― DG, Friday, 23 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
Robin did me a tape of a lot of stuff which sounded great (oh for working tape facilities - I had to play it in my girlfriend's car, though she got even more into it than me). The kind of 'spacey' and 'weird' descriptions that lazily get attached to their music bother me, though - and this is a general thing for soundtrack instrumental music - if you're not hearing it in context (the radio/TV show it was written for) then what does 'weird' actually mean re. the Radiophonic stuff?
― Tom, Friday, 23 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
the album you're thinking of is "Radiophonic Workshop 21", which came out in 1979. I have all the first side and most of the second side and, yes, it is split as you say, and, yes, there's a lot of limp off- the-shelf hackwork on the second side, and, yes, the first side is fucking classic and the second side is mostly dud.
Side two does, however, contain Paddy Kingsland's "A Whisper From Space" (one of the very few analog-era pieces to chill the bone like the early Derbyshire and Fagandini stuff does) and Peter Howell's euphoric "Greenwich Chorus". Annoyingly I don't have two Kingsland tracks which were originally on the second side ("Broken Biscuit Club" and "Newton") because they'd almost certainly be better than the banalities from Roger Limb and Malcolm Clarke that ended up there (Limb's "Quirky" in particular is cursed by a kind of forced quasi- poppy wackiness which makes you gag).
But it does have Dick Mills's "Thomas the Rhymer", which is awesome.
― Robin Carmody, Friday, 23 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
"The kind of 'spacey' and 'weird' descriptions which lazily get attached to their music bother me, though"
And me - though something which annoys me perhaps even more is when people link *the whole* of the Workshop's output to some kind of Wilsonian "white heat of technology" ethos. I hear it in John Baker's work, obviously, from the titles down, but rarely anywhere else. Also when people only list the obvious people to have been influenced by the Workshop (the Pram / Broadcast / Plone continuum) without picking up on its wider echoes; Timbaland's production of "Try Again" and MBV's "Loveless" both pick up actually far more on the squelches, endlessly layers of sound, and interchanges between bass and melody line, that run through many of Baker's pieces. Basslines have been picked up on from all sources; Delia Derbyshire's "Pot Au Feu" has the rhythmic pulse of early house while John Baker's "Factors" is propelled by a bassline indistinguishable from that on Asian Dub Foundation's "Naxalite". That said, the subgenre of "frightening childlike music", which Pram have made their own, pretty much started with Delia; Broadcast sound like purists of the 58-64 era and Plone take their jauntiness from Roger Limb and their melancholia from Paddy Kingsland. And then there are the renegade one-offs; John Baker's fucking over of "O Come All Ye Faithful" with the noise of a till after each note and retitled "Christmas Commercial"; for a supposedly po-faced soundlab, this is the definition of pop's proud irreverence and disrespect for all holy source material.
You're right, though. I think it surprises certain people so much that such startling and unplaceable music was *written to order*, and funded by a public corporation (rather than some Romantic idea of The Unpaid, Starving Electronic Innovator) that they have to use lazy, cliched terms to express it because they can't get their head around it. Also, I think the "spacey" cliche may be down to people only being aware of the Dr Who music and not realising just how many different emotions and feelings were conveyed in the RW's output when the programme concerned required them.
Being constrained by writing for a purpose probably prevented the Workshop from succumbing to the worst excesses of prog-synth indulgence in the 70s; Delia's longer tracks like "Blue Veils And Golden Sands" and "The Delian Mode" are endlessly fascinating, but the more conventionally of-the-time Paddy Kingsland could go on too long when not writing for a purpose ("Vespucci", which was Kingsland pretty much indulging himself, is at least a minute too long). Some of his work sounds dated now, but "One-Eighty-One" is ferocious freakbeat worthy of Perry & Colombier, and he almost sounds at times like a kind of electronic folk fusionist; Kingsland's "Take Another Look" (written I think for some kind of nature / wildlife programme, and oh, you can tell) is essentially the Pentangle's "Light Flight" rendered electronically (a massive compliment, BTW), and as far from "the white heat of technology" as "Who Knows Where The Time Goes" is from "We Can Work It Out". His soundtrack to The Changes is unique and almost Arthurian in its resonance; what Mike Oldfield's "Hergest Ridge" would be if it wasn't so blandly, conventionally post-hippy and crap. In fact it's something of a scandal that you can buy "Hergest Ridge" in HMV but you can't buy The Changes soundtrack - hopefully Mark Ayres will bring justice about in the long term (he told me that The Changes is in his priority list).
