show etiquette

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

(I will also gladly move if asked -- i.e., to make room for someone's friend -- though the strategy seems to work out well.)

Second row or stay home

Yah - there's goofs at shows when I stake a spot (9x outta ten, I'm just looking for best venue sound). I tend to not let it bug me much, but I'd be liar if I didn't say that there's just certain bands I don't see anymore. Sometimes it helps me when I say to a goof, 'hey, I'm recording the show, gimme yr email and I'll make sure ya get a link to torrent or cloud sharing solution' - & that usually chills things out a bit.

the last time I was in a prime show watching spot was because friends wanted to stake out a place so we were upstairs against the railing (terminal 5, terrible venue in ny) and it was humid as shit (august), sold out (pj harvey)and i just had people pressed up against my back the entire night trying to burrow their way past me. It sucked so bad.

i have the claustrophobia thing as well as the fire thing, so my desirable spots are never near the front (unless the crowd is sparse, which is fairly common).

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020 8:13 PM bookmarkflaglink

(I will also gladly move if asked -- i.e., to make room for someone's friend -- though the strategy seems to work out well.)

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020 8:14 PM bookmarkflaglink

Yea if i am choosing a spot i will typically scan behind me to see who i am standing in front of since i'm tall. I will move over if someone shorter than me is behind me. Sometimes unavoidable but generally I'm a hippie at shows, i just wamt everyone to have fun

Our House of Blues i swear gets oversold. I went to see Meshuggah one night on a Monday, nowhere near sold out, had a blast. Next night, Bad Religion sells the place out. I went onto the floor, all the way to the back.

Once the pit opened up, i couldn't flinch without making physical contact with someone. People's heads brushing my adam's apple, a few accidental head bumps.

I started breathing heavy and then found a spot that opened up when some people vacated the floor so i could at least breathe.

I hate HoB. Even the one in Vegas has the same shitty layout

I'm with J0rdan's original post.

I am sick of being in a good spot watching the music only to hear the loud conversation cut through from people on both sides.

Like why are you even here

I'm a tall guy -- my thing is to choose a spot early (around 1/3 of the way back), leaving plenty of time & room for shorter folks to fill in between me & the stage.

― dad genes (morrisp), Wednesday, January 22, 2020

The last show I was at (Liz Phair) was seated, and I was up front (lucky!)… everyone stood when she started playing, and so I did too… but I was super self-conscious about blocking the view of folks behind me. So I sort of stood awkwardly “sideways” most the show, facing the dude to my right, in an effort to minimize my effective surface area. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(I was in the 2nd row; so if I didn’t stand, I’d be looking the whole time at the butt of the guy who had the front-row center seat.)

the worst 'neighbor' i ever had at a show was at Pulp in i think 1998 (they were touring This is Hardcore). i was lukewarm on the band even then, but being 14 years old my friend and i staked out spots in the front early on. He spent the time grabbing random women by the arm and helping them towards the front (i.e. in front of us), sitting on the floor and setting fire to any litter he could find with his lighter and, towards the end of the show, grabbing the left shoe off my foot and hurling it into the middle of the crowd. I had to wait until the room cleared out to find it. The guy was like the same age i am now.

xpost was it a good butt?

I always--always--end up close to the woman with the most piercing voice in the venue.

I don't mind people acting enthusiastically for the show (as long as you're not bowling me over as a result of your enthusiasm). but like...look, there are tons of bands on any bill I'm not there to see, some I hate. if I have shit to talk about the band or am completely disinterested and want to talk to my friends, I go outside. where I can hear, for one, and where I won't be shouting over the music and ruin something else's time.

any time I'm at any show to see someone that isn't the headliner at this one particular venue, I have to deal with people dicking around in very loud, distracting ways. the other night I would have moved but unfortunately where I was standing was the best available sight-line combined with best area for sound (this venue is very spotty). wanted to be stubborn and say "why should I move, I was here first and shouldn't have to".

I did see something at a show once where this fan was standing near the back, near the merch area, and he was texting, and it was an opening band, and the bass player in the band pointed at him, pantomimed texting with his hands, and flipped off the fan. then when the fan looked confused, did it again. all while still somehow playing the bass. in fan's defense, this was a sprawlingly large venue and he was very far away from the stage and wasn't actually watching the show or obstructing anybody for doing so, but it was hilarious

Um … fuck that bass player, I suppose. (Or don’t.)

