The Death of Cinema pt. 94

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i don't get morbs on this score. the "original cinephiles", the parisians in the 50s, were crazy for uncomplicated, populist filmmaking.

xpost

no sight and sound don't think the golden age can return. it's not a new lament, but it's not that old either. your line of thinking tends to say nothing ever changes, but of course it does.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

What was "uncomplicated, populist filmmaking" in the heyday of French cinephilia was also filled with solid formalism that is basically not even in the equation w.r.t Apatow.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

yeees, i.e. Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter?is a superior example of uncomplicated, p*pulist (GODDAMN YOU) filmmaking, and that Napoleon Dynamite is a horrid one.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

there were bad movies lots of ppl liked in the old days too dude

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

not that knocked up is even bad

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

i hate 'napoleon dynamite' and it isn't populist. but both of you are mental to think late '50s hollywood was particularly golden, it's sheer cineaste myth-making.

xpost

i like 'knocked up' a lot.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

me too it's great

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

i like 'knocked up' a lot.

We noticed

Tom D., Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

(I used ND as I haven't seen any Apatow films, but substantial critics who've liked his stuff have generally said "well, this isn't cinema")

Was there popular trash in the '50s? Of course. Was there a higher % of watchable studio films? Fuck yes.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

substantial critics who've liked his stuff have generally said "well, this isn't cinema"

name names

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

(I used ND as I haven't seen any Apatow films, but substantial critics who've liked his stuff have generally said "well, this isn't cinema")

sigh

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

you might want to try actually watching movies sometime morbius.

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

but both of you are mental to think late '50s hollywood was particularly golden

Who is arguing that? Nobody's claiming every last studio film between 1953-1958 was blindly accepted as an artistic breakthrough.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

As this thread proves, the real problem with cinema is that cinephilia refuses to fucking die.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

this is an interesting discussion and i'm sorry to say i don't have much to add to it, except that whenever e.g. godard pops his head out of his hole to proclaim the d"eath of cinema" every two years or so my kneejerk reaction is usually "stfu"

impudent harlot, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

what do you call cinephilia when it doesn't actually involve watching the movies you're talking about

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

'napoleon dynamite' isn't populist

Yeah, that's why I see VOTE FOR PEDRO tees on the street

I will watch Knocked Up when it hits DVD shortly. Given the track record of people who love it, I'll send the universal $11 cost of a NYC film ticket to my creditors instead, thanks.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

great attitude.

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

As this thread proves, the real problem with cinema is that cinephilia refuses to fucking die.

YES

impudent harlot, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

what do you call cinephilia when it doesn't actually involve watching the movies you're talking about

Every cinephile I know does this. We're not all working critics, after all.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, attitude? It's hardcore personal economics.

also stfu w/ "populist" forever and ever and ever

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 14:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

at this point i don't think a Hollywood youth-orientated comedy can ever appeal to me again. too late for Zoolander 2.

blueski, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

tonight hollywood weeps

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

they'll get over me, in time.

blueski, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

s1ocki, I have been writing a little about film for just over 8 months (for the first time since college) without benefit of a single free screening or DVD screener, so tell me who's supposed to subsidize my seeing all the 'important' films like KU.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

Culturally discerning [sic?] 25-year-olds who would've seen and discussed every Godard film in the mid '60s now reserve their passion for Knocked Up

Are you ever going to let this go, Morbs? Like "cinephiles" didn't love Mazursky or Blier.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

whatever dude, if you can't afford to see it, maybe hold back on criticizing it

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

i could care less if you ever see an apatow film but if you're going to talk shit about them i might take your opinions a little more seriously if you had a clue what you were talking about

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

As for the topic at hand: most critics find sentimentality irresistable (every Gore Vidal essay bemoaning the Death of the Novel to thread)

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

So ... the death of cinephilia = the price of tickets

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

That's not the only reason, but is a contributing factor to my being well over the cinephilia as gluttony thing.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

it's not difficult to identify things about a film you either know you dislike or strongly suspect you will dislike esp. now you can read fairly detailed synopsis on wikipedia ;)

blueski, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

it's dead where it used to be alive and vice versa.(thank you asian cinema for keeping the light)
but generally speaking,there are less good movies per year compared to the past,imo.

Zeno, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

All this talk about the Golden Age of Foreign Films is merely a bunch of critics fetishizing the act of going to a Bleeker Street theatre or whatever and having long arguments afterwards about Bergman's use of dwarfs in The Silence. These communities still exist and the discussion continues.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

the thing is,Bergman was shown in smaller,less central places than nyc, and now,"art directors" like him are shown ONLY on cities like nyc.
there are less audience for that "art" movies.

Zeno, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

Maybe we should stop thinking that the medium had a golden age, then. Mourn the lack of enthusiasm, or maybe its transition into something else. (Something very annoying.)

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

i think we should just keep talking ourselves in circles forever.

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:21 (7 years ago) Permalink

Knocked Up's postrelease prestige print ads featured a scintillating line about how marriage differs from Everybody Loves Raymond as an example of its Wilder-caliber screenwriting. I'll be pleasantly surprised if I like it, but I know the way to bet.

I've seen one episode of The Sopranos, let's talk about that now.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Wilder-caliber screenwriting" often didn't even meet Wilder's standards.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:23 (7 years ago) Permalink

i think we should just keep talking ourselves in circles forever.

Whatever keeps us from actually watching movies, right?

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

That "Everybody Loves Raymond" line was v. lame

Tom D., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

I bet it'll be the clip for its Best Original Screenplay nom

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

Irony: I am going to see Knocked Up tonight for $2 at the awesome cheap theater near where I live. Well, no, I guess that's not really ironic at all.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

ok i am not going to have this argument again, if your really think you don't actually have to watch movies to pass judgment on them, i dont think we have much to talk about

s1ocki, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

To be fair, he wasn't passing judgement on Knocked Up but an archetype that overlaps with a perceived fanbase for that film.

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

YES

food critics, Christ

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Morbs contructs these phony binarities: if you love Apatow films, you're a meathead who will ignore a Tsai Ming-Liang release.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Can't one hate both?

Eric H., Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

I mean, wtf, a Renoir or pre-American Lang film wasn't getting the George Cukor Radio City treatment.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

no, I actually don't believe that particular phony binary

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 13 September 2007 15:40 (7 years ago) Permalink


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