And, yes, I will be adding all the above to my site :).
― Patrick, Friday, 23 March 2001 01:00 (twenty-three years ago) link
As a note, the Tenth Planet release on Ochre doesn't contain Radiophonic Workshop material, but is a pretty fine release all the same. See http://www.ochre.co.uk
Mark Cola
― DeliaDerbyshire.com, Sunday, 27 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
You might also like to know that I have been disgracefully lazy in my work compiling the site you suggested to me some time ago (he says, codifyingly).
― Robin Carmody, Sunday, 27 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Andrew L, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― might as well use the real name now ..., Saturday, 7 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Thanks for your time
― Peter Wicks, Saturday, 7 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
If you want me to copy for you his magical, almost neo-medieval 1973 album "The Fourth Dimension", and the other Kingsland stuff I have, mail me offlist. The quality varies, with some of the melodies sounding rather twee and overtly pretty, but at his best he's unmatchable in the "full arrangements and fairly conventional song structures" era of the RW. You might be interested in this: http://freespace.virgin.net/mark.campbell10/is22changeskingsland.htm
― rpc, Saturday, 7 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Anyway, I've e-mailed you off-list and eagerly await a reply. Also, I managed to get "The Earthmen" track off a friend who had this CD. I *think* it's still available. I'm sure I almost bought it online once. ;)
It's a pretty groovy track.. I love it.
― P Wicks, Tuesday, 7 August 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― ben*h, Tuesday, 2 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
(though they do repeat docs originally broadcast on this digital channel on BBC two and I'm sure this will turn eventually)
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 19 October 2003 12:46 (twenty years ago) link
Many good bits. I liked how all the tapes post-83 were going to be dumped but actually were stored in a room near the BBC orchestra for nearly 15 years and remained there bcz no one bothered to order the skip.
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 20 October 2003 09:09 (twenty years ago) link
Fortunately, she taped it, so HSA and I will watch it and report back.
― kate (kate), Monday, 20 October 2003 09:24 (twenty years ago) link
Anyone know where I can get a hold of that "Zwoooer oo-oo-oo" track? That sounded amazing on the program, but a quick scan of soulseek came up with nothing.
― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 20 October 2003 11:14 (twenty years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 20 October 2003 11:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Alan (Alan), Monday, 20 October 2003 11:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in Doncaster (Alex in Doncaster), Monday, 20 October 2003 11:57 (twenty years ago) link
I think there was a CD retrospective issued and it was reviewed in the wire a few months back. I will check on that too.
I was thinking that ending on a place like that would be a dream (of sorts anyway).
x-post: wonder whether that ray cathode single made the charts (it was said that it sold a few copies but no chart placement was given).
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 20 October 2003 12:02 (twenty years ago) link
the other little trope / joke in the programme was the clock stuck at two minutes to eight (19:58, 1958, geddit?) - except sometimes it seemed to show a slightly different time
great stuff anyway
― zebedee (zebedee), Monday, 20 October 2003 12:51 (twenty years ago) link
― zebedee (zebedee), Monday, 20 October 2003 12:53 (twenty years ago) link
― zebedee (zebedee), Monday, 20 October 2003 12:54 (twenty years ago) link
― zebedee (zebedee), Monday, 20 October 2003 12:56 (twenty years ago) link
― robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 20 October 2003 13:01 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 20 October 2003 13:17 (twenty years ago) link
― robin carmody (robin carmody), Monday, 20 October 2003 13:26 (twenty years ago) link
― stevem (blueski), Monday, 20 October 2003 15:01 (twenty years ago) link
Because I think that the VCR of the person who taped it was slightly off its timer, because we got ten minutes of some godawful Matthew Barney documentary before it, and it cut off the last ten minutes. And they were just started to get into the restoration and archiving of the library bit!
The clock and the floating bloke in the background REALLY irritated me, it seemed to just take the piss out of what was otherwise a quite wonderful program - both loving and serious.
You should have seen HSA go into fits of lust at the oscillator banks, though. And whatever a wobulator is, I want one!
― kate (kate), Monday, 27 October 2003 10:04 (twenty years ago) link
― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 27 October 2003 20:00 (twenty years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 00:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― Old Fart!!! (oldfart_sd), Thursday, 21 October 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 01:09 (nineteen years ago) link
― don, Thursday, 21 October 2004 04:40 (nineteen years ago) link
great that the delia derbyshire website is back. nice to hear Moogies Bloogies again.
