair to say that he's got a reasonable understanding of their sound? I think it's a little silly to say "you haven't heard all their music" as if that were a good dismissal of criticism. Think of music that you think is ass: have you heard everything by the bands you think of as some seriously suck-ass bands, or do you hear at most an album or two and go "yeesh! shit sandwiches!"

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Saturday, 14 June 2003 20:29 (twenty years ago) link

No sir, I've drudged through a linkin park concert. My review was actually munificent when compared to what they produce. Honestly...do you think they deserve the praise they get?
I never said you have to hear everything in order to have an opinion of them, and I don't appreciate the amplification of every statement I make. AGAIN, I will say it. Listening to a band and determining that you do not like them is one thing. Criticising the band for technical, lyrical, or any other intangible factors when you aren't entirely informed is a totally different animal.
I can't argue if you just don't like them, it's your right to form an opinion. I'm not fond of a lot of bands, but if I haven't experienced them in their entirety then I do not pass jugement on them...particularly to their fans who obviously know more about them that I do.
I don't remember (and don't care to look) who posted earlier about the basic chord progression or something reminiscent of their compositions being musically undemanding or challenging. I've played guitar since I was 7 and I'm now a senior in college, majoring in music performance. There are still some of his riffs and chord changes that I still can't refine as well as he does. Some aspects of their music are simple, but that's to be expected when you take into account that they are typically a touring band.

Allison, Saturday, 14 June 2003 21:16 (twenty years ago) link

I don't appreciate the amplification of every statement I make.

If you're not going to stand by statements, might I suggest you reconsider making them in the first place. What else have we to go on other than your own words in this debate?

At the very least, I think we can all safely, heartily and cheerily agree that Linkin Park suck from a big, greasy bag of cock, right?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 14 June 2003 21:31 (twenty years ago) link

I like that "In The End" song. Needs to be a bit more Depeche Mode, though. (I will still take it over any DMB any day.)

I don't appreciate the amplification of every statement I make

Understood, but I think this is happening because you're not answering a lot of specific questions in turn. Dan, for instance, has brought up a lot that you're not apparently dealing with. Saying that you're not being understood or that you're being treated too harshly when you're not willing to engage further with what's asked is a bit of a problem -- especially if you're so single-mindedly focused on getting US to engage further with a band you like. It goes both ways.

Criticising the band for technical, lyrical, or any other intangible factors when you aren't entirely informed is a totally different animal

If people are getting annoyed with the band BECAUSE of something technical, lyrical, etc. and say so, what more do you want? It can't be intangible if it is there and they're pointing to it.

I'm not fond of a lot of bands, but if I haven't experienced them in their entirety then I do not pass jugement on them

If you aren't fond of a band you have passed a judgment. It may be a temporary one or may be one that you are wanting to note is something based on only a few things that you've heard, but it's still a judgment.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 14 June 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link

eg. Linkin Park

James Blount (James Blount), Saturday, 14 June 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link

I'm tired of being articulate...hope no one minds that I return to my apathetic ways.
Because they openly said that they haven't listened to much more than just those couple CD's. Say your favorite band is...Backsteet boys (we all know it is) and people are going on about how awful they are, and also say that they've only heard one of their albums and the commercialized crap they see on TV. Now, you know they're much better than just the mercantile mainstream band they're made out to be, but no one will actually listen to anything else because they just form impervious opinions and suddenly become all knowing on the subject after listening to that one CD. Do you let them go on their poorly informed ways so they can infect others minds with fictitious information, or do you charge them with being tenuous then try to help them give the band their well deserved respect?
People aren't pointing to anything. I've yet to hear a specific example or song (that I can remember...prove me wrong if you can) that can't be argued by taste (other than Dave's voice which I will admit can be a bit tense at times) BECAUSE the amount of their music the majority has heard is very marginal.

Allison, Saturday, 14 June 2003 22:44 (twenty years ago) link

I don't need to eat a whole shit sandwich to know I don't like shit.

oops (Oops), Saturday, 14 June 2003 22:48 (twenty years ago) link

It's like talking to a wall!

J (Jay), Saturday, 14 June 2003 23:15 (twenty years ago) link

But... what if that shit sandwich has cream filling in the middle and you won't know unless you eat a little more.

Your mom's a wall.

Allison, Saturday, 14 June 2003 23:17 (twenty years ago) link

The tenacity of the DMB fan is a thing of wonder: let no one here argue this point.

Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Saturday, 14 June 2003 23:22 (twenty years ago) link

(No, really, *please* don't argue it. We'll be here all week.)

Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Saturday, 14 June 2003 23:22 (twenty years ago) link

This thread is caught in a loop.

My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Saturday, 14 June 2003 23:26 (twenty years ago) link

can this just be dropped please?

