In Damnation of...Horses by Patti Smith

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Early version of Title Track...

(Oh Horses, you´re so fine
you´re so fine you blow my mind, hey Horses, hey Horses)
(Oh Horses, you´re so fine
you´re so fine you blow my mind, hey Horses, hey Horses)
(Oh Horses, you´re so fine
you´re so fine you blow my mind, hey Horses, hey Horses)
(Oh Horses, you´re so fine
you´re so fine you blow my mind, hey Horses)
Hey Horses!
You´ve been around all night and that´s a little long
You think you´ve got the right but I think you´ve got it wrong
Why can´t you say goodnight so you can take me home, Horses
´Cause when you say you will, it always means you won´t
You´re givin´ me the chills, baby, please baby don´t
Every night you still leave me all alone, Horses
Oh Horses, what a pity you don´t understand
You take me by the heart when you take me by the hand
Oh Horses, you´re so pretty, can´t you understand
It´s guys like you Horses
Oh, what you do Horses, do Horses
Don´t break my heart, Horses
Hey Horses!
Now when you take me by the - who´s ever gonna know
Everytime you move I let a little more show
There´s somethin´ we can use, so don´t say no, Horses
So come on and give it to me any way you can
Any way you wanna do it, I´ll take it like a man
Oh please, baby, please, don´t leave me in the jam, Horses
Oh Horses, what a pity you don´t understand
You take me by the heart when you take me by the hand
Oh Horses, you´re so pretty, can´t you understand
It´s guys like you Horses
Oh, what you do Horses, do Horses
Don´t break my heart, Horses
(Oh Horses, you´re so fine
you´re so fine you blow my mind, hey Horses, hey Horses)
(Oh Horses, you´re so fine
you´re so fine you blow my mind, hey Horses, hey Horses)
(Oh Horses, you´re so fine
you´re so fine you blow my mind, hey Horses, hey Horses)
(Oh Horses, you´re so fine
you´re so fine you blow my mind, hey Horses)
Oh Horses, what a pity you don´t understand
You take me by the heart when you take me by the hand
Oh Horses, you´re so pretty, can´t you understand
It´s guys like you Horses
Oh, what you do Horses, do Horses
Don´t break my heart, Horses
Oh Horses, what a pity you don´t understand
You take me by the heart when you take me by the hand
Oh Horses, you´re so pretty, can´t you understand
It´s guys like you Horses
Oh, what you do Horses, do Horses
Don´t break my heart, Horses
Oh Horses, what a pity you don´t understand
You take me by the heart when you take me by the hand
Oh Horses, you´re so pretty, can´t you understand
It´s guys like you Horses
Oh, what you do Horses, do Horses
Don´t break my heart, Horses
Oh Horses, what a pity you don´t understand
You take me by the heart when you take me by the hand
Oh Horses, you´re so pretty, can´t you understand
It´s guys like you Horses
Oh, what you do Horses, do Horses
Don´t break my heart, Horses

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 09:57 (11 years ago) Permalink

I don't care what Michael Stipe says, or Bono, or anyone else (including Alex in NYC). This was a truly life-changing, life-saving record for me back then, and it still holds up as a glorious messy confluence of art-rock, proto-punk, Catholic-guilt, French-Romantic gutter-speak, and tender pissy defiance.

You know, those of us who have loved this record, either back in the day, or since (although especially back-in-the-day), simply cannot ditch its brilliance just because there's now a backlash to its canonisation.

That's what I think, anyway.

David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 10:21 (11 years ago) Permalink

Above is my knee-jerk. Here's my reaction after reading the whole thread:

I mean, "pretentious"? WTF? Not only is "pretentious" not a pejorative, but with Leonard Cohen cited as an example of same, we're s'posed to somehow accept this bizarre conclusion? Len is also great, people!!!

There's something in that each-subsequent-record-gets-worse thing, though.

Easter is a very nice record (moments of beauty, but moments of intense awkwardness) that's not in the ballpark of Horses in terms of impact. Importance. Sigh. I don't really understand what "importance" means, objectively. Having said that, Gone Again is really the only other good Patti Smith album. Her output over a long career is patchy.

None of which takes away from the amazing Horses.

David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 10:39 (11 years ago) Permalink

Why is it important anyway?

Nu-Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 10:46 (11 years ago) Permalink

Because it's canonized?