― koogs (koogs), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:12 (nineteen years ago) link
http://www.delia-derbyshire.org for the real thing.
― Alba (Alba), Thursday, 21 October 2004 09:15 (nineteen years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 21 October 2004 12:37 (nineteen years ago) link
― Ian Edmond (ianedmond), Thursday, 21 October 2004 15:28 (nineteen years ago) link
The Alchemists of Sound
Thu 8 Feb, 11:20 pm - 12:20 am 60mins
BBC FOUR on BBC TWO
Alchemists of Sound traces the rise and fall of the Radiophonic Workshop, an in-house department established in 1958 to provide extraordinary sounds and music for the BBC's TV and radio services. Best known for its theme tunes to Blake's Seven, Blue Peter, Open University and The Body in Question and, of course, Doctor Who, this documentary reveals the complex techniques deployed by the Workshop long before synthesisers were invented.
The programme is narrated by Oliver Postgate, the voice behind the childrens TV classics Ivor the Engine, The Clangers and Bagpuss. [AD,S]
― Koogy Bloogies (koogs), Monday, 5 February 2007 16:43 (seventeen years ago) link
http://delia-derbyshire.cvol.net/
Not sure I approve of mp3s encoded from still-available CD releases but there you go.
― zebedee (zebedee), Monday, 5 February 2007 17:26 (seventeen years ago) link
― JimD (JimD), Monday, 5 February 2007 17:33 (seventeen years ago) link
He used to appear on Swap Shop showing you how to make a Vorgon Cruiser out of washing up bottles etc. Matt something IIRC.
He was a bizarre parallel of the RWS, with the same aesthetic of economically-restricted grandiose futurisism
― Phil Knight (PhilK), Monday, 5 February 2007 21:51 (seventeen years ago) link
― Koogy Bloogies (koogs), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 09:41 (seventeen years ago) link
― Phil Knight (PhilK), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:23 (seventeen years ago) link
Can anyone identify this snippet? Sounds Radiophonic to me.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=181C446376667DE0
― Alba, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 18:37 (sixteen years ago) link
Does anyone have a copy of the BBC doc mentioned upthread they'd be willing to share? I can trade for something like my DVD-R of "The Changes"(w/ Paddy Kingsland music. Quite awesome.) Really wanna see this!
― Capitaine Jay Vee, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 18:45 (sixteen years ago) link
Alba - hi, fairly certain your mystery tune is raymond scott- something off teh "manhattan research" 2cd set which is indeed very radiophonic
― bob snoom, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 19:37 (sixteen years ago) link
Fantastic, bob. Just checked the snippets on the Amazon page and it is indeed "Portofino" by Scott.
In the course of all that I found an ILM thread in which I noted that I really want to hear his stuff, about four years ago ...
Thanks.
― Alba, Wednesday, 24 October 2007 20:13 (sixteen years ago) link
Portofino 2, rather.
http://orpheusrecords.blogspot.com/2007/11/alchemists-of-sound-2003-documentary.html
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 18:22 (sixteen years ago) link
fantastic. thank you. i shan't do anything with it right now because, er, my bandwidth is rather tied up with something else :)
― grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 21 November 2007 18:24 (sixteen years ago) link
http://waxidermy.com/2006/06/06/j-matthews-electronic-music/
― Milton Parker, Monday, 7 April 2008 19:21 (sixteen years ago) link
http://www.mute.com/artists/publicArtistLoad.do?id=36105&forward=fullDiscography
release of 3 (2 reissues, 1 new compilation?) Workshop cds on 3rd nov.
no tracklistings given but the originals are here:http://www.discogs.com/release/173394http://www.discogs.com/release/173397
― koogs, Sunday, 5 October 2008 10:09 (fifteen years ago) link
hmm. i devoted many hours to downloading as much of that stuff as i could find. it wasn't easy. this is pretty joyous news.
― right, we all start when the drum machine starts, lads (grimly fiendish), Sunday, 5 October 2008 11:58 (fifteen years ago) link
http://www.amazon.co.uk/BBC-Radiophonic-Workshop-Retrospective/dp/B001GISONU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1224156834&sr=8-3
Assuming that tracklisting's good, that's going to be worth getting hold of. Plenty of tracks from '21', and a selection of stuff from 'The Changes'.
Hope it's right.
― chad yellowhammer, Thursday, 16 October 2008 11:36 (fifteen years ago) link
that's blindingly good. i managed to get hold of 21, but i'd certainly shell out for that.