H (Heruy), Saturday, 14 June 2003 23:35 (twenty years ago) link

Sure...I'm bored now though. Going to give me something else to talk about?

allison, Sunday, 15 June 2003 00:19 (twenty years ago) link

See the other threads!

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Sunday, 15 June 2003 00:33 (twenty years ago) link

nah =) I've grown quite fond of this one, tanks.

Allison, Sunday, 15 June 2003 00:37 (twenty years ago) link

Your mom's a wall.

Best comeback evah.

J (Jay), Sunday, 15 June 2003 10:52 (twenty years ago) link

I gotta agree with J; I'm still giggling at that one.

I did not say that violins and woodwinds can never be in tune with each other. I sing with the Boston Symphony; I hear violins and woodwinds in tune on a regular basis. What I said was that their violin player's timbre (which more often than not sounds like Irish fiddle) doesn't match well with the saxophone. It's a "unique" sound that never really rings, gels or clicks.

I'd also like to note that you STILL haven't pointed me at any specific songs.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 15 June 2003 12:37 (twenty years ago) link

"- The fiddle-timbre of the violin grates against the horns, making it nigh-impossible for them to play in tune together." hmm..hate to argue, but you did say they couldn't play in tune.
Songs that show you what? Can't remember what the criteria were, refresh my memory please?

allison, Sunday, 15 June 2003 13:41 (twenty years ago) link

Quick question for the sake of perspective, Allison.....what other music do you enjoy?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 15 June 2003 15:45 (twenty years ago) link

I've posted that twice..but I'll do it again. I like Tom Petty, The Cure, The Misfits, Rush, Plaid, Roadhaven, Bob Marley, Queens of the Stone Age, and Fury Monk to name a few. Although I'm not as obsessed as you, I do like Killing Joke. I'm a very firm believer that Jaz is God. Or...a least the second coming of christ.

Allison, Sunday, 15 June 2003 16:20 (twenty years ago) link

love connection!

James Blount (James Blount), Sunday, 15 June 2003 19:33 (twenty years ago) link

we'll be back in 2 and 2

oops (Oops), Sunday, 15 June 2003 19:53 (twenty years ago) link

uh...what about 2's? Did I miss somethin?

Allison, Sunday, 15 June 2003 23:28 (twenty years ago) link

You cannot compare Dave Matthews with the majesty of Yes or Rush.

The Atomic Rooster, Monday, 16 June 2003 00:10 (twenty years ago) link

Allison: it's about beats. Ask your drummer.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 16 June 2003 00:12 (twenty years ago) link

Who's comparing. I like DMB for an entirely different reason than I like the rest of those bands. I hate my drummer..I'd much rather you explain, please =)

Allison, Monday, 16 June 2003 00:15 (twenty years ago) link

A quick and dirty lesson about time signatures -- all others can throw in here as they like.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 16 June 2003 00:19 (twenty years ago) link

What's this in reference to?

Allison, Monday, 16 June 2003 00:32 (twenty years ago) link

Allison is a red herring.

Jon Williams (ex machina), Monday, 16 June 2003 02:08 (twenty years ago) link

Either that or is willfully stupid. I'd like to not assume the latter.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 16 June 2003 02:11 (twenty years ago) link

hmm..hate to argue, but you did say they couldn't play in tune.

I said that Dave Matthews Band rarely plays in tune. I didn't say it was impossible to tune woodwinds. And really, it's only the songs where they really feature the fiddle and horns playing together that it really grates on my ears.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 16 June 2003 02:30 (twenty years ago) link

800.

The name comes from the name of a song, One Sweet World, performed by the Dave Matthews Band (who they?).

http://www.ciao.co.uk/Ben_Jerrys_One_Sweet_Whirled__Review_5314913

disco stu (disco stu), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:21 (twenty years ago) link

how come an IP search for allison turns up many many posts for one mr DAN PERRY? eh? EH???

jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:23 (twenty years ago) link

Dan Perry in sexually-confused DMB Tyler Durden shocker

Millar (Millar), Monday, 16 June 2003 03:35 (twenty years ago) link

But... what if that shit sandwich has cream filling in the middle and you won't know unless you eat a little more.

This may be the best reply I've ever gotten.

oops (Oops), Monday, 16 June 2003 06:10 (twenty years ago) link

The first rule of DMB Club is that you don't talk about DMB club.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 16 June 2003 12:23 (twenty years ago) link

I know about time signatures...music major, remember. I'm just wondering why you posted it. Also wondering if I should be offended by the "willfully stupid" comment... (here's where I'd post a picture of myself looking confused, but since I'm computer illiterate and no one wants to tell me how to do it =P)

Allison, Monday, 16 June 2003 12:36 (twenty years ago) link


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