just because someone is nice to you doesn't mean they are going to save you. WTF did you want?
― akm, Thursday, 6 September 2018 18:44 (five years ago) link
I'd like to point out that several takes here (and elsewhere) are a lot more dismissive of the power dynamic involved than I ever was and I firmly expect everyone who decided that me saying "blow job" was insensitive to be even more outraged.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 6 September 2018 18:48 (five years ago) link
oh boy i thought you were so insensitive when you said "blow job"
fuck off
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 18:51 (five years ago) link
i've got thoughts about this that are more complicated than "wow that tumblr person sure is [x]" that i haven't entirely disentangled yet but if you're pining for even more boundariless years of fan/artist relationships then idk what to tell you, read the fucking weinstein thread
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 18:52 (five years ago) link
what a gross and stupid and unnecessary thing to say and then get fucking defensive about
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 18:54 (five years ago) link
Me thinks the Princess protests too much for someone calling others "defensive."
But hate-post again, please. Extra spittle if you please.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:11 (five years ago) link
Wow cool poster
― faculty w1fe (silby), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:14 (five years ago) link
I am probably not going to give the most "woke" take
a solid sign you should stop typing
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:14 (five years ago) link
You're right, I should have let the comment stand without the disclaimer.
Bringing up Weinstein in this matter is a sign you should never have typed in the first place. False equivalence gave us Donald Trump, you know.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:17 (five years ago) link
jfcnative
― coetzee.cx (wins), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:19 (five years ago) link
can there be a trump corollary to godwin's law
― maura, Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:21 (five years ago) link
i've got thoughts about this that are more complicated
I elaborated when I said "The dynamics of celebrity and fans are a lot different than they were not very long ago." You ignored that. If you'd rather just be outraged, I can't tell you not to be. Your choice of target is a head-scratcher I will concede.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:22 (five years ago) link
It’s cool that this discussion about a community member of ours being called out for some possibly questionable behavior is now about some rando insulting people
― faculty w1fe (silby), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:23 (five years ago) link
i was fine with that explanation until you were a shithead about my complaint just a few minutes later!!!! xp
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:24 (five years ago) link
NYCNative is a longtime poster iirc
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
it's true
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:26 (five years ago) link
We can compare that questionable behavior of the community member of ours to what Harvey Weinstein did instead.
Why isn't that more offensive than an offhand reference to consensual oral sex?
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:27 (five years ago) link
no good is gonna come of this discussion
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:28 (five years ago) link
i was about to apologize for misreading your v poorly-written initial post but xp
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:28 (five years ago) link
i also now hate that i told you to read a thread on ile about abuses of power
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:29 (five years ago) link
I have zero desire to fight, believe it or not. And maybe I am on edge because a friend I have known for 30 years died last night. If so, I apologize. Whatever, I'll bow out.
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:30 (five years ago) link
i am very sorry about that <3
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:32 (five years ago) link
also one of the reasons i haven't actually organized my thoughts about this is bc it involves someone who posts here, and it'd be very difficult to do it as carefully as i want without feeling i was applying a microscope to the interpersonal dynamic of one person who i sorta know through the internet and one person i don't know at all
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:36 (five years ago) link
Here’s my take after thinking about this this morning: if the screencapped conversations from OP with j0hn are real and there’s no reason to presume they’re faked, j0hn certainly laid some kind of emotional burden over a period of time on a much younger fan after meeting once after a show. This is an irresponsible thing for anyone to do, dropping emotional need bombs in private communications with a less mature near-stranger. If there is indeed a pattern of this behavior (and this is by no means clear) it’s something that j0hn should find a forum to own up to and address how he will stop doing it, because the power differential in being an older artist who a lot of young fans really look up to means that he is unlikely to be in a properly reciprocal friendship with anyone very young he meets after a show.That said: Difficult relationships are a thing that can happen and leave people badly hurt, and I don’t think that’s a scandal.
― faculty w1fe (silby), Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:38 (five years ago) link
I'll walk back my prior dismissiveness on this after some thought. I can see how this can be complicated. it's not clear to me from the screenshots what was so emotional or burdensome about it, but in the abstract, I can imagine something like this being weird to navigate. Probably unfair for me to just slam hero worshipping fans as well; obviously they exist, and even if I just think of j0hn as someone I know from ILX and FB some shows and book readings and not some savior, it's obvious some people do think that way.
― akm, Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:56 (five years ago) link
My take, abridged: a self-professed superfan-cum-stalker is co-opting the language of "abuse" and "accountability" to further their obsession with their quarry.
