The Lysergic Acid Diethylamidiotic Joe Biden & Sarah Palin VP Presidential Debate thread in the 2 zero zero 8 (2008 party over oops)

wonks be reading periodicals

updated AOHell poll - yeahh!

Who won the debate?
Joe Biden 47%
Sarah Palin 45%
It was a draw 8%
Total Votes: 223,997
Note on Poll Results

Who would make a better vice president?
Joe Biden 51%
Sarah Palin 46%
I'm not sure 3%
Total Votes: 217,224

every time palin has opened her mouth shes told a really obvious lie and/or said something undeniably retarded

I'm pretty confident the Dems have this election, so I'm not all Scanners about this

from the outside, this is pretty much kerry/bush all over again.

IFILL: Would you like to have an opportunity to answer that before we move on?

PALIN: I’m still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again. And I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor. And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I’m going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also.

gnnnnghhh

I haven't read any of the commentary yet, but it strikes me now that her "I don't have to answer questions from the moderator, or answer questions from you [Biden], I only have a responsibility to talk to the American people [*wink*]" thing was her (pre-scripted) attempt at Ferraro's "don't condescend to me, Bush" moment.

Palin did herself some good, Biden did himself some good, nothing changes therefore a win for Obama/Biden.

Looooooooooooooooool at TV commentators falling all over themselves to congratulate Palin for holding her own last night. Bullshit - these sissies just don't wanna be accused of sexism ala Hillary.

Biden was ON-POINT. His closing statement bodyslammed Palin's by laying things out clear and being non-partisan. I need a transcript of that.

I've never seen any of these two talk before. Biden really impressed me. Palin also made a big impression, nails-on-chalkboard style.

I haven't seen anybody else comment on Palin accidentally giving her closing statement in answer to the last question, and then when actual closing statement time came going uhhhhhh and thx again joe & gwen & i <3 u scott & big up wasilla crew

me & drinking crew lol'd

also @ first instance of nukuler i heard myself scream OH GOD I THOUGHT IT WAS OVER

Reading the transcript this morning, I tried to figure out what provoked Biden's Cry Moment. Palin didn't attack him or imply that he was less of a parent for being a single dad.

It was thinking of his lost kid + concern for the safety of his son I thought?

lolz

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/10/words-matter-an.html

oh god CNN "She clearly was the folksy winner of tonight"

"Palin also made a big impression, nails-on-chalkboard style."

no shit. no-one else seems to note that her voice has an extremeley grating nervous waver to it that gets especially noticable when she's asked a challenging question, she sounds like she's on the verge of panic.

also, her constant claims that she is middle class.... i wish Biden had called her on that. At least he admitted he was much better off now than he ever was before he was a senator. She's worth over a million dollars. I know rich people don't like to think they're rich but she is, by any measure I use.

where is the transcript quote of her folksy run rejoinder, "say it ain't so joe good golly gosh and darn?"

folksy run-on rejoinder that is

IFILL: Governor?

PALIN: Say it ain’t so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again. You preferenced your whole comment with the Bush administration. Now doggone it, let’s look ahead and tell Americans what we have to plan to do for them in the future. You mentioned education and I’m glad you did. I know education you are passionate about with your wife being a teacher for 30 years, and god bless her. Her reward is in heaven, right?

full transcript at http://aftercancernowwhat.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/biden-palin-vice-presidential-debate-2008-transcript/#more-1806

and I think the bigger point about Biden's choking up moment was how awkward it was to go back to Palin afterward who didn't acknowledge it. she was clearly tasked with being "friendly" to contrast with how McCain was perceived in the first debate (asking at the beginning if she could call him Joe, running over to shake his hand, etc) but in the heat of the moment when it called for some kind of acknowledgement she went right on in automaton mode and talked about I don't know what. It was like she wasn't even listening

also @ first instance of nukuler i heard myself scream OH GOD I THOUGHT IT WAS OVER

^^ oh man this.

Incredible that bit where she claimed a desire for MORE power than Cheney.

Birth of a twittering monster.

PALIN: Say it ain’t so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again.

biden not calling her on this is the biggest failure of the night, i think. it so succinctly summarises the republican attempt to ignore their recent record in favour of bland promises of reform and change.

her gall in being the one saying the following was really ridiculous too:

We’re tired of the old politics as usual. And that’s why, with all due respect, I do respect your years in the U.S. Senate, but I think Americans are craving something new and different and that new energy and that new commitment that’s going to come with reform.

