The Lysergic Acid Diethylamidiotic Joe Biden & Sarah Palin VP Presidential Debate thread in the 2 zero zero 8 (2008 party over oops)

http://media.tumblr.com/7U8sSHFnvelub9kj3LlbJ8Rqo1_500.jpg

he's been no maverick on things that a matter people's lives

it's-a me, biden!

P.S. guys it was "I own a timber company? That's news to me. [ten minute pause during which Bush minces around like Bill Cosby thinking up a kicker] Need some wood?"

Swear to gawd, that and the 2000 "howzit goin', can I help you?" look he gave Gore as Gore tried to be alpha male endeared me to Shrubya for almost one second.

lol juan cole

Not only did she ignore most of Gwen Ifill's questions,she paid no attention to what Joe Biden said. When he choked up over the loss of his family, she did not have the decency to express any kind of condolences. It is almost as though she is autistic and unable to connect with human beings.

http://media.tumblr.com/Avw5u6Rn9elronenzRf3jI6No1_500.jpg

bahaha excellent

juan cole was on point. I mean, i don't know if that registered with anyone else, but she came off like a robot.

I actually thought Palin was visibly flustered after the Biden choke up thing. It was kind of bizarre, as if she was affected, but didn't want to show any vulnerability and tried to keep going w/out missing a beat (which she didn't). Weird to me was that Biden's choke up thing didnt seem like a huge deal -- he was understandably upset, and had Palin made any kind of concession to feeling his pain or something, and then moved onto whatever agenda she wanted to reinforce, it could have been almost as many points for her as for him.

It was kind of bizarre, as if she was affected, but didn't want to show any vulnerability and tried to keep going w/out missing a beat (which she didn't).

that's how I interpreted it.

reading this mornings analysis around the internet one particularly otm point thats being made is palins over reliance on her script prevented her from rebutting bidens attacks on mccain as forcefully as was prob appropriate - ended up biden got a lot of clean shots in on mccain w/out any push back

they really need to release all these tapes, and pronto:

Couric: Could you give me a synonym for evening? Just, perhaps, another word one, in any time zone, in any language, might use to replace the word evening if that was off limits?

Palin: Yes, we Palins love cinnamon, Katie. One of my vices, even though I don’t look rotund, has always been Cinnabon. I celebrate, like a lot of Joe Six-Packers, my anniversary there, and it’s where Bristol and Levi will have a baby shower for little Tonka, whenever the lord decides to bless us with it. Him. Her.

joe six pack OTM
i bet my buddy 3 drinks that she'd have a pre-scripted come-back for the whole spain thing (which there's gotta be some rational explanation for, right?)

the spain thing remains a giant mystery that has never been explained by the mccain camp

but I wanted not just "he is Bush 2, no maverick" but "he's wrong!"

HOOS did you miss the answer w/ Biden's "he is wrong" litany (wrt to the Iraq War)?

also lol @ people wanting to be "entertained" by a political debate

Not only did she ignore most of Gwen Ifill's questions,she paid no attention to what Joe Biden said. When he choked up over the loss of his family, she did not have the decency to express any kind of condolences. It is almost as though she is autistic and unable to connect with human beings.

I thought it came across as unemotional as Dukakis responding to Bernard Shaw's question about raping and killing Kitty Dukakis.

I don't remember it! Will have to skim the transcript. xp

it doesn't come across as well in print, but palin delivering "mccain knows how to win a war!" seemingly in reference to vietnam was amusing

John McCain who knows how to win a war. Who’s been there and he’s faced challenges and he knows what evil is and knows what it takes to overcome the challenges here with our military.

Incredible that bit where she claimed a desire for MORE power than Cheney.

Birth of a twittering monster.

― i, grey, Friday, October 3, 2008 8:35 AM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the thing that struck me was the skyrocketing CNN audience ratings when biden responded to this by talking about how bad cheney's been.

i would love to see the campaign tie THOSE things into the popular distaste for 'big government'

it doesn't come across as well in print, but palin delivering "mccain knows how to win a war!" seemingly in reference to vietnam was amusing

John McCain who knows how to win a war. Who’s been there and he’s faced challenges and he knows what evil is and knows what it takes to overcome the challenges here with our military.

