Being sexually attracted to (or repulsed by) certain racial types: the acceptable face of racism?

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What do you mean by "..."

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:13 (twenty years ago) link

who are you?

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:14 (twenty years ago) link

Eh?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:15 (twenty years ago) link

eh?

Robbie Lumsden (Wallace Stevens HQ), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:16 (twenty years ago) link

You talkin' to me?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:17 (twenty years ago) link

eH?

Skottie, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:17 (twenty years ago) link

Who are you?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:18 (twenty years ago) link

The acceptable race of fascism.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:19 (twenty years ago) link

Who is he?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:20 (twenty years ago) link

Are some men attracted to Asian women because of cultural representation of them as petite, subservient?
Any man who thinks that Asian women are subservient should try riding a crowded bus in Taipei or Hong Kong. They'll kick your hyper-masculine ass. Then spit on you. Not necessarily in that order.

i think the point is becoming clear..
it's not racist to not have found people from certain racial types attractive.

it may be racist to make remarks such as "i don't find asians attractive"

It's okay to think something but not to say it. Oh, now I get it. Yeah, that makes rhetorical sense. Okay. Huh? Are you serious?

SPOKEN: "I'm sorry Ms. Chen, we are unable to offer you the job/have sex with you at this time."

THOUGHT: "We don't hire/sleep with Asians. Ever."

haha. er, actually, you didn't really get it

the point was, saying "i haven't encountered an asian woman whom i've found attractive" isn't necessarily racist. but to say "i find asian women unattractive" is.

the first is factual, the second is an ill-informed generalisation.

to assume that "ms. chen" is an asian/chinese name, is probably also racist but i guess you got that, anyway.

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:22 (twenty years ago) link

("the first is factual" assuming that that is the truth)

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:23 (twenty years ago) link

scrool down to pic no. 3, you racist!
http://www.viceland.com/issues/v11n2/htdocs/dos.php

Jay Kid (Jay K), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:25 (twenty years ago) link

http://homepage3.nifty.com/chu-chu-love/sam/L0346_100.jpg

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:26 (twenty years ago) link

Some people seem to be suggesting that finding a particular racial type sexually attractive is not racist, and yet finding a particular racial type sexually unattractive is racist. How can this logically be?

not telling, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:27 (twenty years ago) link

I is liking this 'ere can o' worms. By the way, is the movie Wrong Turn rascist in it's portrayal of those from the backwoods?

Rumpy Pumpkin (rumpypumpkin), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:28 (twenty years ago) link

One of her ears sticks out further than the other. (x)

Madchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:28 (twenty years ago) link

her eyes are too far from her nose. (x)

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:30 (twenty years ago) link

Face it, she's from the "ming" dynasty

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:32 (twenty years ago) link

some people seem to be suggesting that finding a particular racial type sexually attractive is not racist, and yet finding a particular racial type sexually unattractive is racist. How can this logically be?

You may want to also see this thread of mine:

Making positive generalisations about people in other cultures/races - classic or dud?

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:32 (twenty years ago) link

What about people who think certain ethnic features (such as curly hair) are -always- unattractive?

I was lurking in an ILX chat room when a few British ILXors referred to curly hair as 'mingy'. Sorry, but that IS bigoted.

Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:34 (twenty years ago) link

!!!!!!!

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:37 (twenty years ago) link

dude, the ming dynasty is from china. that girl looks very much like she's of japanese descent.

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:37 (twenty years ago) link

This is fucked up.

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:38 (twenty years ago) link

I rarely fancy girls with v.curly hair who leave it that way. I wouldn't call it them that name though. That's mean, and occasionally someone with that kind of hair will take your breath away. That's the beauty of 'types' - they're there to be broken.

N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:40 (twenty years ago) link

Equality of opportunity and equality of result are different things. We might reasonably ask the judgement of law of the land or of an individual to give everyone an equal chance, an equal opportunity. We might ask the law, or the individual, to wear a blindfold when judging. If they peeked, and let the race or gender of the person being judged influence them one way or the other, we might well be justified in calling this 'racist' or 'sexist'.

However, it would not be reasonable to ask the law, or an individual, to guarantee equality of result. (In fact, equality of opporunity is more or less a guarantee of inequality of result.) In other words, nobody would expect all actors in society to be entitled to exactly the same life experiences as all others, and even if we expected an open-minded person to be willing to consider marrying partners of all races, we wouldn't expect him or her to actually marry someone from every race, one after the other. At some point one leaves abstract principles (of equality) and makes a commitment to a particularity. One judges. One chooses. Choice is inevitable. It would be silly to say that every choice is a massive discrimination against the things unchosen.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:41 (twenty years ago) link

to assume that "ms. chen" is an asian/chinese name, is probably also racist but i guess you got that, anyway.

Chen is one of the "lao bai xing" or old 100 names, one of the most common of Chinese surnames. To assume that "Chen" is a Chinese name is hardly racist, it is informed. To assume that Ms. Chen is Chinese may or may not be racist based on whether one is looking at the person or on the telephone. Even looking at the person, one might not be able to tell whether Ms. Chen were Chinese, but it would not be an ignorant racist assumption.