I think that’s why we need to send the maverick from the Senate and put him in the White House.

Seriously I was kinda surprised he called her on the wonk stuff ("well that was a procedural vote") and not on the narrative stuff.

Disappointed I guess is the word. No big quotables from either one (how I pine for the days of "wanna buy some wood?")

her cynical smirk every time biden talked was infuriating, i was trying not to look at her awful smug face.

"ALIN: Say it ain’t so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again.

biden not calling her on this is the biggest failure of the night, i think."

well he simply said "Past is prologue, right?" which succinctly deflated her entire pointless rant.

i can't even remember what that "wanna buy some wood" line was about!

i thought both of them played it v defensively/safely, as if they were concentrating more on not screwing up than on attacking, so for palin this meant ignoring the questions to trot out her scripts, and amping up the ridiculous folksiness, while biden seemed to be very numbers and statistics focused. so it meant it was neither game-changing nor particularly entertaining. apart from the "bridge to nowhere" zing!

Biden's heartfelt choke-up was also nicely timed to distract from him/us thinking "oh crap, did he really say 'just because I'm a man?'"

The Economist had "past is prologue" as the line of the night, although I don't think he delivered it prominently enough.

no idea but i remember losing my shit at the time xxxp

Lex how in the world can you characterize Palin's position as "defensive?" The main non-platitudinous substance of the "scripts" he had involved challenges on Obama/Biden senate votes, which Biden was left responding to (defense) through about a third of the debate.

P.S. guys it was "I own a timber company? That's news to me. [ten minute pause during which Bush minces around like Bill Cosby thinking up a kicker] Need some wood?"

Yeah, she wasn't on the defensive at all. That would have required improvisation, thinking on her feet and an in-depth knowledge of the issues, none of which she has. Biden got in a lot of free hits as a result.

fave part - joe kinda snapping after hearing "maverick" for 372nd time of the night and pretty much calling bullshit. loved it!!!

"safe" rather than defensive then

Yeah, "safe" is better -- per caek and per earlier predictions, Palin on a scripted attack completely neutralizes her great flaw (apparent inability to discuss knowledgeably in real time). The few times Biden's responses got handed back to her for extra time, she didn't have much beyond repeating the original charge, like "yeah, well, whatever, but that's not how you voted."

ie defensive strategy though not defensive tactics, I'd say.

I was hoping all night that Joe would say something like "Taking on your own party is only admirable if you're on the right side of the issue, and where John has done so he has been wrong."

"Maverick he is not" was a nice zing in that regard, but I wanted not just "he is Bush 2, no maverick" but "he's wrong!"

Look, let's talk about the maverick John McCain is. And again I love him, he's been a maverick on some issues but he's been no maverick on things that a matter people's lives. He voted four out of five times for George Bush's budget which put us half a trillion in debt this year and over three trillion in debt since he got there. He has not been a maverick in providing health care for people. He voted against including another 3.6 million children in coverage of an existing health care plan in the United States Senate. He's not been a maverick when it comes to education. He has not supported tax cuts and significant changes for people being able to send their kids to college, he's not been a maverick on the war, not been a maverick on virtually anything that generally affects the things people really talk about around the kitchen table. Can we get mom's MRI? Can we send Mary back to school next semester? We can't make it. How will we heat the house this winter? He even voted against what they call LIHEAP, for assistance for people with oil prices going through the roof in the winter. So a maverick he is not, on the important critical issues that affect people at the kitchen table.

http://media.tumblr.com/7U8sSHFnvelub9kj3LlbJ8Rqo1_500.jpg

he's been no maverick on things that a matter people's lives

it's-a me, biden!

P.S. guys it was "I own a timber company? That's news to me. [ten minute pause during which Bush minces around like Bill Cosby thinking up a kicker] Need some wood?"

Swear to gawd, that and the 2000 "howzit goin', can I help you?" look he gave Gore as Gore tried to be alpha male endeared me to Shrubya for almost one second.

lol juan cole

Not only did she ignore most of Gwen Ifill's questions,she paid no attention to what Joe Biden said. When he choked up over the loss of his family, she did not have the decency to express any kind of condolences. It is almost as though she is autistic and unable to connect with human beings.

http://media.tumblr.com/Avw5u6Rn9elronenzRf3jI6No1_500.jpg

bahaha excellent

juan cole was on point. I mean, i don't know if that registered with anyone else, but she came off like a robot.