― easy, lionel (grimly fiendish), Thursday, 16 October 2008 21:36 (fifteen years ago) link
AWESOME
Sorry its only up for another day....
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 26 December 2008 20:58 (fifteen years ago) link
I love the Mastered By Guy at the Exchange-type stuff.
― Plaxico (I know, right?), Friday, 26 December 2008 21:21 (fifteen years ago) link
New Tristram Cary lp out on trunk.http://www.boomkat.com/item.cfm?id=281201
― koogs, Friday, 26 March 2010 13:19 (fourteen years ago) link
"new"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jetzY-W78gg
love this, needs more rapping tho.
― Sir Chips Keswick (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 30 July 2011 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
...who?
http://www.mimaroglumusicsales.com/artists/frederick+charles+judd.html
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 25 January 2012 23:19 (twelve years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00g15x3
Sat 14 Jul 2012 09:00 BBC Radio 4 ExtraSat 14 Jul 2012 19:00 BBC Radio 4 Extra(it's a repeat from 2008)
Richard Coles tells the BBC's Radiophonic Workshop's extraordinary story.
In 1958 an extraordinary musical laboratory opened at the BBC. It was called the Radiophonic Workshop and provided music and sound for a wealth of BBC programmes, from The Goons to Dr Who.
With contributions from Coldcut, Dick Mills and Mark Ayres, Richard Coles explores the achievements of the unit and presents a carefully chosen selection of programmes showcasing the department's work:
The Dreams (05/01/1964)The Goons (02/02/1959)Inferno Revisited (17/04/1983)Relativity (1974)Electric Tunesmiths (30/12/1971)Bath Time (1976)
― koogs, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 23:35 (eleven years ago) link
This is SUCH a tune:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ121_LBW0E
― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 23:48 (eleven years ago) link
the Daphne Oram exhibit runs just a few more months at the Science Museum in London -
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/ORAMICS
― TracerHandVEVO (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 11 July 2012 00:17 (eleven years ago) link
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/62842000/jpg/_62842046_matthewherbert.jpg
― Mark G, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 08:36 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19568120
The BBC's Radiophonic Workshop, which created theme tunes and sound effects for programmes including Doctor Who and Blake's 7, is to reopen after 14 years.Composer Matthew Herbert, known for his use of "found sounds", has been appointed creative director.One of his first commissions is a "sonic memorial" to the BBC's Bush House building which, until recently, was the home of the World Service.The original workshop was known for its pioneering use of electronic sounds.Founded in 1958, it was best-known for creating the eerie swoosh of the Doctor Who theme tune, but its compositions were also used in numerous radio dramas, The Goon Show and The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.As well as music, the workshop created sound effects - from champagne corks popping to the distorted, strangulated voices of the Daleks.While the first workshop was based in the BBC's Maida Vale studios, the new incarnation will live online, at The Space, a new digital arts service developed by the Arts Council and the BBC.Herbert will lead "seven fellow cutting-edge collaborators" in making new sounds and music
Composer Matthew Herbert, known for his use of "found sounds", has been appointed creative director.
One of his first commissions is a "sonic memorial" to the BBC's Bush House building which, until recently, was the home of the World Service.
The original workshop was known for its pioneering use of electronic sounds.
Founded in 1958, it was best-known for creating the eerie swoosh of the Doctor Who theme tune, but its compositions were also used in numerous radio dramas, The Goon Show and The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
As well as music, the workshop created sound effects - from champagne corks popping to the distorted, strangulated voices of the Daleks.
While the first workshop was based in the BBC's Maida Vale studios, the new incarnation will live online, at The Space, a new digital arts service developed by the Arts Council and the BBC.
Herbert will lead "seven fellow cutting-edge collaborators" in making new sounds and music
― Mark G, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 08:37 (eleven years ago) link
REPLACE MURRAY GOLD WITH THE SOUND OF A DEAD PIG
― ┐(´ー`)┌ (sic), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 09:27 (eleven years ago) link
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/62842000/jpg/_62842046_matthewherbert.jpgI imagine this is what Kraftwerk's accountant looks like.
― Emeritus Professor of LOLology (snoball), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 10:42 (eleven years ago) link
Anyone going to this:http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/visitmuseum/events/talks/electronic_music.aspx ?
― Jeff W, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 11:55 (eleven years ago) link
Just for fun:http://webaudio.prototyping.bbc.co.uk/
― Zweitgeist (doo dah), Friday, 21 December 2012 01:49 (eleven years ago) link
haha, there's a konami code on the ring modulator that lets you use a live input.