― schlump, Friday, October 3, 2008 9:38 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

conservatives have a bizzaro world view of that war fyi

Couric: Could you give me a synonym for evening? Just, perhaps, another word one, in any time zone, in any language, might use to replace the word evening if that was off limits?

don't understand the motivation behind asking this type of question? a vocabulary test? really? that's really gonna rock the neutrals' world

she was testing palin's vocabulary skills, IMO

I thought the mccain/spain thing was that he was being questioned about south america by a reporter, and he was taking a hard stance against chavez, etc. then the reporter asked him if he would meet with the PM of spain, and mccain, hearing a spanish-sounding name, thought the reporter was talking about some other random latin american commie so he kept up his hardass pose.

it's kinda hard for the mccain campaign to explain away, except to say "he didn't recognize the name of the PM of spain, dur", which they're not going to do, though obama/biden are making a big enough deal out of it that they may have to now. but they'll just grumble "gotcha msm journalism make life unfair blah blah" and be done with it.

I just have to thank her for pointing out O'Biden's Irish roots.

she also needs to come clean about the time change in Alaska. Couric dances around the subject, but the time change is going to have a big effect if she's VP.

Couric: So what time of day is the evening? What sorts of things might the Governor of Alaska do in the evening?

Palin: That’s something that everyone kind of has their own personal take on that, Katie. I can’t be presumptuous and tell you when the evening is. I know when it takes place personally for me, but because of maritime locales, and what have you, and different clocks, and because all of us individuals find ourselves on different areas of the map from time to time, evening is sort of a relative concept, Katie. I’ve been around enough not to inflict my stance there. That’s up to the states.

this just reveals the nihilistic depths of my cynicism, but biden getting choked up struck me as a crass bit of political theater. palin didn't do herself any favors by ignoring it, though.

That's why I was confused about what prompted the crying.

Mike Mansfield, a former leader of the Senate, said to me one day — he — I made a criticism of Jesse Helms. He said, “What would you do if I told you Jesse Helms and Dot Helms had adopted a child who had braces and was in real need?” I said, “I’d feel like a jerk.”

this confused me

I was like "child with braces in need? just don't call him tinsel teeth and things will work out fine."

I guess he meant leg braces...

Yeah having worn leg braces myself that was my first association, but I also thought "is anyone else under 40 gonna get that?"

40 being an arbitrarily chosen age beneath which you might not remember young people walkin around in leg braces, but fuck it maybe lots of people have seen Forrest Gump or w/e

here's the choking up segment. biden's emotional moment is as much non sequitur as palin's response is aspergerish, so let's just call it a draw.

IFILL: Let’s talk conventional wisdom for a moment. The conventional wisdom, Gov. Palin with you, is that your Achilles heel is that you lack experience. Your conventional wisdom against you is that your Achilles heel is that you lack discipline, Sen. Biden. What id it really for you, Gov. Palin? What is it really for you, Sen. Biden? Start with you, governor.

PALIN: My experience as an executive will be put to good use as a mayor and business owner and oil and gas regulator and then as governor of a huge state, a huge energy producing state that is accounting for much progress towards getting our nation energy independence and that’s extremely important.

But it wasn’t just that experience tapped into, it was my connection to the heartland of America. Being a mom, one very concerned about a son in the war, about a special needs child, about kids heading off to college, how are we going to pay those tuition bills? About times and Todd and our marriage in our past where we didn’t have health insurance and we know what other Americans are going through as they sit around the kitchen table and try to figure out how are they going to pay out-of-pocket for health care? We’ve been there also so that connection was important.

But even more important is that world view that I share with John McCain. That world view that says that America is a nation of exceptionalism. And we are to be that shining city on a hill, as President Reagan so beautifully said, that we are a beacon of hope and that we are unapologetic here. We are not perfect as a nation. But together, we represent a perfect ideal. And that is democracy and tolerance and freedom and equal rights. Those things that we stand for that can be put to good use as a force for good in this world.

John McCain and I share that. You combine all that with being a team with the only track record of making a really, a difference in where we’ve been and reforming, that’s a good team, it’s a good ticket.

IFILL: Senator?

BIDEN: You’re very kind suggesting my only Achilles Heel is my lack of discipline.

Others talk about my excessive passion. I’m not going to change. I have 35 years in public office. People can judge who I am. I haven’t changed in that time.

And, by the way, a record of change — I will place my record and Barack’s record against John McCain’s or anyone else in terms of fundamental accomplishments. Wrote the crime bill, put 100,000 cops on the street, wrote the Violence Against Women Act, which John McCain voted against both of them, was the catalyst to change the circumstance in Bosnia, led by President Clinton, obviously.

Look, I understand what it’s like to be a single parent. When my wife and daughter died and my two sons were gravely injured, I understand what it’s like as a parent to wonder what it’s like if your kid’s going to make it.

