h-j syberberg's 'hitler: a film from germany' -- c/d

that might come later.

Obvious, I guess. But doesn't it seem strange that they'd seek to repress it? I mean, I can understand unpopular/done-to-death. But the way you're describing it, I'd find its extreme obscurity more shameful than what it is seeking to attack.

Anyway, I've finished tape 1 of 3 on the PAL>NTSC conversion tapes I have. Unfortunately this has the effect (though not unexpected, since it was converted from 2 masters) of cutting it off in the middle of part 2, right in the middle of the speech by Hitler's spirit over Wagner's grave. But at least it's not a narrative film - the impressionistic nature of it means that missing a little tiny bit of it has little cumulative diminishment of the work as a whole.

Have you tried Videodrom?

the final part is the most problematic, so that's unfortunately coloured my reading of it -- it hates hitler for poisoning for ever the german romantic inheritance; and, jarringly, goes on what i'd call an anti-pr0n tangent.

there's too much in it for any coherent 'classic or dud' type judgement, alas. and of course your mileage may vary according to your knowledge of german culture/familiarity with karl may, ludwig II, etc etc.

and more specifically it's an attack on 'fascinating fascism', the 70s hitler industry, which has moved on since.

after seeing most of it on thursday, c5 played 'battle of britain' (1969) a film i know from my youth. interesting perspective -- i'd quite like to write a book about 60s/70s war movies. i'll be back.

it wd be a way of looking at the limits of theory, how often it cuts out the actual viewing experience and sometimes turns the messy experience into something more manageable -- rosenbaum's review of peter wollen's new book in cineaste takes this line, and it's one i often agree with.

i'm going to read boll's book b4 i actually see any straub i think.

also i've heard their more recent work is easier to swallow. i'd like to see "sicilia!"

they`re probably the filmmakers most indebted to contemporaneous developments in music since jean epstein and so on in the 20s

aren't we forgetting hype williams?

Overall a very thoughtful exploration and expressive statement on the power of cinema and its dangerous relationship to 20th century fascism but worth seeing now because of all the ways it manages to provide an interesting framework for thinking about the media's role in the rise of neo-conservatism in America. It's really unfortunate that it's such a rare film to find.

i saw straub/huillet's "workers, peasants." i don't know what to say about it. i was proud of myself for not walking out.

Is the Syberberg Hitler film available on DVD yet?

the later films are considerably more determinedly difficult--often not much more than non-actors reciting (not acting), in occasionally hypnotically monotonous fashion (and often in languages i don't understand), very involved texts. of course they are photographed (and recorded live! in synch sound! always!) with great delicacy, but "workers, peasants" tested my patience quite a bit nonetheless. i found it of some value as a limit case, but i had a hard time conceiving a *positive* value for it.

http://www.syberberg.de/Syberberg2/Events_2003/uncut.html

Is there any sound to this?

As in I know there is but its not coming up. Not sure if its a plug-in issue.

Downloaded a torrent of it and spent much of the weekend on this.

Great, great film -- for all of its flaws that would become apparent if you scrutinize that script, but as a piece of cinema its so necessary. I don't have that Sontag piece now but I remember thinking I probably want to watch this but as it took me ten years to get round to it so I wonder if the piece has almost shut the conversation?

Sontag was silly to call him "the most important film-maker since Godard" or what have you. Even so its as interesting a statement as Night Porter or Salo. Its sorta interesting how Syberberg stands outside New German cinema, he is a lot more going for him than fucking Wenders (I like Wenders but come on).

Also well done BBC for partly funding. Its not something they could re-screen -- its so alien to how they make TV programmes now. Plus it requires an engagement with Germanic literary culture they are not interested in and its attacking a lot of the war documentaries -- I can see Syberberg's point even if I am not going to stop watching World at War when it comes on or anything. It takes a couple of risks with highly strung emotion, the whole thing is so Wagnerian as total work of art, an incredible attempt to rescue that avant-garde from the fascistic associations.

This sounds amazing.

I cracked the sound thing for the syberberg.de versions - browser plug-ins hate them, but you can download the .movs by getting the absolute URLs, then VLC (or, presumably, another standalone player) can handle them.

Obviously don't do this unless you've contributed to the Nossendorf steeple restoration fund.

So that's what I was doing wrong ;-)

TS: hitler a film from germany vs Berlin Alexanderplatz

Posted a poll.

Also forgot to say I got a lot of Citizen Kane vibes out of this, all good!

Fassbinder was virulently opposed to him

Syberberg that is, not Hitler (lol). Fassbinder thought he was just a rip off of Werner Schroeter I think?

Well this film quite diff from any Schroeter film and also this one is very specifically about Wagner and his project. Schroeter I think engages a lot more widely with operas and arias and its roots in working class life.

I suppose Syberberg's politics had something to do with it too.

That, plus they are v different filmmakers.

They shared some actors, or rather Fassbinder people acted in his films, Harry Baer was the lead in 'Ludwig'.

(btw I've only seen Ludwig (but it was when I was school probably) and Parsifal.)

Right, I hadn't noticed. Quite like to see Ludwig next, just to see how it compares with the Visconti film.

I also watched a part of Shoah at the weekend. In the intro to Hitler the circus master introduces the film with words to the effect that 'this is not a film about the war and the suffering and a body count that tends to operate' in these other wwii documentaries. You see his point when in Shoah Lanzmann keeps a close up to a crying jew that is recounting this awful episode.

Ludwig is my favorite of what I've seen (which includes Karl May and the first half of Hitler).