― wk, Friday, 21 December 2012 02:32 (eleven years ago) link
http://www.factmag.com/2014/02/18/the-radiophonic-workshop-announce-substantial-uk-tour/
― night boat to mega therion (NickB), Tuesday, 18 February 2014 14:33 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA6Fb0nuAYw
1/7
― OutdoorFish, Tuesday, 18 February 2014 18:49 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N1I_03wPEE
― OutdoorFish, Tuesday, 18 February 2014 18:50 (ten years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaqvAH7R34
― OutdoorFish, Tuesday, 18 February 2014 18:51 (ten years ago) link
http://theradiophonicworkshop.co.uk/file/do_come_in.html
was going to go to the Glasgow gig this evening - get well soon Dr Mills
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 21 March 2014 12:15 (ten years ago) link
And why not
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtgGkUuxglI
― Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 14 March 2015 18:41 (nine years ago) link
Student builds Daphne Oram’s unfinished ‘Mini-Oramics’
― Larry 'Leg' Smith (Tom D.), Tuesday, 31 May 2016 14:10 (seven years ago) link
that's fantastic
wish I were in london for this one:
http://www.lcorchestra.co.uk/events/deepminimalism/
In June the LCO will open the Southbank Centre’s DEEP∞MINIMALISM festival with a world premiere of Daphe Oram’s groundbreaking work Still Point.
The piece is brought to life by the LCO and composer Shiva Feshareki, who performs on turntables an electronic manipulation of the recorded orchestra, in duet with the live orchestra. Oram’s ambitious work of 1949 predates the work of an entire generation of composers and artists in its radical use of live electronics.
― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 31 May 2016 18:01 (seven years ago) link
Ugh, I just turned on BBC4 and this was on, why don't I pay more attention to the Proms (answer - 'cuz it's usually shite)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/ebzcd4
― Father Ted in Forkhandles (Tom D.), Friday, 27 July 2018 22:52 (five years ago) link
It's very good.
― Mark G, Monday, 30 July 2018 11:24 (five years ago) link
The Proms usually throws up something worthwhile. Loved the Ravi Shankar / Philip Glass prom from 2017.
― millmeister, Monday, 30 July 2018 12:52 (five years ago) link
The songs of Scott Walker was a nice one last year, too
― lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 30 July 2018 12:54 (five years ago) link
I just heard that David Cain passed away :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvAcUHSWEGw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WNLG7xZbeE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMZkRB1-5ek
― Maresn3st, Sunday, 6 October 2019 11:45 (four years ago) link
Richard Yeoman-Clark just died as well.
"More sad news reaches us of the passing of another colleague, Richard Yeoman-Clark, who apparently left us on September 16th after a short illness. Richard spent seven years at the BBC Radiophonic Workshop, starting in 1971. He (like Dick Mills) was more technician than composer but took to the EMS Synthi 100 like a duck to water, creating many memorable works such as 'Waltz Antipathy' and 'Mysterioso' – the latter created for the first season of Blake’s Seven, perhaps his greatest claim to fame, for which he created all the initial signature sounds before Elizabeth Parker took over part way through season two."
― Jeff W, Sunday, 6 October 2019 17:52 (four years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74qzbKBe5wA
― Jeff W, Sunday, 6 October 2019 17:53 (four years ago) link
that david cain lp is 50p for the download from trunk records website.
(they have a bunch of other radiophonic stuff of course, the tristram cary lp, the two john baker, the tomorrow people soundtrack, some delia things... website navigation not the best though)
― koogs, Tuesday, 8 October 2019 10:05 (four years ago) link
Aired today, and up for download currently, a new radio feature about and interviewing Workshop members.
― Steppin' RZA (sic), Thursday, 6 August 2020 11:49 (three years ago) link
Live lockdown show using internet latency as a tape delay, coming up on November 22
― edited for dog profanity (sic), Friday, 30 October 2020 23:41 (three years ago) link
Whoa!
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 31 October 2020 00:09 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjiSkR6di9k
― huge rant (sic), Monday, 23 November 2020 23:37 (three years ago) link
Stumbled across Daphne Oram being featured on one of those Mr. Cholmondely-Warner style documentaries (from 1960) on Talking Pictures.
― Renaissance of the Celtic Trumpet (Tom D.), Friday, 16 June 2023 19:37 (ten months ago) link