I understand what it’s like to sit around the kitchen table with a father who says, “I’ve got to leave, champ, because there’s no jobs here. I got to head down to Wilmington. And when we get enough money, honey, we’ll bring you down.”

I understand what it’s like. I’m much better off than almost all Americans now. I get a good salary with the United States Senate. I live in a beautiful house that’s my total investment that I have. So I — I am much better off now.

But the notion that somehow, because I’m a man, I don’t know what it’s like to raise two kids alone, I don’t know what it’s like to have a child you’re not sure is going to **CHOKES UP** — is going to make it — I understand.

I understand, as well as, with all due respect, the governor or anybody else, what it’s like for those people sitting around that kitchen table. And guess what? They’re looking for help. They’re looking for help. They’re not looking for more of the same.

IFILL: Governor?

PALIN: People aren’t looking for more of the same. They are looking for change. And John McCain has been the consummate maverick in the Senate over all these years.

well he simply said "Past is prologue, right?" which succinctly deflated her entire pointless rant.

well he missed the chance to point out that we're actually talking about the present -- bush is still president, and we're dealing right now with the effects of republican rule -- but i don't expect that "let's not look backward" line to get a lot of use, because it's just too transparent.

Katie Couric asked the vice presidential nominees what is the "best and worst thing that Dick Cheney has done as Vice President?" Biden on Cheney's worst thing:
I think he's done more harm than any other single elected official in memory in terms of shredding the constitution. You know --condoning torture. Pushing torture as a policy. This idea of a unitary executive. Meaning the Congress and the people have no power in a time of war. And the President controls everything. I don't have any animus toward Dick Cheney but I really do think his attitude about the constitution and the prosecution of this war has been absolutely wrong.
What about Palin? Here's her answer:
Worst thing I guess that would have been the duck hunting accident--where you know, that was an accident. And I think that was made into a caricature of him. And that was kind of unfortunate. So the best thing though, he's shown support, along with George W. Bush, of our troops. And I've been there when George Bush has spoken to families of those who have suffered greatly, those who are serving in the military. I've been there when President Bush has embraced those families and expressed the concern and the sympathy speaking for all of America in those times. And for Dick Cheney to have supported that effort of George Bush's, I respect that.

HAHAHAHA

From Andrew Sullivan.

the sweet cnn undecided focus group running graph is the only thing that kept me going through that boring ass debate

the choking up was politically fortuitous but genuine, i thought.

but who said that because he's a man he doesn't know how to raise two kids alone? maybe his debate proxy...

we are to be that shining city on a hill, as President Reagan so beautifully said

huge lolz @ this

neither the original question nor palin's reponse really called for going there, it was like, "debate's almost over, gotta squeeze this in somewhere."

xp

I'm glad that someone else noticed when she confused the commander in Afghanistan, David D. McKiernan, with the Army of the Potomac commander and Democratic presidential candidate in 1864, Geroge McClellan. Talk about pointing backward.

biden's emotional moment is as much non sequitur as palin's response is aspergerish

How is getting momentarily choked up when talking about a hypothetical ailing child when your own child died a "non sequitur"?

(xpost) The "because I'm a man" comment seems to be a direct answer / response to Palin's "hockey MOM" rhetoric.

Geroge? Man, I need some more coffee.

How is getting momentarily choked up when talking about a hypothetical ailing child when your own child died a "non sequitur"?

Because it wasn't responding to a point or question?

just cause palin says "I'm a mom" that doesn't mean biden has to automatically say "I've been a mom too! a tragic tragic mom! *SNIFF*"

it seemed a bit reaching, that's all I'm saying

hey y'all:

this is kinda dumb but i've been in this kinda freefall panic about the whole election i've been TOTALLY avoiding all news and coverage and daily show and everything, so i just need to know cuz i've been worried all morning that they'd set expectations so super low that the big storyline coming out of the debate was going to be "palin shows her stuff" just because she seemed like halfway not retarded and they were gonna get some big bounce out of this like her convention speech....so is that happening?

hey there vikings fan

I don't wanna deny anybody their oprah moment, but come on, do you know how rehearsed these people are?

xp

too early to see a bounce but the general consensus is biden "won" xp

hey there vikings fan

― max, Friday, October 3, 2008 3:13 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha no shit...congenitally predisposed towards pessimism.

PALIN: me and todd had lotsa trouble sitting round the kitchen table at night, thinking 'bout sending kids to iraq, got a special needs kid right here in my papoose...

BIDEN: you've got a special needs kid? well mine's DEAD!