Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

i don't think most of us have an issue with lyrics being ambiguous/in character/ironic/provocative.... thats probably why i personally put aside this issue for a long time. but when you start working as a mouthpiece for actual real fascist parties in your interviews, you lose the right to claim your lyrics should be given the benefit of the doubt

i get the impression (being far too young to have been around at the time) that earlier on there was a lot more room for plausible deniability (though certainly enough reason to be suspicious) with him, as mark's piece outlines, but he gradually got increasing blatant and that's culminated in his statements and actions over the past few years

Lol I thought about posting that dumbshit paultma quote as well calz. Tbfttl he does seem recently to have slowly come to the conclusion he couldn’t quite reach after a mere 20 years of morrissey being an obvious racist, and in any road we have a new even worse Paul who’s shocked at the gaucherie of being rude about white supremacists

i don't think most of us have an issue with lyrics being ambiguous/in character/ironic/provocative.

I agree but words still say things and I really don't see a credible non-racist interpretation of "Bengali in Platforms". (And I was enough of a fan when I bought Viva Hate that I tried to but couldn't.) I think the character of the Bengali immigrant is p clearly being mocked, regardless of whose pov you think the speaker is expressing.

yeah as soon as i had put "most of us" i realised how white priviledgey that sounded. to some people it was probably fucking obvious and very hurtful for years, but for a lot of fans myself included it was easier to ignore.

Tbh, I think he largely got away with because most North Americans don't know what a Bengali is. I suspect that the response would have been different if Michael Stipe wrote a song called "Mexican in a Wifebeater".

wait hasn't Morrissey written that one too?

I know I didn't fully parse the phrase "Bengali In Platforms" for a ludicrously long time, largely because even though Moz is a "listen to me for my lyrics" dude I was well into honing the rough edges off of my "ignore the lyrics aside from how the fit the overall sound palette" stance when I first heard it and pretty much glossed over everything except the "Bengali" chant. When I actually sat down and read through what I had been listening to, I was horrified.

Could probably finish off his North American fanbase too if someone can alert him to some sort of animal rights violation taking place in Mexico.

Don't they still have bullfighting in Mexico?

yes, they do -- i have seen it!

plausible deniability is the absolute worst
sucks that this needs to be said but it does
if you rely on plausiable deniability, you're on extremely thin ice to start with

i am done with morrissey the person; i still enjoy the music of the smiths but only in moderation and at the time of my choosing (don't want to hear "this charming man" while shopping for example)

I still love the music probably up to Vauxhall & I but haven't listened to it in years. Isn't he basically admitting to being a racist in Speedway?

Tbh, I think he largely got away with because most North Americans don't know what a Bengali is. I suspect that the response would have been different if Michael Stipe wrote a song called "Mexican in a Wifebeater".

otm x 1000
i was 15 when i first heard "bengali in platforms", pretty smart, and had no idea what he was talking about. it went right over my tiny american head.

i can probably continue to enjoy Morrissey in the same way I can continue to enjoy James Woods in a few cool '80s and '90s roles (though Woods' politics never seeped into his art, since he wasn't the writer, which is fortunate because he's even worse than Morrissey).

DJP also otm about it sinking in -- I think once it did, unfortunately Moz-worms were already burrowed into my brain at that point via Smiths songs. idk. It doesn't help that there are Smiths songs that conjure some of my worst memories, so it's all mixed up. I def don't feel sad for the loss of Morrissey in my life.

To say his music (solo and The Smiths) meant a lot to me for so many years, I haven't really had much of a problem cutting him out my life. It's been quite easy to just stop listening to him and sell off a bunch of his records. Every time I take another one out my collection, I wonder if I'll regret it and so far I haven't.

I haven't been paying attention to his latest album campaign, but I was surprised to see a single with Billie Joe Armstrong pop up on the new release schedule. Considering how outspoken Billie has been about politics, is he really just that unaware of Morrissey's views?

I do still like and sometimes listen to the Smiths' music, and even some solo Morrissey.

yeah i'm not going to dump his catalog up through Vauxhall which i still find very worthwhile. I will not give him any money now though.

A whole of bunch of American artists are on his new album, I believe. Far be it for me to bring up the subject of American insularity but...

Moreover, one of those artists is a first-generation child of Indian immigrants.

xps to jamiesummerz and Mark G re We’ll Let You Know. Agree re ambiguity of quotes - I didn’t notice them either - but the song ends with that half-whispered

know
We are the last truly British people you will ever know
You'll never never want to know

Moreover, one of those artists is a first-generation child of Indian immigrants.