But wait... wasn't it canonized 'cause it was deemed "important"?

Some love it, some hate it, some are indifferent. What's the answer? A show of hands? This "important" thing seems kind of, well... silly.

David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 10:54 (11 years ago) Permalink

ALEX IN THA MUTHAFUCKING NYC:
Do ya or do ya not know Mrk Prindle, ya fokker? You should REALLY check out his review page.

Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 11:52 (11 years ago) Permalink

I'm surprisingly fond of it. I think I listened to it at the exact right time for me to listen to it - early 20s, miserable but energetic, working in a bookshop (even that bookshop) not an office so I didn't need to feel defensive about it etc etc. - basically just vulnerable to Poetry In Rock or whatever it was Patti did. I know I will never enjoy it as much again and in fact I might well never listen to it again but I still like it.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:03 (11 years ago) Permalink

I like the cover more than the record

The Spotlight Kid (kid), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:04 (11 years ago) Permalink

Holy crap! Toni Basil's Mickey is derived from Horses!!!

Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:13 (11 years ago) Permalink

Len is also great, people!!!

Yeah, "You Can't Stop The Bum Rush" rules. I'd never established a connection between 'em and Patti Smith, but I guess "Horses" shares that chaotic throw-everything-at-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks mood that that album has.

What? Oh, Cohen. He's great too. "The Essential" rocked my Spring of 2003.

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:27 (11 years ago) Permalink

I'm with the people who dig the Mick Jagger side, if I understand that correctly. What surprised me about this album on first listening to it were the pop songs - 'Redondon Beach', 'Free Monday', 'Kimberley', 'Break It Up' (I'd call 'em pop songs, anyway). Those are the ones that keep me coming back - those and 'Gloria', anyway. I could kinda take or leave most of the second side, with the exception of the version of 'My Generation' which ends the CD version, which might be better than anything on the album proper.

Flyboy (Flyboy), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:45 (11 years ago) Permalink

It sounds better on vinyl.

dave225 (Dave225), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 12:47 (11 years ago) Permalink

if pissing in the river had been a sisters of mercy song it would be alex's favorite song. it is goth-rock greatness.(and it has great placement in the movie Times Square and that other one where cole hauser plays the scary boyfriend and that totally awesome girl from to die for dances around to it all sad in the riot grrrl's bedroom.) none of this has anything to do with horses.

thiscorrosion, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 13:10 (11 years ago) Permalink

Alex, do you know fellow New Yorker Mark Prindle?

Afraid not. Should I?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:05 (11 years ago) Permalink

I mean, she rocks pretty hard for a chick.

I can't fucking handle it. Do me a favor, flush your head down the shitter for making such an ignorant, sexist statement.

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:13 (11 years ago) Permalink

if pissing in the river had been a sisters of mercy song it would be alex's favorite song.

Dream on, Wrongboy.

Hey David A.....calm thyself. I'm not organizing a goon squad that's going to go around house-to-house, confiscating copies of Horses, just so we can start a big bonfire, Kilroy Was Here-stylee. I just think the album in question (Patti's, not Styx's) is an undeservedly lionized bit of pompous schlock.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:14 (11 years ago) Permalink

So is pompous not a pejorative either?

Burr (Burr), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:26 (11 years ago) Permalink

well, lots of people like it apparently

so i'm asking, once again, why some people seem to want to go out of their way to malign Patti Smith ? this isn't the first thread to set out to dismiss not only this record but Smith herself.

why is it so important to dump on this relatively concise artist (she hasn't made many records and has admitted that it would be worse to make too many bad ones than vice versa) ?

(oh, ok, most people on this thread seem to like her, but that "Loathsome New Yorkers" thread, that just made the new yorkers that talked up the original tabloid week-end "feature" and it's readers appear to be the loathsome ones)

george gosset (gegoss), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:27 (11 years ago) Permalink

Well, I'm damn well using it as a pejorative!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:28 (11 years ago) Permalink

see Total Eclipse Of The Heart thread, Burr

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:28 (11 years ago) Permalink

why is it so important to dump on this relatively concise artist

I don't think I'd have worded it quite that way, but fair enough.... because of the disparity between the quality of her work and the praise said work enjoys.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:36 (11 years ago) Permalink

Ahh, you should def. check out Mark Prindle's site then:
www.markprindle.com

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:44 (11 years ago) Permalink

alright, alright I got it. I'll check it out.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 15:45 (11 years ago) Permalink

I was in art school in NYC when it came out, and you can't imagine the impact. It was a record that everybody had to have an opinion about. (Of course, a lot of people hated it even then.) Coming after the Stooges and the Dolls, I don't know if it was quite as groundbreaking as it's said to be, but it sure felt that way at the time. I still love it, but every year it feels more idiosyncratic and less "classic." Kind of like a female Captain Beefheart.