When you’re playing a set on stage, who has time to care about something like that?!? Weird.

Yeah, that comes across very entitled and self-important to me. Would the musician have acted the same way if someone in the audience were writing in a notebook?

I saw Jeff Tweedy once call out people for holding their phones at a Wilco show.

Roger Waters has a voiceover tell the entire crowd to 'fuck off' right at the beginning of his show nowadays.

Lol yea I heard that last show

Pleasant fellow

What the message actually says is "if you like Pink Floyd but not Roger Waters' politics then you can fuck off to the bar." Which I think is something well worth saying.

Long show review whose structuring “hook” is the band berating the crowd for a lack of enthusiasm: https://racketmn.com/this-is-the-last-sleater-kinney-show-ill-ever-review

Oh yeah, saw that review by a former ilxor. Not a good look from Brownstein imho, although it might have been more gentle than "berating"

I’d never been called “tepid” quite so gently in all my life. Granted, Carrie Brownstein hadn’t directed her comment at me specifically; you might even say that I (notebook, pen, working, etc.) had something of an excuse for not exactly kickin’ up my heels, more so than the many paying customers nodding in subdued approbation for Sleater-Kinney at St. Paul's Palace Theatre on Saturday night.

Not that any of them—any of us—had some obligation to go crazy out there, as the singer/guitarist acknowledged even as she noted what she more euphemistically called our “shyness.” When she thanked us “for bringing whatever version of yourself here that you could tonight,” it came off as a genuine (if a tinge Portlandic) attempt to meet a reserved Minnesota audience where they stood.

although it might have been more gentle than "berating"

Yeah maybe I should’ve said “chiding”

It’s funny bc when we saw the Breeders recently, the crowd was very tepid. I just chalked it up to “tired Gen Xers,” but the crowd for Liz Phair at the same venue was much more lit.

My wife saw Madonna recently (much larger venue), and she said the crowd’s energy collapsed as soon as Madonna came onstage, in a weird way…

I was at the S-K show, "chiding" would still be far too strong

My thesaurus is coming up empty for synonyms of criticism milder than chiding, perhaps Sleater-Kinney are admitting that they themselves are the problem?

it's just a different vibe with MN audiences

I’ve seen plenty of shows in NYC where the crowd is just standing still. Esp for these older bands, are they expecting moshing?

xpost I just saw Unwound in Jersey City on Sunday and was in maybe the most violent mosh pit I've ever seen first hand. I think part of what made it terrifying was that so much of Unwound's whole thing is that many of their songs go from thrashing to more mellow passages very suddenly and then during the mellow parts I would forget that I was still in the pit and then I'd get my bones crunched as the more serious fans were ready to pounce the moment the band went back to thrashing. Super fun show and they played lights out.

On the note of show etiquette, there was an older couple that moved near the pit about halfway through the set (there was at least one older couple in the pit and they were having a blast) and the husband was being really standoffish towards the younger punks who were just having fun. The band played For Your Entertainment to close out the set and the pit opened up for the start of the song. The husband stood defiantly in the middle, refusing to clear out and kind of looked around daring everyone else to do something about it. Then he tried to fight one of the younger punks when the pit closed, but people pulled them away from each other and the old dude left.

I get not wanting to be in a mosh pit, but he very literally walked right into it.

Maybe Sleater-Kinney did expect moshing!

Standing on the edge of a mosh pit and getting pushed in classic or dud

We used to call that area on the edge of the pit the loony line, as you'd have to be a lunatic to stand there. Further forward of course you'd get the stagedivers landing on your head and giving you neck compressions. These days I prefer a nice comfy seat tbh.

how loony do you have to be to want to see a show without getting groped or kicked or injured?
mosh pits are a gigantic dud and always have been imo. same for crowd surfing or anything that puts bodies and hands into contact with each other.

unless it is a hi 5, that is ok

lech otm.

discussion here+on the sleater kinney topic reminded me when i intervened between two drunken souls the time we saw the sea+cake...

drunken soul #1 was being annoying since the opener. i won't run down all of their bullshit, but my patience was being tested. i was not the only one.

drunken soul #2 had reached their breaking point. unfortunately, they did a silly thing and flipped ds1's ballcap off their head. ds1 said some very violent things in a very violent way. nothing physical, but it was escalting. i was about 5 feet away+decided to speak up.