The stalker's transparent toxification of musician's relationship with fans, musician's relationship with wife, and further bids for attention from musician, make it unbearably clear to me what is actually going on.
― fgti is for (flamboyant goon tie included), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:11 (five years ago) link
I trust your read on this a whole lot fgti, thanks for posting
― faculty w1fe (silby), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:18 (five years ago) link
yes, a voice of experience
― imago, Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:19 (five years ago) link
― faculty w1fe (silby), Thursday, September 6, 2018 1:18 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah same
your post on this was basically my untangled thoughts silby, so thank you for that, much as i'm now rethinking them
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:20 (five years ago) link
it is necessary to have empathy for all parties in a scenario like this
― imago, Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:21 (five years ago) link
idk that's how i go into things
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:22 (five years ago) link
well yeah, but sometimes most everyone (myself included) could do with the reminder
― imago, Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:24 (five years ago) link
to clarify, when i posted that link upthread i meant it as "why people believe this shld have been made public" & not a 100% endorsement, although i did think it voiced valid concerns. am also rethinking after fgti's post
― lowercase (eric), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:27 (five years ago) link
― imago, Thursday, September 6, 2018 1:24 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
oh sorry my brain switched the first two words in your post
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:28 (five years ago) link
This type of thing happened to Jerry lee Lewis all the time
― kornrulez6969, Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:29 (five years ago) link
i reread the post b/c i was worried i'd been too dismissive earlier and yeah, i think fgti is otm
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:33 (five years ago) link
I have more empathy for the "other party" than they probably deserve, if only because this individual is posting call-out posts on Tumblr rather than, say, mailing bombs to their target's family or sitting outside their idol's apartment with a copy of Catcher In The Rye. Blaming another person for your pain is a highly effective way of sublimating that pain-- everybody does it. However: it does not mitigate or resolve that pain. This individual will only find their pain resolved through other sources, not destroying the life of a former friend who has requested "no contact". My fury at this situation is not directed toward the "other party" so much as it is toward the way that Tumblr and Twitter have corroded the very real, very important cause and language of Restorative Justice and essentially granted any stalker, obsessed fan, ex-friend, ex-lover or whomstever a licence for "sanctioned abuse"-- because that is what this person is doing, they are abusing this musician. Textbook abuse. Not "oh he befriended me and he's old and should know better" ""abuse"". Targeting an individual's livelihood, an individual's marriage, toxifying the musician's relationship with their fans, and that musician's fan's relationship with that musician's music, implying that an individual's very human expressions of neediness and human contact with others is somehow covering up some sinister sexual impulse: this is abuse. And it is the co-opting of words like "abuse" and "accountability" by individuals who would-- unlike the musician in question-- actively seek to do harm to others? that is what fills me with fury today.
― fgti is for (flamboyant goon tie included), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:35 (five years ago) link
Can I admit that I read through (with some skimming; it's long) the fan's Tumblr and kept waiting for a bomb that, as far as I can discern, never dropped?
― Police, Academy (cryptosicko), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:36 (five years ago) link
I feel sick to my stomach about this whole thing and feel really bad about JD and feel like this should be locked or something.
― kurt schwitterz, Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:38 (five years ago) link
bad for JD*
fire coming off that fgti post
― imago, Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:39 (five years ago) link
lock thread
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:40 (five years ago) link
implying that an individual's very human expressions of neediness and human contact with others is somehow covering up some sinister sexual impulse
this is what bugged me hard about the tumblr post
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:40 (five years ago) link
glad to see we're all piling on this young person here
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:45 (five years ago) link
how wonderful it must be for someone who's like 20, who is clearly traumatized and on the receiving end of some communication that is substantially less than ideal given the power differential to be compared to people who mail bombs(!) or shot john lennon(!!)
also the original post had other people reporting similar weirdness, so that's a hell of a lot of people to be accusing of being stalkers
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:47 (five years ago) link
literally there is no possible way on Earth this thread goes in a positive direction for anyone
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:48 (five years ago) link
― The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, September 6, 2018 1:40 PM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:50 (five years ago) link
Agreed. Locking this temporarily.
― mod, Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:51 (five years ago) link
So there’s this new EP...
― Police, Academy (cryptosicko), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 20:00 (five years ago) link
it's pretty good. also I'm finally getting time to dig into Goths which for some reason I just hadn't gotten around to spending lots of time with.
― akm, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 20:15 (five years ago) link