Skottie, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:46 (twenty years ago) link

I have a thing for men with ginger hair and pale skin (I know I know, I’m weird). I also really like mixed race people, I love brown skin and find it very attractive – there’s no particular race I like, just certain facial features. I don’t recall ever being sexually attracted to a blonde, I just don’t like ‘em. It’s just personal taste. Most people I know find my lurve of ginger men bizarre, does this mean they discriminate against gingers? Nope, they just don’t like them and nobody is asking them to! Sheesh!

smee (smee), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:49 (twenty years ago) link

Equality equality of result of opportunity and are things. We might equality ask the judgement of, an equal opportunity. We ask the law, or the might individual, law of the land or of an individual to give everyone an equal chance, to wear a blindfold when different judging. If calling this 'racist' or 'sexist' they peeked, and let the race or of the person gender being judged influence them one way or the other, we might well be justified in .

However, not be reasonable guarantee equality of to ask the law, it would or an individual nobody would expect, to result. (In fact, equality of opporunity of inequality of result.) In other words, all actors in society to be entitled life experiences as all others, and even is more or to exactly the same less a guarantee if we expected an open-minded person to be willing to consider marrying every race, one partners of all races, we wouldn't expect him or her to actually marry someone from after the other. At some point one leaves abstract principles (of equality) and Choice is inevitable. makes a commitment to a particularity. One judges. One chooses. It would be silly to say that every choice is against the things unchosen a massive discrimination

hommus (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:49 (twenty years ago) link

To assume that someone is or isn't Chinese or any other ethnic group is not a racist act. It may be right or wrong, informned or uninformed, but it is not racist. To deny someone employment/housing/etc. because one knows or thinks someone is a particular (or not a particular) ethnicity is racist. The idea that one should not be able to ascertain or notice an ethicity is dumb.

Skottie, Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:49 (twenty years ago) link

People can/do create shorthand rules based on observations about their "particularities" and once they begin to enforce said rules, even unconsciously, that really is discrimination. The definition of open-minded probably ought to refer to someone who pays no mind to their own supposed preferences at all.

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 13:50 (twenty years ago) link

skottie, what you just posted was obviously correct. And, unrelatedly, maybe using "ms chen" as the name of a stereotypical chinese woman probably isn't necessary racist, i suppose.

i get the feeling that the actual points of my posts early would never actually be read, anyway.

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:07 (twenty years ago) link

("early" should have been "earlier")

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:08 (twenty years ago) link

If they peeked, and let the race or gender of the person being judged influence them one way or the other, we might well be justified in calling this 'racist' or 'sexist'.

IRL, I think there are very few cases where race and gender are immaterial to judgement. These are still 'differences that make a difference', and need to be taken into account when we make judgements. If they aren't, our judgements can't be fair. So I think the image of Justice wearing a blindfold is a rather silly one, and I also think that to call people 'racist' and 'sexist' -- if it just means they take race and gender into account -- is a wrongheaded criticism.

'My it ain't so open that anything could crawl right in...'

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:09 (twenty years ago) link

'My mind it ain't so open that anything could crawl right in...'

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:10 (twenty years ago) link

The last place to lose yourself
Is. In. The. World. Where. We. All.
Cling cling cling cling cling cling cling cling

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:12 (twenty years ago) link

What kind of "difference that makes a difference" is deserving of a race-wide attribution?

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:13 (twenty years ago) link

white men can't jump

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:14 (twenty years ago) link

Race, as long as it makes a difference (and I don't say it should) must be taken into account. Not to do so is unfair.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:15 (twenty years ago) link

It's worth remembering, though, that all human affairs and all human beings are multi-dimensional. Race and gender are just vectors in a big spill pile with hundreds of other criteria. And they all have to be taken into account.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:17 (twenty years ago) link

(incidentally, before it looks like I'm being holier than thou - I think most of those open-minded people actually live in magic-fantasy-fun-land)

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:19 (twenty years ago) link

If they ALL have to be taken into account, having a racial preference is contradictory - full stop.

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:22 (twenty years ago) link

You can have a racial preference amongst other preferences. Your racial preference might be shorthand for a whole slew of other preferences. Dark hair and eyes, non-Christianity, etc.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:24 (twenty years ago) link

Emphasis on the word "racial" as in that context it should have lost meaning.

shorthand = prejudice

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:25 (twenty years ago) link

i want to make out with a girl with a 4 dimensional vagina

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:26 (twenty years ago) link

oh and prejudice = lazy and lazy = human

Kim (Kim), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:26 (twenty years ago) link

and human = shit

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:28 (twenty years ago) link

"Show me a person without prejudices, and I'll show you..."

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:28 (twenty years ago) link

Also, humans fit things into categories. It would be impossible to speak, or even think, without categories. The question is, what sorts of values we apply on different categories, and do we realize there's more than them, even if we use them for conviniency's sake.

Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:31 (twenty years ago) link

If 'prejudice' means what you believe before you've tried something, there should be a word like 'postjudice' for what you know after you've tried it. Prejudice would be bad, but postjudice would be fine.

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:33 (twenty years ago) link

Baby I've tried 'em all, and it's you, you, you
Don't call me postjudiced, it's true, true, true

Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 13 April 2004 14:35 (twenty years ago) link


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