Not that Chuck, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 17:20 (11 years ago) Permalink

>ps) Horses is also way better than any album that Sleater Kinney, Bjork, Tori Amos, Sinead Oconnor, or PJ Harvey ever did. So there.
So does that make Horses the best album recorded by someone with a vagina (or is there another connection between these artists that I am missing)? -- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...), December 2nd, 2003.
I think it's just Chuck fighting the real enemy again, or something.<

Actually, I think all those artists were pretty clearly in Patti's lineage, and not just because they're women. But if it makes you any happier, *Horses* is *also* catchier, funnier, sexier, more rocking, and more memorable than any album that Tom Waits, Nick Cave, Radiohead, U2, REM, Pink Floyd, the Grateful Dead, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pavement, Roy Orbison, Bob Marley, Tupac, Boogie Down Productions, Tribe Called Qwest, the Misfits, Iron Maiden, the Smiths, or Sisters of Fucking Mercy ever made. Okay?

chuck, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 18:09 (11 years ago) Permalink

No more horses horses

David Eugene Vinson (Gaughin), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 18:16 (11 years ago) Permalink

Well, now that you put it that way, *Agents of Fortune* IS probably the best album with Patti ON it. (And that came AFTER *Horses*, wow!)

chuck, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 18:29 (11 years ago) Permalink

From Metal Sludge's 20 Questions today with the drummer from Sum 41:

11. If you could put together the worst concert bill possible, what 5 bands would you put on it?
1.Jet
2.Journey
3.Patti Smith
4.Wham!
5.Glass Tiger


Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 18:56 (11 years ago) Permalink

Well jeez, everything's better than the Red Hot Chili Peppers!

Gear! (Gear!), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 19:18 (11 years ago) Permalink

Damn, Chuck...at least go down to yr local Church of Rock and Roll and save yourself! Also, do 'bout a 1000 Louie Louie's.

Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 20:27 (11 years ago) Permalink

Please let Sisters of Fucking Mercy be a tribute band that does "This Corrosion" in full-on latex fetish gear...

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:02 (11 years ago) Permalink

*Horses* is *also* catchier, funnier, sexier, more rocking, and more memorable than any album that Tom Waits, Nick Cave, Radiohead, U2, REM, Pink Floyd, the Grateful Dead, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pavement, Roy Orbison, Bob Marley, Tupac, Boogie Down Productions, Tribe Called Qwest, the Misfits, Iron Maiden, the Smiths, or Sisters of Fucking Mercy ever made. Okay?


I can't help noticing you negelected to mention Kix, Chuck!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:06 (11 years ago) Permalink

Why would I do that, Alex? I've got integrity, for crissakes.

chuck, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:10 (11 years ago) Permalink

Heh. At the very least, you're consistent, Chuck. Salut!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:10 (11 years ago) Permalink

I'd agree except for the Low End Theory maybe. You gave up on Tribe after the debut, right Chuck?

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:14 (11 years ago) Permalink

Look, Chuck, all those other bands on your list are all hotly debated here....but why go pickin' on poor Roy Orbison?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:21 (11 years ago) Permalink

I honestly can't stand Roy O's voice; there's something really un-grounded and, um, proto-Chris Isaak (or even proto Perry Farrel or proto guy in Blind Melon like) about the way he floats up to high notes. It's always sounded very unnatural to me (though obviously, I grant you that's just ME); I just don't get pleasure out of the guy.

And I never even heard a Tribe Called Qwest SONG I liked much, though honestly I haven't actually listed to *Low End Theory* in centuries. They always struck me as really prissy or contained or reserved or something. Is the debut the one I reviewed in Rolling Stone?

chuck, Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:28 (11 years ago) Permalink

Hey David A.....calm thyself. I'm not organizing a goon squad that's going to go around house-to-house, confiscating copies of Horses, just so we can start a big bonfire, Kilroy Was Here-stylee. I just think the album in question (Patti's, not Styx's) is an undeservedly lionized bit of pompous schlock.