"GENTLEMAN. the happiest band in the world, who both of you paid money to see, is right there (points at stage)."

moment of clarity? idk, but ds2 walked away (with assistance from their friends).

big sigh. it was during "crossing line."

no, there was no "pit" at this show. it was the sea+cake ffs.

only time I was in a mosh pit was during Andrew WK, the people were super nice and picked up everyone who got knocked over. I imagine most mosh pits aren't like that

every mosh pit I've ever been in has been like that.

that's the mosh pit etiquette. Unless its a big metal band with teenagers at their first gigs who dont know the rules.

In the UK what we generally call moshing is actually pogoing anyway.

hey old school heads, here's a thing:
the first time i saw sonic youth (2006), there was no pit.

One thing with smoking being taken out of the clubs is you don’t have the lit cig in the mouth to deal with unruly people moshing outside the designated lunatic fringe. ‘oh did my lit cig hit yer face…ooops sorry, things going crazy you know…’

i feel like theres a middle way with this stuff, i love a good mosh pit but imo its also pretty easy not to hit or touch someone who clearly doesnt want to be hit or touched

like obv once in a great while you get people like the guy in Ubiquitor's story and thats a different thing, but moshing into ppl on the fringe who clearly dont want to be involved and being like "its a rock show what did you expect nerd" is disgusting savagery

When I saw Fucked Up, the pit was insane, just 10 sweaty bony dudes flinging their elbows everywhere. The whole floor cleared, all the women and smaller dudes and anyone who wasn’t in it to be beaten to shit pressed up against the walls. I was super disappointed the band didn’t say or do anything, in fact they seemed to enjoy it. Weird given what I know of their politics.

This is probably excessive in terms of thinking, but for me it’s just thinking ahead - “what kind of band is this?” “What is likely going to happen in the crowd in reaction to the music?” And then situating myself accordingly. I don’t see a lot of shows these days where pits are likely to erupt. The last one was Lightning Bolt, in 2018 and 2019, and I guessed accurately where the danger zone was and stayed far enough away from it to avoid getting sucked into the void.

Nothing wrong with the void as long as those within it have enough self-awareness to contain theirnon-violent mayhem to said void.

(2018 *or* 2019, I meant. And agreed, H.P.!)

re: moshing

Moshing can be incredibly fun at the right shows, as a bonding experience amongst super-excited fans. Moshing can also get you hurt, like my friend John, who broke his leg doing it.

Moshing is supposed to only include the willing. However, thanks to the laws of physics, even the most well-meaning people can take a tumble into innocent bystanders. And...there are lots of not-well meaning people in the pits.

I've made plenty of friends in pits. I've also been punched in the stomach (twice) by assholes taking cheap shots, and once kicked in the chest by someone who inexplicably took a flying leap at me.

so I have mixed feelings on it. which is to say I think it's perfectly fine whenever everybody abides by the accepted rules, and confines it to a localized area and nobody is there to hurt anybody or so intoxicated that they go crashing into other people just trying to watch the show.

but when even one or two people decide to act like assholes, it can easily ruin it.

also crowdkilling, the practice of deliberately harming people who aren't even in the pit, is fucking psychotic and everyone who does it should be arrested for assault. these dorks at deathcore shows that try to legitimize it by saying "why go to a show if you're just going to stand there" are pricks who have probably never suffered long-term debilitating injuries. but deathcore sucks so it doesn't surprise me that few of those dorks are there to actually listen to the music.

I was never a true pit warrior, but when I was going to shows with truly wild pits (Fishbone, Revolting Cocks, Circle Jerks, Ramones/GBH/Warzone, Suicidal Tendencies/Exodus/Pantera) in the late 80s and early 90s, there was absolutely a much better sense of etiquette — bands telling people from the stage to pick up anyone who fell over, etc. I definitely remember a palpable shift in atmosphere between 1989 and 1990, which took place for me at two different Red Hot Chili Peppers shows. The first one was a free outdoor gig in 1989; they were opening for Killing Joke, who I didn't stick around for because my friends had to leave, but the crowd was all punks and freaks bouncing off each other and having fun. The second gig was a headlining show at the Ritz (the "new Ritz" that used to be Studio 54) in NYC, and the crowd was full of shirtless dudes in backwards Duke hats punching people in the neck, and it sucked.