Like Morrissey, except Indian.

Yeah, Morrissey's family were immigrants!

More like “You’re The One For Me, Fashy”

Let The White One In

A Rush and a Putsch and the Land Is Ours.

... could do this all night, should warn you.

irish skull, english calipers

Like Morrissey, except Indian.

― Ned Caligari (Tom D.), Wednesday, May 15, 2019 6:00 PM (thirty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, Morrissey's family were immigrants!

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, May 15, 2019 6:02 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I did not know this and it makes his whole deal like 10 times more stupid.

there are lots of racist british nationalists who are from irish immigrant backgrounds. stephen yaxley-lennon aka tommy robinson's parents are irish, the leader of the fash group morrissey supports, for britain, is from ... dublin

it's pretty clear that "has immigrant family" does not inoculate one against racist/xenophobe brainworms

I guess it’s that whole idea of pulling up the ladder - I’m sure it wasn’t exactly great to be second gen Irish in Britain all the time, but I doubt he had it as bad as any of the Asians he despises.

I suspect that Union Jack waving Proud-To-Be-British West Brit thing seems especially bizarre to me because I'm from Scotland.

lol I just checked and his parents immigrated to Manchester a year before he was born - which makes shite like his hankerings for an England that no longer exists - and it is always England - even funnier.

He would be a worthy winner of the worst diaspora poll.

agree
but the competition is extremely fierce!

i don't think 'irish' immigrants count as immigrants in these people's minds these days, because white.

Polish and Eastern European immigrants are white and they count as immigrants to these people.

Maybe now but this was definitely *not* the case in 70s and 80s UK - a lot of Irish people in this country were regularly assumed to be IRA sympathisers for one thing.

(White Eastern Europeans are among the most vocally reviled of immigrant groups in modern day Britain as well).

Not to mention British attitudes to the Irish going back centuries.

And still flourishing even today!

The Return of the Irish Question - this week's excellent cover essay
is by @JohnBew pic.twitter.com/WEcKg3pNpZ

— Jason Cowley (@JasonCowleyNS) May 15, 2019

ahh always good to have a nice old-fashioned "(ethnic group) question" rumination

meet the new statesman, same as the old statesman

fucking imperialist arrogance of that...cunts!

It's ok you can't buy the NS in Ireland

Just read mark s's piece and it is very good!

I gave a listen to his new covers album, and lord does it suck. His trying to compete with Marilyn McCoo is offensive in and of itself. I guess his current fanbase likes pointless nostalgia.

Does anyone want to start a project re-writing The Smiths Lyrics and melodies to remove Morrissey?

The Smiths Without Morrissey - THE LP

I'm serious!

SongMeanings comment on "Asian Rut" (which btw reminded me of stuff from the old alt.music.smiths group - I'm actually surprised by the comments upthread that it was inconceivable that Morrissey could have inspired a Paki-bashing yob):

Slightly controversial point here (which will no doubt attract a lot of negative comments) but this is yet another Morrissey song which prompted certain people (including Paul Heaton from the once good The Beautiful South and The Housemartins) to believe he was racist. The point some people fail to see is that patriotism isn't racism AT ALL. Sure that racists are very patriotic, but some people are patriotic without being racist. This applies to this song and another of his songs, Bengali In Platforms in particular. Without talking too much about the meanings of both songs (which are quite obvious really), it seems to me that Morrissey has similar views to myself on issues of race/equality. The fact is that there's almost TOO MUCH political correctness these days, where British or white people in general can be the butt of racist jokes, etc. and the culprits seem to get away with it. But there is plenty of what could be interpreted as racism towards white people from, for example, black gangster rappers. Why should they get away with these racist (and often sexist amongst other things) comments, when white people get condemned? It's silly. It should be deemed unacceptable for people of all races to be racist. Then there are people who disagree with Asylum seekers and illegal immigrants, who come over and gain housing and work from those who are more in need of them. And yet some (for example) British Muslims seem to think these comments are an attack on Muslims in general, which is very paranoid. Wherever you're from, whatever country you're from, if you move to another country you should always respect the laws and the culture of that country. Anyway this song has a pretty good tune, and has thought-provoking, interesting lyrics (although from possibly his weakest album though, even though it is OK).
All Is Dreamon January 04, 2007

So many thoughts being provoked inside that controversial mind, how does he hold them all together?

Guar Gum