Ha, yeah, you couldn't have picked a better example if you'd wanted to wound me in my heart if you'd tried! That record had a massive impact on me. I'd even go as far as to utter (quietly) that cliché about lives being saved, etc. So, no wonder you picked up on my lack of calmness, heh. Subjective taste-driven outrage aside, the only part I really mean is the lionization thing -- it's unfair to blame the album for it, but life's unfair I suppose...

Anyway, in my world of one, it's unthinkable to like the Sisters but hate Horses, ha!

David A. (Davant), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:52 (11 years ago) Permalink

yeah you reviewed the debut. Oh and Red Hot Chili Peppers' "The Zephyr Song" is catchier, funnier, sexier, more rocking, and more memorable than anything from Horses (ok maybe not sexier depending on whether hearing Anthony Keidis say "supa-friendly aviator" is like a cold shower on yer nads). But it's on By The Way so you probably didn't hear it.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:55 (11 years ago) Permalink

prissy or contained or reserved
I think you're mistaking a band for their fans again. Though I haven't heard that debut so you might be right on that one.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 2 December 2003 23:56 (11 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, in my world of one, it's unthinkable to like the Sisters but hate Horses, ha!

I see no correllation sound-wise between the Sisters of Mercy and Patti Smith (although Andrew does cite Horses on his list of favorite records on the official site. Then again, Andrew also cites a Stone Temple Pilots record, so go know.)

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

so why wasn't Horses in Stairway to Hell, then?

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:03 (11 years ago) Permalink

strangely enough, i've never heard this one. my first encounter w/ ms. smith was her shitty eighties "people have the power," which was lyrically hippy-bullshit (of the sort that zappa and fogerty would have made much fun of had it been around in the sixties) and musically big-eighties/U2-robbie robertson bombast. and i was so sickened that i never dug deeper.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:04 (11 years ago) Permalink

>>so why wasn't Horses in Stairway to Hell, then?<<

Because it's not as metal as *Radio Ethiopia*, probably. (But it's still better, and it still rocked harder. "Gloria" can do that to a record, you know? Even go ask Santa Esmeralda. Or Laura Branigan!)

chuck, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:07 (11 years ago) Permalink

Oh do lets leave Laura Branigan out of this!

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:09 (11 years ago) Permalink

Hey Alex, did I ever tell you about my former brother in law Marvin the crazy chef? He used to SWEAR a riff in "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was stolen from Sisters of Mercy! (And Michael Freedberg says all the dark goth metal bands I love rip them off, too.) I used to like them okay myself; I just thought Red Lorry Yellow Lorry were more fun.

chuck, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:11 (11 years ago) Permalink

I see no correllation sound-wise between the Sisters of Mercy and Patti Smith

Nah, me neither (although you might arguably find more "gothic" in Easter). It was a failed joke at my own expense -- ie/ I like these two things, so how can anyone not?

(Interesting that AE cites Horses, though. I didn't know that.)

David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:12 (11 years ago) Permalink

the only correlation was that pissing in the river would make an excellent goth-rock song if done by a goth-rock band. type o negative should seriously consider it.

islandscott, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:12 (11 years ago) Permalink

A better album than Horses, by the way:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDCASS80311061622542118&sql=Aosj20r6at48x

Sorry, Alex!

(If the link doesn't work, just look up *The Best of Branigan* on AMG.)

chuck, Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:15 (11 years ago) Permalink

He used to SWEAR a riff in "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was stolen from Sisters of Mercy!

Hmmmm. Hadn't heard that one. I always thought it was a rip-off of "More than a Feelin'".

(And Michael Freedberg says all the dark goth metal bands I love rip them off, too.)

Who is Michael Freedburg that he should be making such allegations?

I used to like them okay myself; I just thought Red Lorry Yellow Lorry were more fun.

Who got the notion that I have a Sisters of Mercy tatoo on my arm? I like them, but I wouldn't take a bullet for them or anything. They certainly made more than their share of dubious records. I like everything up to and including First and Last and Always. After that, s'alright, but the magic had largely dissipated for me. Floodland is pretty good. Apart from "Ribbons", most of Vision Thing is a phone-in.

Yeah, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry were cool (though not sure I'd categorically refer to them as "fun").

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 3 December 2003 00:17 (11 years ago) Permalink


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